NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (part 5 - The Final-er MVP Countdown!)

[ty 4191]

Imagine Jokic winning a third in a row and not winning the chip this year. Instantly becomes THE unrivaled and unprecedentedly accomplished poster boy of magnificent but ultimately meaningless stats in an era of historical stat inflation. The most accomplished loser in NBA history. He would be a walking mockery of the award for years to come until he finally wins something.

Then an asterisk for each year he won “his teammates were awful so he deserves the award” to make sure the RGM Jokic apologists are appeased.

Read on Twitter

"The Rangz! Argument".

Bullsh**, totally LAZY argumentation. Specious and facile.

Michael Jordan through age 27, Playoffs, before they built a dynasty around him:
-Playoffs (53 games)
-Team Record: 24-29
-Team Series Record: 5-6
-3 first round exits, including 2 first round sweeps
-Two ECF

Jordan's line: 36.2/6.9/6.7 on +4.7% rTS. Led all players those years in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs.

Nikola Jokic through age 26, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (48 games)
-Team Record: 21-27
-Team Series Record: 4-4
-1 first round exit
-1 WCF

Jokic's line: 26.4/11.5/6.4 on +4.1 rTS%. Top 3 player in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs those 4 years.

Kevin Garnett through age 27, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 17-30
-Team Series Record: 2-8
-7 first round exits
-1 WCF

Garnett's line: 23.3/13.4/5.0. 2nd in Defensive Rating in the playoffs, those years, among players with 2000 MP. RAPM ranks him as the second most impactful player of 2002-2007 period, overall, in the NBA.

Wilt Chamberlain through age 28, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 21-26
-Team Series Record: 4-5
-Much shorter playoffs structure, so they're incompatible. Still:

Wilt's line: 33.4/26.0/3.2 on +4.7 tTS%. Clearly the MVP in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional box score metrics.

Oscar Robertson through age 31, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (39 games)
-Team Record: 15-24
-Team Series Record: 2-6
-4 first round exits
-2 EDF

Oscar's playoff line: 29.7/9.3/9.4 on an astounding +8.2 rTS%. Clearly, a top 2-3 player overall in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional box score metrics. He had 8 triple doubles in those 39 games, and that's when the assist rule precluded assists if the player receiving the ball dribbled before he took the shot. Much harder to get assists back then vs. today.

What did Michael Jordan win before they built a tremendous team around him, while also bringing in the greatest coach of all time?

What did Wilt win, while he had coaches (that got fired or resigned every year or so) 1960-1965? What did he win before he got great coaches, teammates, ownership, management around him?

Or maybe, just maybe, it's not how great YOU are, but how great your teammates, coaches, management, ownership are?

[Genjuro]

I made an account a month ago, so I am finally here... As a greek, I am biased so there is that, but I have to make the argument why Jokic didnt deserve the MVP last year.
In my opinion a 6th seed MVP because of advanced stats was a disgrace quite frankly.
Lots of people tend to say that Jokic had more wins than the other candidates last year, but the real question is wins against whom ?!
Beating down tanking teams and getting the 6th seed isnt MVP worthy. Who had more wins against teams over 0.500 last year Jokic, Embiid or Giannis ? Everyone seems to forget this part of the equation. Why does it matter ? Well wins against non tanking teams define the tie breakers more than wins against tanking teams.
And no MVP voters should reward 6th seeds . And Perkins had a point, but he wasnt able to express it well quite frankly. There is obviously subconcious bias when it comes to race. I am quite confident that if Devin Booker was asian, he would have won the MVP over Jokic last year with his 65 wins. And same applies to Jokic and his 6th seed MVP win. I dont remember Kobe winning MVPs for taking a a bunch of nobodies to 45 wins. I dont remember CP3 getting an MVP for making the play offs with Dort lol.
None wants to admit it, but a 6th seed back to back MVP was a completely moronic decision.
So now they are giving it to Embiid, even if Jokic deserves it more to make up for the last year's idiocy.

The thing is, whoever was the winner last year, you wouldn't have remembered anything like that before. Like Booker for example would've had the least proportion of games played since Walton in 1978. And the lowest-ranked PER season of an MVP ever. And the lowest-ranked Win Shares season of an MVP ever.

There were no perfect candidates, but Jokic was indeed the less imperfect by far, in part thanks to that white boy called Russell Westbrook setting recent precedent.

[Wolfgang630]

Joker has done more with the least. No matter who wins MVP he’s that great.

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

[dygaction]

Pretty good article here
https://sports.yahoo.com/giannis-antetokounmpo-joel-embiid-nikola-jokic-and-a-blind-look-at-the-nba-mvp-debate-183152159.html?.tsrc=364

Total minutes (percentage of team's total minutes)
Player A: 2,254 (58.9%)
Player B: 2,024 (53.0%)
Player C: 2,296 (60.3%)

Points created (points + assist points created + screen assist points created)
Player A: 3,201
Player B: 3,168
Player C: 3,987

Counting statistics: PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK (per 100 possessions)
Player A: 72.1
Player B: 74.6
Player C: 70.1

Advanced statistics: average finish (PER, WS/48, BPM, RPM, WAR, EPM, DPM, VORP)
Player A: 2.13 (2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd)
Player B: 6.88 (3rd, 9th, 5th, 14th, 8th, 7th, 3rd, 6th)
Player C: 1.25 (1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st)

Scoring efficiency
Player A: 57.1 eFG%, 65.4 TS%
Player B: 57.2 eFG%, 60.5 TS%
Player C: 66.1 eFG%, 70.2 TS%

Shot creation: unassisted field goals made (% of total FGM)
Player A: 267 unassisted FGM (37.1%)
Player B: 404 unassisted FGM (57.1%)
Player C: 241 unassisted FGM (37.4%)

Rim protection (Synergy rank out of 216 players to defend 100+ FGA in restricted area)
Player A: 442 DFGA (4th), 63.8 DFG% (61st)
Player B: 214 DFGA (58th), 55.6 DFG% (10th)
Player C: 436 DFGA (5th), 70.0 DFG% (119th)

Pick-and-roll defense (Synergy rank out of 235 players to defend 200+ screens)
Player A: 2,134 screens defended (5th), 0.96 points per direct PNR possession (57th)
Player B: 937 screens defended (43rd), 0.91 points per direct PNR possession (27th)
Player C: 2,305 screens defended (4th), 1.01 points per direct PNR possession (120th)

Isolation defense (Synergy rank out of 181 players to defend 100+ isolations)
Player A: 132 isolations defended (113th), 0.83 points per direct ISO possession (8th)
Player B: 116 isolations defended (142nd), 0.88 points per direct ISO possession (19th)
Player C: 126 isolations defended (125th), 1.083 points per direct ISO possession (140th)

Team record when in the lineup (winning percentage)
Player A: 43-22 (.662)
Player B: 47-16 (.746)
Player C: 48-20 (.706)

Superlative teammates (current All-Stars, potential All-NBA and potential All-Defense)
Player A: 1
Player B: 2
Player C: 0

On/off differential (via Cleaning the Glass)
Player A: +12.3 (96th percentile)
Player B: +7.5 (88th percentile)
Player C: +26.5 (99th percentile)

On-court ratings
Player A: 119.0 offensive rating, 109.9 defensive rating (9.1 net rating)
Player B: 116.4 offensive rating, 109.2 defensive rating (7.2 net rating)
Player C: 124.3 offensive rating, 111.5 defensive rating (12.8 net rating)

Versus each other's teams (per game)
Player A: 31-11-6 (54.3 TS%); .500 team record (-1.39 net rating)
Player B: 30-13-5 (59.7 TS%); .500 team record (0.71 net rating)
Player C: 26-10-11 (65.3 TS%); 500 team record (10.9 net rating)

Versus .500+ teams (per game)
Player A: 33-11-4 (63.8 TS%); 23-14 team record
Player B: 31-12-6 (59.9 TS%); 26-11 team record
Player C: 25-13-10 (71.7 TS%); 24-11 team record

Clutch (per 100 possessions)

Player A: 47-12-6 (63.7 TS%); 23-13 team record (31.0 net rating)
Player B: 34-13-10 (48.0 TS%); 21-7 team record (-0.7 net rating)
Player C: 40-14-11 (64.9 TS%); 20-9 team record (27.1 net rating)

[zimpy27]

If neither player has ever won MVP then I believe Jokic wins it this season.

Because Jokic has 2, I think Embiid wins it.

The two are close enough for this type of thinking to drive the outcome

[eyeatoma]

https://theathletic.com/4388394/2023/04/07/nba-awards-mvp-roty-most-improved/

Hollinger has Embiid as MVP even though he doesn't have a vote. It's a travesty that he doesn't but the Ringer had 6 last year, like wtf??

[jehosafats]

Watch on YouTube

To hear it put this way, this season does seem like a weird one.

[Bmaasse]

Imagine Jokic winning a third in a row and not winning the chip this year. Instantly becomes THE unrivaled and unprecedentedly accomplished poster boy of magnificent but ultimately meaningless stats in an era of historical stat inflation. The most accomplished loser in NBA history. He would be a walking mockery of the award for years to come until he finally wins something.

Then an asterisk for each year he won “his teammates were awful so he deserves the award” to make sure the RGM Jokic apologists are appeased.

Read on Twitter

"The Rangz! Argument".

Bullsh**, totally LAZY argumentation. Specious and facile.

Michael Jordan through age 27, Playoffs, before they built a dynasty around him:
-Playoffs (53 games)
-Team Record: 24-29
-Team Series Record: 5-6
-3 first round exits, including 2 first round sweeps
-Two ECF

Jordan's line: 36.2/6.9/6.7 on +4.7% rTS. Led all players those years in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs.

Nikola Jokic through age 26, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (48 games)
-Team Record: 21-27
-Team Series Record: 4-4
-1 first round exit
-1 WCF

Jokic's line: 26.4/11.5/6.4 on +4.1 rTS%. Top 3 player in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs those 4 years.

Kevin Garnett through age 27, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 17-30
-Team Series Record: 2-8
-7 first round exits
-1 WCF

Garnett's line: 23.3/13.4/5.0. 2nd in Defensive Rating in the playoffs, those years, among players with 2000 MP. RAPM ranks him as the second most impactful player of 2002-2007 period, overall, in the NBA.

Wilt Chamberlain through age 28, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 21-26
-Team Series Record: 4-5
-Much shorter playoffs structure, so they're incompatible. Still:

Wilt's line: 33.4/26.0/3.2 on +4.7 tTS%. Clearly the MVP in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional box score metrics.

Oscar Robertson through age 31, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (39 games)
-Team Record: 15-24
-Team Series Record: 2-6
-4 first round exits
-2 EDF

Oscar's playoff line: 29.7/9.3/9.4 on an astounding +8.2 rTS%. Clearly, a top 2-3 player overall in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional box score metrics. He had 8 triple doubles in those 39 games, and that's when the assist rule precluded assists if the player receiving the ball dribbled before he took the shot. Much harder to get assists back then vs. today.

What did Michael Jordan win before they built a tremendous team around him, while also bringing in the greatest coach of all time?

What did Wilt win, while he had coaches (that got fired or resigned every year or so) 1960-1965? What did he win before he got great coaches, teammates, ownership, management around him?

Or maybe, just maybe, it's not how great YOU are, but how great your teammates, coaches, management, ownership are?

You spelled "rings" wrong. Also I don't believe think that Jordan, Wilt, or Garnett ever played with a teammate who outscored them and had more assists than they did during a playoff run. If it wasn't for Murray, he'd have 2 MVPs without ever making it past the second round. He's not of the same ilk of those guys that you mentioned, period.

[kuclas]

Jokic played in more wins than Embiid/Giannis last year. The fact that they had better seeding had more to do with their supporting casts and their teams playing well without them.

If you've been reading this forum for a while, you've seen how much Giannis fans were complaining about missing Khris for half the season.

Now imagine if they only had Jrue/Khris for a combined 9 games all season.

Embiid had way better winning percentage in games he played last season and had a higher seed even without his second best player missing for the first 58 games of the season. And embiid himself missed 9 straight games not due to physical injury but bad Covid.

Me personally. I didn’t think Jokic deserved mvp last season and embiid deserved it last season.

But I think Jokic or giannis deserve it over embiid THIS SEASON. Cause both are number 1 seeds although r Jokic team record is similar or same as embiid. Giannis team best record. That’s my opinion.

The Nuggets had 3 less wins than Sixers/Bucks with guys like Campazzo, Will Barton, Jamychal Green, Davon Reed and Austin Rivers playing high minutes.

Those guys are either getting limited time on new teams now or not even in the league. Jokic deserved it last year over any other year. It was the biggest carry job in NBA history.

I hate it when people angle stats to their advantage

What was Jokic winning percentage vs embiid winning percentage last year in games played ?

You can’t compare raw games. If one player plays significantly less.

Or else nba scoring champion would be given to the guy who played most games and average not the highest percentage per game.

Also. Sure Jokic didn’t play with Murray all season and mpj for most of the season

But Simmons didn’t play for the first 58 games before
The harden trade. And Simmons (at the time) was more “valuable” lost to sixers Add to that embiid missed 9 straight games (sixers went 2-7 or something like that). It basically tells you sixers winning percentage with embiid and no Simmons was far greater than Jokic winning percentage without Murray and mpj. Add to the facts half
The sixers team was out weekly with Covid as well. They literally had 3-4 players out with Covid almost the entire first 2 plus months of the season. This was on top of Simmons missing all the games. So it’s not like sixers were healthy either

[Cubbies2120]

You can’t compare raw games. If one player plays significantly less.

I mean that's kinda the point. If you're only available to help your team get mid 40s wins, how valuable are you really?

Durability matters.

[Cubbies2120]

Embiid had way better winning percentage in games he played last season and had a higher seed even without his second best player missing for the first 58 games of the season. And embiid himself missed 9 straight games not due to physical injury but bad Covid.

Me personally. I didn’t think Jokic deserved mvp last season and embiid deserved it last season.

But I think Jokic or giannis deserve it over embiid THIS SEASON. Cause both are number 1 seeds although r Jokic team record is similar or same as embiid. Giannis team best record. That’s my opinion.

The Nuggets had 3 less wins than Sixers/Bucks with guys like Campazzo, Will Barton, Jamychal Green, Davon Reed and Austin Rivers playing high minutes.

Those guys are either getting limited time on new teams now or not even in the league. Jokic deserved it last year over any other year. It was the biggest carry job in NBA history.

I hate it when people angle stats to their advantage

What was Jokic winning percentage vs embiid winning percentage last year in games played ?

You can’t compare raw games. If one player plays significantly less.

Or else nba scoring champion would be given to the guy who played most games and average not the highest percentage per game.

Also. Sure Jokic didn’t play with Murray all season and mpj for most of the season

But Simmons didn’t play for the first 58 games before
The harden trade. And Simmons (at the time) was more “valuable” lost to sixers Add to that embiid missed 9 straight games (sixers went 2-7 or something like that). It basically tells you sixers winning percentage with embiid and no Simmons was far greater than Jokic winning percentage without Murray and mpj. Add to the facts half
The sixers team was out weekly with Covid as well. They literally had 3-4 players out with Covid almost the entire first 2 plus months of the season. This was on top of Simmons missing all the games. So it’s not like sixers were healthy either

The same Simmons that Sixers fans trashed all season saying he was 'garbage' and the reason they lost in the playoffs? That Simmons?

So he's all of a sudden a great player when arguing that Embiid was missing help...interesting.

[ty 4191]

Imagine Jokic winning a third in a row and not winning the chip this year. Instantly becomes THE unrivaled and unprecedentedly accomplished poster boy of magnificent but ultimately meaningless stats in an era of historical stat inflation. The most accomplished loser in NBA history. He would be a walking mockery of the award for years to come until he finally wins something.

Then an asterisk for each year he won “his teammates were awful so he deserves the award” to make sure the RGM Jokic apologists are appeased.

Read on Twitter

"The Rangz! Argument".

Bullsh**, totally LAZY argumentation. Specious and facile.

Michael Jordan through age 27, Playoffs, before they built a dynasty around him:
-Playoffs (53 games)
-Team Record: 24-29
-Team Series Record: 5-6
-3 first round exits, including 2 first round sweeps
-Two ECF

Jordan's line: 36.2/6.9/6.7 on +4.7% rTS. Led all players those years in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs.

Nikola Jokic through age 26, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (48 games)
-Team Record: 21-27
-Team Series Record: 4-4
-1 first round exit
-1 WCF

Jokic's line: 26.4/11.5/6.4 on +4.1 rTS%. Top 3 player in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs those 4 years.

Kevin Garnett through age 27, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 17-30
-Team Series Record: 2-8
-7 first round exits
-1 WCF

Garnett's line: 23.3/13.4/5.0. 2nd in Defensive Rating in the playoffs, those years, among players with 2000 MP. RAPM ranks him as the second most impactful player of 2002-2007 period, overall, in the NBA.

Wilt Chamberlain through age 28, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 21-26
-Team Series Record: 4-5
-Much shorter playoffs structure, so they're incompatible. Still:

Wilt's line: 33.4/26.0/3.2 on +4.7 tTS%. Clearly the MVP in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional box score metrics.

Oscar Robertson through age 31, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (39 games)
-Team Record: 15-24
-Team Series Record: 2-6
-4 first round exits
-2 EDF

Oscar's playoff line: 29.7/9.3/9.4 on an astounding +8.2 rTS%. Clearly, a top 2-3 player overall in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional box score metrics. He had 8 triple doubles in those 39 games, and that's when the assist rule precluded assists if the player receiving the ball dribbled before he took the shot. Much harder to get assists back then vs. today.

What did Michael Jordan win before they built a tremendous team around him, while also bringing in the greatest coach of all time?

What did Wilt win, while he had coaches (that got fired or resigned every year or so) 1960-1965? What did he win before he got great coaches, teammates, ownership, management around him?

Or maybe, just maybe, it's not how great YOU are, but how great your teammates, coaches, management, ownership are?

You spelled "rings" wrong. Also I don't believe think that Jordan, Wilt, or Garnett ever played with a teammate who outscored them and had more assists than they did during a playoff run. If it wasn't for Murray, he'd have 2 MVPs without ever making it past the second round. He's not of the same ilk of those guys that you mentioned, period.

How many other guys have averaged 26/11/6 in the playoffs in NBA history in the playoffs, career?

I won't hold my breath. It's zero. Just Jokic. And he's done it on tremendous efficiency.

[Bmaasse]

Read on Twitter

"The Rangz! Argument".

Bullsh**, totally LAZY argumentation. Specious and facile.

Michael Jordan through age 27, Playoffs, before they built a dynasty around him:
-Playoffs (53 games)
-Team Record: 24-29
-Team Series Record: 5-6
-3 first round exits, including 2 first round sweeps
-Two ECF

Jordan's line: 36.2/6.9/6.7 on +4.7% rTS. Led all players those years in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs.

Nikola Jokic through age 26, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (48 games)
-Team Record: 21-27
-Team Series Record: 4-4
-1 first round exit
-1 WCF

Jokic's line: 26.4/11.5/6.4 on +4.1 rTS%. Top 3 player in all advanced and traditional metrics in the playoffs those 4 years.

Kevin Garnett through age 27, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 17-30
-Team Series Record: 2-8
-7 first round exits
-1 WCF

Garnett's line: 23.3/13.4/5.0. 2nd in Defensive Rating in the playoffs, those years, among players with 2000 MP. RAPM ranks him as the second most impactful player of 2002-2007 period, overall, in the NBA.

Wilt Chamberlain through age 28, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (47 games)
-Team Record: 21-26
-Team Series Record: 4-5
-Much shorter playoffs structure, so they're incompatible. Still:

Wilt's line: 33.4/26.0/3.2 on +4.7 tTS%. Clearly the MVP in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional box score metrics.

Oscar Robertson through age 31, Playoffs:
-Playoffs: (39 games)
-Team Record: 15-24
-Team Series Record: 2-6
-4 first round exits
-2 EDF

Oscar's playoff line: 29.7/9.3/9.4 on an astounding +8.2 rTS%. Clearly, a top 2-3 player overall in the playoffs in all advanced and traditional box score metrics. He had 8 triple doubles in those 39 games, and that's when the assist rule precluded assists if the player receiving the ball dribbled before he took the shot. Much harder to get assists back then vs. today.

What did Michael Jordan win before they built a tremendous team around him, while also bringing in the greatest coach of all time?

What did Wilt win, while he had coaches (that got fired or resigned every year or so) 1960-1965? What did he win before he got great coaches, teammates, ownership, management around him?

Or maybe, just maybe, it's not how great YOU are, but how great your teammates, coaches, management, ownership are?

You spelled "rings" wrong. Also I don't believe think that Jordan, Wilt, or Garnett ever played with a teammate who outscored them and had more assists than they did during a playoff run. If it wasn't for Murray, he'd have 2 MVPs without ever making it past the second round. He's not of the same ilk of those guys that you mentioned, period.

How many guys have averaged 26/11/6 in the playoffs in NBA history in the playoffs, career?

I won't hold my breath. It's zero. Just Jokic. And he's done it on tremendous efficiency.

Ok, but what about his defense compared to those other guys you mentioned? Also, I question his leadership abilities. Doesn't seem like he has what it takes to motivate the guys around him like some of the all time greats.

[ty 4191]

Ok, but what about his defense compared to those other guys you mentioned? Also, I question his leadership abilities. Doesn't seem like he has what it takes to motivate the guys around him like some of the all time greats.

Rings are a TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Once again:

Read on Twitter

How many championships do you expect Jokic's teams to have won with THAT supporting cast?

[ANTETOKOUNBROS]

Ok, but what about his defense compared to those other guys you mentioned? Also, I question his leadership abilities. Doesn't seem like he has what it takes to motivate the guys around him like some of the all time greats.

Rings are a TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Once again:

Read on Twitter

How many championships do you expect Jokic's teams to have won with THAT supporting cast?

Rings matter or at least a long and deep history of consistent playoff runs if talking all time greats. Being a winner is important in the legacy conversation especially comparing multiple time MVPs. Then how you win those chips matter as well eg. Giannis' ring is worth more than KDs rings in that discussion.

Remember, the NBA is more star driven as far as success of team than any other professional sport as well. You NEED MVP caliber players to take you anywhere, so its definitely more fair to use winning rings as a factor when comparing the top echelon of NBA greats. This is not baseball or football.

Jokic has a great supporting cast talent wise, they are young up and comers or just entering their prime. Injury makes them unreliable but doesn't make them poor talents. Murray, Porter and Gordon are at worst, fringe all-star caliber players in terms of potential. When they play, they are pretty damn good and important pieces who are getting better. Reality is Murray and Porter both have all-NBA team upside and they are young enough to see the horizon of that if they stay healthy. Jokic isn't playing with 40 year old Kyle Korvers like you all make it seem. Either way, it's Jokic's team and as a multiple time MVP, if he continues to never win it makes him not look like a winner from a legacy standpoint and puts focus on his flaws as to why he couldn't elevate his team in the needed ways when it mattered most. He could be like Nowitski or like Nash. How much better does Dirk's legacy look with possibly one of the greatest championships in NBA history as the best player on that team? I put him over Jokic because of it, over Barkley, Malone and Nash etc. Is anyone taking 2 time MVP Nash over 1 time MVP Dirk? You get the idea.

Nash also had so much more talent than Dirk ever had around him on his prime Sun teams and still failed to even get to the Finals. Dirk took a team of over the hill players and beat the Heatles.

[Cubbies2120]

Sixers with zero starters beating a full Hawks squad that's actually good at home. Add another W to Embiid's MVP resume (he didn't make the trip to Atlanta, but cheered hard from home!).

See why I keep mentioning "wins played by MVP candidate"? Looking at raw team record rewards wins like these as wins by the MVP candidate.

[Wolfgang630]

Sixers with zero starters beating a full Hawks squad that's actually good at home. Add another W to Embiid's MVP resume (he didn't make the trip to Atlanta, but cheered hard from home!).

See why I keep mentioning "wins played by MVP candidate"? Looking at raw team record rewards wins like these as wins by the MVP candidate.

The media wants him to win mvp. It is what it is. I know he’s not the most valuable. The proof has been there in the records with and without them.

[HotRocks34]

Sixers with zero starters beating a full Hawks squad that's actually good at home. Add another W to Embiid's MVP resume (he didn't make the trip to Atlanta, but cheered hard from home!).

See why I keep mentioning "wins played by MVP candidate"? Looking at raw team record rewards wins like these as wins by the MVP candidate.

Yeah, it looks like Philly will end up with a better record than Denver. That gives voters an easier time making Embiid their selection.

[eyeatoma]

Sixers with zero starters beating a full Hawks squad that's actually good at home. Add another W to Embiid's MVP resume (he didn't make the trip to Atlanta, but cheered hard from home!).

See why I keep mentioning "wins played by MVP candidate"? Looking at raw team record rewards wins like these as wins by the MVP candidate.

You forget that Doc is the goat coach with the skeleton crew. Also got Gleague finals MVP Jalen Springer who played. Think Marcus Smart or prime Avery Bradley if he reaches his potential.

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