2023 NBA Draft (tonight's discussion on pg 58)

[Roddy B for 3]

Would Portland be interested in something around Simmons for Randle or would Simmons for Wendal Carter Jr. be something more preferred here?

Nurkic
Randle
Grant
Sharpe
Lillard

Could be pretty sick

[BlazersBroncos]

Simons has played starter minutes (and started) in 92 games over 2 seasons while last year missing Dame. His overall improvement is strong

I dont understand this. Simons improved in no measurable category this season. He was still a defensive turnstile, still avoided contact, still had issues with simply passing the ball into the post, still posted putrid FTA rates, etc.

I am not trying to knock the person. Simons is a great kid. But his game is more or less the same it was coming out - he can shoot and hit a ton of 3PT shots and has a few other above average scoring tools. But that is literally it. He isnt a well rounded player, is miles away from being a PG and is a poor fit with both Dame and Sharpe.

Maybe if we had 2 ballhandling Forwards to alleviate his piss poor creation abilities he could work - but we dont. Its why I personally see him as such a good fit in Orlando. Franz and Paolo are really good ballhandlers for their size and above average passers. Simons would fit well in a hybrid offense where those guys take turns initiating. But even then, I think he is more of a bench scorer than a starter in nearly any situation.

Time will tell. I certainly wouldnt bet on Simons becoming a competent PG. Few players after 5 years suddenly show transformative skills in the way it would take for Ant to go from current Ant to 'team running Ant'.

[DusterBuster]

Would Portland be interested in something around Simmons for Randle or would Simmons for Wendal Carter Jr. be something more preferred here?

Nurkic
Randle
Grant
Sharpe
Lillard

Could be pretty sick

Why would the Knicks do Simons for Randle?

[Jsun947]

Simons has played starter minutes (and started) in 92 games over 2 seasons while last year missing Dame. His overall improvement is strong

I dont understand this. Simons improved in no measurable category this season. He was still a defensive turnstile, still avoided contact, still had issues with simply passing the ball into the post, still posted putrid FTA rates, etc.

I am not trying to knock the person. Simons is a great kid. But his game is more or less the same it was coming out - he can shoot and hit a ton of 3PT shots and has a few other above average scoring tools. But that is literally it. He isnt a well rounded player, is miles away from being a PG and is a poor fit with both Dame and Sharpe.

Maybe if we had 2 ballhandling Forwards to alleviate his piss poor creation abilities he could work - but we dont. Its why I personally see him as such a good fit in Orlando. Franz and Paolo are really good ballhandlers for their size and above average passers. Simons would fit well in a hybrid offense where those guys take turns initiating. But even then, I think he is more of a bench scorer than a starter in nearly any situation.

Time will tell. I certainly wouldnt bet on Simons becoming a competent PG. Few players after 5 years suddenly show transformative skills in the way it would take for Ant to go from current Ant to 'team running Ant'.

Simons would be a perfect fit in Orlando. His game reminds me a lot of someone like Jamal Crawford. He has handles and can get his own shot but if doesn’t translate to running an offense full time.

Depending on what happens in the lottery and draft, and what direction our team goes in I wonder if there’s a deal to be made around Carter Jr or their draft pick.

[GEE]

I just don't understand people desire to trade Simons unneccesarilly. It seems to me that having Dame and Simons, two 50/40/90 guys will create nightmares for opposing teams, and having both Sharpe and Thybulle to split the two as much as possible, should be doable. Sharpe just needs to beat out Simons for the starting SG position, regardless of who gets paid what. It's this simple! Chauncey and Cronin just need to figure out the right style of play, along with the right player combinations and rotations.

The problem we have is NURKIC, and (God love him) Winslow. Otherwise, I beleive our issue is most of playing style and rotations going forward, not players. Starting Center is our weakness / Love Eubanks as a long term B/U. A healthy and prime Winslow would be ideal for the starting 4 IMO, with Watford backing him up. We'll just see if that happens or not. Walker is also a player to watch going forward... he seems to be developing into a Looney type of Center.

So a core of this hopefully for next year ain't bad:
Dame / Simons / Keon
Sharpe / Thybulle
Grant / Little / Reddish
Winslow / Watford / Knox
??? / Eubanks / Walker

Question for me hinders on how to solve for ???. It just seems like the smart and easy way to go, is to package Nurkic with as many picks as it takes to get ???. Hopefully the "Big Move" is this:

Our FRP + NYK pick + Nurkic + 5 2nd rounders (if needed) + a future FRP (if needed) ==== ???

[GEE]

...or the NBA Gods can just gift us the #1 pick. That works too.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

It wasn't the greatest year for Simons but he maintained his volume and efficiency while adapting to the role of second fiddle. I guess you could see it as kind of a statistically stagnant year but learning to keep contributing consistently without the ball in your hands all the time is important for the team game.

I mean we all know he has his flaws, he is a score first guard who doesnt play good defense. There's just a cap on how limited that type of player can be, especially as a second fiddle. It's a fit issue that has about a decade of recent history going against it. But Simons also has the most valuable skillset in the NBA, the ability to just go out there and repeatedly put the ball in the hoop. And he is young, athletic, has range and is better than CJ in the PG role. It would be silly to sell that out for a mediocre role player like WCJ. I mean how poorly does he compare to a 23 year old Dame really? His weaknesses are the things that will get improved with time and experience, not saying he will ever be an elite Dame like player but very few players his age can score like he does.

[Jsun947]

If Dame wants out, and we draft Scoot, I’d look at moving Simons if a deal makes sense

If Dame stays, I’d look at moving Simons for an upgrade at SF or C.

There’s a 90% neither happens and we just keep Simons which isn’t the worst thing in the world.

[tester551]

Yes. Simons/Sharpe is the backcourt of the future, with or without Dame.

Simons is a volume shooting SG who couldnt lead a team to the locker room. Sharpe is a old school SG who lacks handle and vision, if we want him to reach his potential he needs a true PG next to him, not a glorified Malik Monk.

There are tons of players that can put up 21ppg in 35mpg w/ a .54% EGF while not providing much elsewhere. We should move Simons while he still has the allure of youth. He is the same guy he always has been, a shooter that doesnt provide much else. Not FT, not defense, not creating for others.

He has never posted a WS in the .100 range, a big indicator of a quality starter. His DBPM the past 2 years has been abysmal bad in the -2.7 and -2.4 range.

He isnt Nolan Smith, guy is a NBA player, but he is by no means a cornerstone or anyone you want to build around.

Spot on!
Just because certain players score a bunch doesn't mean that they are good.

[Goldbum]

If we don't get top 3 than I think it's Walker and it's not close. Walker is a fantastic book end next to Grant. They way they compliment each other is borderline IDEAL.
If we end up top 3 things get REAL interesting.
I would think we keep Miller or Wemby but Scoot necessitates a trade (Probably 2).
Personally I would keep him and go full rebuild moving both Ant and Dame (don't mind keeping Ant as PGOTF... but if that's Scoot then you either play Ant as 6th man or move off him). This feels like it could be the end of an era, but starting that next chapter with a Scoot/Sharpe backcourt would be a dream. The question becomes what other pieces of that team you can assemble using Dame/Nurkic/Simons/Grant(S&T). I think Scoot send this roster into a full tare down, but IDK if that's good or bad (definitely sad).

[PDXKnight]

I almost think the shaedon surgance makes it more likely we keep dame. A dame and shaedon back court may actually be a playoff back court unlike dame and anf. Sharpe has the size to develop into a capable defender making him an ideal 2 moving forward. But hopefully starting next season he will not play out of position ever again

[BlazersBroncos]

Ya. Sharpe has shown enough in the tank that I am not trading him outside a Embiid type return. Kid is too young and too talented.

Mortgage everything else to get a #2 option if possible or trade Dame. Don’t care really but Sharpe is here to stay either way.

[Goldbum]

What's your big board like?
With our lotto pick I have
1 Wemby
2 Miller
3Scoot
4 Walker
5-6 Thompson twins
7 Hendricks
8 Trade the pick

Knicks pick
1 trade to CHI
2 GG jackson
3 Khris Murray
4 Lively
5 Clowney
6 Bona
7 Nnaji

2nd Round
1 trade for future seconds
2 Filipowski
3 Gueye
3 Sanogo
4 Ighodaro
5 Tubelis
6 Edey

Curious who you all like. Obviously I put size as our top priority and tried to match traits with needs. Some of these guys will be gone when we pick but that's my order of preference with each selection (if someone I like in the tier ahead is available in the next tier down I would have them at number 1 on that tier).
Getting 3 of these players would really make a difference in the win column in my opinion.
Tboughts?

[GEE]

I almost think the shaedon surgance makes it more likely we keep dame. A dame and shaedon back court may actually be a playoff back court unlike dame and anf. Sharpe has the size to develop into a capable defender making him an ideal 2 moving forward. But hopefully starting next season he will not play out of position ever again

Sharpe blowing up might solve most of our problems. He needs to simply bump Simons and become the starting 2 going into next year. Simons is our PGOTF, but for now Dame continues to start and all of the PG and SG minutes will be split between the 3 players. Simple. Grant starting at 3 with Thybulle backing up the SG/SF. Sharpe getting a handful of minutes at the SF, Grant with a handful at PF. A prime Winslow(I hope) with Watford makes me feel all cozy and warm at the PF...

I want Cronin to fix the Center position using every pick available over the next 3 years if needed. If he can do that, I see us as having a future Big 3, plus Dame. This is why I've been so geeked over trying to get Mark Williams from the Hornets. How many picks might it take to snatch him up? Is there a similar player anyone here can think of that's similar or better? This is what I hope gets done with our draft picks.

I have to believe this is the direction Cronin is taking us: Rebuilding with Dame, if he wants to stay.... or Rebuilding without him, if he wants to chase one. No need for a "tear down"... We just need to cash in assets for a C for the future. If done, We are built for now and the future.

[Brandon-Clyde]

I almost think the shaedon surgance makes it more likely we keep dame. A dame and shaedon back court may actually be a playoff back court unlike dame and anf. Sharpe has the size to develop into a capable defender making him an ideal 2 moving forward. But hopefully starting next season he will not play out of position ever again

Sharpe blowing up might solve most of our problems. He needs to simply bump Simons and become the starting 2 going into next year. Simons is our PGOTF, but for now Dame continues to start and all of the PG and SG minutes will be split between the 3 players. Simple. Grant starting at 3 with Thybulle backing up the SG/SF. Sharpe getting a handful of minutes at the SF, Grant with a handful at PF. A prime Winslow(I hope) with Watford makes me feel all cozy and warm at the PF...

I want Cronin to fix the Center position using every pick available over the next 3 years if needed. If he can do that, I see us as having a future Big 3, plus Dame. This is why I've been so geeked over trying to get Mark Williams from the Hornets. How many picks might it take to snatch him up? Is there a similar player anyone here can think of that's similar or better? This is what I hope gets done with our draft picks.

I have to believe this is the direction Cronin is taking us: Rebuilding with Dame, if he wants to stay.... or Rebuilding without him, if he wants to chase one. No need for a "tear down"... We just need to cash in assets for a C for the future. If done, We are built for now and the future.

Winslow when he plays is a very nice complementary player who does most of the little stuff this team needs without demanding the ball much. But the problem with Winslow is the same one that has plagued his entire career and that is injuries. I just can't believe that the team should rely on him as more than a backup. Barring getting Wembanyama I would focus on big men who can defend and rebound. I would like to draft at least one player 6'10 or taller that can play both pf and center. Btw even if we get lucky and get Wembanyama I would strongly consider keeping Nurkic for depth and play an occasional twin tower lineup.

[Goldbum]

Just watched a few Ibou Badji break downs and a lot of evaluations had him as a 1st round guy. Draft Junkies thinks he should have gone late lottery. I wish he could have been healthy for this development phase.

[BlazersBroncos]

Just watched a few Ibou Badji break downs and a lot of evaluations had him as a 1st round guy. Draft Junkies thinks he should have gone late lottery. I wish he could have been healthy for this development phase.

Same here. He was posting some really nice numbers in the G-League before his injury (2.43bpg in 17mpg - would have been 3rd in the league if he wasnt injured). We need athleticism and size at C so a guy that plays above the rim on rolls and can block shots would be huge. I like him alot from back in the days of couch scouting for the draft.

Seems like he has the natural tools but his feel never developed, and thats why he went from a guy that was talked as a lotto pick when he was really young to falling out of the draft.

[JasonStern]

Still pissed that Olshey traded ten years worth of 2nd round picks instead of drafting Sabrina Ionesco.

[The Sebastian Express]

I took a nap and had a nightmare that somehow the Nuggets got two lottery picks and ended up landing number one and three. I was so pissed.

[JRoy]

I have to be honest; if POR ends up getting the first pick and this kid turns into another Oden level bust that will probably end my interest in the nba.