Magic: Player Ranking What If

[Vae Victus]

Had a discussion with my father who's a massive Magic/Lakers fan the other day, and he's adamant that Magic coulda totally legit won 2 more chips leading the Lakers if he hadnt tested positive for HIV. Magic was still a MVP caliber candidate and the team was about to start a new renaissance with young bigs in Vlade and Elden Campbell ready to step up further, filling the void that Big Cap left behind. If Magic had won 1 more chip off of MJ, then Magic woulda been at 6 and MJ at 5 (yea yea i know he's cherry picking hardcore since MJ's retirement cost him 2 prime seasons too, so who knows if he woulda retired if Magic wasnt gone)

Now i know my dad is a huge Magic fanboi, but Magic's age 32-35 prime post prime career was still likely a MVP candidate impact player. I didnt really watch the Lakers seriously until around the mid 90s, so i dont really remember those post Magic years at all, but i did really remember Magic's short comeback. Looking at bball reference page, Magic was starting to develop a 3pt shot ala late career Jason Kidd, the years prior to his 1st retirement. A consistent 3pt shooting older Magic intrigues me and definitely woulda helped him open up his game, extending his prime a bit.

Thus two questions:

If hypothetically Magic never tested positive for HIV, were the Lakers good enough during that timespan with a prime Magic able to shoot 3s (say 4 attempts at 35%) to steal one or two from MJ? The team's starting core was still there in Magic, Worthy, Scott, Vlade, and Green all age 31 or less going forward. On paper they look like a 60ish win team perennial contender for at least 2 years, so saying that they get an extra chip or two isnt unreasonable, just need MJ (or Pip) to unluckily have a gimpy ankle in the playoffs, which is just enough of an edge for the Lakers to punch through.

If Magic did manage to nab one (or 2) chip off of MJ (who for the sake of ease of argument's career stays the same minus 1-2 chips), had 3-4 more prime/near prime seasons, and lets say 3 years of graceful decline, really padding his HOF resume, would Magic be considered consensus top 3 (MJ, Kareem, Magic) or even be outright considered better than MJ if he had 7 chips.

I kinda feel if Magic was still trucking along that MJ wouldnt have done any of his early retirements. Magic woulda been consensus top 2 with Kareem and MJ woulda needed to catch up chip wise, losing those 2 prime and 3 post prime seasons are out of the question if he wanted to catch up to this hypothetical Magic in everyone's player rankings.

[cupcakesnake]

I don't really see it. The West was getting stronger as the Jazz, Rockets, Blazers, Spurs, Suns, and Sonic all grew into contenders.

Even if the Lakers made another finals, they weren't a great matchup for a younger Bulls team on the rise. Every year Magic and Worth would be getting deeper into their 30s while Pippen and Grant entered their prime. The Bulls beat the Lakers 4-1 with a significant margin of victory. The Bulls were even better in 1992. By the time the Bulls let up a little in 93 (and then in 94 with MJ's retirement) were looking at mid-30s Magic Johnson. Probably still a really good player and the Lakers are probably still a big contender. But I don't see a reason to think the Lakers have strong likelihood to come out of the West any of those years and don't see why they'd beat the Bulls if they got there. The Knicks and Magic were also really good even if it wasn't the Bulls.

[Owly]

Is 2 more titles possible ... yes ...
Vlade, Green, Worthy, Scott, Magic, Perkins, Threatt ... that's a nice 7 man rotation otoh (at least on paper, though see a reservation below), Perkins can cover across the frontcourt, several guys can cover a few positions (which is useful as Magic needs to be covering bigger players at this point) ... Threatt is added to a finals team.

But
1) The Bulls are a major road block. They are a typically more dominant team than any LA went through. In this regard their best window might be 94-95 but now that core (including Magic) is older, declined and maybe gone and we don't know what the roster is.
2) The rest of the West got better (as noted by the prior poster). Now LA went through a competitive West in '91 and through the '89 Suns. But in general they were used to seeing very few 5+ (or 4+, I think) SRS teams on their way to the finals. Even if you are assuming they are still a top seed, with the competition mentioned it becomes far less of a given that they see the Conference Finals again. Not saying they won't but they'll likely have to go through at least one contenderish team to get there and 3 to win it all, and that makes titles a lot tougher and less probable than for most of the 80s in the West.
3) Age: Magic was aging quite gracefully. Box wise still within touching distance of his peak. Worthy on the other hand ... Maybe he was missing Magic, maybe it was injuries, maybe age, maybe all three. He's already slipping in '91 and it just gets worse. I don't think he's a good player in this 30s and Magic might paper over that, but probably not change it. They probably need to flip him and his contract for that rotation to keep looking strong.

So whilst it is ... possible ... I wouldn't think it very unlikely.

[shakes0]

Had a discussion with my father who's a massive Magic/Lakers fan the other day, and he's adamant that Magic coulda totally legit won 2 more chips leading the Lakers if he hadnt tested positive for HIV. .

Has your father heard of a guy named Michael Jordan?

[DQuinn1575]

The team was .500-ish the next 2 years, with a slightly negative SRS. Add Magic and they are probably in same category as 4 other teams in West in 92, and in the group for 2nd behind Phoenix. Magic was slightly declining, nothing major, but not getting better.
They might have made a Finals in 92/93, but they had gone 3 years without a title, and unless someone else significant joined, it would have been very unlikely to win again.
Also you realize that once Jordan won a single championship, he was pretty much acclaimed better than Magic & Bird, whose only argument was that despite his greatness, Jordan hadnt proved he could win.