Joao Saraiva wrote:I also think Kobe has become a bit underrated arround the PC board or that he's always been. I understand he didn't always make the correct play, I understand that the "clutch" ability is also elevated by casuals. But he did get off a shot against any type of defense, and that ability is more important that it seems. His ts% for someone who took so many bad shots is actually pretty high, specially when you take into consideration his low TOV%.
I think the problem with Kobe discussions is more that you get his stans who wildly overreach, and then a lot of conversational backlash as people discuss why he wasn't God's gift to basketball, even if the folks making counterpoints have a healthy respect for Kobe's ability. And then there's the whole discussion of Kobe's ability versus how he elected to play, which is another little wrinkle in all of that, because he could have been better if he didn't focus on several of the wrong things. Even still, a magnificent player and ATG, which speaks volumes of his talent and development. Also, Kobe's TS% isn't bad; 01-09, he was under 104 TS+ once (and it was 103). 2010-2012, not ideal, but then back to 107 in 2013. He was actually more efficient than a lot of his peers, and at much higher volume than most of them, including the more efficient ones. You're talking about Wade, Peja, Pierce, Lebron, Vince, Melo and Ray Allen as his most consistent competitors through 2013 as far as guards and wings at volume. Certainly pre-05. Couple of seasons here and there from like Jason Richardson, Corey Maggette, etc, etc but by and large, Kobe was in a very elite tier in terms of scoring efficiency and volume during his hey-day. He lagged behind Lebron and Wade, and surely behind Ray (though Allen didn't really touch Kobe's volume outside of his earliest days in Seattle).
Kobe has this weird reputation where people think he was
inefficient, which isn't true. He was a guy who made frustrating decisions at inopportune times. His overall profile as a scorer was quite good, and could have been better had he not grown a fondness for the dumbest shots and sets in basketball. But even still, he was incredible.
About Billups... I believe he was a fantastic floor general and pace controller. That's why those Pistons teams had a ton of success with him running the PG spot, and also why when he went to Denver they made it to the WCF and Carmelo seemed to be the best of himself. Billups could score, he would score, but he would certainly put his teammates in position to succeed.
Billups was outstanding. He was an early adopter of the FTA/3PA type model. He wasn't a very good scorer in between the rim and the 3pt line but damn did he put pressure on a defense in his day, and as you say, he was a smart floor general. He also didn't call his own number too frequently.
I think IT is a bit overrated. He had the explosion as a scorer, but I don't see him as such a general as Billups was, or even consistently being a better scorer than Billups.
Isiah wasn't actually a particularly good scorer relative to his volume-scoring peers. For a few years when he was a volume playmaker, he had other major offensive value, but I also consider him one of the more overrated players. Only so far, as he managed to integrate into good teams, buy into the defensive philosophy, and in as much as we can't apply numbers to leadership, he didn't have his team's ear pretty clearly.
