Markelle Fultz

[The Effect]

Its hilarious to me is that there are people here that, even with how well we have played with him and how well hes done, are ready to call him a finished product and just throw him away YET are still expecting street clothes Isaac to somehow return from yet another injury, improve dramatically and be a foundational piece to this team while actually being older than fultz and playing less games

[Bergmaniac]

Franz and Fultz have played the same amount of minutes, yet a lot of people look at Fulz like he is some finished product, it's pretty odd.

It's not odd at all, Franz is 21 and has been in the league for 2 years, Fultz is 24 and has been in the league for 6 years.

[fateis007]

Franz and Fultz have played the same amount of minutes, yet a lot of people look at Fulz like he is some finished product, it's pretty odd.

It's not odd at all, Franz is 21 and has been in the league for 2 years, Fultz is 24 and has been in the league for 6 years.

do i need to insert a captain obvious gif here?

ofcourse it's odd. the guy HAS BEEN INJURED. he has the same amount of ingame development time as a second year player now. He is far from a finished product. We are talking about a #1 pick here, that shows flashes, not Anthony Bennet or some G-league no name.

[Bergmaniac]

He will be 25 in a a few weeks and he has been training with NBA coaches for 6 years, chances are he's very close to a finished product regardless of his minutes on the court.

[SOUL]

Fultz weaknesses are compounded by the fact that the rest of our team can't shoot very well. His strengths are helpful to our team.

He is clearly talented and a solid player. I'd like to have him on this team for a contract that makes sense for us... but if he wants to get overpaid, then that's a decision I wouldn't feel as bad walking away from. But also we have to recognize that we will need a shooter/scorer alongside him if we want to make it work. I find him to be not as bad as people make him out to be and also not some martyr for the team either.

Also I think moving on from him next season would make 99% of the roster unhappy. And saying to Franz and Paolo "this is for your own good" while doing a move that has potential of not working out would be disastrous. A lot of tough decisions ahead.

[Audi]

He will be 25 in a a few weeks and he has been training with NBA coaches for 6 years, chances are he's very close to a finished product regardless of his minutes on the court.

I definitely missed the memo on players peaking at 25.

[VFX]

I will enjoy the tears of all the haters when Fultz continues as starter and we make the playoffs.

And I’ll enjoy your tears when Orlando can’t get past the first round because they decided to pay a bench guy starters money due to their inability to get better players without major deficiencies.

[eyriq]

I will enjoy the tears of all the haters when Fultz continues as starter and we make the playoffs.

And I’ll enjoy your tears when Orlando can’t get past the first round because they decided to pay a bench guy starters money due to their inability to get better players without major deficiencies.

He's def not a bench guy. Gotta allow your views to update with new information.

[VFX]

I will enjoy the tears of all the haters when Fultz continues as starter and we make the playoffs.

And I’ll enjoy your tears when Orlando can’t get past the first round because they decided to pay a bench guy starters money due to their inability to get better players without major deficiencies.

He's def not a bench guy. Gotta allow your views to update with new information.

What is a point guard that doesn’t shoot 3’s, doesn’t get to the line, and doesn’t average 7-8 assists in 35 minutes? Not a starter for the majority of teams.

[Skin]

And I’ll enjoy your tears when Orlando can’t get past the first round because they decided to pay a bench guy starters money due to their inability to get better players without major deficiencies.

He's def not a bench guy. Gotta allow your views to update with new information.

What is a point guard that doesn’t shoot 3’s, doesn’t get to the line, and doesn’t average 7-8 assists in 35 minutes? Not a starter for the majority of teams.

People use to think Fox was an inefficient player until he got shooters around him. We have guys like Suggs and Paolo shooting in the .300 range from 3. Evaluating Markelle's numbers in a vacuum like this doesn't mean anything. When everybody starts improving, we will start winning. ...and clearly Markelle is still ascending and has not plateau'ed yet.

[pepe1991]

Mentally i just can't get myself through any more Fultz "debates"

There are few objective scenarios that will unfold in soon future:
1) Fultz will play out his contract year, fill stat sheet, team will get to playin, maybe playoffs, and Magic will marry him with 4-5 years $100-130M deal and seal a deal on forever- mediocrity until something groundbreaking happends

2) Fultz will get hurt and Magic will be forced to find alternative

3) Fultz has great season and walks ( apsolute best case for Magic)

4) Somebody like Cole and Suggs outplays him. This isn't very likley scenario due their bench players status, less min and less usage to get around


In his apsolute best season in nba, he is 14 ppg, 5,8 apg player. 5 years younger Jaden Ivey, for example, who nobody drools over, averages 16 and 5 while being 20-21. Jalen Williams, another rookie, is already better than him.
So even if he improves a little, it will still never be enough where he cracks top 20 players at his position. Yet, due veteran status now, since he has been in nba for 6 years, he can ask for near $150M without asking for max contracat. Good luck with that.

Magic salary cap will fill out at epic speed especially if they run back same roster next year and folks figure Franz+ Banchero+ Fultz+ Cole + Suggs isn't championship roster ( probably isn't even second round roster) but costs $150M to keep.

I'm out of that crap talk.

[pepe1991]

He's def not a bench guy. Gotta allow your views to update with new information.

What is a point guard that doesn’t shoot 3’s, doesn’t get to the line, and doesn’t average 7-8 assists in 35 minutes? Not a starter for the majority of teams.

People use to think Fox was an inefficient player until he got shooters around him. We have guys like Suggs and Paolo shooting in the .300 range from 3. Evaluating Markelle's numbers in a vacuum like this doesn't mean anything. When everybody starts improving, we will start winning. ...and clearly Markelle is still ascending and has not plateau'ed yet.

Or..:Banchero and Wendell are sooo damn much better than him, just aren't great shooters. .. so it's easier to you know.... replace him than 2 out of your 3 best players ?

Here we go, back to Payton debate. " We should replace Oladipo with shooter so Payton has more room". Great. That worked just marvelously for us. Keep burning years,assets and money on player who NBA force- retired as obsolete, 3 years after Magic spent 4 years burning money, assets, players, even draft picks around to "make it work".

This decision to "develop" Gordon and Payton instad of keeping Harris and Oladipo was driven with BS mindset from your post.
It "only" took Gordon 9 years to even become as good as Harris, and Payton was one of biggest waste of spaces and time any nba team ever invested in one starter ever. That MFer was starting for 3 different coaches and all 3 of them went through mental gimnastics of putting him on bench, just to have Hennigan interfere and return him right back.

I think that even Skiles once cracked and said he can't win games with PG who can't shoot ( don't qoute me on that, i'll try to find).

To play it simple. Banchero will probably never be elite shooter. Franz with years of college and 2 in nba is definition of "average " shooter. Wendell is one of best Magic players in all categories- but also not good shooter. But THEY ARE BEST MAGIC PLAYERS.
There is no need to change whole roster to fit your role player, it's way easier to replace your role player to fit your best players.

[Rainwater]

I really feel like Fultz is AG part 2. Great role player, fans love him and so do the players but he just doesn't fit. Fans will for years try to justify his short comings but at some point you have to realize it is what it is. As this team grows Franz and Paolo will increasely have the ball in their hands and you will have to have shooters around them. Fultz just doesn't fit where this team is going.

[Bergmaniac]

He will be 25 in a a few weeks and he has been training with NBA coaches for 6 years, chances are he's very close to a finished product regardless of his minutes on the court.

I definitely missed the memo on players peaking at 25.

The vast majority of NBA players are very close to a finished article in terms of skills at this age, especially the ones who only had one year of college like Fultz. The ones like Harden who kept adding to their arsenal well into their late 20s are few and far between.

[MoMM]

Keep in mind that he is 25, but 2-3 years he spent rehabbing and then trying to change his shot. It's not like he has been in the league for 6 years and playing full-time all of those years.

I am OK with keeping him. A team can't have 5 superstars, but we need to improve at SG. We can't have a starting SG who had 10+ points in only 12 out of 48 games played.

[Skybox]

And I’ll enjoy your tears when Orlando can’t get past the first round because they decided to pay a bench guy starters money due to their inability to get better players without major deficiencies.

He's def not a bench guy. Gotta allow your views to update with new information.

What is a point guard that doesn’t shoot 3’s, doesn’t get to the line, and doesn’t average 7-8 assists in 35 minutes? Not a starter for the majority of teams.

He's right...not a bench guy either...he's an undersized PF with a truly great handle, not a PG at all. He has so many skills, he really does...but he lacks the biggest ones for a modern PG...not just the 3pt shooting. If Fultz played this well all season, we'd be firmly into the play-in...if we resign him for $20m per - we stay there indefinitely.

[eyriq]

These percentiles compare Fultz to the 48 other point guards that started more than 6 games this season. So it is a strong comp set.

My takeaways are that his strengths lie in his inside scoring and defensive prowess, while his weaknesses are a lack of significant impact on the team's performance, poor 3-point shooting, subpar free throw shooting, and low rate of drawing offensive fouls. My conclusion is that we need another year of evaluation.

Advanced Stats
WS/48 50th
OBPM 43rd
DBPM 70th
VORP 47th
PER 65th
FTr 42nd

Counting Stats
PTS 52nd
TRB 60th
AST 48th
STL 85th
BLK 66th

Play-by-Play
OnCourt 17th
On-Off 13th
BadPass 50th
LostBall 66th
Shooting_Fouls_Commited 51st
Shooting_Fouls_Drawn 48th
Off_Foulds_Drawn 14th
Points_Gen_by_Assists 52nd
And1 58th
Gets_Blkd 60th

Shooting
FG% by Distance
0-3 67th
3-10 83rd
10-16 44th
16-3P 48th
3P 1st
Corner 3 46th

% of FGA by Distance
Dunks 88th
0-3 92nd
3-10 93rd
10-16 88th
16-3P 90th
3P 1st
Corner 3 98th

% of FG Assisted
2P 67th
3P 98th

[VFX]

I really feel like Fultz is AG part 2. Great role player, fans love him and so do the players but he just doesn't fit. Fans will for years try to justify his short comings but at some point you have to realize it is what it is. As this team grows Franz and Paolo will increasely have the ball in their hands and you will have to have shooters around them. Fultz just doesn't fit where this team is going.

This is absolutely the situation.

Section of fans, players, and media loves him.

Obviously has a flashy skill set but doesn’t make the team better.

People wait around for years hoping they unlock a skill set they’ll never have.

Front office pays them a ton of money in the process.

The difference between AG and Fultz is that one of these players plays a position that matters for the sake of the rest of the team’s success and the other is ancillary.

It’s funny how Orlando went from Elfrid to DJ to Fultz. Why is this organization incapable of landing a well rounded point guard that is better than league average at their position?

Fitting next to Paolo and Franz is the only thing that matters. Not sure why this is even a conversation anymore.

[VFX]

1) Fultz will play out his contract year, fill stat sheet, team will get to playin, maybe playoffs, and Magic will marry him with 4-5 years $100-130M deal and seal a deal on forever- mediocrity until something groundbreaking happens.

This is what will happen. There is about a 90% chance it does.

When Orlando inevitably hits a wall, with him at the helm, and people start wondering “why?” I’ll revisit this thread and quote this.

Classic square peg round hole nonsense. Basically the Elfrid roster logjam situation again.

[drsd]

Mentally i just can't get myself through any more Fultz "debates".

Then don't

Seriously, let's focus our emotions on the dumpster-fire of a SG rotation. That should make us both happy.