38 y/o MJ vs 38 y/o LeBron

Heej · Post #21 » by **Heej** » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:00 pm

homecourtloss wrote:Bump

LMFAO great bump. Early season samploors in shambles

rk2023 · Post #22 » by **rk2023** » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:14 pm

Bumping this, but main premise: fans of sport (including basketball) love to be taken in by the moment more and more each day.

AEnigma · Post #23 » by **AEnigma** » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:24 pm

2002 Jordan, absolute best seven consecutive games (22 January to 3 February): 31.4/5.6/6.3 on +2.1% league relative efficiency

2022 Lebron, past thirty games: 31.9/8.3/6.8 on +3.3% league relative efficiency

I look forward to doing this all again next season. :lol:

70sFan · Post #24 » by **70sFan** » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:32 pm

AEnigma wrote:2002 Jordan, absolute best seven consecutive games (22 January to 3 February): 31.4/5.6/6.3 on +2.1% league relative efficiency

2022 Lebron, past thirty games: 31.9/8.3/6.8 on +3.3% league relative efficiency

I look forward to doing this all again next season.

To be honest, I'm surprised it's even that close.

AEnigma · Post #25 » by **AEnigma** » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:50 pm

^ Beauty of selective samples. I am sure you have seen Lebron’s numbers since Davis went out lol.

On a perhaps related note, that specific stretch for Jordan coincides with Rip’s absence and then slow reintegration back into the starting lineup.

Colbinii · Post #26 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:53 pm

Ein Sof wrote:MJ: 20.7 PER, 3.1 BPM, 0.075 WS/48

LBJ: 18.5 PER, 2.4 BPM, 0.045 WS/48

Discuss

LBJ: 25.7 PER, 6.8 BPM, .155 WS/48

Discuss

dygaction · Post #27 » by **dygaction** » Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:56 am

70sFan wrote:38 years old Kareem crushes them, so I don't really get this discussion.

Discuss.

Post #28 » by **trex_8063** » Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:59 am

homecourtloss wrote:Bump

At the time of your bump I think it can be succinctly summarized by the following prior posts:

Ein Sof wrote:MJ: 20.7 PER, 3.1 BPM, 0.075 WS/48

LBJ: 18.5 PER, 2.4 BPM, 0.045 WS/48

Discuss

Owly wrote:1) An 8 game sample isn't enough to draw strong conclusions from.
.

HeartBreakKid · Post #29 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:04 am

Kind of amazing how people still have November and even October takes after years of watching basketball. You'd think youd notice a pattern after a couple years.

70sFan · Post #30 » by **70sFan** » Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:07 am

dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:38 years old Kareem crushes them, so I don't really get this discussion.

Discuss.

It would be perfect to see James in the playoffs this season to conclude who's better, but I am afraid we may not see that.

OhayoKD · Post #31 » by **OhayoKD** » Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:02 am

70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
70sFan wrote:38 years old Kareem crushes them, so I don't really get this discussion.

Discuss.

It would be perfect to see James in the playoffs this season to conclude who's better, but I am afraid we may not see that.

I mean, you'd kind of have to give it to kareem by default right?

Post #32 » by **trex_8063** » Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:37 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Kind of amazing how people still have November and even October takes after years of watching basketball. You'd think youd notice a pattern after a couple years.

Do you remember "Lin-sanity"?

I remember there were a couple posters going on about how this could be a newly-emerging GOAT candidate. No s***: they were comparing him to Michael Jordan and such.......based on like a 4-game sample.

Even tiny sample aside: it was patently clear [imo] based on who he'd been in the past, his skillset and athletic package, that "GOAT-level" was simply not in the cards. But there were nonetheless one or two people who went there.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #33 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:18 pm

I think its sort of easy now to say that LeBron's numbers must be a byproduct of a far easier era(and I think there's definitely some truth to that) but compared to say 25 year old LeBron think of how many more times LeBron has practiced shooting and how many things he's added to his repertoire since then on top of probably putting only 60% as much energy into defense as he did back then. So it does stand to reason how he's able to score so easily now given how much of his athleticism he's retained and his natural size/strength at his position. All of this stuff he's doing this season has been ingrained in him from 20 years worth of experience and practice so of course its easier to do in some ways than it was when he was 25. Much like Kareem never forgot how to do a skyhook.

capfan33 · Post #34 » by **capfan33** » Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:49 pm

OhayoKD wrote:
70sFan wrote:
dygaction wrote:
Discuss.

It would be perfect to see James in the playoffs this season to conclude who's better, but I am afraid we may not see that.

I mean, you'd kind of have to give it to kareem by default right?

It's a bit weird because it's 85 playoffs Kareem+86 regular season Kareem. Not quite an apples-to-apples comparison. Hope Lebron gets to the playoffs.

Colbinii · Post #35 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Apr 5, 2023 2:07 pm

Looks like we need an end of season bumb.

MJ: 20.7 PER, 3.1 BPM, 0.075 WS/48
LJ: 23.9 PER, 6.0 BPM, .139 WS/48

70sFan · Post #36 » by **70sFan** » Wed Apr 5, 2023 4:15 pm

Colbinii wrote:Looks like we need an end of season bumb.

MJ: 20.7 PER, 3.1 BPM, 0.075 WS/48
LJ: 23.9 PER, 6.0 BPM, .139 WS/48

James finished stronger, which gives him the edge in this comparison. Neither is considered for my top 10 players of the season though.

AEnigma · Post #37 » by **AEnigma** » Wed Apr 5, 2023 4:28 pm

70sFan wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Looks like we need an end of season bumb.

MJ: 20.7 PER, 3.1 BPM, 0.075 WS/48
LJ: 23.9 PER, 6.0 BPM, .139 WS/48

James finished stronger, which gives him the edge in this comparison. Neither is considered for my top 10 players of the season though.

Unless you are heavily penalising for missed time, I really do not see ten players who provided more to their teams when they were on the court.

70sFan · Post #38 » by **70sFan** » Wed Apr 5, 2023 4:46 pm

AEnigma wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Looks like we need an end of season bumb.

MJ: 20.7 PER, 3.1 BPM, 0.075 WS/48
LJ: 23.9 PER, 6.0 BPM, .139 WS/48

James finished stronger, which gives him the edge in this comparison. Neither is considered for my top 10 players of the season though.

Unless you are heavily penalising for missed time, I really do not see ten players who provided more to their teams when they were on the court.

I definitely penalise him for missed time. James played 50 games this season, that's a lot of value missed.

OhayoKD · Post #39 » by **OhayoKD** » Wed Apr 5, 2023 6:41 pm

OhayoKD · Post #40 » by **OhayoKD** » Wed Apr 5, 2023 6:49 pm

70sFan wrote:
AEnigma wrote:
70sFan wrote:James finished stronger, which gives him the edge in this comparison. Neither is considered for my top 10 players of the season though.

Unless you are heavily penalising for missed time, I really do not see ten players who provided more to their teams when they were on the court.

I definitely penalise him for missed time. James played 50 games this season, that's a lot of value missed.

He played 52 games which is 2 games less than Steph Curry and 6 games more than Kevin Durant. Would you say those guys aren't top 10 either?

I'm certainly not seeing a strong per-possession case for them being clearly better right now. Lebron's looked very good via box or raw-stuff both pre-and post-trade, and that includes a large chunk of basketball where his team had abysmal spacing(the team even looked good in lebron-westbrook minuities).

Looking at LEBRON(which i believe is considered a top tier lineup-adjusted metric), 23 Lebron is ahead of Curry, Durant, and Embid per possession AND per accumulated "wins added" only trailing Jokic from the 5 I selected(doesn't have a full list for some reason)