**The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two**

UnFadeable21 · Post #241 » by **UnFadeable21** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:35 am

?s=46&t=agH1niztkujZdnBjj-2YZg

Colbinii · Post #242 » by **Colbinii** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:21 pm

UnFadeable21 wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=agH1niztkujZdnBjj-2YZg

I'm sure LeBron James would have liked to be seen as a one franchise guy too but it requires the franchise to consistently put talent around you.

Remember, Duncan almost left San Antonio to go to Orlando and play with TRACY.

On the brightside ANT/McDaniels should [in theory] be able to keep the team competitive around Towns for the next 5 years.

shrink · Post #243 » by **shrink** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:34 pm

Colbinii wrote:
UnFadeable21 wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=agH1niztkujZdnBjj-2YZg

I'm sure LeBron James would have liked to be seen as a one franchise guy too but it requires the franchise to consistently put talent around you.

Remember, Duncan almost left San Antonio to go to Orlando and play with TRACY.

On the brightside ANT/McDaniels should [in theory] be able to keep the team competitive around Towns for the next 5 years.

Yes, and it’s almost impossible for any team’s oscillating goals over the years to consistently match any players.

Bad teams get top draft picks, which are the most likely spots for potential rookie stars. The first few years, the player is learning to compete in the NBA, and it usually takes a few years of rebuilding, so its’s a good match. As the star begins to be able to become a top 20 player, maybe in Year 4, the team starts to become competitive, and for the next few years, player and team still match.

But after that, it gets more difficult. Teams who want to win a championship trade draft picks and youth to rebuilding teams for older, win-now talent. The younger players that remain get less developmental time, and even when they get on the court, are quickly yanked because winning games is so important. Good vet players get new, expensive deals, so it’s harder to have depth. Championship windows don’t stay open for long, and eventually the team needs to rebuild, where an expensive, vet star is far more valuable to a team who’s trying to win.

We still have hold outs like Damian Lillard and Bradley Beal, but both teams demonstrate how hard it is to either make a championship run, or tank and get quality picks, when you have a vet star player on a hollow roster, continually keeping the team stuck in the worst place .. the middle.

Anyway, I am happy to hear KAT hopes to stay here, but no matter how strong that feeling is, it’s likely to reach a point where it makes more sense for him, and the franchise, to part ways. That’s just the standard timeline for an NBA team.

Colbinii · Post #244 » by **Colbinii** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:45 pm

shrink wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
UnFadeable21 wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=agH1niztkujZdnBjj-2YZg

I'm sure LeBron James would have liked to be seen as a one franchise guy too but it requires the franchise to consistently put talent around you.

Remember, Duncan almost left San Antonio to go to Orlando and play with TRACY.

On the brightside ANT/McDaniels should [in theory] be able to keep the team competitive around Towns for the next 5 years.

Yes, and it’s almost impossible for any team’s oscillating goals over the years to consistently match any players.

Bad teams get top draft picks, which are the most likely spots for potential rookie stars. The first few years, the player is learning to compete in the NBA, and it usually takes a few years of rebuilding, so its’s a good match. As the star begins to be able to become a top 20 player, maybe in Year 4, the team starts to become competitive, and for the next few years, player and team still match.

But after that, it gets more difficult. Teams who want to win a championship trade draft picks and youth to rebuilding teams for older, win-now talent. The younger players that remain get less developmental time, and even when they get on the court, are quickly yanked because winning games is so important. Good vet players get new, expensive deals, so it’s harder to have depth. Championship windows don’t stay open for long, and eventually the team needs to rebuild, where an expensive, vet star is far more valuable to a team who’s trying to win.

We still have hold outs like Damian Lillard and Bradley Beal, but both teams demonstrate how hard it is to either make a championship run, or tank and get quality picks, when you have a vet star player on a hollow roster, continually keeping the team stuck in the worst place .. the middle.

Anyway, I am happy to hear KAT hopes to stay here, but no matter how strong that feeling is, it’s likely to reach a point where it makes more sense for him, and the franchise, to part ways. That’s just the standard timeline for an NBA team.

Yup--the Beal and Lillard example are excellent. Another one that hurts is Garnett. There are so many what-ifs with KG [Joe Smith trade losing multiple 1sts, keeping Ray Allen and/or Chauncey Billups] and realizing that all you need to compete with Prime KG is a Sam Cassell-level player [That's what, a Top 25-30 guy?].

The Warriors are the luckiest franchise in NBA History. Curry has a few injury issues early, resulting in him signing a significantly below market rate [he never should have done that as he was already a star]. After a great hire in Steve Kerr [Would any other coach not just gave the ball to Curry since he is tremendous with the ball and not realize the vastness of his off-ball abilities?] they end up having a ton of cap space because of how the NBA distributed its TV Money all in one off-season [never seeing that again] and landing KD.

shrink · Post #245 » by **shrink** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:54 pm

Colbinii wrote:Yup--the Beal and Lillard example are excellent. Another one that hurts is Garnett. There are so many what-ifs with KG [Joe Smith trade losing multiple 1sts, keeping Ray Allen and/or Chauncey Billups] and realizing that all you need to compete with Prime KG is a Sam Cassell-level player [That's what, a Top 25-30 guy?].

Yeah, I almost mentioned Garnett. KG was so good that the franchise had three chances

The KG, Marbury, Wally run of the young lottery stars

The KG, Cassell, Sprewell run of prime vets.

The third chance was a Hail Mary. MIN didn’t have trade assets left, after losing the 1sts, and KG getting us to the playoffs to devalue the picks we did have, and hadn’t traded. If we wanted to keep winning, we had to hope that injury risk big contracts of Ricky Davis and Marc Blount could have career years - those were the only players we had the assets to trade for. And both failed - but what can you expect for “free?”

There was a potential fourth chance, trading future picks for the last legs of Allen Iverson. But the franchise realized it was time to move on - better for MIN and frankly KG - if Garnett was traded. He was angry, but I’ll tell you — I’m just grateful he got a ring, even if it wasn’t here. He deserved it.

shrink · Post #246 » by **shrink** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:59 pm

And let me point out - regardless of what the Wolves PR department says, the extension wasn’t signed to make sure Towns would be here through 2027 or 2028.

If we’re going for championships for five years, that’s great, but the extension is to have Towns’ contract under team control for all that time. That way, we can trade him if we reach a point down the road where his goals and the team’s diverge, instead of having him just walk for nothing.

Post #247 » by **Calinks** » Wed Apr 5, 2023 3:59 pm

I'm finally coming to terms with being ok trading KAT. Although he's a tremendously talented player and wants to win, I don't think he has the right mental makeup to be the leader we need on this team. Over the past few seasons, his emotions have often dictated his game, resulting in numerous little mistakes and bad plays due to his constant anger towards referees.

While he's done everything asked of him and has been a good soldier, he brings outside issues upon himself with his statements and behavior, which have a negative impact on the team. I believe he would thrive on a new team where he could contribute without being "The guy" and feeling pressure to be the face of the franchise, which can be overwhelming when compared to MVP-level players like Jokic and Embiid.

If he were to play for a team like Portland, alongside players like Damian Lillard or Luka Doncic, he could easily fit in and shine without feeling like he has to lead. A fresh start would allow him to work on his attitude and embrace his new role.

Here on our team, I feel he's too comfortable being himself and trying to lead, without really excelling at it. Moving to a different situation would give him a clean slate and the opportunity to start anew.

I see his career trending upwards in a new environment, much like Wiggins did. The current version of Towns doesn't fit well with the direction our team has pivoted towards, but he could have worked well in last year's Wolves squad with additional help. However, I don't think he complements Gobert's style of play well.

Post #248 » by **Klomp** » Wed Apr 5, 2023 6:45 pm

Calinks wrote:I'm finally coming to terms with being ok trading KAT. Although he's a tremendously talented player and wants to win, I don't think he has the right mental makeup to be the leader we need on this team. Over the past few seasons, his emotions have often dictated his game, resulting in numerous little mistakes and bad plays due to his constant anger towards referees.

While he's done everything asked of him and has been a good soldier, he brings outside issues upon himself with his statements and behavior, which have a negative impact on the team. I believe he would thrive on a new team where he could contribute without being "The guy" and feeling pressure to be the face of the franchise, which can be overwhelming when compared to MVP-level players like Jokic and Embiid.

This right here is 100%.

shrink often points out (correctly) how important Towns' spacing is as a secondary option to help create room for Anthony Edwards. The flip side of the coin is that while he has spoken a willingness to be a secondary option on the court, he hasn't shown a willingness to be a secondary voice for the team. While Edwards has taken over as the No. 1 option, Towns still feels the need to be the vocal leader...with the media, with the coaches, with his teammates and with the referees.

This is why I stated previously that we might need to have a clean break. I don't think this mentality will change as long as he's in Minnesota.

Post #249 » by **Klomp** » Fri Apr 7, 2023 7:06 pm

Read on Twitter

Neeva · Post #250 » by **Neeva** » Fri Apr 7, 2023 7:25 pm

Calinks wrote:I'm finally coming to terms with being ok trading KAT. Although he's a tremendously talented player and wants to win, I don't think he has the right mental makeup to be the leader we need on this team. Over the past few seasons, his emotions have often dictated his game, resulting in numerous little mistakes and bad plays due to his constant anger towards referees.

While he's done everything asked of him and has been a good soldier, he brings outside issues upon himself with his statements and behavior, which have a negative impact on the team. I believe he would thrive on a new team where he could contribute without being "The guy" and feeling pressure to be the face of the franchise, which can be overwhelming when compared to MVP-level players like Jokic and Embiid.

If he were to play for a team like Portland, alongside players like Damian Lillard or Luka Doncic, he could easily fit in and shine without feeling like he has to lead. A fresh start would allow him to work on his attitude and embrace his new role.

Here on our team, I feel he's too comfortable being himself and trying to lead, without really excelling at it. Moving to a different situation would give him a clean slate and the opportunity to start anew.

I see his career trending upwards in a new environment, much like Wiggins did. The current version of Towns doesn't fit well with the direction our team has pivoted towards, but he could have worked well in last year's Wolves squad with additional help. However, I don't think he complements Gobert's style of play well.

I think also Kat was hailed as the timberwolves savior like Giannis for the Bucks. Both were seen as biggest superstars under 25 at one point and had highest trade value but since then Giannis has been MVP and won the Bucks a title and Kat has…
He needs a change of scenery and wolves need to cash in now before his value keeps sliding downward here.

urinesane · Post #251 » by **urinesane** » Fri Apr 7, 2023 7:34 pm

Neeva wrote:
Calinks wrote:I'm finally coming to terms with being ok trading KAT. Although he's a tremendously talented player and wants to win, I don't think he has the right mental makeup to be the leader we need on this team. Over the past few seasons, his emotions have often dictated his game, resulting in numerous little mistakes and bad plays due to his constant anger towards referees.

While he's done everything asked of him and has been a good soldier, he brings outside issues upon himself with his statements and behavior, which have a negative impact on the team. I believe he would thrive on a new team where he could contribute without being "The guy" and feeling pressure to be the face of the franchise, which can be overwhelming when compared to MVP-level players like Jokic and Embiid.

If he were to play for a team like Portland, alongside players like Damian Lillard or Luka Doncic, he could easily fit in and shine without feeling like he has to lead. A fresh start would allow him to work on his attitude and embrace his new role.

Here on our team, I feel he's too comfortable being himself and trying to lead, without really excelling at it. Moving to a different situation would give him a clean slate and the opportunity to start anew.

I see his career trending upwards in a new environment, much like Wiggins did. The current version of Towns doesn't fit well with the direction our team has pivoted towards, but he could have worked well in last year's Wolves squad with additional help. However, I don't think he complements Gobert's style of play well.

I think also Kat was hailed as the timberwolves savior like Giannis for the Bucks. Both were seen as biggest superstars under 25 at one point and had highest trade value but since then Giannis has been MVP and won the Bucks a title and Kat has…
He needs a change of scenery and wolves need to cash in now before his value keeps sliding downward here.

Coming off a 52 game missed injury season? That seems like the definition of selling low.

Neeva · Post #252 » by **Neeva** » Fri Apr 7, 2023 10:28 pm

Im afraid it could get even lower though tbh.

Post #253 » by **Calinks** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 12:02 am

Neeva wrote:
Calinks wrote:I'm finally coming to terms with being ok trading KAT. Although he's a tremendously talented player and wants to win, I don't think he has the right mental makeup to be the leader we need on this team. Over the past few seasons, his emotions have often dictated his game, resulting in numerous little mistakes and bad plays due to his constant anger towards referees.

While he's done everything asked of him and has been a good soldier, he brings outside issues upon himself with his statements and behavior, which have a negative impact on the team. I believe he would thrive on a new team where he could contribute without being "The guy" and feeling pressure to be the face of the franchise, which can be overwhelming when compared to MVP-level players like Jokic and Embiid.

If he were to play for a team like Portland, alongside players like Damian Lillard or Luka Doncic, he could easily fit in and shine without feeling like he has to lead. A fresh start would allow him to work on his attitude and embrace his new role.

Here on our team, I feel he's too comfortable being himself and trying to lead, without really excelling at it. Moving to a different situation would give him a clean slate and the opportunity to start anew.

I see his career trending upwards in a new environment, much like Wiggins did. The current version of Towns doesn't fit well with the direction our team has pivoted towards, but he could have worked well in last year's Wolves squad with additional help. However, I don't think he complements Gobert's style of play well.

I think also Kat was hailed as the timberwolves savior like Giannis for the Bucks. Both were seen as biggest superstars under 25 at one point and had highest trade value but since then Giannis has been MVP and won the Bucks a title and Kat has…
He needs a change of scenery and wolves need to cash in now before his value keeps sliding downward here.

In his first couple of years I saw Towns as a generational talent. I thought he was like, another KG. He seemed to have no cap on his ability to score and he was talked about as being a guy who could run up and down the floor and defend.

I started to get away from the generational talent part but I still felt he was going to be one of the best players in the NBA. The last few years are really what have soured me. I still think he is a great player and I still think he has all the talent in the world but his maturity/BBIQ has seemed like such a problem in recent years. I never got frustrated with it before but I feel like its gotten so bad.

All the offensive fouls, the complaining, its just draining the fun out of the games for me. I think that he could just be better at the mental stuff, it would elevate him so much but he doesn't seem to be able to get past it.

Post #254 » by **Klomp** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 12:13 am

He's the current era's LaMarcus Aldridge.

Post #255 » by **Mamba4Goat** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 4:38 am

Klomp wrote:He's the current era's LaMarcus Aldridge.

Demarcus Cousins*

Note30 · Post #256 » by **Note30** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 8:15 pm

Neeva wrote:Im afraid it could get even lower though tbh.

That's ridiculous. Barring some catastrophic injury he'll be fine.

Note30 · Post #257 » by **Note30** » Sat Apr 8, 2023 8:17 pm

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/271097/Mavericks-Fear-Potential-Luka-Doncic-Trade-Request-As-Early-As-2024-Offseason

Hold onto KAT till next offseason, pair him with the 2024 pick and 2028 pick swap and get Luka.

We need to get some good low value players this offseason to make that jump tho.

I'm more in the boat of let's make a couple of small good moves this offseason rather than dump KAT.

I'd try to get Jaden's brother and Dennis Schroeder on 3 year contracts.

If all goes well and we can make that move next summer and resign our peeps our roster will look monstrous.

Doncic/Conley/Schroeder
Ant/ NAW
McDaniels / Prince
Anderson /Other McDaniels
Gobert/Reid

We'd have the best offensive backcourt and one of the best defensive front courts with multiple key players off the bench in Conley, Schroeder, Prince and Reid, and two hustle guys in NAW and Other McDaniels.

If that team cant win the Finals then this team is just cursed.

Post #258 » by **Domejandro** » Sun Apr 9, 2023 12:47 pm

Note30 wrote:Hold onto KAT till next offseason, pair him with the 2024 pick and 2028 pick swap and get Luka.

If Dallas is trading Luka, they are getting a lot better than that offer. It starts at Anthony Edwards (emphasis on “starts”).

Note30 · Post #259 » by **Note30** » Sun Apr 9, 2023 4:39 pm

Domejandro wrote:
Note30 wrote:Hold onto KAT till next offseason, pair him with the 2024 pick and 2028 pick swap and get Luka.

If Dallas is trading Luka, they are getting a lot better than that offer. It starts at Anthony Edwards (emphasis on “starts”).

One year of Luka is not going to be worth Edwards.

I'd like to see you try to find a better offer from any team for a potential one year rental.

Atlanta: Murray + 2 picks
Boston: Brown + 3 picks
Brooklyn: Claxton + 6 picks? (absolutely bananas numbers but let's say it's true
NOP: Ingram + 4 picks
Thunder: Holmgren + like 400 picks

Maybe NOP, OKC could beat us but outside of that I don't think there are any other teams. If we could include the 2031 UFRP I would do it, but probably not possible.

Also giving up that many picks for a 1 year rental? Seems a bit overkill. I do think we'd have one of the better offers in the market.

I think if given the choice out of those teams and ours Luka would probably opt for us, except for Boston.

GopherIt! · Post #260 » by **GopherIt!** » Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:42 am

shrink wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Yup--the Beal and Lillard example are excellent. Another one that hurts is Garnett. There are so many what-ifs with KG [Joe Smith trade losing multiple 1sts, keeping Ray Allen and/or Chauncey Billups] and realizing that all you need to compete with Prime KG is a Sam Cassell-level player [That's what, a Top 25-30 guy?].

Yeah, I almost mentioned Garnett. KG was so good that the franchise had three chances

The KG, Marbury, Wally run of the young lottery stars

The KG, Cassell, Sprewell run of prime vets.

The third chance was a Hail Mary. MIN didn’t have trade assets left, after losing the 1sts, and KG getting us to the playoffs to devalue the picks we did have, and hadn’t traded. If we wanted to keep winning, we had to hope that injury risk big contracts of Ricky Davis and Marc Blount could have career years - those were the only players we had the assets to trade for. And both failed - but what can you expect for “free?”

There was a potential fourth chance, trading future picks for the last legs of Allen Iverson. But the franchise realized it was time to move on - better for MIN and frankly KG - if Garnett was traded. He was angry, but I’ll tell you — I’m just grateful he got a ring, even if it wasn’t here. He deserved it.

Losing Chauncey hurt.

If McFale just knew how to draft:

1996 - draft/keep Ray Allen, Kobe, Peja, Nash (Marbury)
1999 - draft Rip Hamilton, A Miller, Marion, J Terry (Wally)
2003 - draft Josh Howard (Ndudi Phucking Ebi)
2005 - draft Danny Granger (McCants)
2006 - draft/keep Brandon Roy (Foye)
2007 - draft Joakim Noah (C Brewer)