Cavs made a huge mistake and traded the wrong big man

[Mr Loggins]

heh, Mobley is playing with three all stars and looks ok. I stand by my point the warriors recent lotterry picks look more “meh” than anything to get excited about.

Markannan has improved, but a) lets see him do it for more than 75% of one season. His track record would suggest this year is the outlier. b) when Utah starts trying to win games and defence becomes important, some of that shine will come off

That's an interesting take as Mitchell's hero ball and refusal to play defense were a big part of the jazz playoff failures.

Warriors are evidence of how a team can go from championship game to worst record in a season so picks sent far into the future is a bad gamble especially for a 4th seed team.

What happens with the picks and how much Clev improves will tell but so big overpay.

Would Clev be a 4th 5th seed without Mitchell

yes, but the warriors core is generally aging declining players - the opposite of cleveland’s core 4. Its a better gamble that youn guys won’t fall of a cliff

[Godymas]

Mobley is so much better than Markkanen and Allen works next to Mobley.

Markkanen was never going to become who he became today without leaving Cleveland.

I must say though, after Chicago he was one of the later guys to get a deal in FA. Most people had written him off and really didn't think he'd be a good player. He comes to Cleveland and he plays like an above average role player but no one really takes notice. To go from that to becoming a full star, it shows so many characteristics that are commendable about Lauri. A lot of perseverance, self belief, strive to overcome. Really happy he's in Utah actually, he will be their franchise guy for a few years.

[ShootersShoot]

That's an interesting take as Mitchell's hero ball and refusal to play defense were a big part of the jazz playoff failures.

Warriors are evidence of how a team can go from championship game to worst record in a season so picks sent far into the future is a bad gamble especially for a 4th seed team.

What happens with the picks and how much Clev improves will tell but so big overpay.

Would Clev be a 4th 5th seed without Mitchell

yes, but the warriors core is generally aging declining players - the opposite of cleveland’s core 4. Its a better gamble that youn guys won’t fall of a cliff

Well, the warriors also didnt anticipate having steph curry and klay thompson for a total of 5 games following the 2019 finals. Its a bit silly to compare that type of situation to the current cavs.

[Warriorfan]

Warriors are evidence of how a team can go from championship game to worst record in a season so picks sent far into the future is a bad gamble especially for a 4th seed team.

What happens with the picks and how much Clev improves will tell but so big overpay.

Would Clev be a 4th 5th seed without Mitchell

yes, but the warriors core is generally aging declining players - the opposite of cleveland’s core 4. Its a better gamble that youn guys won’t fall of a cliff

Well, the warriors also didnt anticipate having steph curry and klay thompson for a total of 5 games following the 2019 finals. Its a bit silly to compare that type of situation to the current cavs.

Falling off a cliff towards the championship
Picks for a small market team that hasn't drawn free agents outside LeBron era should always keep picks.

[Dan Z]

Mobley is so much better than Markkanen and Allen works next to Mobley.

Markkanen was never going to become who he became today without leaving Cleveland.

I must say though, after Chicago he was one of the later guys to get a deal in FA. Most people had written him off and really didn't think he'd be a good player. He comes to Cleveland and he plays like an above average role player but no one really takes notice. To go from that to becoming a full star, it shows so many characteristics that are commendable about Lauri. A lot of perseverance, self belief, strive to overcome. Really happy he's in Utah actually, he will be their franchise guy for a few years.

It's a shame that Markkanen didn't work out in Chicago. He's the best prospect they've had in a long time.

Unfortunately Chicago didn't utilize him properly, gave him advice that didn't work (from the coaching staff) and he dealt with injuries during his time there.

I'm not sure if Cleveland really knew how to properly use him, but they did a better job than Chicago.

He's a fun player to watch.

[BostonCouchGM]

Mobley is so much better than Markkanen and Allen works next to Mobley.

Markkanen was never going to become who he became today without leaving Cleveland.

I must say though, after Chicago he was one of the later guys to get a deal in FA. Most people had written him off and really didn't think he'd be a good player. He comes to Cleveland and he plays like an above average role player but no one really takes notice. To go from that to becoming a full star, it shows so many characteristics that are commendable about Lauri. A lot of perseverance, self belief, strive to overcome. Really happy he's in Utah actually, he will be their franchise guy for a few years.

Yet one of them is an all-star and might make all-nba and the other is Mobley. Weird that

Markkanen v Mobley (advanced stats)

PER- 22.3 vs 18
TS%- 64.3 vs 59.3
WS/48- 1.76 vs 1.51
VORP- 3.3 vs 2.4

Mobley cannot shoot. And while he's a good defender around the basket especially in help, he doesn't defend well in space. But he does have a higher ceiling. But will he hit it? His shooting is putrid and hasn't improved at all

[mcmurphy]

Mobley is so much better than Markkanen and Allen works next to Mobley.

Markkanen was never going to become who he became today without leaving Cleveland.

I must say though, after Chicago he was one of the later guys to get a deal in FA. Most people had written him off and really didn't think he'd be a good player. He comes to Cleveland and he plays like an above average role player but no one really takes notice. To go from that to becoming a full star, it shows so many characteristics that are commendable about Lauri. A lot of perseverance, self belief, strive to overcome. Really happy he's in Utah actually, he will be their franchise guy for a few years.

Yet one of them is an all-star and might make all-nba and the other is Mobley. Weird that

Markkanen v Mobley (advanced stats)

PER- 22.3 vs 18
TS%- 64.3 vs 59.3
WS/48- 1.76 vs 1.51
VORP- 3.3 vs 2.4

Mobley cannot shoot. And while he's a good defender around the basket especially in help, he doesn't defend well in space. But he does have a higher ceiling. But will he hit it? His shooting is putrid and hasn't improved at all

... and Lauri it's not so poor in defense... on the contrary

[Godymas]

Mobley is so much better than Markkanen and Allen works next to Mobley.

Markkanen was never going to become who he became today without leaving Cleveland.

I must say though, after Chicago he was one of the later guys to get a deal in FA. Most people had written him off and really didn't think he'd be a good player. He comes to Cleveland and he plays like an above average role player but no one really takes notice. To go from that to becoming a full star, it shows so many characteristics that are commendable about Lauri. A lot of perseverance, self belief, strive to overcome. Really happy he's in Utah actually, he will be their franchise guy for a few years.

Yet one of them is an all-star and might make all-nba and the other is Mobley. Weird that

Markkanen v Mobley (advanced stats)

PER- 22.3 vs 18
TS%- 64.3 vs 59.3
WS/48- 1.76 vs 1.51
VORP- 3.3 vs 2.4

Mobley cannot shoot. And while he's a good defender around the basket especially in help, he doesn't defend well in space. But he does have a higher ceiling. But will he hit it? His shooting is putrid and hasn't improved at all

compare Evan Mobley's stats at year 6 to Lauri's current year 6

The fact that Mobley is only on year 2 and is already that close says a ton

then you look at what Lauri was in year 2

Markkanen vs. Mobley (year 2)

PER- 17.1 vs. 18
TS%- 55.3 vs 59.3
WS/48- .078 vs. 1.51
VORP- .7 vs 2.4

your comparison looks incredibly invalid

[mcmurphy]

Mobley is so much better than Markkanen and Allen works next to Mobley.

Markkanen was never going to become who he became today without leaving Cleveland.

I must say though, after Chicago he was one of the later guys to get a deal in FA. Most people had written him off and really didn't think he'd be a good player. He comes to Cleveland and he plays like an above average role player but no one really takes notice. To go from that to becoming a full star, it shows so many characteristics that are commendable about Lauri. A lot of perseverance, self belief, strive to overcome. Really happy he's in Utah actually, he will be their franchise guy for a few years.

Yet one of them is an all-star and might make all-nba and the other is Mobley. Weird that

Markkanen v Mobley (advanced stats)

PER- 22.3 vs 18
TS%- 64.3 vs 59.3
WS/48- 1.76 vs 1.51
VORP- 3.3 vs 2.4

Mobley cannot shoot. And while he's a good defender around the basket especially in help, he doesn't defend well in space. But he does have a higher ceiling. But will he hit it? His shooting is putrid and hasn't improved at all

compare Evan Mobley's stats at year 6 to Lauri's current year 6

The fact that Mobley is only on year 2 and is already that close says a ton

then you look at what Lauri was in year 2

Markkanen vs. Mobley (year 2)

PER- 17.1 vs. 18
TS%- 55.3 vs 59.3
WS/48- .078 vs. 1.51
VORP- .7 vs 2.4

your comparison looks incredibly invalid

ehhhh, but you said:

Mobley is so much better than Markkanen

then you had to say:
Mobley is so much better than Chicago's Markkanen... not the actual Markkanen

[Godymas]

Yet one of them is an all-star and might make all-nba and the other is Mobley. Weird that

Markkanen v Mobley (advanced stats)

PER- 22.3 vs 18
TS%- 64.3 vs 59.3
WS/48- 1.76 vs 1.51
VORP- 3.3 vs 2.4

Mobley cannot shoot. And while he's a good defender around the basket especially in help, he doesn't defend well in space. But he does have a higher ceiling. But will he hit it? His shooting is putrid and hasn't improved at all

compare Evan Mobley's stats at year 6 to Lauri's current year 6

The fact that Mobley is only on year 2 and is already that close says a ton

then you look at what Lauri was in year 2

Markkanen vs. Mobley (year 2)

PER- 17.1 vs. 18
TS%- 55.3 vs 59.3
WS/48- .078 vs. 1.51
VORP- .7 vs 2.4

your comparison looks incredibly invalid

ehhhh, but you said:

Mobley is so much better than Markkanen

then you had to say:
Mobley is so much better than Chicago's Markkanen... not the actual Markkanen

funny because your logic should apply to your own argument then

"Lauri Markkanen in year 6 is a better player today than Evan Mobley in year 2"

[Mr Loggins]

yes, but the warriors core is generally aging declining players - the opposite of cleveland’s core 4. Its a better gamble that youn guys won’t fall of a cliff

Well, the warriors also didnt anticipate having steph curry and klay thompson for a total of 5 games following the 2019 finals. Its a bit silly to compare that type of situation to the current cavs.

Falling off a cliff towards the championship
Picks for a small market team that hasn't drawn free agents outside LeBron era should always keep picks.

I see…so because the cavs are a small market and havent historically attracted big time free agents, they should keep three picks that are likely to be late fiest round rather than trade them for a 26 year old top-15 player who is under a long term contract?

haha, makes perfect sense to me

[TheLand13]

yes, but the warriors core is generally aging declining players - the opposite of cleveland’s core 4. Its a better gamble that youn guys won’t fall of a cliff

Well, the warriors also didnt anticipate having steph curry and klay thompson for a total of 5 games following the 2019 finals. Its a bit silly to compare that type of situation to the current cavs.

Falling off a cliff towards the championship
Picks for a small market team that hasn't drawn free agents outside LeBron era should always keep picks.

It's still not comparable and you know it. Not to mention, not all small market teams are created equal. We've seen quality FA's in the past join small market teams that have the potential to be in the playoff hunt for years to come. The Cavaliers are already well past that and can be (and should be) considered contenders to win their own conference. At that point the team becomes more attractive.

Teams are built off of going big or going home. At this point with how well Mitchell has played, it's silly to try to suggest that this trade was still a mistake. While I wish we could still have Lauri and while Ochai has turned out better than I anticipated, this is still an ideal situation for Cleveland to be in.

[Warriorfan]

Well, the warriors also didnt anticipate having steph curry and klay thompson for a total of 5 games following the 2019 finals. Its a bit silly to compare that type of situation to the current cavs.

Falling off a cliff towards the championship
Picks for a small market team that hasn't drawn free agents outside LeBron era should always keep picks.

I see…so because the cavs are a small market and havent historically attracted big time free agents, they should keep three picks that are likely to be late fiest round rather than trade them for a 26 year old top-15 player who is under a long term contract?

haha, makes perfect sense to me

..

Facts it's younger all star big. Young 6th man scorer and picks. Keep in mind Mitchell who never has been an MVP type averages 15 missed games a season.

Is 4th seed a contender

How many of those multi pick deals worked out long term.

Lakers and Mil were adding to an MVP 1 title each.

[TheLand13]

Falling off a cliff towards the championship
Picks for a small market team that hasn't drawn free agents outside LeBron era should always keep picks.

I see…so because the cavs are a small market and havent historically attracted big time free agents, they should keep three picks that are likely to be late fiest round rather than trade them for a 26 year old top-15 player who is under a long term contract?

haha, makes perfect sense to me

..

Facts it's younger all star big. Young 6th man scorer and picks. Keep in mind Mitchell who never has been an MVP type averages 15 missed games a season.

Is 4th seed a contender

How many of those multi pick deals worked out long term.

Lakers and Mil were adding to an MVP 1 title each.

You're not making much sense here at all. Garland and Mobley both have superstar potential and neither of them are 23 years old yet. The fact that Cleveland is the fourth seed right now is insane.

And yes, a fourth seed is absolutely a contender, especially when they're the best defensive team in the league.

[Mr Loggins]

Falling off a cliff towards the championship
Picks for a small market team that hasn't drawn free agents outside LeBron era should always keep picks.

I see…so because the cavs are a small market and havent historically attracted big time free agents, they should keep three picks that are likely to be late fiest round rather than trade them for a 26 year old top-15 player who is under a long term contract?

haha, makes perfect sense to me

..

Facts it's younger all star big. Young 6th man scorer and picks. Keep in mind Mitchell who never has been an MVP type averages 15 missed games a season.

Is 4th seed a contender

How many of those multi pick deals worked out long term.

Lakers and Mil were adding to an MVP 1 title each.

Well, the fact that you keep changing your argument suggests that your position is not a strong one.

But I’ll play along

- Markannan has missed many more games over his career compared to Mitchell. Sexton is pretty durable save for the season he missed (though meniscus tears can predispose to early arthritis).

- beyond that, numbers on a bad/mediocre team often don’t matter. I’ll wait to see what Lauri and Sexton can do on a good team.

- I think most people recognize this 4th seed on lace for 53 wins is just the start. Many feel that players ages 21, 23, 25 & 26 will continue to improve. I guess you feel they have peaked and should only decline from there

[jazzfan1971]

Cavs can have Lauri back for Mobley if they would like. I'm fine giving them a do over

[flow]

heh, Mobley is playing with three all stars and looks ok. I stand by my point the warriors recent lotterry picks look more “meh” than anything to get excited about.

Markannan has improved, but a) lets see him do it for more than 75% of one season. His track record would suggest this year is the outlier. b) when Utah starts trying to win games and defence becomes important, some of that shine will come off

That's an interesting take as Mitchell's hero ball and refusal to play defense were a big part of the jazz playoff failures.

Warriors are evidence of how a team can go from championship game to worst record in a season so picks sent far into the future is a bad gamble especially for a 4th seed team.

What happens with the picks and how much Clev improves will tell but so big overpay.

Would Clev be a 4th 5th seed without Mitchell

Most likely, yes. They may have a couple more wins than they would have without the trade, but that's it.

[TheLand13]

That's an interesting take as Mitchell's hero ball and refusal to play defense were a big part of the jazz playoff failures.

Warriors are evidence of how a team can go from championship game to worst record in a season so picks sent far into the future is a bad gamble especially for a 4th seed team.

What happens with the picks and how much Clev improves will tell but so big overpay.

Would Clev be a 4th 5th seed without Mitchell

Most likely, yes. They may have a couple more wins than they would have without the trade, but that's it.

You're actually suggesting Cleveland would have a couple more wins without doing the Mitchell trade?

How do you figure that?

There are at least five or so wins that Mitchell himself is directly responsible for. Without him Cleveland does not win those games as these were games that either Garland or Allen were missing, sometimes both. You can't convince me Cleveland comes out in those scenarios without him. And that isn't even counting the games where everyone does play where Mitchell still dominated.

I'm willing to concede that Cleveland actually looks better offensively when Mitchell sits and Garland is able to just run the offense on his own, but let's look at this from a different point of view as well. One of Cleveland's biggest problems is that they're failing to properly close out games. Mitchell has been the lone bright spot in that regard, not only doing a much better job closing out games than most, but as mentioned before, he has been directly responsible for getting us victories on his own.

[flow]

Warriors are evidence of how a team can go from championship game to worst record in a season so picks sent far into the future is a bad gamble especially for a 4th seed team.

What happens with the picks and how much Clev improves will tell but so big overpay.

Would Clev be a 4th 5th seed without Mitchell

Most likely, yes. They may have a couple more wins than they would have without the trade, but that's it.

You're actually suggesting Cleveland would have a couple more wins without doing the Mitchell trade?

How do you figure that?

There are at least five or so wins that Mitchell himself is directly responsible for. Without him Cleveland does not win those games as these were games that either Garland or Allen were missing, sometimes both. You can't convince me Cleveland comes out in those scenarios without him. And that isn't even counting the games where everyone does play where Mitchell still dominated.

I'm willing to concede that Cleveland actually looks better offensively when Mitchell sits and Garland is able to just run the offense on his own, but let's look at this from a different point of view as well. One of Cleveland's biggest problems is that they're failing to properly close out games. Mitchell has been the lone bright spot in that regard, not only doing a much better job closing out games than most, but as mentioned before, he has been directly responsible for getting us victories on his own.

No, that's not what said.

.

[TheLand13]

Most likely, yes. They may have a couple more wins than they would have without the trade, but that's it.

You're actually suggesting Cleveland would have a couple more wins without doing the Mitchell trade?

How do you figure that?

There are at least five or so wins that Mitchell himself is directly responsible for. Without him Cleveland does not win those games as these were games that either Garland or Allen were missing, sometimes both. You can't convince me Cleveland comes out in those scenarios without him. And that isn't even counting the games where everyone does play where Mitchell still dominated.

I'm willing to concede that Cleveland actually looks better offensively when Mitchell sits and Garland is able to just run the offense on his own, but let's look at this from a different point of view as well. One of Cleveland's biggest problems is that they're failing to properly close out games. Mitchell has been the lone bright spot in that regard, not only doing a much better job closing out games than most, but as mentioned before, he has been directly responsible for getting us victories on his own.

No, that's not what said.

.

Then what are you saying?