NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (part 5 - The Final-er MVP Countdown!)

[Greatness]

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But somehow this is a massive robbery. Are all the players racist as well?

[Mrakar]

Read on Twitter

But somehow this is a massive robbery. Are all the players racist as well?

If Embiid wins i think he fully deserved it.
However, the fact that Shams is tweeting something like this is killing me...This MVP campaining is just (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to me.
Doc is on all front pages today. Malone did same thing couple weeks ago and it was barely mentioned...

I just hope it doesnt become a thing. MVP should be decided on the court and not on twitter...

[Wolfgang630]

Why is Doc ESPN now? This is some desperate stuff for Embiid to win. He’s already got it. I don’t want to hear no more that the media doesn’t like Embiid. They actually really like him.

[MrBigShot]

It's whatever, coaches will always advocate for and stick up for their players. Embiid has had several MVP caliber seasons but hasn't managed to win yet, and it's definitely something that matters to him. If I was a coach i'd do the same.

At the end of the day he came up big in the second half of the season. His play did the talking.

[HardenToSixers]

Why is Doc ESPN now? This is some desperate stuff for Embiid to win. He’s already got it. I don’t want to hear no more that the media doesn’t like Embiid. They actually really like him.

They typically don't like him and/or Philly generally. They are just frontrunning a story now that it's clear Embiid will win (see Vegas odds) and it's coming off a marketable, flashy 50 point win against the Celtics on nationally televised on TNT. Not that wild.

[Jkam31]

I’m a little pissed off that a disingenuous racist narrative is about to lead to the biggest MVP robbery since Dave Cowens beat Kareem in 1973, costing me $4000, yes. You can’t argue with people who don’t care about logic.

Racist narrative? Does Kendrick Perkins have that much clout? You’re reaching. If I were set to lose that much, I’d probably do the same. lol

Yes, racist narrative. The NBA is the most multi-cultural, liberal, "woke" league in all of professional sports. (I voted for Biden and I'll do it again, I'm not actually saying the left is anywhere near as bad as the right, just pointing out where the NBA fits on the spectrum.) The absolute worst thing that can happen to any of these NBA media types who cover this heavily majority black league is to be accused of being racist. They'll bend over backwards to never dismiss the idea of racism being a factor in any situation because they know that if they say something that's even remotely construed as racist it can end their career.

Perkins made a massively cynical hot take about Jokic winning MVPs because he was white shortly after the straw poll. It was straight out of the Skip Bayless school of saying something stupid for attention, but instead of telling LeBron to "shut up and dribble" while praising Tebow for being a "winner", Perkins was doing the opposite and attacking the white guy and pretending like he was benefiting from privilege in the one sphere where if anything, being white is a disadvantage. The initial reaction to Perkins was negative for stirring up hysteria, but notably the media members didn't want to outright say there couldn't be pro-white racial bias because that goes against the talking points of the furthest fringe of the left wing. All of a sudden, prominent NBA voices like Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe who had been heaping praises on Jokic all year long suddenly went mum. Either they "hadn't decided on the MVP race yet" or it was Embiid. The conversation changed overnight and all of a sudden, 2 good weeks for Embiid were massive and turning the race while a similarly good 2 weeks for Jokic were completely ignored. Pointing out Jokic's virtues just wasn't PC all of a sudden and the more casual voters who just kinda followed the national discourse were swept along in that wake.

Votes are public now and I was actually listening to a podcast the other day where someone was talking about how people were scared to vote against Harden in the MVP race a few years back, because Harden would greatly limit access for interviews and such to people who didn't vote for him. People don't want to get swept up in that **** of doing something that could damage their future career opportunities just for a vote that they don't actually care about. It's easier to just justify "hey, voter fatigue's not so bad, it might actually be a good thing. Let's let Embiid have a turn. Hey he had 50 tonight, that makes it really easy to justify. My eyes in this one game say he's better." I guarantee you that if the MVP race had minimal media coverage and secret ballots, Jokic would still be a lock to win, but Perkins attacking someone for their race just to make people listen to him is actually going to rob possibly the greatest season in the history of the sport from even winning most valuable player for their season.

Jokic could have averaged 50 ppg after those comments and still lost the mvp anyone with a brain knee this

[vulture]

Giannis not winning this MVP is a tragedy.

[Wolfgang630]

Giannis not winning this MVP is a tragedy.

The media don’t want him to win. If anyone has anything to say to the media it’s him. He’s the best player in the game. He’s on the clear cut favorite team for the championship. His numbers are great. He should have a 3rd MVP, but what can you do.

[Woodsanity]

I can't imagine the amount of whining and crying there would be if Embiid loses. This board would be unbearable for a while.

So I honestly want Embiid to win it at this point.

[TinmanZBoy]

It’s a shame whoever loses it for these three… a season of greatness

[Purch]

Giannis not winning this MVP is a tragedy.

I don't know about a travesty. But he'd probably have my vote.

[bebopdeluxe]

I can't imagine the amount of whining and crying there would be if Embiid loses. This board would be unbearable for a while.

So I honestly want Embiid to win it at this point.

WTF?

I am sorry - you DO know that you are posting in the RealGM General Board - home of the "Jokic stans" (trademark).

Look at the poll at the top of this thread. According to the voters, Embiid comes in 3rd in "who SHOULD win the MVP" - and Jokic has him by a TWO TO ONE MARGIN. If anything, a bunch of Jokic stans have bailed on this thread - because it looks like their boy isn't winning the award.

Keeping it 100, I came on the board after Embiid didn't play in Denver and said I thought he didn't deserve to win it. However the combination of Jokic's unavailability, his team's struggles down the stretch, and the split-screen of Embiid putting up a literally historic line against the Celtics while Jokic face-planted against the worst team in the NBA, I think gives the award to Embiid in a photo-finish. But, again - LOOK AT THE POLL RESULTS and explain to me how the GB is full of Embiid stans who will lose their cookies if he doesn't win it.

So, who EXACTLY (other than Eyetoma, Hussein and me) are the HOARDS of Embiid fans on the GB that are going to make this board "unbearable"? Huh?

I'll wait.

[Kurtz]

Yikes, Embiid is up to -750 now, Joker and Giannis +900.

Speaking of gambling, if you bet a meaningful amount on a single player and keep bringing it up in this thread, then:

1) You need to understand that you are no longer objective, it is transparent to everyone, and your arguments lose credibility, especially if you keep coming back to that racism none sense (as though anyone in the world takes Perk seriously).

2) You need to learn how to hedge. There are dozens of legal sites now and they all give different odds at different points of the year. For instance, I got in on Embiid at +1800. Freak at +900. Joker at +500. Short of a Mr. Burns' baseball team like collapse, I was protected from all angles. It's not hard to do if you're already a NBA fanatic and paying close attention to this stuff anyway. Be disciplined, hedge, seek value, and you will not lose.

[bebopdeluxe]

Yikes, Embiid is up to -750 now, Joker and Giannis +900.

Speaking of gambling, if you bet a meaningful amount on a single player and keep bringing it up in this thread, then:

1) You need to understand that you are no longer objective, it is transparent to everyone, and your arguments lose credibility, especially if you keep coming back to that racism none sense (as though anyone in the world takes Perk seriously).

2) You need to learn how to hedge. There are dozens of legal sites now and they all give different odds at different points of the year. For instance, I got in on Embiid at +1800. Freak at +900. Joker at +500. Short of a Mr. Burns' baseball team like collapse, I was protected from all angles. It's not hard to do if you're already a NBA fanatic and paying close attention to this stuff anyway. Be disciplined, hedge, seek value, and you will not lose.

Congrats on that Embiid +1800.

Good advice for those who gamble enough $ that they get bent when a play doesn't go their way. As a portfolio manager for over 20 years, I tell people you ALWAYS hedge your bets and manage your risk. I have never gambled on sports, because I never felt like I had any sense of control over the outcome...but if I did, I would follow your advice.

[HardenToSixers]

I can't imagine the amount of whining and crying there would be if Embiid loses. This board would be unbearable for a while.

So I honestly want Embiid to win it at this point.

WTF?

I am sorry - you DO know that you are posting in the RealGM General Board - home of the "Jokic stans" (trademark).

Look at the poll at the top of this thread. According to the voters, Embiid comes in 3rd in "who SHOULD win the MVP" - and Jokic has him by a TWO TO ONE MARGIN. If anything, a bunch of Jokic stans have bailed on this thread - because it looks like their boy isn't winning the award.

Keeping it 100, I came on the board after Embiid didn't play in Denver and said I thought he didn't deserve to win it. However the combination of Jokic's unavailability, his team's struggles down the stretch, and the split-screen of Embiid putting up a literally historic line against the Celtics while Jokic face-planted against the worst team in the NBA, I think gives the award to Embiid in a photo-finish. But, again - LOOK AT THE POLL RESULTS and explain to me how the GB is full of Embiid stans who will lose their cookies if he doesn't win it.

So, who EXACTLY (other than Eyetoma, Hussein and me) are the HOARDS of Embiid fans on the GB that are going to make this board "unbearable"? Huh?

I'll wait.

I'm a part timer of a day here or there in the past few weeks to just to combat the ridiculous amount of Jokic homers or lie spreading

[Mik317]

not that anyone cares but here is my take on this. Case for and against each guy

If I had a vote and was an unbias person, I'd vote for Giannis. Best player. Best Team. I think thats how it should go unless the competition is having a legendary season (see Westbrook triple double season) or the top guy won it the prior year. Its why I didn't think Jokic deserved one of his last two because his team wasn't great and you can throw all the vorp and snorps at me , the stats while great weren't legendary status either IMO. But even then its not like it was Nashian level steal job either.

Jokic is great and the Nuggets are doo doo butter without him lol. As a fellow fat boi, what Jokic does is incredible. THAT being said, past legislation aginst other guys has to come into play now. He can't be the 3 time in a row MVP after two years of losing in the first round when Giannis was getting dinged for losing in later rounds. The best team in the west doe thing rings hollow when Biid didn't win it when the Sixers were the best in East because then suddenly the records being close mattered. They changed the caculus on Russ when they began to notice his triple doubles weren't as impressive anymore so thats out the window. And Harden got dinged for his lack of defense so its only fair for Jokic to get the same. It would be a double standard on too many fronts IMO thats why i don't think he should win it.

Embiid's case is actually the flimsiest one yet of his last 3 years lol. Yeah he's leading the league in scoring...but scoring is a bit inflated this season. The Sixers are 3rd in the East but they also have a winning record without him for once (no clue how tho lol). Also this recent good run just so happened to coincide with Harden's return too. I also don't think the Sixers are good lol. This team is a second round flameout waiting to happen.

Giannis' case against is that the Bucks also won a lot of games without him and the fact that he may be the third best defender on his own team. He has a fellow all star and two former all stars. A DPOTY contender. And the Bucks allow him more rest than any of the other guys in that he plays around 32 mins a night IIRC. Not an advance stat guy but i think I saw something that Jrue has actually been their best guy and not Giannis.

So yeah each guy has valid points against them beyond "i don't like him and want my guy to win" and because of that if it was up to me I'd go with the tie breaker of better record in favor of Giannis rn.

As a Sixers fan, I hope Biid wins it. For one it will be the only joy this season will bring lol...And we can begin to run a modern offense once he gets it and stops trying to prove that he's mvp so damn much. He can claim he doesn't care as much as he wants...he cares....a lot. I would. Dude got drafted; missed two seasons; lost his brother; lost the gm who drafted him for a gm who hated him and not so openly but openly said as much; got told he was a fat piece of ****; had his team hiijacked by a guy who hates basketball but had the team still built around his needs; got Kawhii'd; lost the best friend/teammate in favor of the aforementioned basketball hater and did so to sign a guy who plays the same position as him; had basketball hater quit on him; and his own body is a ticking time bomb lol. **** sucks and getting the MVP probably would make all of that worth it. Its validation for getting past all of that if nothing else. So I need it for him...but if it does go to Giannis...i'd get it...wouldn't be happy but I'd understand it more than giving it to Jokic again..

[Bum Adebayo]

I disagree about Giannis case, as I said earlier, he's having worse numbers in many categories compared to previous years. This is a season where efficiency has gone up league wide, from 56.6% TS to 58.1 TS, yet Giannis has gone from 63.3% TS last two seasons to 60.5% TS this season, along with other stats such as win shares, BPM, etc, all down compared to years ago. If Jokic and Embiid are as good or better compared to past seasons, I don't see then how Giannis should be in the conversation, provided Giannis was not MVP in the past two seasons and was actually in 3rd or 4th place. Record alone shouldn't automatically propel a player that is showing a worse level into MVP imo. I mean contention sure, but a more distant 3rd.

[HardenToSixers]

not that anyone cares but here is my take on this. Case for and against each guy

If I had a vote and was an unbias person, I'd vote for Giannis. Best player. Best Team. I think thats how it should go unless the competition is having a legendary season (see Westbrook triple double season) or the top guy won it the prior year. Its why I didn't think Jokic deserved one of his last two because his team wasn't great and you can throw all the vorp and snorps at me , the stats while great weren't legendary status either IMO. But even then its not like it was Nashian level steal job either.

Jokic is great and the Nuggets are doo doo butter without him lol. As a fellow fat boi, what Jokic does is incredible. THAT being said, past legislation aginst other guys has to come into play now. He can't be the 3 time in a row MVP after two years of losing in the first round when Giannis was getting dinged for losing in later rounds. The best team in the west doe thing rings hollow when Biid didn't win it when the Sixers were the best in East because then suddenly the records being close mattered. They changed the caculus on Russ when they began to notice his triple doubles weren't as impressive anymore so thats out the window. And Harden got dinged for his lack of defense so its only fair for Jokic to get the same. It would be a double standard on too many fronts IMO thats why i don't think he should win it.

Embiid's case is actually the flimsiest one yet of his last 3 years lol. Yeah he's leading the league in scoring...but scoring is a bit inflated this season. The Sixers are 3rd in the East but they also have a winning record without him for once (no clue how tho lol). Also this recent good run just so happened to coincide with Harden's return too. I also don't think the Sixers are good lol. This team is a second round flameout waiting to happen.

Giannis' case against is that the Bucks also won a lot of games without him and the fact that he may be the third best defender on his own team. He has a fellow all star and two former all stars. A DPOTY contender. And the Bucks allow him more rest than any of the other guys in that he plays around 32 mins a night IIRC. Not an advance stat guy but i think I saw something that Jrue has actually been their best guy and not Giannis.

So yeah each guy has valid points against them beyond "i don't like him and want my guy to win" and because of that if it was up to me I'd go with the tie breaker of better record in favor of Giannis rn.

As a Sixers fan, I hope Biid wins it. For one it will be the only joy this season will bring lol...And we can begin to run a modern offense once he gets it and stops trying to prove that he's mvp so damn much. He can claim he doesn't care as much as he wants...he cares....a lot. I would. Dude got drafted; missed two seasons; lost his brother; lost the gm who drafted him for a gm who hated him and not so openly but openly said as much; got told he was a fat piece of ****; had his team hiijacked by a guy who hates basketball but had the team still built around his needs; got Kawhii'd; lost the best friend/teammate in favor of the aforementioned basketball hater and did so to sign a guy who plays the same position as him; had basketball hater quit on him; and his own body is a ticking time bomb lol. **** sucks and getting the MVP probably would make all of that worth it. Its validation for getting past all of that if nothing else. So I need it for him...but if it does go to Giannis...i'd get it...wouldn't be happy but I'd understand it more than giving it to Jokic again..

I agree. Although should be Luka because he's the best player in the league.

[Purch]

not that anyone cares but here is my take on this. Case for and against each guy

If I had a vote and was an unbias person, I'd vote for Giannis. Best player. Best Team. I think thats how it should go unless the competition is having a legendary season (see Westbrook triple double season) or the top guy won it the prior year. Its why I didn't think Jokic deserved one of his last two because his team wasn't great and you can throw all the vorp and snorps at me , the stats while great weren't legendary status either IMO. But even then its not like it was Nashian level steal job either.

Jokic is great and the Nuggets are doo doo butter without him lol. As a fellow fat boi, what Jokic does is incredible. THAT being said, past legislation aginst other guys has to come into play now. He can't be the 3 time in a row MVP after two years of losing in the first round when Giannis was getting dinged for losing in later rounds. The best team in the west doe thing rings hollow when Biid didn't win it when the Sixers were the best in East because then suddenly the records being close mattered. They changed the caculus on Russ when they began to notice his triple doubles weren't as impressive anymore so thats out the window. And Harden got dinged for his lack of defense so its only fair for Jokic to get the same. It would be a double standard on too many fronts IMO thats why i don't think he should win it.

Embiid's case is actually the flimsiest one yet of his last 3 years lol. Yeah he's leading the league in scoring...but scoring is a bit inflated this season. The Sixers are 3rd in the East but they also have a winning record without him for once (no clue how tho lol). Also this recent good run just so happened to coincide with Harden's return too. I also don't think the Sixers are good lol. This team is a second round flameout waiting to happen.

Giannis' case against is that the Bucks also won a lot of games without him and the fact that he may be the third best defender on his own team. He has a fellow all star and two former all stars. A DPOTY contender. And the Bucks allow him more rest than any of the other guys in that he plays around 32 mins a night IIRC. Not an advance stat guy but i think I saw something that Jrue has actually been their best guy and not Giannis.

So yeah each guy has valid points against them beyond "i don't like him and want my guy to win" and because of that if it was up to me I'd go with the tie breaker of better record in favor of Giannis rn.

As a Sixers fan, I hope Biid wins it. For one it will be the only joy this season will bring lol...And we can begin to run a modern offense once he gets it and stops trying to prove that he's mvp so damn much. He can claim he doesn't care as much as he wants...he cares....a lot. I would. Dude got drafted; missed two seasons; lost his brother; lost the gm who drafted him for a gm who hated him and not so openly but openly said as much; got told he was a fat piece of ****; had his team hiijacked by a guy who hates basketball but had the team still built around his needs; got Kawhii'd; lost the best friend/teammate in favor of the aforementioned basketball hater and did so to sign a guy who plays the same position as him; had basketball hater quit on him; and his own body is a ticking time bomb lol. **** sucks and getting the MVP probably would make all of that worth it. Its validation for getting past all of that if nothing else. So I need it for him...but if it does go to Giannis...i'd get it...wouldn't be happy but I'd understand it more than giving it to Jokic again..

I agree. Although should be Luka because he's the best player in the league.

Maybe if we got rid of the defensive side of the game.

[AleksandarN]

Can we now just appreciate the greatness of the three candidates. No need to tear down each. Just enjoy great basketball performances of the three bigs