Giannis - 2X MVP - FMVP - DPOY - Offseason discussion

Plossum · Post #1841 » by **Plossum** » Sat Apr 1, 2023 4:48 am

Who’s gonna be brave enough to put up a “Giannis tears his ACL” post tomorrow?

brewbucks · Post #1842 » by **brewbucks** » Sat Apr 1, 2023 1:16 pm

Watch on YouTube

FlagsFlyForever · Post #1843 » by **FlagsFlyForever** » Sat Apr 1, 2023 7:48 pm

jschligs wrote:Giannis not winning MVP doesn’t bother me at all. It’s a popularity contest and doesn’t take into account defense. If it did, on a single player level, Giannis would’ve won the last 4 and this year.

It clearly takes into account defense or Giannis wouldn't have won any MVPs. Even if Giannis is the best player in the world when he's on the floor (which is highly debatable), he's off the floor so often that it has to be a consideration. Jokic has played 1060 more minutes than Giannis over the past three seasons. At Giannis' average of 32.1 mpg, that's equivalent to Jokic playing 33 more games than Giannis.

jschligs · Post #1844 » by **jschligs** » Sat Apr 1, 2023 7:51 pm

FlagsFlyForever wrote:
jschligs wrote:Giannis not winning MVP doesn’t bother me at all. It’s a popularity contest and doesn’t take into account defense. If it did, on a single player level, Giannis would’ve won the last 4 and this year.

It clearly takes into account defense or Giannis wouldn't have won any MVPs. Even if Giannis is the best player in the world when he's on the floor (which is highly debatable), he's off the floor so often that it has to be a consideration. Jokic has played 1060 more minutes than Giannis over the past three seasons. At Giannis' average of 32.1 mpg, that's equivalent to Jokic playing 33 more games than Giannis.

It absolutely does not. Jokic isn’t anywhere near Giannis’ level defensively and it’s insanely obvious. Giannis led his team to top 1-3 finishes in the East while only playing 32 minutes because he didn’t have to play more. Sure it’s debatable if he’s the best of the floor, but Giannis was a DPOY winner or finalist. Jokic isn’t anywhere near that. Giannis had a statistical great season the last 5 years on both sides of the ball.

Post #1845 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Apr 1, 2023 8:52 pm

In that CBS morning interview, that might be the boldest "I'm staying in Milwaukee" statement I've seen from him. Granted, the shelf life may not be forever.

FlagsFlyForever · Post #1846 » by **FlagsFlyForever** » Sat Apr 1, 2023 9:54 pm

jschligs wrote:
FlagsFlyForever wrote:
jschligs wrote:Giannis not winning MVP doesn’t bother me at all. It’s a popularity contest and doesn’t take into account defense. If it did, on a single player level, Giannis would’ve won the last 4 and this year.

It clearly takes into account defense or Giannis wouldn't have won any MVPs. Even if Giannis is the best player in the world when he's on the floor (which is highly debatable), he's off the floor so often that it has to be a consideration. Jokic has played 1060 more minutes than Giannis over the past three seasons. At Giannis' average of 32.1 mpg, that's equivalent to Jokic playing 33 more games than Giannis.

It absolutely does not. Jokic isn’t anywhere near Giannis’ level defensively and it’s insanely obvious. Giannis led his team to top 1-3 finishes in the East while only playing 32 minutes because he didn’t have to play more. Sure it’s debatable if he’s the best of the floor, but Giannis was a DPOY winner or finalist. Jokic isn’t anywhere near that. Giannis had a statistical great season the last 5 years on both sides of the ball.

I never said Jokic was as good as Giannis on defense. I said Giannis doesn't win OPOY over Harden in 2019. He won MVP because of his defense.

And I'm completely lost on how Giannis "doesn't have to play more". I suppose it's true the Bucks are 10-6 without Giannis this season, but surely the Bucks could've locked up the #1 seed this season and finished higher than 3rd last season if Giannis played as much as Jokic.

Post #1847 » by **MickeyDavis** » Mon Apr 3, 2023 10:44 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #1848 » by **ReasonablySober** » Mon Apr 3, 2023 10:53 pm

Well that's the kiss of death.

tydett · Post #1849 » by **tydett** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 12:34 am

ReasonablySober wrote:Well that's the kiss of death.

Giannis' kiss of death, unfortunately, was the team losing to the schedule in Denver and against Boston. Not his fault, but if the media hadn't locked onto the Jokic vs. Embiid narrative 3 months ago, it might've been different. He's a classic case of suffering from success.

Licensed to Il · Post #1850 » by **Licensed to Il** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 3:13 am

Fun question, is Kendrick Perkins the dumbest athlete turned analyst in recent memory?

Post #1851 » by **paulpressey25** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 2:17 pm

This was a good pod if you are a Giannis fan. They pretty much ripped on the fact Embiid and Jokic are considered 1/2 in the voting

https://www.theringer.com/2023/4/3/23668601/is-voter-fatigue-hurting-giannis-chances-to-win-mvp-plus-kawhi-puzzling-absence-against-grizzlies

Matches Malone · Post #1852 » by **Matches Malone** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 4:25 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #1853 » by **Prez** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 4:55 pm

Just such a bummer the Boston game went the way it did. If that game was even remotely competitive even in a loss, if we win out and get to 60, Philly/Denver lost one or two more, Giannis may have been able to steal MVP. Jokic is missing games now, Embiid has cooled off a bit and Philly has lost games. If we finished like 5-6 games ahead of Denver/Philly in the loss column, Giannis may have had it. I just think the Celtics game was a death sentence for his candidacy, unfortunately.

emunney · Post #1854 » by **emunney** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 5:00 pm

Prez wrote:Just such a bummer the Boston game went the way it did. If that game was even remotely competitive even in a loss, if we win out and get to 60, Philly/Denver lost one or two more, Giannis may have been able to steal MVP. Jokic is missing games now, Embiid has cooled off a bit and Philly has lost games. If we finished like 5-6 games ahead of Denver/Philly in the loss column, Giannis may have had it. I just think the Celtics game was a death sentence for his candidacy, unfortunately.

The Philly game has breathed a bit of life into it but I think it's too little, too late, I agree. It's an honorable mention situation.

MartyConlonOnTheRun · Post #1855 » by **MartyConlonOnTheRun** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 5:34 pm

Prez wrote:Just such a bummer the Boston game went the way it did. If that game was even remotely competitive even in a loss, if we win out and get to 60, Philly/Denver lost one or two more, Giannis may have been able to steal MVP. Jokic is missing games now, Embiid has cooled off a bit and Philly has lost games. If we finished like 5-6 games ahead of Denver/Philly in the loss column, Giannis may have had it. I just think the Celtics game was a death sentence for his candidacy, unfortunately.

I agree. He may have even survived with say a 30/12 on good shooting a loss. If he had say a 40/12 and we still have the same sixers game, I think he is the front runner.

tydett · Post #1856 » by **tydett** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 5:49 pm

Take solace, guys, that in 20 years, our grandkids will be asking "How did Giannis lead his team to a 1 seed with nobody else playing on his team, win a championship and NOT get MVP over a big who couldn't guard the rim and a foul merchant fraud who never won anything?"

Ron Swanson · Post #1857 » by **Ron Swanson** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 6:13 pm

Licensed to Il wrote:Fun question, is Kendrick Perkins the dumbest athlete turned analyst in recent memory?

That's a pretty high bar to clear. Is that Ryan Hollins loser still doing TV?

CharityStripe34 · Post #1858 » by **CharityStripe34** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 6:27 pm

Prez wrote:Just such a bummer the Boston game went the way it did. If that game was even remotely competitive even in a loss, if we win out and get to 60, Philly/Denver lost one or two more, Giannis may have been able to steal MVP. Jokic is missing games now, Embiid has cooled off a bit and Philly has lost games. If we finished like 5-6 games ahead of Denver/Philly in the loss column, Giannis may have had it. I just think the Celtics game was a death sentence for his candidacy, unfortunately.

Apparently in both ESPN straw polls he was distantly in third place, so I'm not sure just how much it would've helped. I'm sure he'll get some votes from those who have openly said they're undecided, but not too many.

greekbuck34 · Post #1859 » by **greekbuck34** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 6:31 pm

Prez wrote:Just such a bummer the Boston game went the way it did. If that game was even remotely competitive even in a loss, if we win out and get to 60, Philly/Denver lost one or two more, Giannis may have been able to steal MVP. Jokic is missing games now, Embiid has cooled off a bit and Philly has lost games. If we finished like 5-6 games ahead of Denver/Philly in the loss column, Giannis may have had it. I just think the Celtics game was a death sentence for his candidacy, unfortunately.

If we had beat the Celtics Giannis would have sat down for the rest of the games since we would only need 1 more win to lock the 1st seed so he would lose steam just by not playing. It doesn't matter. One more MVP does little things for his legacy. From now on it's only finals and rings.

Lets get Lopez the DPOY and next season we will try for Jrue.

skones · Post #1860 » by **skones** » Tue Apr 4, 2023 6:57 pm

jschligs wrote:
FlagsFlyForever wrote:
jschligs wrote:Giannis not winning MVP doesn’t bother me at all. It’s a popularity contest and doesn’t take into account defense. If it did, on a single player level, Giannis would’ve won the last 4 and this year.

It clearly takes into account defense or Giannis wouldn't have won any MVPs. Even if Giannis is the best player in the world when he's on the floor (which is highly debatable), he's off the floor so often that it has to be a consideration. Jokic has played 1060 more minutes than Giannis over the past three seasons. At Giannis' average of 32.1 mpg, that's equivalent to Jokic playing 33 more games than Giannis.

It absolutely does not. Jokic isn’t anywhere near Giannis’ level defensively and it’s insanely obvious. Giannis led his team to top 1-3 finishes in the East while only playing 32 minutes because he didn’t have to play more. Sure it’s debatable if he’s the best of the floor, but Giannis was a DPOY winner or finalist. Jokic isn’t anywhere near that. Giannis had a statistical great season the last 5 years on both sides of the ball.

Giannis isn't anywhere near Jokic's level offensively and that's also insanely obvious. It works both ways. I'm also of the opinion that Giannis's defense is generally overrated.