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Markelle Fultz

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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#81 » by zaymon » Sun Apr 9, 2023 1:27 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:He was drafted largely because he was an excellent pick and roll player and projected to be elite at it in the NBA eventually. This obvously didn't happen and he is currently one of the worst starting PGs at this. In fact, we have 3 players who have run and more pick and rolls than him this season (Franz, Paolo and Cole).


Thats the most suprising thing. He only uses most basic reads, his timing and accuracy on passes is off, his dribbling is loose. When Cole Anthony is better passer than you, then you know you are not really a point guard. It will be a big mistake if we retain him.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#82 » by Skybox » Sun Apr 9, 2023 1:46 pm

zaymon wrote:
Bergmaniac wrote:He was drafted largely because he was an excellent pick and roll player and projected to be elite at it in the NBA eventually. This obvously didn't happen and he is currently one of the worst starting PGs at this. In fact, we have 3 players who have run and more pick and rolls than him this season (Franz, Paolo and Cole).


Thats the most suprising thing. He only uses most basic reads, his timing and accuracy on passes is off, his dribbling is loose. When Cole Anthony is better passer than you, then you know you are not really a point guard. It will be a big mistake if we retain him.


I actually must defend him as I think his ball handling is great and the way he moves comfortably through traffic with patience and uses his body to protect the ball shows tremendous instincts and skill. Kind of reminds me of how SGA doesn't look fast but just moves where he wants with the ball...But that's all there is, IMO.

The highlight dunks are fun in the same meaningless way a Bol length of the court crash to the rim is fun for the bench mob, but it's not what we need-it's just fun and counts like a layup.

Where are the assists? Spare the "assists don't tell the whole story" thing...they tell quite a bit for a PG.

Where are the free throws?

Why would you cover him in a PnR when you can double the other guy and not get punished? That's the most important and prevalent thing in modern NBA.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#83 » by Knightro » Sun Apr 9, 2023 2:13 pm

Bensational wrote:Wow, I didn’t realise you were so low on Paolo and Franz’s potential. I mean, your plan to add a high volume 3pt shooting PG is certainly to mitigate that our lead scorers currently aren’t that.

Why don’t you try answering the question I’ve asked you which you’ve ghosted both times I’ve asked it previously? How do you plan to control the variance of the 3pt shot and reality most players miss 2/3 shots? How do you game plan to make sure they hit those shots when you need them most without adding Steph Curry? FVV? The guy with a worse TS% than Fultz? Who’s going to mitigate FVV’s terrible %’s from 2?


I want Paolo and Franz to become as good as they possibly can become. But if they both *need* to become All-NBA caliber players to mitigate Fultz's shortcomings like Tatum and Brown did to mitigate Smart's (and this isn't even factoring in that Smart has won Defensive Player of the Year and is a caliber of defender that Fultz is not and won't likely ever be), then it stands to reason to me that it would be a whole lot easier to just find somebody to replace Fultz than it would be to bank on both of those guys becoming top 15 NBA players.

You keep talking about controlling the variance from 3PT and that's the wrong way to look at it. There's going to be variance game to game. That's simply unavoidable. They don't call the NBA a "make or miss" league for nothing. If you shoot poorly from 3PT or don't make a lot of 3PT, you're always going to be significantly more likely to lose.

The key is staying connected. It's easier, in my opinion, to have sustained success offensively if you're at least able to stay connected to your opponent from 3PT which the Magic rarely are able to do. One of the main reasons (not the only reason) is because their primary ball handler doesn't take or make threes.

As far as VanVleet goes, he mitigates his own low 2PT% in some ways by being heavy volume from 3PT. He's a career .373 shooter from 3PT. That is 1.119 points per shot attempt. That is the equivalent to shooting 55.95% from 2PT.

FVV mitigates his low 2PT% in some ways by getting to the line at a much higher rate than Fultz and making nearly 90% from there.

FVV mitigates his own low 2PT% in some ways by assuming a heavier ball handling load than Fultz (84 touches per game compared to 67 for Fultz), but being significant lower turnover (10.2 TOV% for FVV compared to 15.9 TOV% for Fultz). Obviously fewer turnovers = more shot attempts.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#84 » by VFX » Sun Apr 9, 2023 3:16 pm

Skybox wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Bergmaniac wrote:He was drafted largely because he was an excellent pick and roll player and projected to be elite at it in the NBA eventually. This obvously didn't happen and he is currently one of the worst starting PGs at this. In fact, we have 3 players who have run and more pick and rolls than him this season (Franz, Paolo and Cole).


Thats the most suprising thing. He only uses most basic reads, his timing and accuracy on passes is off, his dribbling is loose. When Cole Anthony is better passer than you, then you know you are not really a point guard. It will be a big mistake if we retain him.


I actually must defend him as I think his ball handling is great and the way he moves comfortably through traffic with patience and uses his body to protect the ball shows tremendous instincts and skill. Kind of reminds me of how SGA doesn't look fast but just moves where he wants with the ball...But that's all there is, IMO.

The highlight dunks are fun in the same meaningless way a Bol length of the court crash to the rim is fun for the bench mob, but it's not what we need-it's just fun and counts like a layup.

Where are the assists? Spare the "assists don't tell the whole story" thing...they tell quite a bit for a PG.

Where are the free throws?

Why would you cover him in a PnR when you can double the other guy and not get punished? That's the most important and prevalent thing in modern NBA.


Fultz looks great in transition and getting through traffic.

He’s basically a 6’4 shooting guard that doesn’t shoot on or off the ball.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#85 » by zaymon » Sun Apr 9, 2023 4:13 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Skybox wrote:
zaymon wrote:
Thats the most suprising thing. He only uses most basic reads, his timing and accuracy on passes is off, his dribbling is loose. When Cole Anthony is better passer than you, then you know you are not really a point guard. It will be a big mistake if we retain him.


I actually must defend him as I think his ball handling is great and the way he moves comfortably through traffic with patience and uses his body to protect the ball shows tremendous instincts and skill. Kind of reminds me of how SGA doesn't look fast but just moves where he wants with the ball...But that's all there is, IMO.

The highlight dunks are fun in the same meaningless way a Bol length of the court crash to the rim is fun for the bench mob, but it's not what we need-it's just fun and counts like a layup.

Where are the assists? Spare the "assists don't tell the whole story" thing...they tell quite a bit for a PG.

Where are the free throws?

Why would you cover him in a PnR when you can double the other guy and not get punished? That's the most important and prevalent thing in modern NBA.


Fultz looks great in transition and getting through traffic.

He’s basically a 6’4 shooting guard that doesn’t shoot on or off the ball.


Fultz looks great in transition but is actually in 53 percentile. Few flashy dunks is all he can do. People here crucified Fournier for losing the ball in crucial moments, but Fultz makes it even more when he tries to do more than just dribble to the middle of the court and shoot above smallest defender.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#86 » by RichCollab » Sun Apr 9, 2023 4:42 pm

I see we are all in agreement Fultz starts next year.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#87 » by T-Cat » Sun Apr 9, 2023 9:00 pm

Fultz knows he has to improve but can we as fans admire his excellent season because without his play we as a team started off poorly! We probably we be worse than the Detroit Pistons!

Ultimately, if we are to take the next step as a contending team we need Coach Mosley to put our players into better position to score efficiently by taking quality shots. For example, we can start by taking advantage of Banchero size advantage in the post.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#88 » by MasterGMer » Sun Apr 9, 2023 9:30 pm

Knightro wrote:
MasterGMer wrote: But there is a reason why Markelle was the NO.1 pick. Because of his skill sets and his ability to get to the paint or mid ranges and score.


Oh come on now.

Markelle went No.1. overall because in college he made over 41% of his threes on good volume (.287 3PT rate) and had good FT volume (.383 FT rate).

Those two things were in addition to his ability to make midrange jumpers and score on drives to the rim.

But now? He doesn't take or make threes basically at all (.125 3PT rate this year, .134 career) and his ability to get to the line is far worse than it was in college (.212 this year, .206 career)

He's a completely different player than he was in college. Two of the main things that made him the top pick no longer exist.


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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#89 » by VFX » Sun Apr 9, 2023 9:58 pm

MasterGMer wrote:
Knightro wrote:
MasterGMer wrote: But there is a reason why Markelle was the NO.1 pick. Because of his skill sets and his ability to get to the paint or mid ranges and score.


Oh come on now.

Markelle went No.1. overall because in college he made over 41% of his threes on good volume (.287 3PT rate) and had good FT volume (.383 FT rate).

Those two things were in addition to his ability to make midrange jumpers and score on drives to the rim.

But now? He doesn't take or make threes basically at all (.125 3PT rate this year, .134 career) and his ability to get to the line is far worse than it was in college (.212 this year, .206 career)

He's a completely different player than he was in college. Two of the main things that made him the top pick no longer exist.


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11/35 in the last 20 games

35 attempts in 20 games as a starting point guard….
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#90 » by MagicStarwipe » Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:18 am

In the 1st quarter shot a standstill 3 pointer with his college form (not off the dribble!) Sounds like a small thing, but with everything Markelle has gone through with his shot, it's actually a very big deal! The confidence is returning. There is actually a glimmer of hope that he could return to the player he used to be.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#91 » by MagicStarwipe » Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:13 am

Image

Had some momentum built up, but still, not off the dribble. Missed it, but took 2 more off the dribble later in the game and swished one pure. A summer of working on this could be huge. We haven't seen him do this since 2017. It's no longer blind hope.

Pure...

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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#92 » by yoyojw17 » Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:04 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:In the 1st quarter shot a standstill 3 pointer with his college form (not off the dribble!) Sounds like a small thing, but with everything Markelle has gone through with his shot, it's actually a very big deal! The confidence is returning. There is actually a glimmer of hope that he could return to the player he used to be.


People try to take every little step in the right direction for granted. He's still under contract until the end of next season... and i think they will be taking their time to evaluate him and see his growth. He has shown an amazing foundation coming back from a series of injuries. put that along with a new team and balancing the featuring of 2 up and coming young players.

It is obvious in my opinion that he takes a step back to let Paolo and Franz shine. Both players are usage players and primary ball handlers... players that are playmakers and on such a trajectory. He also shares the court with cole anthony annnnnd later on Jalen Suggs.... who are all ball handlers and playmakers as well. so.... strictly looking at the 5.7 assists in 30 min does not paint the entire picture. He averaged the same number of assists in his 2021-2022 return off the bench last season.... and when you think about how he delivered the ball to those players for easier baskets... you could understand why. He did not have that vantage as much this year. Passes don't lead to easy cuts or made 3pnter as much because of the type of players he is surrounded by. Some of these other players still tend to put themselves in a position where the ball is reset and the ball will be bounced for another setup.

styles of play will continue to mature and flourish in the offseason. I also believe that these players get better as a group. And happy he's showing some shooting confidence improvements and I'm excited to see where this goes. FT... yeah... he gets to the spots he wants and can get his shot off with little resistance. With his handles and herky-jerky motions, he can draw contact if he wants to push the envelope.

we shall see!!
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#93 » by Bensational » Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:12 am

Fultz’s assist levels are fine. Per36 he’s basically the same as FVV. There’s not much separating them in PnR playmaking either. And this is off Fultz’s first healthy season in a long time as he’s just starting to enter his prime years.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#94 » by SOUL » Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:56 am

Pure assists are a bad stat. Look at some people above 6 apg and they are not good passers, just simply have the ball a lot. Fultz has a lot of issues but solid-level playmaking isn't one of them. Although I do notice in the clutch it does get a bit iffy.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#95 » by zaymon » Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:16 am

Bensational wrote:Fultz’s assist levels are fine. Per36 he’s basically the same as FVV. There’s not much separating them in PnR playmaking either. And this is off Fultz’s first healthy season in a long time as he’s just starting to enter his prime years.


Fultz and FVV are basically the same. Both champions, both elite defenders, both have highly repeatable shot which doesnt get changed based on opponent or time of the season, they are both low turnover players with 3-1 assist to turnover ratio, they are both heady playmakers well above 50 percentile in pick and roll action, they both space the floor with over 1 three a game.
We agreed they are basically same player so i would prefer to get FVV who is healthy for most of the season than Fultz who is healthy for last game of the season. We should trade Markelle to Rockets, then they will get eliminated sooner, and Fultz will get better maybe even in march.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#96 » by pepe1991 » Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:47 am

What's funnier?

Posting twitter posts of some 12 years old boy who spent last month in twitter feuds over Jalen Williams and ROY conversation or claiming that "offeseason" for 6 year vet is "pivotal" in his career?

Since we are posting BS and miths, might as well put out there that Santa is real and Isaac is healthy. And Elfrid is my championship point guard gowddwamnit
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#97 » by MagicStarwipe » Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:43 am

pepe1991 wrote:What's funnier?

Posting twitter posts of some 12 years old boy who spent last month in twitter feuds over Jalen Williams and ROY conversation or claiming that "offeseason" for 6 year vet is "pivotal" in his career?

Since we are posting BS and miths, might as well put out there that Santa is real and Isaac is healthy. And Elfrid is my championship point guard gowddwamnit


It was a Santa Claus myth until he started doing this in games...

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Now it's something that is a real possibility. Which is why the offseason for him could be huge. I know it's "cool" to be the constant pessimist/"realist", but when a guy that has the history of Fultz shows something that he hasn't shown since 2017 it's perfectly fine for people to notice, point it out, and possibly even root for the guy. You'll notice nobody is saying he's guaranteed to be Damian Lillard next season, so no hyperbole needed.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#98 » by SloNick Russia » Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:53 am

zaymon wrote:
Bensational wrote:Fultz’s assist levels are fine. Per36 he’s basically the same as FVV. There’s not much separating them in PnR playmaking either. And this is off Fultz’s first healthy season in a long time as he’s just starting to enter his prime years.


Fultz and FVV are basically the same. Both champions, both elite defenders, both have highly repeatable shot which doesnt get changed based on opponent or time of the season, they are both low turnover players with 3-1 assist to turnover ratio, they are both heady playmakers well above 50 percentile in pick and roll action, they both space the floor with over 1 three a game.
We agreed they are basically same player so i would prefer to get FVV who is healthy for most of the season than Fultz who is healthy for last game of the season. We should trade Markelle to Rockets, then they will get eliminated sooner, and Fultz will get better maybe even in march.
Will basicly the same 6-0, 29 years old FVV play here for the same 17M or he will ask for 35-40M per?

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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#99 » by zaymon » Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:39 am

SloNick Russia wrote:Will basicly the same 6-0, 29 years old FVV play here for the same 17M or he will ask for 35-40M per?


He will ask for 30M+ for sure and we will be glad if he agree's. 6'0 doesnt matter becouse he is twice as good of a defender as Fultz who is 6'3 with 6'10 wingspan and is average at best despite his tools. 29 years old is prime, especially given he doesnt rely on athletecism as much as... Fultz for exemple who if we took athletecism and size would not even start at Lakeland Magic.
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Re: Markelle Fultz 

Post#100 » by Bensational » Mon Apr 10, 2023 11:17 am

zaymon wrote:
Bensational wrote:Fultz’s assist levels are fine. Per36 he’s basically the same as FVV. There’s not much separating them in PnR playmaking either. And this is off Fultz’s first healthy season in a long time as he’s just starting to enter his prime years.


Fultz and FVV are basically the same. Both champions, both elite defenders, both have highly repeatable shot which doesnt get changed based on opponent or time of the season, they are both low turnover players with 3-1 assist to turnover ratio, they are both heady playmakers well above 50 percentile in pick and roll action, they both space the floor with over 1 three a game.
We agreed they are basically same player so i would prefer to get FVV who is healthy for most of the season than Fultz who is healthy for last game of the season. We should trade Markelle to Rockets, then they will get eliminated sooner, and Fultz will get better maybe even in march.


You should check his games played. He made 69 this season and that’s the 2nd most since his sophomore season.

21-22 = 65
20-21= 52
19-20= 54
18-19= 64

He hasn’t got a track record for health, and neither does Fultz, but one is 4 years younger than the other.

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