2023 NBA Draft (tonight's discussion on pg 58)

[DaVoiceMaster]

Is Simons really worth 2 lottery picks?

[DeBlazerRiddem]

How many, here, think the Knicks pick will be used by Portland to draft someone for themselves?

That happening means not using future 1sts for a BIG deal. While I understand that some here don’t want a big chunk of future draftees traded away, this is not a Covington or Nance Jr. scenario. And being on the trade Dame wagon for me is ONLY as a Plan C if others don’t pan out.

So, again, what’s the rationale for actually drafting with the Knicks pick? Just wondering.

I mean it really depends on what Chicago is asking for and what our scouts say about who is available at #23. If Mike Schmitz says "this kid is a steal" then I'm gonna draft him. If Chicago wants me to add pieces then I'm gonna tell them to go ahead and wait.

I do understand the added value of opening up that Chicago pick and think in most cases its probably the smart move. What are the chances we end up a top 8 team next year, so might be giving up a better pick next year if we wait.

However I don't think its an open and shut case. To play devils advocate its a flexibility the Blazers might not end up ever leveraging and that alone makes me cautious about it. I just dont know that a player I would actually want to go all in on is going to be available in the next year. So it might be a move totally in vain. What's more, after making that move everyone is going to be expecting you to use those picks. Other teams are gonna ask about them because you've told everyone "we made a move to free up our future picks so come and make an offer". Fans are going to wonder if there is a follow-up move. And in those circumstances you might actually accidentally end up baiting yourself into overpaying for a player not worth it, just because you have set your and everyone's expectations of doing something/anything with them.

[GEE]

How many, here, think the Knicks pick will be used by Portland to draft someone for themselves?

That happening means not using future 1sts for a BIG deal. While I understand that some here don’t want a big chunk of future draftees traded away, this is not a Covington or Nance Jr. scenario. And being on the trade Dame wagon for me is ONLY as a Plan C if others don’t pan out.

So, again, what’s the rationale for actually drafting with the Knicks pick? Just wondering.

I don't see any. Seems logical that pick, plus a future second will go to the Bulls. Cronin can then, unless we get #1, trade all our picks for the next 3 years, and use expendables like Nurkic, Little and Keon as salary filler. This in my estimation will be the trade assets offerred in trade.

I think Cronin simply needs to identify THE target, if he hasn't already... and make an overly aggressive play to get him in a Blazer uniform. Overpay! I think the hope this year was to have a prime Nurkic and Winslow, we would be much better with, but replacing that need with a COTF to blend with Simons and Sharpe, should be priority 1,2 &3. I just don't think that player is in this draft.

[GEE]

Simply put... unless we get the #1, I want to make all of our draft picks for the next 3 years available in trade, to solidify our PF/C rotation. Love Watford, but not as starter... Perfect though coming off the bench.

Nurkic, Keon, our FRP, all future FRPs and SRPs for the next 3 years is what I'm selling. My wish is (and I have no idea how) is for Cronin to somehow turn this into the addition of something like this:
A: A prime Winslow
B: Mark Williams (He's my personal choice as THE target COTF, him or better please)
C: Zach Collins (why not... I'd gladly bring him back)

With A, B & C... I think we could be in the WCFs next year.

Dame / Simons / Mays
Sharpe / Thybulle
Grant / Little / Knox
Winslow / Watford / Walker
Eubanks / Collins / Williams

[DaVoiceMaster]

What can Nurkicand Simons (roughly $30M), as well as the Blazers lotto pick and the Knicks pick get the Blazers? Maybe include any of the young guys not named Sharpe. The Blazers need a starting center, starting forward (either PF or SF), and some 2nd unit guys.

[BNM]

Sharpe blowing up might solve most of our problems. He needs to simply bump Simons and become the starting 2 going into next year. Simons is our PGOTF, but for now Dame continues to start and all of the PG and SG minutes will be split between the 3 players. Simple. Grant starting at 3 with Thybulle backing up the SG/SF. Sharpe getting a handful of minutes at the SF, Grant with a handful at PF. A prime Winslow(I hope) with Watford makes me feel all cozy and warm at the PF...

You make a lot of assumptions that, unfortunately, depend on Chauncey getting a clue. I lobbied hard in the forum last summer/fall for a starting line up of Nurk, Grant, Winslow, Hard and Dame with Ant coming off the bench. Chauncey had the entire off season, training camp, preseason, October, November and December to figure it out - and he didn't, and he won't.

Chauncey simply isn't the right head coach for this team - now, or ever.

[Village Idiot]

I really do like the Simons +23 to Orlando for 7,12 that has been discussed on the TB. Real chance Portland ends up with role players but at least with 5,7 and 12, it jumps starts the rebuild, whether Dame/Grant are here or want out

Ya, love that. I think it’s pretty favorable for PDX if we’re not taking on any $$$. IMO taking the Isaac contract makes it more fair for ORL. ( I would do it with JI, Harris or Fultz as salary ballast).

Issac's would be the ideal salary to take on in return. He makes $6.7 million less than Simons so that bascially covers the salary of the two additional picks. Isaac's deal is unguaranteed for 24-25 so if he struggles to produce coming back from his most recent injury its not a big deal or he could be used as a trade chip. If he does come back you have a guy who was looking like a all-defensive team candidate last time he played significant minutes.

[Village Idiot]

Simply put... unless we get the #1, I want to make all of our draft picks for the next 3 years available in trade, to solidify our PF/C rotation. Love Watford, but not as starter... Perfect though coming off the bench.

Nurkic, Keon, our FRP, all future FRPs and SRPs for the next 3 years is what I'm selling. My wish is (and I have no idea how) is for Cronin to somehow turn this into the addition of something like this:
A: A prime Winslow
B: Mark Williams (He's my personal choice as THE target COTF, him or better please)
C: Zach Collins (why not... I'd gladly bring him back)

With A, B & C... I think we could be in the WCFs next year.

Dame / Simons / Mays
Sharpe / Thybulle
Grant / Little / Knox
Winslow / Watford / Walker
Eubanks / Collins / Williams

At #5 we should be able to draft Jarace Walker whom I project somewhere on the Draymond Green to Scottie Barnes axis. Really versatile defender and great connector attributes offensively. Amazing motor and a better jumper than either of those guys.

B. At #23 we should be able to draft Derrcek Lively. Like Mark Williams he is a surpreme shot-blocker and also has quick enough feet and anticipation to switch and play out on the perimeter. He has much better passing skills than Williams and makes quick reads making him potentially a really valuable roll man

[Wizenheimer]

Is Simons really worth 2 lottery picks?

lol...no

[Goldbum]

The way I see it is this roster is way too FLAT. We have lots of young guys who can play but none of them has separated themselves. I really like Jabari but I could make the case that Knox is a better fit, same goes for Watford, same for Nas and Reddish too. I just think we need to pick a direction and accommodate it.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but Shaedon is a generational talent, and we should be building around him. If we want to get a chip building on Sharpe's timeline is our best chance. This guy is good enough that the if he ends up as Vince Carter I will be disappointed. Last night I was listening to the Clippers broadcast team drool all over themselves describing Shaedon.
Amen has been described as LeMello with ridiculous athleticism or Josh Giddey of he was an elite defender... with Dame and Ant I don't take that player but if we move off our short backcourt he could be the right guy to bookend of start SG.
I realize these are wild takes but if we decide that we can with a title some day with Shaedon we need to be making moves that will give us the best possible chance.

[Wizenheimer]

just read the last 3 pages or so of this thread

first, the rather OT parts:

* Simons is not a PG. At best he's a combo-guard which is the modern term for tweener guard. Tweener was more about size and length; combo is more about skill-sets. Simons has a lot of CJ traits; unfortunately he also is developing some MeJ traits too. That can be corrected though. Simons biggest problems is that he is an absolute defensive sieve and that he makes too much money to be a 6th man, even though 6th man would be his best role. Another problem is that Simons is standing in the way of Sharpe. This may not be at the level of Zach Randolph standing in the way of Aldridge but it could get to that point by next season. Last summer I was hopeful for the Dame/Ant combo. After the season, I'm not. Simons needs to be traded for a front-court upgrade, if possible

* Eubanks as backup C. I think he was just fine as a backup C. He certainly had the right price. Portland's bigger issue was the starting C and his massive inconsistency, and injury history. But that's another debate. The biggest issue with Eubanks is that while he's ok as a backup C, he's less ok as a backup big-man. Portland need a big man with more versatility that can play on the perimeter, especially on defense, and neither Nurkic or Eubanks are capable of that. Maybe Badji is that guy but that seems like a long shot. It sure isn't Butler

************************************************************************************************************

as for the draft, I mentioned this in another thread but I'm about 90% convinced the best use of Portland's pick, wherever it lands, is to draft a player and keep him. Like Sharpe was the best use of Portland's pick last year

now, a lot of that is because I believe the value of picks in trades has never been lower than it is right now. Meaning that the Blazers would be trading their leverage of a top-7 pick into a crappy market for top-7 picks. Way too many teams are trying to upgrade their rosters thru trades right now and they are making multiple 1st's available. We've heard repeatedly that the asking price for OG Anunoby was 3 first round picks. Minny traded 5 first round picks and a swap for Gobert. Yeah, that was a terrible trade. And Toronto's asking price for OG is nuts. But those are influencing the value and leverage of picks on the trade market and it will inevitably trickle-up to top-5 picks

I mean, would anybody be comfortable with the Blazers trading Simons + Little + Keon (salary matching) + #3 pick + Knicks pick + 2029 swap + 2030 1st + 2nd(s) for Siakam?...because that might be the minimum it would take

If Portland keeps the pick: I never follow the draft evaluations that closely. But from what I have followed, if Portland does not land the 1st (very likely), I'd rate Jarace Walker and Taylor Hendricks as the best options. The Thompson twins are interesting, but they are kind of brick-layers and I'm getting a little bit of Corey Brewer vibes from them

if Portland ends up at #2 and Scoot is BPA...and the Blazers don't find a no-brainer trade....and Dame wants so stay...then for sure Simons has to be moved

[red_power]

Minny traded 5 first round picks and a swap for Gobert. Yeah, that was a terrible trade.

PLUS Kessler (another FRP), PLUS two capable rotation players in Beasley and Vanderbilt, oh lord didn't they confuse Gobert with Embiid when they were pulling that trade?

[Wizenheimer]

Minny traded 5 first round picks and a swap for Gobert. Yeah, that was a terrible trade.

PLUS Kessler (another FRP), PLUS two capable rotation players in Beasley and Vanderbilt, oh lord didn't they confuse Gobert with Embiid when they were pulling that trade?

I counted Kessler as one of the 5 first's. What's crazy if that Kessler was better this season than Gobert. Gobert's salary was 38.2M; Kessler's was 2.7M....geeeeezuzzz

and Gobert was sent home by the Wolves today for punching a teammate.

oh well...another year, another Wolves dumpster fire

[The Sebastian Express]

I'd only trade Shaedon in a package for Embiid if he became available if the Sixers are playoff lackluster again (not rooting you fail, Philly fans!! I swear! Just speculation on conditions to Embiid becoming available!).

Based on exit interviews I'd suspect the internal plan is to try to package 2+ with future picks (and.. probably Ant) to try to find a real second option to Dame.

I still think we should do #2+ + Simons + future picks for Mikal Bridges, who while I'm not confident can be a legitimate #2 on a contender I think is easily better than Simons and a lineup of Dame/Sharpe/Bridges/Grant/whoeverwegettoreplaceNurk is incredibly unique and rangy.

[Jsun947]

Until the draft lottery all these discussions are a moot point. Really wish they didn’t wait 6 weeks after the season ends to do it.

When Dame & Cronin say they want to compete now, and that there’s needle moving players who want to be here instead of waiting for guys to develop, my immediate thought is… What if we simply can’t make those trades? Let’s just say that Guy is Embiid & Philly wants more than we can give? Does making this claim now, in some way, give Dame & the organization an out? Guy’s, we tried to acquire the players to make a championship quality team, they weren’t available, and now it’s simply time to move on?

[Norm2953]

Until the draft lottery all these discussions are a moot point. Really wish they didn’t wait 6 weeks after the season ends to do it.

When Dame & Cronin say they want to compete now, and that there’s needle moving players who want to be here instead of waiting for guys to develop, my immediate thought is… What if we simply can’t make those trades? Let’s just say that Guy is Embiid & Philly wants more than we can give? Does making this claim now, in some way, give Dame & the organization an out? Guy’s, we tried to acquire the players to make a championship quality team, they weren’t available, and now it’s simply time to move on?

It's really quite absurd to think Philly would trade Emblid for anything less than the draft rights to Victor, even if
he's going to be an UFA in 2023. Philly could still pay him more money than anyone else as would all the so called
difference makers.

Would Portland make a push for Bridges? Going to cost a lot with Sharpe and Portland's #5 pick + more to get
him for a team nucleus that is still not a playoff contender for Portland still would have that open hole at PF/c
that they've had since LA left.

One can run down the list for AD might be had, but he makes two years left on his deal at $83 million with a ETO.
He's also at an age as a big that misses 20-25 games a season,

Let's say the Blazers made a bid on Doncic. I'd hate to give up major assets for a guy who could walk
next summer, especially since like everyone else, the cost starts with Sharpe and Portland re-stocking the
draft ledgers of the Mavs.

I think Portland is two years away, assuming Sharpe earns the starting gig.

[The Sebastian Express]

In which world is Embiid potentially not available but Luka is?

[Jsun947]

In which world is Embiid potentially not available but Luka is?

I suppose the world where one of them demands a trade or becomes crippled because otherwise they ain’t moving

[red_power]

Would Portland make a push for Bridges? Going to cost a lot with Sharpe and Portland's #5 pick + more to get
him for a team nucleus that is still not a playoff contender for Portland still would have that open hole at PF/c
that they've had since LA left.

Nets mortgaged their future picks in that ill-fated Harden trade so I think there is no reason for them to become sellers on the market.
And yeah... Sharpe AND our top pick could be a bit too much for Bridges, I'm afraid.

[The Sebastian Express]

In which world is Embiid potentially not available but Luka is?

I suppose the world where one of them demands a trade or becomes crippled because otherwise they ain’t moving

Luka is like barely 24 years old and under contract until 2027. Has no h ealth issues. He could walk up and spit in the face of Mark Cuban and demand a trade, the Mavericks aren't going to do it.

Embiid is an entire different situation because of being older, history of injuries, and struggles in the playoffs. I'm not saying Philly will put him on the market. But I am saying if they struggle in the playoffs again, if there's a real sense Harden might jet back to Houston - we might see them put him on a market for an insane (and justified!) return.