Markelle Fultz

[Skin]

Elfird and Markelle always being compared to each other is such a lazy comparison. Markelle doesn't get rattled in big time situations. He has a quiet confidence about him and he can fly where stars fly. I was very harsh on Elfrid, but I gave him a chance. Once he got to a point where his limitations hurt the team and his improvement stopped. I was done. Markelle is still improving. Still showing us new things and his mind is unbreakable. I trust him.

Just like I trust that Paolo will improve his 3pt shot. But I may scare ya'll cause I also trust Jonathan Isaac to become a strong X factor for us.

[eyriq]

I've got a theory that Fultz's poor on-court impact is confounded with Paolo's. Carrying water for the rook, not enough lineup variation to weed out the difference.

[basketballRob]

Paolo and Markelle are the only two players that play 100% of their minutes against the starters. Almost all the all-nba players play almost all of the first quarter, so that's who they face.

How about if you replaced Gary Harris with FVV and played all of Paolo's and Markelle's minutes with him?





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[SOUL]

So if we're comparing Fultz to AG (and I don't necessarily disagree) - I have a question for those who want to move on..

If we find players that match well with Fultz (or if there is so much internal improvement that our players become better shooters and we bring in shooters/scorers), and it starts to really click, even more so than this year.... does that change your mind?

AG works perfectly with Jokic and obviously we're not getting a Jokic (at best, a trade for a star scorer like Mitchell), so I'm wondering if there's a similar acceptance from people or if people are fundamentally against his play moving forward?

[Bensational]

One thing I don’t think Fultz gets enough credit for is how he has managed to rehab his confidence. Let’s be honest, his start in Philly along with his injuries broke the kid and he was quite gun-shy with us early on. Now that he has played 58 consecutive games we can really see his confidence returning. I think he’s come out of that whole ordeal somewhat battle hardened.

I’m hoping that the confidence extends to his 3pt shot next. It may not, and it may be that the TOS just has him physically limited. But if it has been more of a case of the yips, he may be able to build on his momentum and get his long range touch back. He’s earned the chance to continue showing what he can do next season though.

[fendilim]

So if we're comparing Fultz to AG (and I don't necessarily disagree) - I have a question for those who want to move on..

If we find players that match well with Fultz (or if there is so much internal improvement that our players become better shooters and we bring in shooters/scorers), and it starts to really click, even more so than this year.... does that change your mind?

AG works perfectly with Jokic and obviously we're not getting a Jokic (at best, a trade for a star scorer like Mitchell), so I'm wondering if there's a similar acceptance from people or if people are fundamentally against his play moving forward?

Should be.

That should mean paolo and franz developing as elite shooters too.

[VFX]

So if we're comparing Fultz to AG (and I don't necessarily disagree) - I have a question for those who want to move on..

If we find players that match well with Fultz (or if there is so much internal improvement that our players become better shooters and we bring in shooters/scorers), and it starts to really click, even more so than this year.... does that change your mind?

AG works perfectly with Jokic and obviously we're not getting a Jokic (at best, a trade for a star scorer like Mitchell), so I'm wondering if there's a similar acceptance from people or if people are fundamentally against his play moving forward?

It's an extremely rare and difficult player to perfectly fit next to him.

Jokic is that player for AG. He's rare and opens everything up for AG on the floor.

For Fultz it would have to be an extremely high volume Shooting Guard that makes plays off and on the ball. We are talking like circa 2016-2017 James Harden averaging 11 assists and 30ppg. Thats also an extremely rare player.

Donovan Mitchell is just a scorer. Markelle doesn't run a half court offense the way he needs to, and it remains to be seen. The 3 point shot is merely a factor in that equation.

What is the point of having a premiere scorer like Paolo if they don't utilize him effectively in the half court? Give the man some help outside of straight up iso-ing his defender nearly every possession.

The easier solution is to just find a balanced back court, that does these things at an average level, instead of banking on some MVP talent to mitigate 1/2 of the deficiencies of the guard spots.

[Knightro]

I've got a theory that Fultz's poor on-court impact is confounded with Paolo's. Carrying water for the rook, not enough lineup variation to weed out the difference.

I mean clearly. They're the two least impactful players of the guys who play regularly right now and they almost exclusively share minutes.

[pepe1991]

So if we're comparing Fultz to AG (and I don't necessarily disagree) - I have a question for those who want to move on..

If we find players that match well with Fultz (or if there is so much internal improvement that our players become better shooters and we bring in shooters/scorers), and it starts to really click, even more so than this year.... does that change your mind?

AG works perfectly with Jokic and obviously we're not getting a Jokic (at best, a trade for a star scorer like Mitchell), so I'm wondering if there's a similar acceptance from people or if people are fundamentally against his play moving forward?

Does it matter tho?

Jokic doesn't fit Gordon. Gordon fits Jokić, if he does not, he would be removed already.
And "fitting" guy who is on pace to become just 4th player in nba history with back to back to back MVPs shouldn't be that hard, especially if that player is one man offense and masks majority of things where Gordon struggles the most ( ballhandling, court vision, decision making).

Gordon as player didn't really change nor develop since leaving Magic. His FT is somehow worst, he averages less FGA than on Magic, his steals and blocks are in line with career numbers, his rebounding and assists is similar to Magic's numbers.
However, he dunked 300 times in 2 seasons... On Magic he dunked less than 300 times in... Four seasons?!

And that's the whole thing. There were seasons where he shot sub 40% shots inside 10 feet, now he shoots 68% of all shots inside 10 feet. His efficiency skyrocketed because he is not allowed to do things Magic were encouraging him to do ( stepback 3s, long 2s...)

For example, game vs Suns he had 26 points , those plays were:
dunk
putback
allyoop
putback of own missed dunk
putback dunk
corner 3
dunk
catch and shoot 3
driving layup


IT's not hard to figure that 8 of 10 shots he made were inside 3 feet and 6 of 8 were dunks.
When he was here his shot selection was: jumpshot, jumpshot, stepback 3, jumpshot, stepback 2, occesional layup... It driven me mad. Not that he was taking shots he 100% couldn't make, but that he was encouraged to do so.



I struggle to figure what type of roster would be helpful for Fultz. For example, most players love rim runners due easy layups, but you can't pair Fultz with rimrunner because of Westbrook-effect and floor shrinking. Having "4 out "+ Fultz also doesn't sounds logical, it sounds like Ben Simmons team. Maybe on team like OKC playing role of Josh Giddey so Jalen Williams, SGA and their bench can benefit from it? But Giddey is like 19 and already better passer, scorer and rebounder, so what's the point?

So i'm left with only Utah as team where he could be starter and not wrack whole team with his inability to shoot, mainly because all the focus would be on Lauri and his outside shooting. But in upcomming 3 drafts, Jazz have 6 guaranteed first roudn picks, and it's more realistic to expect them to draft PG of future than engage into overpay for vetr Fultz next year.

[zaymon]

Simple question. Do we build around Banchero/Wagner or Fultz/Wagner ? People here can write poems about Markelle and how cool of a dude he is. Its not a rehab center, its not a theater, its proffesional sports team.
Fultz/Banchero 1641 min, -4,1 net rtg. They are awful fit.
Wagner/Banchero are at 0 net rtg and Fultz/Wagner/Banchero -0,4.
Banchero or Fultz ? Which number 1 pick we build around ?
ps. Fultz went from good reserve to bad starter. Huge improvement.

[SunsRback4Good]

Fultz has really come a long way since his injury. He’s looking like the real deal on the Magic. How long do you have Fultz locked up for?

[Skybox]

Fultz has really come a long way since his injury. He’s looking like the real deal on the Magic. How long do you have Fultz locked up for?

Next season at 17m, only 2 mil guaranteed…come and get him

[VFX]

Fultz has really come a long way since his injury. He’s looking like the real deal on the Magic. How long do you have Fultz locked up for?

Next season at 17m, only 2 mil guaranteed…come and get him

[Rainwater]

So if we're comparing Fultz to AG (and I don't necessarily disagree) - I have a question for those who want to move on..

If we find players that match well with Fultz (or if there is so much internal improvement that our players become better shooters and we bring in shooters/scorers), and it starts to really click, even more so than this year.... does that change your mind?

AG works perfectly with Jokic and obviously we're not getting a Jokic (at best, a trade for a star scorer like Mitchell), so I'm wondering if there's a similar acceptance from people or if people are fundamentally against his play moving forward?

If you can find someone who matches well with Fultz, and it leads to wins that definitely changes my mind. The dislike of a player should not be of the player himself but the fit or impact on the team. If the Magic can find a way to make Fultz led to wins, I will be the first to say I was wrong, and the magic made it work.

Maybe having Fultz in a bench role when Paolo and Franz might be a viable option in the future as well.

[Rainwater]

So if we're comparing Fultz to AG (and I don't necessarily disagree) - I have a question for those who want to move on..

If we find players that match well with Fultz (or if there is so much internal improvement that our players become better shooters and we bring in shooters/scorers), and it starts to really click, even more so than this year.... does that change your mind?

AG works perfectly with Jokic and obviously we're not getting a Jokic (at best, a trade for a star scorer like Mitchell), so I'm wondering if there's a similar acceptance from people or if people are fundamentally against his play moving forward?

Does it matter tho?

Jokic doesn't fit Gordon. Gordon fits Jokić, if he does not, he would be removed already.
And "fitting" guy who is on pace to become just 4th player in nba history with back to back to back MVPs shouldn't be that hard, especially if that player is one man offense and masks majority of things where Gordon struggles the most ( ballhandling, court vision, decision making).

Gordon as player didn't really change nor develop since leaving Magic. His FT is somehow worst, he averages less FGA than on Magic, his steals and blocks are in line with career numbers, his rebounding and assists is similar to Magic's numbers.
However, he dunked 300 times in 2 seasons... On Magic he dunked less than 300 times in... Four seasons?!

And that's the whole thing. There were seasons where he shot sub 40% shots inside 10 feet, now he shoots 68% of all shots inside 10 feet. His efficiency skyrocketed because he is not allowed to do things Magic were encouraging him to do ( stepback 3s, long 2s...)

For example, game vs Suns he had 26 points , those plays were:
dunk
putback
allyoop
putback of own missed dunk
putback dunk
corner 3
dunk
catch and shoot 3
driving layup


IT's not hard to figure that 8 of 10 shots he made were inside 3 feet and 6 of 8 were dunks.
When he was here his shot selection was: jumpshot, jumpshot, stepback 3, jumpshot, stepback 2, occesional layup... It driven me mad. Not that he was taking shots he 100% couldn't make, but that he was encouraged to do so.



I struggle to figure what type of roster would be helpful for Fultz. For example, most players love rim runners due easy layups, but you can't pair Fultz with rimrunner because of Westbrook-effect and floor shrinking. Having "4 out "+ Fultz also doesn't sounds logical, it sounds like Ben Simmons team. Maybe on team like OKC playing role of Josh Giddey so Jalen Williams, SGA and their bench can benefit from it? But Giddey is like 19 and already better passer, scorer and rebounder, so what's the point?

So i'm left with only Utah as team where he could be starter and not wrack whole team with his inability to shoot, mainly because all the focus would be on Lauri and his outside shooting. But in upcomming 3 drafts, Jazz have 6 guaranteed first roudn picks, and it's more realistic to expect them to draft PG of future than engage into overpay for vetr Fultz next year.

You know what has always been funny about the use of AG in Orlando is that he was billed as the next Blake Griffin coming out of High School with monster dunking ability. However, the magic refused to use him in that way. Denver has and they have been wildly successful.

[BCS]

So if we're comparing Fultz to AG (and I don't necessarily disagree) - I have a question for those who want to move on..

If we find players that match well with Fultz (or if there is so much internal improvement that our players become better shooters and we bring in shooters/scorers), and it starts to really click, even more so than this year.... does that change your mind?

AG works perfectly with Jokic and obviously we're not getting a Jokic (at best, a trade for a star scorer like Mitchell), so I'm wondering if there's a similar acceptance from people or if people are fundamentally against his play moving forward?

It's an extremely rare and difficult player to perfectly fit next to him.

Jokic is that player for AG. He's rare and opens everything up for AG on the floor.

For Fultz it would have to be an extremely high volume Shooting Guard that makes plays off and on the ball. We are talking like circa 2016-2017 James Harden averaging 11 assists and 30ppg. Thats also an extremely rare player.

Donovan Mitchell is just a scorer. Markelle doesn't run a half court offense the way he needs to, and it remains to be seen. The 3 point shot is merely a factor in that equation.

What is the point of having a premiere scorer like Paolo if they don't utilize him effectively in the half court? Give the man some help outside of straight up iso-ing his defender nearly every possession.

The easier solution is to just find a balanced back court, that does these things at an average level, instead of banking on some MVP talent to mitigate 1/2 of the deficiencies of the guard spots.

Completely disagree on a James Harden being the best fit for Fultz. Fultz best backcourt partner is an elite shooter who knows how to move around the court to get open. Imo, someone in the Klay Thompson mold. So Klay, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, etc... that would be Fultz ideal SG.

I agree that the Paolo and Fultz pairing is a tough fit but I recently have been seeing signs of it working out. I do not think Paolo is a minus 30% 3pt shooter, not with the open looks he gets. With some work he is definitely in the 30's next year and if he gets to the mid 30's, that will be huge for them to work together. Any Fultz 3pt improvement at that point is a much welcomed bonus.

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[VFX]

So if we're comparing Fultz to AG (and I don't necessarily disagree) - I have a question for those who want to move on..

If we find players that match well with Fultz (or if there is so much internal improvement that our players become better shooters and we bring in shooters/scorers), and it starts to really click, even more so than this year.... does that change your mind?

AG works perfectly with Jokic and obviously we're not getting a Jokic (at best, a trade for a star scorer like Mitchell), so I'm wondering if there's a similar acceptance from people or if people are fundamentally against his play moving forward?

It's an extremely rare and difficult player to perfectly fit next to him.

Jokic is that player for AG. He's rare and opens everything up for AG on the floor.

For Fultz it would have to be an extremely high volume Shooting Guard that makes plays off and on the ball. We are talking like circa 2016-2017 James Harden averaging 11 assists and 30ppg. Thats also an extremely rare player.

Donovan Mitchell is just a scorer. Markelle doesn't run a half court offense the way he needs to, and it remains to be seen. The 3 point shot is merely a factor in that equation.

What is the point of having a premiere scorer like Paolo if they don't utilize him effectively in the half court? Give the man some help outside of straight up iso-ing his defender nearly every possession.

The easier solution is to just find a balanced back court, that does these things at an average level, instead of banking on some MVP talent to mitigate 1/2 of the deficiencies of the guard spots.

Completely disagree on a James Harden being the best fit for Fultz. Fultz best backcourt partner is an elite shooter who knows how to move around the court to get open. Imo, someone in the Klay Thompson mold. So Klay, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, etc... that would be Fultz ideal SG.

I agree that the Paolo and Fultz pairing is a tough fit but I recently have been seeing signs of it working out. I do not think Paolo is a minus 30% 3pt shooter, not with the open looks he gets. With some work he is definitely in the 30's next year and if he gets to the mid 30's, that will be huge for them to work together. Any Fultz 3pt improvement at that point is a much welcomed bonus.

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I use the Harden example because Orlando needs another playmaker, that can also shoot, IF they settle on Fultz. None of the guys you listed are good pick and roll playmakers, they are volume catch and shoot guys. I’m not even saying I want Orlando to go that route because it’s an unlikely fantasy.

Klay benefited from having the best guy in the league next to him at that craft. Whoever that other guard is won’t be as lucky next to Fultz.

Paolo and Fultz are not a good pairing at all. The floor shrinks and Fultz does nothing off the ball when he doesn’t have it in his hands. Paolo should have the ball in the half court if it’s not Franz. Every roster decision should be highlighting that choice on offense.

So instead of acquiring a point guard that can do all the things he can’t, you are banking on development that nobody has seen 6 years into the league and coming off his best season with a large looming contract?

[BCS]

It's an extremely rare and difficult player to perfectly fit next to him.

Jokic is that player for AG. He's rare and opens everything up for AG on the floor.

For Fultz it would have to be an extremely high volume Shooting Guard that makes plays off and on the ball. We are talking like circa 2016-2017 James Harden averaging 11 assists and 30ppg. Thats also an extremely rare player.

Donovan Mitchell is just a scorer. Markelle doesn't run a half court offense the way he needs to, and it remains to be seen. The 3 point shot is merely a factor in that equation.

What is the point of having a premiere scorer like Paolo if they don't utilize him effectively in the half court? Give the man some help outside of straight up iso-ing his defender nearly every possession.

The easier solution is to just find a balanced back court, that does these things at an average level, instead of banking on some MVP talent to mitigate 1/2 of the deficiencies of the guard spots.

Completely disagree on a James Harden being the best fit for Fultz. Fultz best backcourt partner is an elite shooter who knows how to move around the court to get open. Imo, someone in the Klay Thompson mold. So Klay, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, etc... that would be Fultz ideal SG.

I agree that the Paolo and Fultz pairing is a tough fit but I recently have been seeing signs of it working out. I do not think Paolo is a minus 30% 3pt shooter, not with the open looks he gets. With some work he is definitely in the 30's next year and if he gets to the mid 30's, that will be huge for them to work together. Any Fultz 3pt improvement at that point is a much welcomed bonus.

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I use the Harden example because Orlando needs another playmaker, that can also shoot, IF they settle on Fultz. None of the guys you listed are good pick and roll playmakers, they are volume catch and shoot guys. I’m not even saying I want Orlando to go that route because it’s an unlikely fantasy.

Klay benefited from having the best guy in the league next to him at that craft. Whoever that other guard is won’t be as lucky next to Fultz.

Paolo and Fultz are not a good pairing at all. The floor shrinks and Fultz does nothing off the ball when he doesn’t have it in his hands. Paolo should have the ball in the half court if it’s not Franz. Every roster decision should be highlighting that choice on offense.

So instead of acquiring a point guard that can do all the things he can’t, you are banking on development that nobody has seen 6 years into the league and coming off his best season with a large looming contract?

I still disagree, adding a heavy usage player to Fultz, Paolo, and Wagner as those 3 are at their best with the ball in their hands is just not going to work. Now, if it is replacing Fultz with best years Harden, that makes sense. If not you have to add movement shooters with those 3. Players that are constantly on the move not necessarily looking for a shot but also acting as a decoy to get someone else an easy shot. Adding a playmaking guard like Harden will just offer diminishing results with Wagner likely taking the biggest hit.

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[VFX]

Completely disagree on a James Harden being the best fit for Fultz. Fultz best backcourt partner is an elite shooter who knows how to move around the court to get open. Imo, someone in the Klay Thompson mold. So Klay, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, etc... that would be Fultz ideal SG.

I agree that the Paolo and Fultz pairing is a tough fit but I recently have been seeing signs of it working out. I do not think Paolo is a minus 30% 3pt shooter, not with the open looks he gets. With some work he is definitely in the 30's next year and if he gets to the mid 30's, that will be huge for them to work together. Any Fultz 3pt improvement at that point is a much welcomed bonus.

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app

I use the Harden example because Orlando needs another playmaker, that can also shoot, IF they settle on Fultz. None of the guys you listed are good pick and roll playmakers, they are volume catch and shoot guys. I’m not even saying I want Orlando to go that route because it’s an unlikely fantasy.

Klay benefited from having the best guy in the league next to him at that craft. Whoever that other guard is won’t be as lucky next to Fultz.

Paolo and Fultz are not a good pairing at all. The floor shrinks and Fultz does nothing off the ball when he doesn’t have it in his hands. Paolo should have the ball in the half court if it’s not Franz. Every roster decision should be highlighting that choice on offense.

So instead of acquiring a point guard that can do all the things he can’t, you are banking on development that nobody has seen 6 years into the league and coming off his best season with a large looming contract?

I still disagree, adding a heavy usage player to Fultz, Paolo, and Wagner as those 3 are at their best with the ball in their hands is just not going to work. Now, if it is replacing Fultz with best years Harden, that makes sense. If not you have to add movement shooters with those 3. Players that are constantly on the move not necessarily looking for a shot but also acting as a decoy to get someone else an easy shot. Adding a playmaking guard like Harden will just offer diminishing results with Wagner likely taking the biggest hit.

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The example wasn’t to say what should happen.

The example is used to show that the drawbacks of Fultz cannot be mitigated by a singular player at shooting guard, which is correct.

Franz and Paolo are not looking for shots on the perimeter as their first options. That’s fine. That just means that BOTH of the guards have to be willing and ABLE to shoot the basketball and make plays for them off the ball.

Fultz does neither of those things. That was the point of the example. You either get the highest usage guy imaginable that can do both of those things, or you simply replace him so both of your guards can highlight the Forwards. The latter is what they should be doing if the FO was intelligent.

I don’t understand this idea that the roster has to capitulate to the deficiencies of a premier position on the court simply because people lack imagination in finding a replacement that doesn’t have those deficiencies. That’s like shooting yourself in the foot and being excited about finding the best wheelchair money can buy. Why even do it if there are other options?

[zaymon]

I use the Harden example because Orlando needs another playmaker, that can also shoot, IF they settle on Fultz. None of the guys you listed are good pick and roll playmakers, they are volume catch and shoot guys. I’m not even saying I want Orlando to go that route because it’s an unlikely fantasy.

Klay benefited from having the best guy in the league next to him at that craft. Whoever that other guard is won’t be as lucky next to Fultz.

Paolo and Fultz are not a good pairing at all. The floor shrinks and Fultz does nothing off the ball when he doesn’t have it in his hands. Paolo should have the ball in the half court if it’s not Franz. Every roster decision should be highlighting that choice on offense.

So instead of acquiring a point guard that can do all the things he can’t, you are banking on development that nobody has seen 6 years into the league and coming off his best season with a large looming contract?

I still disagree, adding a heavy usage player to Fultz, Paolo, and Wagner as those 3 are at their best with the ball in their hands is just not going to work. Now, if it is replacing Fultz with best years Harden, that makes sense. If not you have to add movement shooters with those 3. Players that are constantly on the move not necessarily looking for a shot but also acting as a decoy to get someone else an easy shot. Adding a playmaking guard like Harden will just offer diminishing results with Wagner likely taking the biggest hit.

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The example wasn’t to say what should happen.

The example is used to show that the drawbacks of Fultz cannot be mitigated by a singular player at shooting guard, which is correct.

Franz and Paolo are not looking for shots on the perimeter as their first options. That’s fine. That just means that BOTH of the guards have to be willing and ABLE to shoot the basketball and make plays for them off the ball.

Fultz does neither of those things. That was the point of the example. You either get the highest usage guy imaginable that can do both of those things, or you simply replace him so both of your guards can highlight the Forwards.

I don’t understand this idea that the roster has to capitulate to the deficiencies of a premier position on the court simply because people lack imagination in finding a replacement that doesn’t have those deficiencies.

Problem is that with Fultz you need a floor spacer next to him AND someone who can run pick and roll. Both Franz and Paolo are not good enough to run p&r if we want to make playoffs. That would leave the sg slot to be de facto point guard with Fultz making his impression of smaller Demar Derozan. Harden actually could fullfil both of these roles, same as Curry or Lillard, but if you have such a guard why in the gods name would you start Fultz next to them ?
Thats the problem of Fultz, he needs a superstar guard next to him to mask his weaknesses but then that superstar makes him obsolete. Things could be a little different if we had someone like Durant or PG or Lebron...... past Westbrook budies wink wink (just like Harden, its so funny)