2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[Psubs]

Clingan has insane metrics but I think he stays for another year unless he gets a promise in the first

Jordan Hawkins will leave and maybe his team is not as good next season? With a promise of course he should go.

[Psubs]

Taylor Hendricks at 18?

Also, Kel’el Ware is going back to school.

That's weird that they don't believe in him. I think he should be top 10 easy.

Tankathon has the Raptors taking Cason Wallace at #14.

Cason or Hendricks and I'm happy. Would like to sign and trade someone for another 1st to get Sidy Cissoko.

I think in the worst case scenario you get a Morris twins style production from Hendricks, with the best case scenario being prime Isaac.

Talkathon needs to update that lol there’s no way Cason is available at 14 even though it would be nice

I think more like Harrison Barnes with shot-blocking, regarding Hendricks.

[ArthurVandelay]

Shams reporting Dallas looking at shutting down Kyrie and Luka.

No pick for NY. One Year.

[dozo]

Read on Twitter

I was trying find this tweet yesterday. Clingan stats are similar to Steven Adams freshman year w/less playing PT. Adams was 1 and done and selected 12th overall.

Teams that should take Clingan:
#23 Portland
#28 Charlotte
#29 Indiana

Perhaps a reach would be:
#17 LA Lakers
#18 Houston

Is he really that good? I never cared to watch his game not being a big name freshman.

-7'2 mobile big. (Runs the floor)
-His shooting form is good.
-Good finisher off two feet. (He gets up quick after the catch and gather)
-As freshman he earned minutes on a top 20 team.

Its in our best interest as raptors fans if Clingan is selected in the lottery. Imho Clingan has more potential than Jordan Hawkins.

[Dalek]

I have to say I am really late to Noah Clowney because he isn't usually mocked that high, but he is super intriguing with his physical tools.

8 BPM as an 18 year-old freshman who was only a 4 star recruit
6'10 with a massive 7'2 wingspan and is a springy 210 lbs.
Above average rebounder 21 REB% ; averaged 10 PPG and 8 REB in 25 mins
Not a great freethrow shooter, but his 43.9 FTR is star level

Paint protector in college 3.5 BLK% 4.5 DBPM, but watching his film he has great footspeed enough to keep up with guards

Read on Twitter

28% from three, but had 34 made threes on good volume, and can attack any close out with a decent straight line drive.

So you have a potential stretch big who can defend - so what? Well, looking at his games, he seems to be a big time competitor in quality match-ups:

25/18 versus Arkansas
23/11 versus Auburn
16/9 versus Houston

The Houston game stands out because you see him play against Jarace Walker and not give up an inch in the match-up. He had a couple times where he got caught on travels, but he was still being super aggressive. I just like to see guys with his motor.

Watch on YouTube

I mean players like Walker and Hendricks rate lotto, but this guy can't be that far behind especially being on 18 on draft day. His freethrow shooting and 3P% has got to increase, but looking at his form, I don't see any major issues on his release and overall he has really nice touch with the ball.

To me, at worst you get a Nic Claxton type drafting Clowney. I do see him developing into a potential small forward but he will need a couple years to max out his development. By age 20/21, we might have a scary player.

[DreamTeam09]

Shams reporting Dallas looking at shutting down Kyrie and Luka.

No pick for NY. One Year.

As a mavs fan that would be cool if they could keep their pick. They need a big or big wing in the worst way. Or package it to get off the contracts of Bertans & THJ

[ArthurVandelay]

Shams reporting Dallas looking at shutting down Kyrie and Luka.

No pick for NY. One Year.

As a mavs fan that would be cool if they could keep their pick. They need a big or big wing in the worst way. Or package it to get off the contracts of Bertans & THJ

As a Raptor fan, I just like to see things not work out for the Knicks lol

[Dalek]

Shams reporting Dallas looking at shutting down Kyrie and Luka.

No pick for NY. One Year.

Chicago could pass Toronto given they play Hawks/Bucks/Mavs/Pistons. Not great for the play-in rank, but good for the lotto pool.

[Dalek]

This is a really good mix of Clowney. He has some nice bounce and just looks super aggressive even in traffic:

Read on Twitter

[BoyzNTheHood]

I have to say I am really late to Noah Clowney because he isn't usually mocked that high, but he is super intriguing with his physical tools.

8 BPM as an 18 year-old freshman who was only a 4 star recruit
6'10 with a massive 7'2 wingspan and is a springy 210 lbs.
Above average rebounder 21 REB% ; averaged 10 PPG and 8 REB in 25 mins
Not a great freethrow shooter, but his 43.9 FTR is star level

Paint protector in college 3.5 BLK% 4.5 DBPM, but watching his film he has great footspeed enough to keep up with guards

Read on Twitter

28% from three, but had 34 made threes on good volume, and can attack any close out with a decent straight line drive.

So you have a potential stretch big who can defend - so what? Well, looking at his games, he seems to be a big time competitor in quality match-ups:

25/18 versus Arkansas
23/11 versus Auburn
16/9 versus Houston

The Houston game stands out because you see him play against Jarace Walker and not give up an inch in the match-up. He had a couple times where he got caught on travels, but he was still being super aggressive. I just like to see guys with his motor.

Watch on YouTube

I mean players like Walker and Hendricks rate lotto, but this guy can't be that far behind especially being on 18 on draft day. His freethrow shooting and 3P% has got to increase, but looking at his form, I don't see any major issues on his release and overall he has really nice touch with the ball.

To me, at worst you get a Nic Claxton type drafting Clowney. I do see him developing into a potential small forward but he will need a couple years to max out his development. By age 20/21, we might have a scary player.

I agree that he’s a similar style of player to Hendricks and Jarace. Although, Jarace is a cut above the other two, and Hendricks seems like a better version of Clowney. These types of players are the prototype for the future outside of the unicorns like Wemby and Porzingis.

I can see Noah Clowney developing past both Jarace and Hendricks though because athletics are in his genes. His cousin is Jadaveon Clowney who was a bit of a unicorn himself in the NCAA and was the #1 pick because of it.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Gradey Dick processes things so quickly and plays so assertively I think the dropoff between him and a guy like Hawkins is tremendous. Completely different class of prospect and yet some only have them being separated by a few picks.

[Dalek]

I agree that he’s a similar style of player to Hendricks and Jarace. Although, Jarace is a cut above the other two, and Hendricks seems like a better version of Clowney. These types of players are the prototype for the future outside of the unicorns like Wemby and Porzingis.

I can see Noah Clowney developing past both Jarace and Hendricks though because athletics are in his genes. His cousin is Jadaveon Clowney who was a bit of a unicorn himself in the NCAA and was the #1 pick because of it.

Good info on Clowney. I did not know about his cousin, but I do see Clowney as a NBA level athlete.

I do agree with you about Jarace and Hendricks being higher. Jarace is such a good passer at his size and his physicality is tough to quantify. I just like that Clowney 16/11 and Jarace had 8/5 in their match-up, including a putback by Clowney to help seal it.

Hendricks has shown legit shooting range so he is of course higher, but I am curious how those two would match-up. Very similar types of players, but to me Hendricks had quite a bit weaker opponents given that he played for a NIT team. He still made his shots and blocked a ton.

I am curious about Clowney's numbers if he didn't have Charles Bediako beside him.

[DreamTeam09]

I have to say I am really late to Noah Clowney because he isn't usually mocked that high, but he is super intriguing with his physical tools.

8 BPM as an 18 year-old freshman who was only a 4 star recruit
6'10 with a massive 7'2 wingspan and is a springy 210 lbs.
Above average rebounder 21 REB% ; averaged 10 PPG and 8 REB in 25 mins
Not a great freethrow shooter, but his 43.9 FTR is star level

Paint protector in college 3.5 BLK% 4.5 DBPM, but watching his film he has great footspeed enough to keep up with guards

Read on Twitter

28% from three, but had 34 made threes on good volume, and can attack any close out with a decent straight line drive.

So you have a potential stretch big who can defend - so what? Well, looking at his games, he seems to be a big time competitor in quality match-ups:

25/18 versus Arkansas
23/11 versus Auburn
16/9 versus Houston

The Houston game stands out because you see him play against Jarace Walker and not give up an inch in the match-up. He had a couple times where he got caught on travels, but he was still being super aggressive. I just like to see guys with his motor.

Watch on YouTube

I mean players like Walker and Hendricks rate lotto, but this guy can't be that far behind especially being on 18 on draft day. His freethrow shooting and 3P% has got to increase, but looking at his form, I don't see any major issues on his release and overall he has really nice touch with the ball.

To me, at worst you get a Nic Claxton type drafting Clowney. I do see him developing into a potential small forward but he will need a couple years to max out his development. By age 20/21, we might have a scary player.

I agree that he’s a similar style of player to Hendricks and Jarace. Although, Jarace is a cut above the other two, and Hendricks seems like a better version of Clowney. These types of players are the prototype for the future outside of the unicorns like Wemby and Porzingis.

I can see Noah Clowney developing past both Jarace and Hendricks though because athletics are in his genes. His cousin is Jadaveon Clowney who was a bit of a unicorn himself in the NCAA and was the #1 pick because of it.

Is this guy more of a Kuminga Issac J.Grant type of SF/PF or is me more of a Precious/Boucher PF/SF... If he's more wing than big then I am intrigued. If he's a big small ball 5 then I'm not really interested

[BoyzNTheHood]

I have to say I am really late to Noah Clowney because he isn't usually mocked that high, but he is super intriguing with his physical tools.

8 BPM as an 18 year-old freshman who was only a 4 star recruit
6'10 with a massive 7'2 wingspan and is a springy 210 lbs.
Above average rebounder 21 REB% ; averaged 10 PPG and 8 REB in 25 mins
Not a great freethrow shooter, but his 43.9 FTR is star level

Paint protector in college 3.5 BLK% 4.5 DBPM, but watching his film he has great footspeed enough to keep up with guards

Read on Twitter

28% from three, but had 34 made threes on good volume, and can attack any close out with a decent straight line drive.

So you have a potential stretch big who can defend - so what? Well, looking at his games, he seems to be a big time competitor in quality match-ups:

25/18 versus Arkansas
23/11 versus Auburn
16/9 versus Houston

The Houston game stands out because you see him play against Jarace Walker and not give up an inch in the match-up. He had a couple times where he got caught on travels, but he was still being super aggressive. I just like to see guys with his motor.

Watch on YouTube

I mean players like Walker and Hendricks rate lotto, but this guy can't be that far behind especially being on 18 on draft day. His freethrow shooting and 3P% has got to increase, but looking at his form, I don't see any major issues on his release and overall he has really nice touch with the ball.

To me, at worst you get a Nic Claxton type drafting Clowney. I do see him developing into a potential small forward but he will need a couple years to max out his development. By age 20/21, we might have a scary player.

I agree that he’s a similar style of player to Hendricks and Jarace. Although, Jarace is a cut above the other two, and Hendricks seems like a better version of Clowney. These types of players are the prototype for the future outside of the unicorns like Wemby and Porzingis.

I can see Noah Clowney developing past both Jarace and Hendricks though because athletics are in his genes. His cousin is Jadaveon Clowney who was a bit of a unicorn himself in the NCAA and was the #1 pick because of it.

Is this guy more of a Kuminga Issac J.Grant type of SF/PF or is me more of a Precious/Boucher PF/SF... If he's more wing than big then I am intrigued. If he's a big small ball 5 then I'm not really interested

I’d lean more towards a big than a wing. He’s not really shifty like a wing should be

[Psubs]

I have to say I am really late to Noah Clowney because he isn't usually mocked that high, but he is super intriguing with his physical tools.

8 BPM as an 18 year-old freshman who was only a 4 star recruit
6'10 with a massive 7'2 wingspan and is a springy 210 lbs.
Above average rebounder 21 REB% ; averaged 10 PPG and 8 REB in 25 mins
Not a great freethrow shooter, but his 43.9 FTR is star level

Paint protector in college 3.5 BLK% 4.5 DBPM, but watching his film he has great footspeed enough to keep up with guards

Read on Twitter

28% from three, but had 34 made threes on good volume, and can attack any close out with a decent straight line drive.

So you have a potential stretch big who can defend - so what? Well, looking at his games, he seems to be a big time competitor in quality match-ups:

25/18 versus Arkansas
23/11 versus Auburn
16/9 versus Houston

The Houston game stands out because you see him play against Jarace Walker and not give up an inch in the match-up. He had a couple times where he got caught on travels, but he was still being super aggressive. I just like to see guys with his motor.

Watch on YouTube

I mean players like Walker and Hendricks rate lotto, but this guy can't be that far behind especially being on 18 on draft day. His freethrow shooting and 3P% has got to increase, but looking at his form, I don't see any major issues on his release and overall he has really nice touch with the ball.

To me, at worst you get a Nic Claxton type drafting Clowney. I do see him developing into a potential small forward but he will need a couple years to max out his development. By age 20/21, we might have a scary player.

I agree that he’s a similar style of player to Hendricks and Jarace. Although, Jarace is a cut above the other two, and Hendricks seems like a better version of Clowney. These types of players are the prototype for the future outside of the unicorns like Wemby and Porzingis.

I can see Noah Clowney developing past both Jarace and Hendricks though because athletics are in his genes. His cousin is Jadaveon Clowney who was a bit of a unicorn himself in the NCAA and was the #1 pick because of it.

Is this guy more of a Kuminga Issac J.Grant type of SF/PF or is me more of a Precious/Boucher PF/SF... If he's more wing than big then I am intrigued. If he's a big small ball 5 then I'm not really interested

He looks like 6'10 Precious, but that's awesome!!! Precious and I can see Jarace at 6'8, not doing as well against length.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Watch on YouTube

Reminder why Gradey Dick is legit.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

It's almost an alien concept to me seeing 6'8 players be able to dribble the ball well because ours pretty much either suck at it or have a barely passable handle.

[Dalek]

It's almost an alien concept to me seeing 6'8 players be able to dribble the ball well because ours pretty much either suck at it or have a barely passable handle.

I like Gradey but I wonder how different is he from Jett Howard. Not a huge difference in made threes especially since Howard played in 7 fewer games. Both have low freethrow rates, low assist rates. Gradey is a better rebounder and defender, but I don't know if he is better at self-creation. Howard had 77% of his threes assisted, while Dick 80%. I watched Howard a lot more than Dick, and he has bad shot selection, but he has a lot of shot versatility and a great handle for his size.

It is not that I wouldn't have Gradey ahead of Jett, but I wonder why Gradey gets so much high lotto hype while Jett is at times around 20. To me, they should be pretty close to each other, but I could be wrong about them.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

It's almost an alien concept to me seeing 6'8 players be able to dribble the ball well because ours pretty much either suck at it or have a barely passable handle.

I like Gradey but I wonder how different is he from Jett Howard. Not a huge difference in made threes especially since Howard played in 7 fewer games. Both have low freethrow rates, low assist rates. Gradey is a better rebounder and defender, but I don't know if he is better at self-creation. Howard had 77% of his threes assisted, while Dick 80%. I watched Howard a lot more than Dick, and he has bad shot selection, but he has a lot of shot versatility and a great handle for his size.

It is not that I wouldn't have Gradey ahead of Jett, but I wonder why Gradey gets so much high lotto hype while Jett is at times around 20. To me, they should be pretty close to each other, but I could be wrong about them.

Gradey was an afterthought in Kansas' offense for the most part. There were games they didn't even look his way as it was a group of veteran college players looking to get theirs first many games. If Gradey had played on another team he would have had a lot more opportunities to have the ball in his hands and put it on the floor.

He's a tough kid who fights for everything on the court and is superior to Howard in almost every regard. Howard is soft. Gradey is a better shooter, better cutter, has shown much more ability running in transition and driving to the rim and finishing. He has just as much shot versatility and can score in many other ways than simply catching and shooting even though that was primarily what was asked of him. He has a high bball IQ when it comes to off ball motion and helping his teammates find an outlet.

At the end of the day he's a superior shooter, shows more burgeoning ability to drive and finish, is a better rebounder, defender, and scraps and shows more intensity and competitiveness on both ends of the floor. There is no comparison.

[Dalek]

It's almost an alien concept to me seeing 6'8 players be able to dribble the ball well because ours pretty much either suck at it or have a barely passable handle.

I like Gradey but I wonder how different is he from Jett Howard. Not a huge difference in made threes especially since Howard played in 7 fewer games. Both have low freethrow rates, low assist rates. Gradey is a better rebounder and defender, but I don't know if he is better at self-creation. Howard had 77% of his threes assisted, while Dick 80%. I watched Howard a lot more than Dick, and he has bad shot selection, but he has a lot of shot versatility and a great handle for his size.

It is not that I wouldn't have Gradey ahead of Jett, but I wonder why Gradey gets so much high lotto hype while Jett is at times around 20. To me, they should be pretty close to each other, but I could be wrong about them.

Gradey was an afterthought in Kansas' offense for the most part. There were games they didn't even look his way as it was a group of veteran college players looking to get theirs first many games. If Gradey had played on another team he would have had a lot more opportunities to have the ball in his hands and put it on the floor.

He's a tough kid who fights for everything on the court and is superior to Howard in almost every regard. Howard is soft. Gradey is a better shooter, better cutter, has shown much more ability running in transition and driving to the rim and finishing. He has just as much shot versatility and can score in many other ways than simply catching and shooting even though that was primarily what was asked of him. He has a high bball IQ when it comes to off ball motion and helping his teammates find an outlet.

At the end of the day he's a superior shooter, shows more burgeoning ability to drive and finish, is a better rebounder, defender, and scraps and shows more intensity and competitiveness on both ends of the floor. There is no comparison.

I took a lot of competitiveness, toughness and scrappiness from your response. Those are tough things to quantify, but I will give it to you because so many comment about Gradey Dick's intangibles.

Both these guys played on veteran teams so I don't think either was catered to much - Michigan was all about Hunter Dickinson. My point is that neither looks like a primary option in the NBA and will likely both be shooting threes created for them. I do see both having similar shot-creation upside. Both have a bit of shake but the dribble is to get to a jumpshot rather than to draw a foul or finish at the rim.

Long-term upside, I just don't see anything that equate either as big time athletes but both have good size.

Maybe Dick's IQ is off the charts, but Howard has his NBA dad/coach which makes a difference as far a predicator of future NBA success. Like I mentioned, I do have Gradey ahead of Jett today, but I am not as sure down the line in a couple years after NBA coaching. It really depends on where these guys end up.

Personally I'd love to see Gradey Dick end up on Utah and Jett Howard on Miami. Those would be ideal places for both.