Pistons-Pacers (7pm)

[keepitrealhomes]

Killian slander will not be tolerated today. The kid belongs in the league, and I hope we have the best 3 guard rotation in the league for the next decade.

[440BB]

Jalen Duren and the Elbows of Doom, coming soon to a theater near you.

[TPA]

I hope fans won't be saying next year is Cade's 3rd season. It will be his 2nd year of nba experience, just like this is Killians 2nd year, same for Wiseman. What matters is how much on-court experience you have. So be ready to see YouTube channels making statements how how Cade has been in the league 3 years now whenever he has a bad game. The Cade haters will spout that constantly.

Cade needs to come out next year like a beast. He's a #1 draft pick. He had a great rookie year. he suffered an injury that he could have probably come back from this year if the team weren't actively tanking. He's gonna have a full off-season and training camp. If he's the real deal, he needs to fulfill his potential and be better than anyone expects.

[bstein14]

As far as his contract goes, Cade is in his 3rd season next year. We're going to have to decide after next year whether or not to give him a 5 years $200 million rookie max contract extension.... is he worth locking up for $40 million per year? Better show it this upcoming season.

[Pistonrings]

It's strange to think that at the start of next season, Ivey and Duren will have more NBA experience than Cade. I hope this misfortune pays dividends down the road with their accelerated development.

If the Pistons end up with a top 2 pick, the injury may be looked back on as the thing that created a monster of a team.

There is a ton of young talent on this team, and adding yet another top pick and then possibly a new coach to go with it, is exciting as hell.

Agree. I hate tanking but once Cade went down, it really was the obvious thing to do imo. You could just let Ivey play good minutes and let him learn since he will be one of the top 2 or 3 players on this team going forward. We let him experiment and find for himself what it will take to be great and we were able to get losses (suffer losses) and it doesn't hurt that the draft has what may be 2 generational players. We will get someone that will help, even at 5 one of the twins will be available and either would be a nice asset for the future.

We are almost done with this misery. The win is just a nice way for Weaver to give us the message that it was a tank, now we can go on the road and win.

[Uncle Mxy]

Fun game so far, other than Mt Duren taking out another frontline comrade sigh.

Care to elaborate?

Oh it was accidental, Duren came down with an elbow on Wisemens head, total accident but he's out.

Taking out Wiseman was totally intentional, dude!. We were -14 in his 7 minutes of play. Duren did the needful.

[Moses ShamMoses]

Dang man, when Killian Hayes has a nice shooting night he looks like a complete player. Just a stud, but it only happens 1 out of every 10+ games. If he ever became a good shooter (I know pie in the sky), he'd be really really good.

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[bstein14]

Dang man, when Killian Hayes has a nice shooting night he looks like a complete player. Just a stud, but it only happens 1 out of every 10+ games. If he ever became a good shooter (I know pie in the sky), he'd be really really good.

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Two things and he's a solid backup PG.

#1 Catch and shoot 3s he was ok on... below average but ok. Needs to get slightly better there but not asking anything crazy. Needs to cut back on his off the dribble threes because he's horrible on those.... just focus on the catch and shoot ones coming from Cade, Ivey, Bojan, etc.

#2 Pick and roll he needs to be able to come off a screen and hit a 15-17 ft jumper near the FT line or elbow. That's a big one because if he can't keep the defense honest on a pick and roll he's never going to be able to effectively(efficiently) be able to run them.

If he can work on those two things he'll have a place in the league.

[Moses ShamMoses]

I still believe that Killian Hayes can be a solid backup point guard even with minor, incremental improvement going forward. He's got good size for the point guard position, accurate passer, understands how to run an offense, plays hard on defense with quick hands. I think he'll be in the NBA a long time if he's ok making <$5M per year.

Now if he can just be an average shooter/scorer (mostly talking consistency) for an NBA guard he's a starter for a lot of teams because he does so many other things above average

[flow]

I still believe that Killian Hayes can be a solid backup point guard even with minor, incremental improvement going forward. He's got good size for the point guard position, accurate passer, understands how to run an offense, plays hard on defense with quick hands. I think he'll be in the NBA a long time if he's ok making <$5M per year.

Now if he can just be an average shooter/scorer (mostly talking consistency) for an NBA guard he's a starter for a lot of teams because he does so many other things above average

It's not just his shooting. He's slow. And he can't get to the rim.

Rondo can't shoot. But what he can do is break his man down and get to the rim, whether to score or play-make.

Billups was kinda slow and couldn't really get to the rack on his own. But he could shoot.

If you can't do either, you're not worth much at all.

[Crymson]

I still believe that Killian Hayes can be a solid backup point guard even with minor, incremental improvement going forward. He's got good size for the point guard position, accurate passer, understands how to run an offense, plays hard on defense with quick hands. I think he'll be in the NBA a long time if he's ok making <$5M per year.

Now if he can just be an average shooter/scorer (mostly talking consistency) for an NBA guard he's a starter for a lot of teams because he does so many other things above average

The fact that he pathologically avoids contact and therefore avoids driving into contact and therefore cannot penetrate and therefore cannot break down opposing defenses does not show up on the scoresheet. That sharply reduces the value of his playmaking. He also can't score efficiently anywhere within the perimeter at all, let alone find himself high-efficiency offense at the rim and get himself to the free throw line. All of this makes him unfitting both for a starting role on anything but a horrible team and for even a backup role as a point guard on a good team.

If he can become a good perimeter shooter, he's got a future in the NBA. If he can both do that and become a reliable interior scorer, he can play point guard. Those aren't incremental improvements. He's currently a horrible shooter (22.6% on catch-and-shoot threes in 2023) and the worst overall scorer getting significant minutes in the NBA.

Killian slander will not be tolerated today. The kid belongs in the league, and I hope we have the best 3 guard rotation in the league for the next decade.

If we know anything about judging players, it's that we should totally judge them on the basis of one good game---particularly when it's a single instance amongst a large sample size of horrible games!

The correctness of judging on the basis of one game is proven by the fact that, after his 51-point performance against the Magic, Bey has had an excellent season as an efficient 25 PPG scorer and is on his way to a max extension this summer.

[Homelander87]

Ivey is starting to become a beast and has a higher ceiling than Cade. The question I have for everyone is….who’s the better athlete Jaden Ivey or Jalen Green?

Jalen has more explosiveness vertically, but Ivey might be the fastest guy in the league. He has an incredible quick-twitch to him that we’ve never really seen in a pistons uniform

That windmill dunk Ivey put down was pretty incredible.

[tmorgan]

Believe me, I want to have faith in Killian’s future, but I cannot, for the reasons many have stated. That said, he’s back next year barring drafting Scoot and making a “dump him” trade, so….

Remember his first off-season, when asked what he worked on, his answer was “defense”? Well, this off-season better be “shooting”. He’s not quick enough to do what Ivey does, penetrate and draw contact. If he’s an average jump shooter — and he’s quite far from that right now — he can stick. He still won’t be anything but a pretty good backup if he can shoot, because he can’t stay in front of real speed and he can’t work in the lane, But he can pass, he is big, and he does have marvelous hands on defense.

If you want to watch another player drafted in a similar position with similar issues (who I also like), watch Dyson Daniels in New Orleans. He’s on a more talented team (that still disappointed, and has injury issues), and is a big guard that can play defense but can’t score. He’s taller, but less stocky, and his future is up in the air after a less-than-awesome rookie year. It’s a hard path when you’re offensively challenged at guard.

[tmorgan]

Changing topics… despite Math starting out stronger, Ivey is finishing the season with slightly better numbers. Mathurin either does not or cannot pass — 1.4 apg in that many minutes is crazy, even for his role.

[Crymson]

Ivey is starting to become a beast and has a higher ceiling than Cade.

I don't think Jaden's BBIQ ceiling is anywhere near Cade's. That's no criticism of Jaden, who is best suited as a secondary playmaker; Cade is an exceptionally smart player, and it tells in how he conducts himself on the court.

The question I have for everyone is….who’s the better athlete Jaden Ivey or Jalen Green?

Green. Ivey is extremely athletic as a mover on the floor, but he's got nothing like Green's leaping ability, agility, or ability to change directions.

[Sort]

I enjoyed imagining Hayes as a shooter. I don't ever see him on the attack to the rim or creating off the bounce by attacking the lanes, but if he was a league average shooter that could have nights where he could hit thirty, he's a solid player in this league, far more than he is currently. I didn't watch tons of the game, but from I saw, Indy looked like a sixth period student on the Friday before summer break. I don't know how serious to take that game.

I'm curious for next year to see Cade and Ivey. They still theoretically could compliment one another, but they need lights out shooters with them. I thought Ivey learning to have a midrange game is great. He may not have Green's fluidity or agility, but I also think he'll be able to just punish people at the rim. That should allow him to get solid midrange looks. I thought Ivey got more efficient as the year progresses, a better understanding of space. If Cade and Ivey can both make leaps in that regard next year, no matter who the Pistons draft, this will be a much better team that shoot up offensively.

[mattao313]

Changing topics… despite Math starting out stronger, Ivey is finishing the season with slightly better numbers. Mathurin either does not or cannot pass — 1.4 apg in that many minutes is crazy, even for his role.

He's a 6th man sparkplug unless he can playmake better he also sucks on defense as well. Ivey has his warts but I 100% think he's more talented.

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[mattao313]

I enjoyed imagining Hayes as a shooter. I don't ever see him on the attack to the rim or creating off the bounce by attacking the lanes, but if he was a league average shooter that could have nights where he could hit thirty, he's a solid player in this league, far more than he is currently. I didn't watch tons of the game, but from I saw, Indy looked like a sixth period student on the Friday before summer break. I don't know how serious to take that game.

I'm curious for next year to see Cade and Ivey. They still theoretically could compliment one another, but they need lights out shooters with them. I thought Ivey learning to have a midrange game is great. He may not have Green's fluidity or agility, but I also think he'll be able to just punish people at the rim. That should allow him to get solid midrange looks. I thought Ivey got more efficient as the year progresses, a better understanding of space. If Cade and Ivey can both make leaps in that regard next year, no matter who the Pistons draft, this will be a much better team that shoot up offensively.

I'm done with the Killian Hayes experiment. We got our 2 guards and he doesn't compliment them to be in a 3 guard rotation can't shoot and is useless without the ball. No way am I going to take the ball out of cade or ivey hands for Killian. Don't know why we picked up that option he has shown minimal progression.

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[Kalamazoo317]

Jalen Duren and the Elbows of Doom, coming soon to a theater near you.

He might need to get those registered as deadly weapons after this one!

Nice to see them break the losing streak before the season ends.