How Bad Was That Dallas Win?

[Wingy]

Most savvy fans understand becoming a “favorite to win a title” doesn’t happen over night.

Most savvy fans understand that becoming a favorite to win a title will probably happen between zero and two times for the rest of their lives (depending on age) no matter what the FO of their team does. It's essentially an insane thing to aspire to.

Probably true, but your team shouldn’t try to maximize its odds?

It’s real hard, so **** it. Seems again, like a loser’s mentality.

[League Circles]

Most savvy fans understand becoming a “favorite to win a title” doesn’t happen over night.

Most savvy fans understand that becoming a favorite to win a title will probably happen between zero and two times for the rest of their lives (depending on age) no matter what the FO of their team does. It's essentially an insane thing to aspire to.

Probably true, but your team shouldn’t try to maximize its odds?

It’s real hard, so **** it. Seems again, like a loser’s mentality.

Maximizing our odds right now means getting mentally and physically prepared for the playoffs that are on the verge of starting. We have a bunch of games we need to win against good teams. There is nothing we can do to make it likely that we keep our draft pick. I don't really care about 14% vs 8% or whatever the odds difference is to get a player that might be good in a few years when I'm getting amped for the playoffs.

[HomoSapien]

Tanking was never on the table for this front office and was especially off the table once we signed Beverly.

[PJSteven22]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

And you’re going to be sitting here a few years from now wondering why this team is so mediocre

Why would the naturally expected outcome for all teams need explanation?

Every team in the league projects as medicore "in a few years". That's the essence of the natural world.

Not that’s not how it’s works. Taking advantage of the buyers market would have yielded better results in the future.

[League Circles]

And you’re going to be sitting here a few years from now wondering why this team is so mediocre

Why would the naturally expected outcome for all teams need explanation?

Every team in the league projects as medicore "in a few years". That's the essence of the natural world.

Not that’s not how it’s works. Taking advantage of the buyers market would have yielded better results in the future.

Maybe not in 1 or 2 years, but that's absolutely how it works if you push out a little bit. Certainly in 5 years every team projects to return to the mean.

Idk what "taking advantage of the buyers market" means. We're talking about how " bad" beating Dallas was. I would have liked to make some trades at the deadline too, not that we have any reliable way of knowing what was available.

I'm even fine resting vets in these last few games, but for the reason of getting them fresh and avoiding injury risk to prepare for the playoffs. Not to slightly increase the crap odds we have at getting an ambiguous teenager who may very well never be any good, and almost certainly won't for at least a couple years. Plus we'd still have to give up next year's pick anyway.

[Wingy]

Maximizing our odds right now means getting mentally and physically prepared for the playoffs that are on the verge of starting. We have a bunch of games we need to win against good teams. There is nothing we can do to make it likely that we keep our draft pick. I don't really care about 14% vs 8% or whatever the odds difference is to get a player that might be good in a few years when I'm getting amped for the playoffs.

On that I can agree. This thread is weeks late and way short. The time to try to optimize our pick odds was either at the deadline, or at very least - not picking up Pat Bev. I noted that in my first post in the thread.

8% vs 42% is significant. 14 vs 8? Yeah, I’m not going to get overly worked up about it. I do think it’s objectively silly to give up that 6% since I believe our playin position was already solidified. But there’s an argument for Coby/PWill gaining confidence, so yeah…not gonna stress it.

[DropStep]

14% vs. 8%. That's 6 extra percent, or roughly 4 times the chances of us getting Derrick Rose back in the day. You have to consider it. But I'm glad we didn't get into a totally humiliating tank-off with the Mavs and Pistons over that six percent. We are, still, barely, better than that. And we might have lost the tank-off, and what is more dispiriting than that? But if we were playing a decent, non-tanking team, we should have made sure to lose a game we probably would have lost anyway. That loss is potentially very high leverage, and if we get nothing from winning other than the thrill of winning one out of 82 games, take the leverage. We have young guys we need to see, anyway. You can do that without compromising the on-court competitive integrity. Let the scrubs try their asses off.

I prefer my tanking to be rare, deliberate, and disciplined, but if you mediocrely meander into one tankable game that could potentially change the franchise, you take that too. Except against the Pistons.

[NecessaryEvil]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

I'd rather have a chance at the top 3 picks over losing in the first round, which we may not even get to.

[League Circles]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

I'd rather have a chance at the top 3 picks over losing in the first round, which we may not even get to.

I suppose I'd probably rather actually have a top 3 pick than lose in the first round, but even the worst team in the league is unlikely to draft in the top 3.

[Bandit King]

This organization wanted pkayoff revenue they dont care about championships.

That's why they wanted to shoot for the playin.

[PJSteven22]

Adding a top 4 pick might actually hurt and set us back, as it has for many, many , many teams including us multiple times (Marcus Fizer, Tyrus Thomas, etc etc). But we probably won't get a top 4 pick regardless. But ultimately it's pretty straightforward - we were trying to win the game cause that's the entire purpose of the **** endeavor. We had the game to win, not "NOTHING". We had souls to kill.

This is absolutely ridiculous

So if it's absolutely ridiculous that a #4 pick could hurt us, you would argue that it's absolutely ridiculous that any draft pick could hurt a team, right? So the 60th pick in the draft will always help a team relative to alternatives? That's nonsense. Every player acquisition can be a pro or con.

This is terrible logic the 4th pick isn’t equal to Mr. Irrelevant

[PJSteven22]

Why would the naturally expected outcome for all teams need explanation?

Every team in the league projects as medicore "in a few years". That's the essence of the natural world.

Not that’s not how it’s works. Taking advantage of the buyers market would have yielded better results in the future.

Maybe not in 1 or 2 years, but that's absolutely how it works if you push out a little bit. Certainly in 5 years every team projects to return to the mean.

Idk what "taking advantage of the buyers market" means. We're talking about how " bad" beating Dallas was. I would have liked to make some trades at the deadline too, not that we have any reliable way of knowing what was available.

I'm even fine resting vets in these last few games, but for the reason of getting them fresh and avoiding injury risk to prepare for the playoffs. Not to slightly increase the crap odds we have at getting an ambiguous teenager who may very well never be any good, and almost certainly won't for at least a couple years. Plus we'd still have to give up next year's pick anyway.

At least we had that run into playins. Yeah!

[WindyCityBorn]

I honestly had them as unanimous FO of the Year last year, at the ASB. All their moves looked great (except the Vuc trade, at that point-but the team was ROLLING). Now, the wheels have fallen off. It happens-not all plans work out

BUT PIVOT-don't pour good money after bad

The Dallas win was bad for SO MANY reasons
-lotto odds
-give NY a trade chip to get Lavine
-injury risk (playing Caruso, really?)

If our GLeague MVP played 40 minutes and went GOAT, and won the game-fine. The guys on the floor should ALWAYS try to win. But, Donovan should have played
White/Williams the full Q1/Q3 and let them sit
Vuc 18 minutes, 9 minutes in Q1/Q3

Simonovic DIDN'T PLAY-how is that possible. Do we need to see what DJJ can do? I think we know what he is. Ayo-sure, let him run around. But Terry/Jones/Terry should have played 36 minutes each

That was SUCH BAD planning by our decision makers, on so many levels

Why does anyone think LaVine is going anywhere? He isn’t unless he asks out which I don’t see happening in the foreseeable future.

[WindyCityBorn]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

I'm with you on this one.

I hear you-and, as I mentioned-the guys on the court should have been trying to win. But why play Coby SO many minutes? And PWill? Caruso gets hurt all the time-let him sit. Play Vuc a bit, but he went for 20/10.
Adding a top 4 pick would REALLY help this team in the future. We had NOTHING to win from that game-our 10th seed spot was secure

You are wishing on a star taking about top 4 pick. You tank all season if that is your goal. And AK doesn’t tank.

[WindyCityBorn]

It was good to win the game because winning is good and losing is for losers and the draft and lottery suck ass as something to aspire to.

And you’re going to be sitting here a few years from now wondering why this team is so mediocre

Rather be mediocre than intentionally terrible. That worked so well for first decade of this century right? If the Bulls never win another championship in my lifetime I still saw 6. Most people will never get that.

I will NEVER support a full season of intentional sucking.

AK had a good situation until the Ball injury. I still believe in his no tank mentality.

[WindyCityBorn]

I can understand the losers who didn't get to bask in the dynasty glory, but I've seen 180 years worth of championships in 30 years of time, so I know I'm up BIG on the ultimate prize, and will be for the rest of my life. Thus, I just want the competition.

It really all comes down to this: wise fans treat all seasons equally, so a season 3 years from now is worth equal to a current season, or maybe slightly less just in case one dies in the interim.

The loser's mentality is that future seasons are always more valuable than the current one unless you look like the favorite to win a title in the current season. What that anounts to is just a fan of imaginary teams over real teams. It's being a fan of hypothetical teams over real ones. Just a difference in entertainment preferences. For me, my imagination is way, way doper than getting off on draft picks of 18 year olds. Sports are for now.

We are 100 percent in agreement. I have no interest in a organization that tanks. OKC is trash to me and unless they win a championship they will remain trash forever. Same for the 76ers. Their window is just about closed after being the most notorious tankers(losers) in sports history.

[WindyCityBorn]

It appears some people never played any form of competition, sports or otherwise. There comes a point when your own personal pride is what matters and whatever the contest is you want to win. You get sick and tired of losing and THIS game is what matters and winning the next more important game doesn't matter, the risk of injury isn't bigger because of the next game or next season. Jaylen Brown like others before him, including Michael Jordan, cut his hand at home doing some mundane activity. NASCAR champion and annual contender Chase Elliott broke his leg snowboarding and has missed several races and will miss more. Players don't want to be wrapped in a plastic bubble and taken out for shootaround.

You play because you love the game, the competition and you teammates. I pity so many who never had those feelings

For about the 9 millionth time, no one expects the players on the floor to throw a game. As for the rest of it, our GM, Coach and every player who sat out have all played sports at (presumably) a significantly higher level than you ever did. And they did in fact make decisions intended to lose the game. So did the entire Mavericks organization. So how does that align with your post?

Would have forced Vuc to sit after like 10 minutes if they truly were hell bent on losing. And play Coby 30 minutes instead of 40 minutes. They weren’t. Those guys didn’t play because we could not change our seeding. Not because they were determined to lose.

[WindyCityBorn]

This organization wanted pkayoff revenue they dont care about championships.

That's why they wanted to shoot for the playin.

I don’t think it’s about playoff revenue as we are unlikely to make it past the first game of the play-in. AK is simply not going to tank no matter how badly some of you want.

You all should just start calling for AK to be fired instead of tanking. Because no tanking will happen while he is here. He made that perfectly clear from day one.

[League Circles]

This is absolutely ridiculous

So if it's absolutely ridiculous that a #4 pick could hurt us, you would argue that it's absolutely ridiculous that any draft pick could hurt a team, right? So the 60th pick in the draft will always help a team relative to alternatives? That's nonsense. Every player acquisition can be a pro or con.

This is terrible logic the 4th pick isn’t equal to Mr. Irrelevant

Not sure what this means. I wasn't comparing anyone. It's just a matter of fact that a top 4 pick can be a terrible bust on a 10 million/year contract. Happens pretty regularly.

[dukeespn]

I can understand the losers who didn't get to bask in the dynasty glory, but I've seen 180 years worth of championships in 30 years of time, so I know I'm up BIG on the ultimate prize, and will be for the rest of my life. Thus, I just want the competition.

It really all comes down to this: wise fans treat all seasons equally, so a season 3 years from now is worth equal to a current season, or maybe slightly less just in case one dies in the interim.

The loser's mentality is that future seasons are always more valuable than the current one unless you look like the favorite to win a title in the current season. What that anounts to is just a fan of imaginary teams over real teams. It's being a fan of hypothetical teams over real ones. Just a difference in entertainment preferences. For me, my imagination is way, way doper than getting off on draft picks of 18 year olds. Sports are for now.

We are 100 percent in agreement. I have no interest in a organization that tanks. OKC is trash to me and unless they win a championship they will remain trash forever. Same for the 76ers. Their window is just about closed after being the most notorious tankers(losers) in sports history.

LMFAO are you aware of the fact that OKC has the same winning record with the Bulls and they even did sweep the Bulls this season?

You root for the team that was crushed by the trash team?

And OKC got their best player named SGA by trading their all star which was an excellent move. They didn't get their best player by losing tons of games on purpose.

On the other hand Bulls' best player is a 33-year-old offensive player and their second best player is a max player who doesn't contribute on winning like a max player does.

SGA gonna make the ALL-NBA 1st team while your max player didn't even manage to make the all-star selection. And yet you called OKC trash.

And didn't you post that you would not watch Bulls games for some time few months ago? Did you actually watch the Bulls' games?