Replace Clyde on the 90-92 Portland with any peak HOF SG except MJ how do they fare?

[FuShengTHEGreat]

In 1990 Portland lost to Detroit rather lopsided and Clyde had a very fantastic individual series. But aside from game 3 where he played poorly it was a razor thin margin of defeat in all the other games in the series.

1991 was a very razor thin game 6 loss in a series they should've won imho Clyde underperformed and just could not adjust to the slower tempo LA played at.

1992 probably the most daunting task in NBA Finals for any player in history going up against a hyper motivated peak MJ and also Pippen who was fast emerging and probably the best defensive (if not already all around) SF. Both were around their athletic zeniths. Even though Clyde shot poorly...he still put up a respectable 25/8/8.

Looking back at the 91 and 92 losses razor thin game 6 defeats, Clyde could not play as effective offensively in the halfcourt when the pace slowed.

With imho 3 HOF SGs I'd rank ahead of Clyde in no particular order:

West, Kobe, Wade

Who were better scorers than Clyde when the pace of games slowed....how would any of them fared individually/and Portland as a team in Clydes shoes those years, especially given how close those losses were?

[tsherkin]

West, Kobe and Wade as you mentioned would be good choices. 01-03 McGrady would be an interesting discussion, particularly in a faster-paced environment with a much better team than his Orlando squads.

If you start opening it up to others in Clyde's size range, there are a couple of SFs worth mentioning, but that's a pretty solid list based on just HOF shooting guards and not swings or points.

[penbeast0]

And of course West was primarily a PG in his career.

[tsherkin]

And of course West was primarily a PG in his career.

Indeed.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

West, Kobe and Wade as you mentioned would be good choices. 01-03 McGrady would be an interesting discussion, particularly in a faster-paced environment with a much better team than his Orlando squads.

If you start opening it up to others in Clyde's size range, there are a couple of SFs worth mentioning, but that's a pretty solid list based on just HOF shooting guards and not swings or points.

Could you see any of the aforementioned players faring betting than Clyde did? Was a title possible within that 3 year span?

[prolific passer]

Hmmm. I'm thinking of Earl Monroe.

[penbeast0]

I'm thinking Magic (who played the 2 through 83 when they dealt Norm Nixon for the right to pick Byron Scott). That front line of Duckworth, Buck, and Kersey can score but they aren't great rebounders and they are poor playmakers. Magic gives them size, passing, rebounding, everything but great spacing.

Prime Manu would be another good fit as you have Drazen in 90, then Ainge in 91 and 92, to help fill the minutes at the 2.

[AEnigma]

Wade or Kobe I definitely think could put them over the top in that period, although asking how many titles is a tough question. I would expect one, and could see two.

West, I guess if you give him nice translation, similar idea.

Brandon Roy and McGrady lack any real playoff sample by which I can judge them. Roy I think is also a worse defender and that allows both Jordan and Dumars to have an easier time.

Reggie Miller is a fascinating one to consider. I do think he is a better playoff performer than Drexler, although again, not the most potent defensive option.

Butler and Paul George are a bit inconsistent but improve the defence and should still offer more offensively than Drexler. George obviously would be a problem if allowed to shoot the way he does today.

Harden fits that team well, although I have concerns about his translation against that level of wing defence.

Manu, maybe. I guess tracking his 2005 postseason load, I could see a title, but realistically he never replicated that (also true of Brandon Roy).

Shai of course would win three titles easy.

[KobesScarf]

I think with Kpbe they lose in gane 7 of the Finals all 3 years

[KobesScarf]

Butler and Paul George are a bit inconsistent but improve the defence

Drexler is significantly better defensively than Jimmy or PG

[rk2023]

Butler and Paul George are a bit inconsistent but improve the defence

Drexler is significantly better defensively than Jimmy or PG

Why?

[Owly]

I'm thinking Magic (who played the 2 through 83 when they dealt Norm Nixon for the right to pick Byron Scott). That front line of Duckworth, Buck, and Kersey can score but they aren't great rebounders and they are poor playmakers. Magic gives them size, passing, rebounding, everything but great spacing.

Prime Manu would be another good fit as you have Drazen in 90, then Ainge in 91 and 92, to help fill the minutes at the 2.

If one is the type to weight playoff performances heavily (I'm not) then Drazen's a bad playoff faller, from a productivity baseline that's already lower than his star status (the sample here is 609 career playoff minutes) and so might not be considered such an asset as a potential sponge for additional minutes. Not necessarily my view, but I'll acknowledge that the stats are there for it.

[henshao]

You guys think Gervin would be an upgrade or a sidegrade? In spite of Drexler shooting a lot more threes (unavailable to the Iceman in the NBA for some time) Gervin was putting up more points more efficiently at his peak. However this is probably his only area of superiority (passing, rebounding, defense)

Vince Carter is not someone we (I) think of as a lead-his-team-to-the-promised-land kind of guy but he might have been too good for it too matter at his peak

[TheLand13]

Butler and Paul George are a bit inconsistent but improve the defence

Drexler is significantly better defensively than Jimmy or PG

Significantly better?

I find the idea of Drexler being better than them defensively to be a stretch in of itself. But SIGNIFICANTLY? I really want to hear the argument for this one.

[RCM88x]

You guys think Gervin would be an upgrade or a sidegrade? In spite of Drexler shooting a lot more threes (unavailable to the Iceman in the NBA for some time) Gervin was putting up more points more efficiently at his peak. However this is probably his only area of superiority (passing, rebounding, defense)

Vince Carter is not someone we (I) think of as a lead-his-team-to-the-promised-land kind of guy but he might have been too good for it too matter at his peak

Significantly worse defensively, I think it would be a downgrade.


Wade is probably the only guy I feel would be a clear upgrade here, better on offense and equivalent or better defensively. Certainly a different style of play however, more helio and less of a swingman style of offense. Kobe is the other guy I'll mention, their styles are just so different it's hard for me to project as much there. I question if he'd be as good defensively although he's definitely a better half court scorer.

[tsherkin]

I'm thinking Magic (who played the 2 through 83 when they dealt Norm Nixon for the right to pick Byron Scott). That front line of Duckworth, Buck, and Kersey can score but they aren't great rebounders and they are poor playmakers. Magic gives them size, passing, rebounding, everything but great spacing.

Oh, you dirty cheater. I love it. Magic as a 2 would be nasty for those Blazers. xD Nice one.

Could you see any of the aforementioned players faring betting than Clyde did? Was a title possible within that 3 year span?

I don't see them winning in 91 or 92, no. In 1990, Isiah took them for a ride and a half. I don't think they'd do much better with any of those guys because they had a defensive failing at the point in that series. Zeke put like 28/7 on them on something like 63% TS. Drexler was around 26/8/6 on almost 60% TS. Offensive upgrade wasn't going to do it. Detroit obliterated them on the offensive glass, Zeke tore them up... I don't think they had it that year.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I watched a lot of this Portland team. They were deep and really should have won multiple rings. I think with Kobe they get 90 and 91, 92 would be an awesome series to watch, not sure how it would go.

Wade could win it in 90 perhaps, but I don't like his style of play against the Bad Boys. They would NOT allow him into the lane without lots of hard fouls. I also don't think his offensive range is deep enough against the Bulls. Clyde was better for that team

West would need to play PG, and that redundant with Porter.

Tmac in the playoffs is...hmmm yeh nope

[tsherkin]

You guys think Gervin would be an upgrade or a sidegrade? In spite of Drexler shooting a lot more threes (unavailable to the Iceman in the NBA for some time) Gervin was putting up more points more efficiently at his peak. However this is probably his only area of superiority (passing, rebounding, defense)

Probably a downgrade. Worse defensively, not as good a rebounder, not as good a playmaker. Better scorer, that's it. Portland needed more than just points.

Vince Carter is not someone we (I) think of as a lead-his-team-to-the-promised-land kind of guy but he might have been too good for it too matter at his peak

I don't think he'd have done it, even in his 2000 form, good as he was then when he was playing aggressive basketball.

I watched a lot of this Portland team. They were deep and really should have won multiple rings. I think with Kobe they get 90 and 91, 92 would be an awesome series to watch, not sure how it would go.

1990, maybe. They wouldn't beat the Bulls either year, though.

Wade could win it in 90 perhaps, but I don't like his style of play against the Bad Boys. They would NOT allow him into the lane without lots of hard fouls.

He got lots of hard fouls in his own career, so this is no different. Being able to play at 102+ possessions per game would open up his ability to ruin the opposition in transition, though, which would matter.

Tmac in the playoffs is...hmmm yeh nope

What a take. He was a monster in the playoffs. He just had nothing to work with, and then his body fell apart. On a team like Portland where he actually had healthy, balanced talent? You're talking about a guy who averaged 33.8 and 30.8 ppg in the 01 and 02 playoffs (league-high, both years) on some properly objectionable rosters.

[homecourtloss]

I watched a lot of this Portland team. They were deep and really should have won multiple rings. I think with Kobe they get 90 and 91, 92 would be an awesome series to watch, not sure how it would go.

Wade could win it in 90 perhaps, but I don't like his style of play against the Bad Boys. They would NOT allow him into the lane without lots of hard fouls. I also don't think his offensive range is deep enough against the Bulls. Clyde was better for that team

West would need to play PG, and that redundant with Porter.

Tmac in the playoffs is...hmmm yeh nope

I’d take peak Wade, West, or Kobe over peak Drexler, and I think they win at least one championship.

Not directly answering the OP’s question, but related to what you’re saying about this team in the ‘90-‘92 stretch: replace Duckworth with any decent defensive big and the Blazers likely win multiple titles.

During this stretch, the Blazers had a top 3-top 4 defense every year with a center who relatively speaking competing agisnt other 5s in the league could not a) defend the rim nor defend in space; b) was a trash rebounder c) low efficiency scorer.

Kersey was a high impact defender and Terry Porter might be one of the most underrated players ever. These guys brought great value and impact to this team. Replace Duckworth with any decent defensive+rebounding big and that team becomes an absolute monster.

[magicman1978]

Not directly answering the OP’s question, but related to what you’re saying about this team in the ‘90-‘92 stretch: replace Duckworth with any decent defensive big and the Blazers likely win multiple titles.

During this stretch, the Blazers had a top 3-top 4 defense every year with a center who relatively speaking competing agisnt other 5s in the league could not a) defend the rim nor defend in space; b) was a trash rebounder c) low efficiency scorer.

I feel like this could describe Bill Cartwright as well. Two of the best teams in the league at the time, held back because they didn't realize how terrible their centers were.