Is it really the yanks that struggle?

[Jitpal]

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You are talking out of your ass, seriously. You mean to tell me pitchers buckle down against the Yankees and take it easier on Manny and Ortiz??? Are you that stupid??? The point here is that Manny and David are better batters than A-Rod. If you want to talk all around, I guess you can say A-Rod, but I would even question if the clutchness and ability to control a game the way Manny and Ortiz can cancels the fact that A-Rod plays D and they don't. I mean being paid the most and you can't even put up the kind of numbers the other guys are really questions why exactly anyone would look into a Red Sox fans eye and say A-Rod is the best in the game when A-Rod can't touch Manny or Ortiz after 162 games. And in the end, thats where it really counts.

We all said MJ was the best to do it, but he didn't do it in one time, against weak teams. He showed up for weak teams, better teams, and last but definatly not least in the playoffs. Some A-Rod isn't and Manny and Ortiz do season in and season out.

I think the Ortiz/Manny comparison to Arod isn't valid. Ortiz and Manny feed off each other and what a pitcher does to one directly impacts what they do to the other. Arod doesn't really have that guy to gel with. He had Sheffield and he did well and now he has Abreu and he is doing well. Last year, when he didn't have Sheff the whole year, they couldn't feed off each other. Abreu came too late to really make a difference. This year Arod was just so off the charts that he really didn't need someone to feed off of and the 2nd half Abreu got it together and got Arod some pitches. However, Abreu is still no where near the hitter Sheffield was or what Manny/Ortiz are now. We just don't have that other guy for Arod to feed off of. Arod is plenty clutch, he just doesn't have that other guy. -Jitpal

[TKF]

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You are talking out of your ass, seriously. You mean to tell me pitchers buckle down against the Yankees and take it easier on Manny and Ortiz??? Are you that stupid??? The point here is that Manny and David are better batters than A-Rod. If you want to talk all around, I guess you can say A-Rod, but I would even question if the clutchness and ability to control a game the way Manny and Ortiz can cancels the fact that A-Rod plays D and they don't. I mean being paid the most and you can't even put up the kind of numbers the other guys are really questions why exactly anyone would look into a Red Sox fans eye and say A-Rod is the best in the game when A-Rod can't touch Manny or Ortiz after 162 games. And in the end, thats where it really counts.

We all said MJ was the best to do it, but he didn't do it in one time, against weak teams. He showed up for weak teams, better teams, and last but definatly not least in the playoffs. Some A-Rod isn't and Manny and Ortiz do season in and season out.

Do you want to have a conversation? or do you want to sit here and name call all day. I can easily ask are you that dumb? can you read and comprehend? I suggest you cool your tone..

If you can just read and follow what is written and stop making conclusions of your own, my question behind that as that A-rod being the highest paid player in baseball, often hated, two time and soon to be three time MVP in the last 5 years seems to be held to different standards. honestly do you think that if A-rod had the same type of year ortiz or manny had, that he would not get hung? and stop with this clutchness! manny and david with all their clutchness could not even get their teams into the postseason last year!!!! A-rod singlehandedly prettymuch dragged the yanks into the playoffs. But again, teams and players seem to apporach him differently, manny hits a homer and stands at home plate watching until the ball lands and it is all OK.. A-rod runs by a guy catching a pop up, yells and all hell breaks lose. It seems as if when facing A-rod and the yankees, that is a chance for other teams t stick it to the richest team in baseball, and in A-rod a chance to stick it to the good looking guy, with all the talent in the world and a 250 mil contract. you can act as if ortiz and manny are on that level, but then I would have to question if you are then talking out of your ass... You know what.... no need asking... I already see your angle....

only a person with a juvenile mindset would conclude from what I said that manny and ortiz are given a break and A-rod isn't, but it does seem that guys seem like they take it up a notch against the yanks and A-rod, and this is to take nothing from ortiz and manny, but it just seems like the case. I am sure the same things happened to Barry Bonds. I don't see why that is so much out of the real of possibility...

lata...

[TKF]

My lord.. the intention of this thread for those who can't seem to comprehend on an adult level was not to say that against the yankees teams pitch overhand and agains the competition they take a day off and pitch underhand. Or they intentionally swing at balls out of the strikezone vs other teams and only at strikes vs the yankees..

The premise behind this thread was to basically say that maybe it isn't the yankees are really struggling, but teams raise their level of play vs theyankees and like the teams of the 90's and 2000 this yankee team is going to have to play at even a higher level, since teams seem to bring their best vs the yankees. It is not that hard to figure out, I am sure the bulls went through this, the patriots do now, teams seem to raise their level when playing them and for good reason, when you have a track record of repeated success, you become a target, it is up to your team, not to just play well, but raise your level of play. It just seemed at times that the yankees are struggling or they tighten up, maybe that is part of it, but maybe the yankees being who they are have to have to continue to raise their level, guys like brosius, oneil, and jeter seemed to do this on a contiual basis, along with pitchers like petitie and El duque, those guys always took it to another level. maybe that is what we are missing, moreso than the notion that we are not playing well.

again, just a thought and for those who can seem to get past the juvenile thinking that this thread is about teams taking it easy on other guys like ortiz and manny , I thank you for not stooping to such levels...

[SugeKnight718]

My lord.. the intention of this thread for those who can't seem to comprehend on an adult level was not to say that against the yankees teams pitch overhand and agains the competition they take a day off and pitch underhand. Or they intentionally swing at balls out of the strikezone vs other teams and only at strikes vs the yankees..

The premise behind this thread was to basically say that maybe it isn't the yankees are really struggling, but teams raise their level of play vs theyankees and like the teams of the 90's and 2000 this yankee team is going to have to play at even a higher level, since teams seem to bring their best vs the yankees. It is not that hard to figure out, I am sure the bulls went through this, the patriots do now, teams seem to raise their level when playing them and for good reason, when you have a track record of repeated success, you become a target, it is up to your team, not to just play well, but raise your level of play. It just seemed at times that the yankees are struggling or they tighten up, maybe that is part of it, but maybe the yankees being who they are have to have to continue to raise their level, guys like brosius, oneil, and jeter seemed to do this on a contiual basis, along with pitchers like petitie and El duque, those guys always took it to another level. maybe that is what we are missing, moreso than the notion that we are not playing well.

again, just a thought and for those who can seem to get past the juvenile thinking that this thread is about teams taking it easy on other guys like ortiz and manny , I thank you for not stooping to such levels...

Well its the fact that you are making it seem that pitchers don't come out to try and beat the Red Sox that gets me pissed. Yes they are the Yankees, but its not like they've been winning lately, hell, how many players from the 90s teams are on the team now??? You're making it out to be that the Yankees have a bullseye on them when they don't. They just don't have the big time player, they rises for big games when you are the big name big franshise player. I'm not saying A-Rod isn't a good player, but you get paid that much and have a disappearing act in the playoffs year in and year out, how do you defend this??? He took this team to the playoffs single handedly??? Lemme show you something.

There is no I in team. Yes A-Rod did alot to get the Yankees to the playoffs, but it was big pitching performances as well, it was the emergence of young players that also helped get us into the playoffs. You want to talk about single handed??? Look at how many walk-offs Ortiz and Manny had this season. Look how many huge and I mean HUGE homeruns Ortiz and Manny have in the playoffs to put their teams in front??? Look at 2004 when we were up 3-0....its pretty much ONE PLAYER you point to....just one. You can't do the same with A-Rod, only on negative things.

A-Rod had a huge season, buit look at what Mike Lowell is doing behind these guys. I mean just yesterday, the guy had a HUGE homerun, that at the time, lookd like the game winning shot. Lemme ask you something, someone who is the best in the game right now, when was the last time A-Rod had a huge homerun in the postseason since coming here???

Like I said, A-Rod is a great talent, and at times is seemigly held to a double standard compared to other players, but its almost like he deserves to be held to that double standard. You know a familiar statement along the lines of stars are made in the postseason. When did A-Rod do this in pinstripes??? How did he do absolutely nothing in pinstripes in recent years and is the best in the game. Shouldn't that be players like Ortiz or Manny that in essence is like a Mariano with a bat---if hes in and the game is on the line, the game is over, Ortiz or Manny will win it?? A-Rod is nowhere on that level.

All in all, all I'm trying to say is that 90% of Yankee fans would take Ortiz's or Manny's bat before A-Rod, and the 10% just want to see homeruns, screw winning..The whole thing about what you thought about what the premise of this thread is means nothing, its about what people have to say, and others responding. There is no point of making another thread about this topic. It had to do with the way the Yankees were playing against the Indians, and I brought up how Manny and Ortiz do what they do in the postseason year in and year out and people still have the nerve to say A-Rod's the best. And don't get it twisted, I'm a Yankee fan, go to more games than many of you guys combined and oif course I hope A-Rod comes back, but when you get the money you are opting out to get, this is the conversation that will follow you of course until a ring comes to a team that he is on.

[TKF]

Well its the fact that you are making it seem that pitchers don't come out to try and beat the Red Sox that gets me pissed. Yes they are the Yankees, but its not like they've been winning lately, hell, how many players from the 90s teams are on the team now??? You're making it out to be that the Yankees have a bullseye on them when they don't. They just don't have the big time player, they rises for big games when you are the big name big franshise player. I'm not saying A-Rod isn't a good player, but you get paid that much and have a disappearing act in the playoffs year in and year out, how do you defend this??? He took this team to the playoffs single handedly??? Lemme show you something.

There is no I in team. Yes A-Rod did alot to get the Yankees to the playoffs, but it was big pitching performances as well, it was the emergence of young players that also helped get us into the playoffs. You want to talk about single handed??? Look at how many walk-offs Ortiz and Manny had this season. Look how many huge and I mean HUGE homeruns Ortiz and Manny have in the playoffs to put their teams in front??? Look at 2004 when we were up 3-0....its pretty much ONE PLAYER you point to....just one. You can't do the same with A-Rod, only on negative things.

A-Rod had a huge season, buit look at what Mike Lowell is doing behind these guys. I mean just yesterday, the guy had a HUGE homerun, that at the time, lookd like the game winning shot. Lemme ask you something, someone who is the best in the game right now, when was the last time A-Rod had a huge homerun in the postseason since coming here???

Like I said, A-Rod is a great talent, and at times is seemigly held to a double standard compared to other players, but its almost like he deserves to be held to that double standard. You know a familiar statement along the lines of stars are made in the postseason. When did A-Rod do this in pinstripes??? How did he do absolutely nothing in pinstripes in recent years and is the best in the game. Shouldn't that be players like Ortiz or Manny that in essence is like a Mariano with a bat---if hes in and the game is on the line, the game is over, Ortiz or Manny will win it?? A-Rod is nowhere on that level.

All in all, all I'm trying to say is that 90% of Yankee fans would take Ortiz's or Manny's bat before A-Rod, and the 10% just want to see homeruns, screw winning..The whole thing about what you thought about what the premise of this thread is means nothing, its about what people have to say, and others responding. There is no point of making another thread about this topic. It had to do with the way the Yankees were playing against the Indians, and I brought up how Manny and Ortiz do what they do in the postseason year in and year out and people still have the nerve to say A-Rod's the best. And don't get it twisted, I'm a Yankee fan, go to more games than many of you guys combined and oif course I hope A-Rod comes back, but when you get the money you are opting out to get, this is the conversation that will follow you of course until a ring comes to a team that he is on.

How is that a fact? I made it clear that was not what I said, you are pissing yourself off by not being able to comprehend what I wrote. It is simple, I never said pitchers take it easy on other batters, and I am not going to repeat what I said. you will just have to go back and read and try to understand what I simply stated..

I think you miss the whole point here, this is not about A-rod, I don't know why you are on that so much. Sometimes teams will buckle down on your best player and it is up to the other guys to step up, and as we have seen those guys haven't, some have underachieved, some have maintained, but none have excelled, guys like brosuis, Oneil who would bat .275 during the regular season whould hit .333 in the playoffs, that is what we miss, this is not about A-rod or the fact that you think I am saying that pitchers take it easy on manny and ortiz, this is about the yanks over the years not raising their games, and it all does not rest on the shoulders of A-rod either. And yes the yankees will always have the target on their backs. I mean come on who else does? the sox? LOL.. Angels? cleveland? Tampa bay? Baltimore? wake up man when you win 4 world series rings, play in 6 WS in the past 11 season while winning 9 division titles, you have a big bulls eye! To think otherwise is foolish.


you sound a bit bitter that people didn't agree with how you feel about ortiz and manny , and the reason why people still would take A-rod over manny and ortiz is because he is just better. Better at the plate, in the field and on the bases , overall it is not even close. And guess what, some guys are just clutch. Again scott brosius would not come to mind if people were chosing 3rd basemen, but in the playoffs he is a beast. Does that mean I take him over david wright? Mark lemke formerly of the braves was a playoff stud, could not get himout, had a knack for gettign huge clutchs hit in the postseason, but would I take him over any of the great 2nd basemen of his time? hell no... Lets put it this way, with the season manny and ortiz had this year, had you replaced A-rod with any of them, the yankees would not had made the playoffs, just like boston last year.. and that is real talk....

[SugeKnight718]

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How is that a fact? I made it clear that was not what I said, you are pissing yourself off by not being able to comprehend what I wrote. It is simple, I never said pitchers take it easy on other batters, and I am not going to repeat what I said. you will just have to go back and read and try to understand what I simply stated..

I think you miss the whole point here, this is not about A-rod, I don't know why you are on that so much. Sometimes teams will buckle down on your best player and it is up to the other guys to step up, and as we have seen those guys haven't, some have underachieved, some have maintained, but none have excelled, guys like brosuis, Oneil who would bat .275 during the regular season whould hit .333 in the playoffs, that is what we miss, this is not about A-rod or the fact that you think I am saying that pitchers take it easy on manny and ortiz, this is about the yanks over the years not raising their games, and it all does not rest on the shoulders of A-rod either. And yes the yankees will always have the target on their backs. I mean come on who else does? the sox? LOL.. Angels? cleveland? Tampa bay? Baltimore? wake up man when you win 4 world series rings, play in 6 WS in the past 11 season while winning 9 division titles, you have a big bulls eye! To think otherwise is foolish.


you sound a bit bitter that people didn't agree with how you feel about ortiz and manny , and the reason why people still would take A-rod over manny and ortiz is because he is just better. Better at the plate, in the field and on the bases , overall it is not even close. And guess what, some guys are just clutch. Again scott brosius would not come to mind if people were chosing 3rd basemen, but in the playoffs he is a beast. Does that mean I take him over david wright? Mark lemke formerly of the braves was a playoff stud, could not get himout, had a knack for gettign huge clutchs hit in the postseason, but would I take him over any of the great 2nd basemen of his time? hell no... Lets put it this way, with the season manny and ortiz had this year, had you replaced A-rod with any of them, the yankees would not had made the playoffs, just like boston last year.. and that is real talk....

A few points I'm gonna call you out on, would love to hear what you have to say in response. I bolded the parts you should consider editing. First I want to say when you say other teams buckle down, it just seems to me that you are pretty much saying guys buckle down more on A-Rod than on Manny and Ortiz which is nuts. I'm telling you right now, in the postseason, NOONE is scared of A-Rod. NOONE. I was at the Game 4 in which Paul Byrd did his best impersonation of Cy Young, and he wasn't afriad of A-Rod early in the game when we could have even things out, and what did he do, strike him out, rather easily. There was no mound visit, no catcher going up to go speak to him, NOTHING. You think that happens when Ortiz or Manny come up. Watch tonight if Manny or Ortiz come up in a big spot and watch the near nervousness that turns out. When you talk in the conversation and you say something like that, you make it sound as if pitchers buckles down more on A-Rod than Manny and Ortiz. If you think I'm thinking too much into it, then believe but you want, but thats what you are portraying.

This thread wasn't about A-Rod, but watching how Manny and Ortiz were playing earlier in the series and against the Angels, it made me point this out. Hearing how Boras, even though it is Boras, making it sound like A-Rod is really worth more than 300 million but is ok taking the 300, made me get pissed. Let the guy do something worth 300 million dollars and then talk like that.

I think its really just you with the whole target thing. There may be some hatred or jealousy of the winning but last I checked, the Yankees DIDN'T win the division title last season. Last I checked the Yankees HAVEN'T been in the WS since 2003. Last I checked the Yankees HAVEN'T won a WS since 2000. Last I checked, the Yankees HAVEN'T been past the ALDS since 2004. (And don't let me get started on that 2004 ALCS) Last I checked, There are barely ANY Yankees from those successful teams on the team right now, and barely any guys from that time that are on other teams still playing against us. My friend, you barely have a bullseye when you barely do anything in the postseason. Barely any post season success doesn't lead to a big bulls eye because of somethings you did years back. A REAL bullseye is on a team that have been winning recently!!! Thats a real bullseye. 1996-2001 Yankees had a bullseye. Spurs had a bullseye. Lakers had a bulls eye. Since Jorge made that last out in the WS in 2003, the bullseye has LONG GONE. Of course we are the team to beat, but nothing more, no longer a bullseye.

Better at the plate??? A-Rod is better at the plate than Manny and Ortiz?!?! Why because he hits solo homeruns and they hit game winning 3-run shots?? Because of this one season he is better than Manny and Ortiz??? I'm a die hard Yankee fans, and pains me to say it, but there is a reason why the Red Sox are playing right now and the Yankees aren't. Like I said, almost every other facet of the game, I'll give it to you, A-Rod is better, but I honestly wouldn't get on anybody if they told me that what Manny and Ortiz does in big spots and what A-Rod DOESN'T do in big spots puts Ortiz and Manny over A-Rod.

And the one point I wanted to point out, like I said, you may be new to this Yankee thing, because we don't go crazy over regular season stats. You can be MVP and get flamed for a very long time if there isn't a perade after that. Lemme point out something you may have missed. Yes it MAY be true about what A-Rod did in DURING THE SEASON. But Do you think we aren't playing right now if Ortiz or Manny was on this team today??? What you seem to be missing about what A-Rod did and the Red Sox NOT playing in the postseason last seaon is the same thing A-Rod is missing and Manny and Ortiz aren't. You should know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Yes the Red Sox missed the playoffs last year, mostly due to injuries but Im not going to sit there and make excuses for them, but like I said, its not about JUST THE PLAYOFFS. Its about the parade...something Manny and Ortiz have done IN BOSTON, where they thought they would never win a ring, and A-Rod hasn't and has more than two seasons under his belt IN NEW YORK.

Like I said, this is bigger than just the regular season. We played 5 extra games because A-Rod had a big season. But in Yankeeland, especially today more than ever, we don't care HOW we make the playoffs. Its WHAT WE DO IN THE PLAYOFFS THAT MATTER!!!! It seems your too hooked on homeruns and not lets go out and WIN A RING!!! like the traditional way in Yankee land.

[Scrub Sura]

This guy was lights out against us, having the best pitching performance of his life, but gets blown out of the water against the bosox? We are the better hitting team.. why did this guy own us?

Because you're just not as good as you want to believe.

Hell, without A-Rod, this team doesn't even capture the Wild Card.

I know all of you want to believe MLB revolves around Boston and New York because ESPN says so, but that's far from the truth.

As we speak, Boston seems to be suffering from that same "pressure of expectations". Even though we all know it's just a thinly veiled excuse.

But hey..whatever helps you guys sleep at night

[TKF]

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How is that a fact? I made it clear that was not what I said, you are pissing yourself off by not being able to comprehend what I wrote. It is simple, I never said pitchers take it easy on other batters, and I am not going to repeat what I said. you will just have to go back and read and try to understand what I simply stated..

I think you miss the whole point here, this is not about A-rod, I don't know why you are on that so much. Sometimes teams will buckle down on your best player and it is up to the other guys to step up, and as we have seen those guys haven't, some have underachieved, some have maintained, but none have excelled, guys like brosuis, Oneil who would bat .275 during the regular season whould hit .333 in the playoffs, that is what we miss, this is not about A-rod or the fact that you think I am saying that pitchers take it easy on manny and ortiz, this is about the yanks over the years not raising their games, and it all does not rest on the shoulders of A-rod either. And yes the yankees will always have the target on their backs. I mean come on who else does? the sox? LOL.. Angels? cleveland? Tampa bay? Baltimore? wake up man when you win 4 world series rings, play in 6 WS in the past 11 season while winning 9 division titles, you have a big bulls eye! To think otherwise is foolish.


you sound a bit bitter that people didn't agree with how you feel about ortiz and manny , and the reason why people still would take A-rod over manny and ortiz is because he is just better. Better at the plate, in the field and on the bases , overall it is not even close. And guess what, some guys are just clutch. Again scott brosius would not come to mind if people were chosing 3rd basemen, but in the playoffs he is a beast. Does that mean I take him over david wright? Mark lemke formerly of the braves was a playoff stud, could not get himout, had a knack for gettign huge clutchs hit in the postseason, but would I take him over any of the great 2nd basemen of his time? hell no... Lets put it this way, with the season manny and ortiz had this year, had you replaced A-rod with any of them, the yankees would not had made the playoffs, just like boston last year.. and that is real talk....

A few points I'm gonna call you out on, would love to hear what you have to say in response. I bolded the parts you should consider editing. First I want to say when you say other teams buckle down, it just seems to me that you are pretty much saying guys buckle down more on A-Rod than on Manny and Ortiz which is nuts. I'm telling you right now, in the postseason, NOONE is scared of A-Rod. NOONE. I was at the Game 4 in which Paul Byrd did his best impersonation of Cy Young, and he wasn't afriad of A-Rod early in the game when we could have even things out, and what did he do, strike him out, rather easily. There was no mound visit, no catcher going up to go speak to him, NOTHING. You think that happens when Ortiz or Manny come up. Watch tonight if Manny or Ortiz come up in a big spot and watch the near nervousness that turns out. When you talk in the conversation and you say something like that, you make it sound as if pitchers buckles down more on A-Rod than Manny and Ortiz. If you think I'm thinking too much into it, then believe but you want, but thats what you are portraying.

This thread wasn't about A-Rod, but watching how Manny and Ortiz were playing earlier in the series and against the Angels, it made me point this out. Hearing how Boras, even though it is Boras, making it sound like A-Rod is really worth more than 300 million but is ok taking the 300, made me get pissed. Let the guy do something worth 300 million dollars and then talk like that.

I think its really just you with the whole target thing. There may be some hatred or jealousy of the winning but last I checked, the Yankees DIDN'T win the division title last season. Last I checked the Yankees HAVEN'T been in the WS since 2003. Last I checked the Yankees HAVEN'T won a WS since 2000. Last I checked, the Yankees HAVEN'T been past the ALDS since 2004. (And don't let me get started on that 2004 ALCS) Last I checked, There are barely ANY Yankees from those successful teams on the team right now, and barely any guys from that time that are on other teams still playing against us. My friend, you barely have a bullseye when you barely do anything in the postseason. Barely any post season success doesn't lead to a big bulls eye because of somethings you did years back. A REAL bullseye is on a team that have been winning recently!!! Thats a real bullseye. 1996-2001 Yankees had a bullseye. Spurs had a bullseye. Lakers had a bulls eye. Since Jorge made that last out in the WS in 2003, the bullseye has LONG GONE. Of course we are the team to beat, but nothing more, no longer a bullseye.

Better at the plate??? A-Rod is better at the plate than Manny and Ortiz?!?! Why because he hits solo homeruns and they hit game winning 3-run shots?? Because of this one season he is better than Manny and Ortiz??? I'm a die hard Yankee fans, and pains me to say it, but there is a reason why the Red Sox are playing right now and the Yankees aren't. Like I said, almost every other facet of the game, I'll give it to you, A-Rod is better, but I honestly wouldn't get on anybody if they told me that what Manny and Ortiz does in big spots and what A-Rod DOESN'T do in big spots puts Ortiz and Manny over A-Rod.

And the one point I wanted to point out, like I said, you may be new to this Yankee thing, because we don't go crazy over regular season stats. You can be MVP and get flamed for a very long time if there isn't a perade after that. Lemme point out something you may have missed. Yes it MAY be true about what A-Rod did in DURING THE SEASON. But Do you think we aren't playing right now if Ortiz or Manny was on this team today??? What you seem to be missing about what A-Rod did and the Red Sox NOT playing in the postseason last seaon is the same thing A-Rod is missing and Manny and Ortiz aren't. You should know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Yes the Red Sox missed the playoffs last year, mostly due to injuries but Im not going to sit there and make excuses for them, but like I said, its not about JUST THE PLAYOFFS. Its about the parade...something Manny and Ortiz have done IN BOSTON, where they thought they would never win a ring, and A-Rod hasn't and has more than two seasons under his belt IN NEW YORK.

Like I said, this is bigger than just the regular season. We played 5 extra games because A-Rod had a big season. But in Yankeeland, especially today more than ever, we don't care HOW we make the playoffs. Its WHAT WE DO IN THE PLAYOFFS THAT MATTER!!!! It seems your too hooked on homeruns and not lets go out and WIN A RING!!! like the traditional way in Yankee land.

I can't believe you wrote this.. I mean it is a lot of rambling that doesn't make sense, but i will endulge... LOL.. OK..

I think its really just you with the whole target thing. There may be some hatred or jealousy of the winning but last I checked, the Yankees DIDN'T win the division title last season. Last I checked the Yankees HAVEN'T been in the WS since 2003. Last I checked the Yankees HAVEN'T won a WS since 2000. Last I checked, the Yankees HAVEN'T been past the ALDS since 2004. (And don't let me get started on that 2004 ALCS)

You act as if 2000 is so long ago, or taht 2003 was ages ago. that was just 6 seasons bro. The fact that the yankees have been a model of consistent winning since then says a lot. How many teams have appeard in 3 world series since 2000 winning 1, and winning the division every year since 2000. YES when you do that, the target remains on your back homie!!!!!!!!!! We won the division 9 straight years from 98-2006, no other team has done that, hell yes we have been the team to beat.... teams have gotten hot and won a WS, but then faded, teams like the marlins, angels and even white sox and the red sox who missed the playoffs last year.. we have been the model of excellence and consistency..

the Yankees DIDN'T win the division title last season.

Last time I CHECKED... They did... you need to re- check..

Better at the plate??? A-Rod is better at the plate than Manny and Ortiz?!?! Why because he hits solo homeruns and they hit game winning 3-run shots?? Because of this one season he is better than Manny and Ortiz??? I

No better at the plate becuase he hits for more power, and he hits for average, and look at his stats at what he has done late in games this year and how many game winning or go ahead RBI's the guy had.. i think he was near the top of the league this year... why don't you check that...

Like I said, this is bigger than just the regular season. We played 5 extra games because A-Rod had a big season. But in Yankeeland, especially today more than ever, we don't care HOW we make the playoffs. Its WHAT WE DO IN THE PLAYOFFS THAT MATTER!!!! It seems your too hooked on homeruns and not lets go out and WIN A RING!!! like the traditional way in Yankee land

you are preaching to the choir. We all want to win the ring, are you nuts? But we must realize that winning the ring sometimes goes beyond talent, a lot of things have to fall into place, and when you are the yankees , teams are always gunning for you, and I guess the same can be said of boston, look at them now, they seem tight, it is tough playing with the bullseye and the fact that the yankees have done it for over a decade and has won 4 titles shows a lot... I mean look at how boston is struggling, manny and ortiz bouncing into rally killing DP's, ortiz running when he shouldn't getting hit by a ball in play, I mean come on man!!! I think a lot of us, including myself overreacted to this loss to cleveland, and being the yankees we will always have a target on our backs as long as we are winning and that always doesn't have to mean winning a ring, you can't win a WS every damn year. we got spoiled...

And FYI, pettite, rivera, posada, jeter those are 4 remnants from the dynasty years, I would hardly call that not having anyone left, but hey, do as you feel... I really don't understand what you are rambling about. you seem to have this thing against A-rod.... he is the best player in the game, great players struggle in the playoffs, Vlad, bonds, A-rod, it happens.. I really don't see your point with trying to compare manny and ortiz to him.. it is not even close..

[SugeKnight718]

You act as if 2000 is so long ago, or taht 2003 was ages ago. that was just 6 seasons bro. The fact that the yankees have been a model of consistent winning since then says a lot. How many teams have appeard in 3 world series since 2000 winning 1, and winning the division every year since 2000. YES when you do that, the target remains on your back homie!!!!!!!!!! We won the division 9 straight years from 98-2006, no other team has done that, hell yes we have been the team to beat.... teams have gotten hot and won a WS, but then faded, teams like the marlins, angels and even white sox and the red sox who missed the playoffs last year.. we have been the model of excellence and consistency..

In Yankee land that IS a long time. If you don't believe me ASK GEORGE STEINBRENNER. If 2000 wasn't so long ago, and 2003 wasn't ages ago, why the hell is every place you look that speaks about sports starts off with Joe Torre??? The Indians are now up 3-1, why are they talking Yankees for a segment?? Because in Yankee land (I know it may sound annoying using the term YankeeLand, but it is what it is) thats a while back, like I said, Ask George. You are using that target term too losely too. The Yankees don't have a target on their back just because of the regular season and what they've done in the past. You think the Chicago Bulls still have a target because of what MJ did back in the days. You think the Lakers still have a target on their back for what Kobe and Shaq did?? You think the A's still have a target on their back for all those WS they went to in the 80s. To me, having a target on your back is only for teams that rival each other, BoSox target is the Yankees, Mets target is the Braves, atleast when dealing with the NL East title. Other teams don't look at the Yankees as the competition they once were to put a target on them. Today, teams, year in and year out have their eyes on the prize of winning their division title, winning in the postseason, and winning a ring. There is no longer a team in the American League, and even the National League that you MUST pass to complete your goal. That being said, the Yankees cannot be a target because with no success in the postseason, you can't have a target for something you've done so long ago. It doesn't work.

the Yankees DIDN'T win the division title last season.


Last time I CHECKED... They did... you need to re- check..

Obviosly meaning last completed season, or are you just behind on everything you do???

No better at the plate becuase he hits for more power, and he hits for average, and look at his stats at what he has done late in games this year and how many game winning or go ahead RBI's the guy had.. i think he was near the top of the league this year... why don't you check that...

Uhhmmm, last I checked, David Ortiz had a better batting average than A-Rod last season (2007 season since you're still behind!!) with a shift that kills players batting averages (ask Giambi) And last I checked, Ramirez for his career has a better batting average than A-Rod. You might want to do a little research before calling someone out on something like that. Numbers don't lie. And my friend when comparing Ortiz and A-Rod, DO NOT bring up game-winning and go ahead RBIs. I don't care even about this season. DO NOT DO THAT. You make yourself look foolish. You wanna talk the same RBIs that A-Rod was seemingly having a problem coming across in the 5 games A-Rod played this offseason, while players like Ortiz and Manny got those RBIs with EASE in their playoff games???? Ortiz and A-Rod...you wannt talk about game winning RBIs?? Try doing that with someone that KNOWS baseball. You would look like a little kid that only thinks baseball is about homeruns. Even though it already does. Need I remind you that David Ortiz was injured with a knee problems and still put up those amazing numbers. This the same injury that was about to sideline the guy for the ALCS. It wasnt anything small and he STILL came out to play. Please do not make me defend a Red Sox like this again, it pains me more than you think.

I mean look at how boston is struggling, manny and ortiz bouncing into rally killing DP's, ortiz running when he shouldn't getting hit by a ball in play, I mean come on man!!! I think a lot of us, including myself overreacted to this loss to cleveland, and being the yankees we will always have a target on our backs as long as we are winning and that always doesn't have to mean winning a ring, you can't win a WS every damn year. we got spoiled...

Its not a matter of being spoiled. BUT WHAT HAVE WE WON!?!?!?! We haven't won ANYTHING since 2000. Winning in YankeeLand means A RING. We haven't won anything. Some people yes are over-reacting, but the over-reacting is with Joe Torre not with the team. No smart Yankee fans want the Yankees to blow up the team. The only over-reacting is blaming everything on Torre and wanting him gone, and thats not me. Again its not being spoiled its pointing out that A-Rod isn't worth what he's asking for when he can't put up near the numbers other guys are that are gettting paid 1/4th of what he does because at the end of the day in YankeeLand, what you do in the regular season means nothing. We want big numbers in the postseason. In some cases its step you game up, and in some cases like A-Rod's its continue what your doing.

And FYI, pettite, rivera, posada, jeter those are 4 remnants from the dynasty years, I would hardly call that not having anyone left, but hey, do as you feel... I really don't understand what you are rambling about. you seem to have this thing against A-rod.... he is the best player in the game, great players struggle in the playoffs, Vlad, bonds, A-rod, it happens.. I really don't see your point with trying to compare manny and ortiz to him.. it is not even close..

4 players, really 3 since Pettite just came back in my books is hardly having players from our dynasty. Thats a reason why Pettite came back smart one!!!! Its a fact that one of the motives behind bringing Pettite back was to bring a little of of the core that was around for dynasty back. We barely have any players like I said, and there are barely any players around point blank that are around now that was a victim of our wrath in the 90s.

My whole thing in this conversation is why I really hope you don't respond to this because you are missing the point that everyone else is getting except you. My whole point was that I WANT A-ROD BACK NEXT SEASON. But the thing I was trying to point out is its sad how blind people like yourself crown this man the best ever when he's done nothing really of importance except homeruns. Like I said, it seems you are more fascinated with homeruns. Yes, its absolutely possible A-Rod can break the homerun record, but as Yankee fans we really don't care. We aren't fascinated with stats in the regular season here mayn. Why should we crown this man the best when he doesn't perform when other 'bests' preform the best. MJ is the best, he performed in the postseason. Kobe can be the best, he preforms in the postseason. To me and many others, you should be able to do almost everything to be the best. Your agent sits on radio and talks how he really deserves over 30 million dollars a season, for what reason?? Yes its great what he did, but has he won a ring since he's been here??? Has he gotten a big hit that forced a game or won a series in the postseason?? Like I said, stars are made in the playoffs. If you are a star, and you don't do anything in the playoffs, how are you the best???[/quote]

[TKF]

You act as if 2000 is so long ago, or taht 2003 was ages ago. that was just 6 seasons bro. The fact that the yankees have been a model of consistent winning since then says a lot. How many teams have appeard in 3 world series since 2000 winning 1, and winning the division every year since 2000. YES when you do that, the target remains on your back homie!!!!!!!!!! We won the division 9 straight years from 98-2006, no other team has done that, hell yes we have been the team to beat.... teams have gotten hot and won a WS, but then faded, teams like the marlins, angels and even white sox and the red sox who missed the playoffs last year.. we have been the model of excellence and consistency..

In Yankee land that IS a long time. If you don't believe me ASK GEORGE STEINBRENNER. If 2000 wasn't so long ago, and 2003 wasn't ages ago, why the hell is every place you look that speaks about sports starts off with Joe Torre??? The Indians are now up 3-1, why are they talking Yankees for a segment?? Because in Yankee land (I know it may sound annoying using the term YankeeLand, but it is what it is) thats a while back, like I said, Ask George. You are using that target term too losely too. The Yankees don't have a target on their back just because of the regular season and what they've done in the past. You think the Chicago Bulls still have a target because of what MJ did back in the days. You think the Lakers still have a target on their back for what Kobe and Shaq did?? You think the A's still have a target on their back for all those WS they went to in the 80s. To me, having a target on your back is only for teams that rival each other, BoSox target is the Yankees, Mets target is the Braves, atleast when dealing with the NL East title. Other teams don't look at the Yankees as the competition they once were to put a target on them. Today, teams, year in and year out have their eyes on the prize of winning their division title, winning in the postseason, and winning a ring. There is no longer a team in the American League, and even the National League that you MUST pass to complete your goal. That being said, the Yankees cannot be a target because with no success in the postseason, you can't have a target for something you've done so long ago. It doesn't work.

the Yankees DIDN'T win the division title last season.


Last time I CHECKED... They did... you need to re- check..

Obviosly meaning last completed season, or are you just behind on everything you do???

No better at the plate becuase he hits for more power, and he hits for average, and look at his stats at what he has done late in games this year and how many game winning or go ahead RBI's the guy had.. i think he was near the top of the league this year... why don't you check that...

Uhhmmm, last I checked, David Ortiz had a better batting average than A-Rod last season (2007 season since you're still behind!!) with a shift that kills players batting averages (ask Giambi) And last I checked, Ramirez for his career has a better batting average than A-Rod. You might want to do a little research before calling someone out on something like that. Numbers don't lie. And my friend when comparing Ortiz and A-Rod, DO NOT bring up game-winning and go ahead RBIs. I don't care even about this season. DO NOT DO THAT. You make yourself look foolish. You wanna talk the same RBIs that A-Rod was seemingly having a problem coming across in the 5 games A-Rod played this offseason, while players like Ortiz and Manny got those RBIs with EASE in their playoff games???? Ortiz and A-Rod...you wannt talk about game winning RBIs?? Try doing that with someone that KNOWS baseball. You would look like a little kid that only thinks baseball is about homeruns. Even though it already does. Need I remind you that David Ortiz was injured with a knee problems and still put up those amazing numbers. This the same injury that was about to sideline the guy for the ALCS. It wasnt anything small and he STILL came out to play. Please do not make me defend a Red Sox like this again, it pains me more than you think.

I mean look at how boston is struggling, manny and ortiz bouncing into rally killing DP's, ortiz running when he shouldn't getting hit by a ball in play, I mean come on man!!! I think a lot of us, including myself overreacted to this loss to cleveland, and being the yankees we will always have a target on our backs as long as we are winning and that always doesn't have to mean winning a ring, you can't win a WS every damn year. we got spoiled...

Its not a matter of being spoiled. BUT WHAT HAVE WE WON!?!?!?! We haven't won ANYTHING since 2000. Winning in YankeeLand means A RING. We haven't won anything. Some people yes are over-reacting, but the over-reacting is with Joe Torre not with the team. No smart Yankee fans want the Yankees to blow up the team. The only over-reacting is blaming everything on Torre and wanting him gone, and thats not me. Again its not being spoiled its pointing out that A-Rod isn't worth what he's asking for when he can't put up near the numbers other guys are that are gettting paid 1/4th of what he does because at the end of the day in YankeeLand, what you do in the regular season means nothing. We want big numbers in the postseason. In some cases its step you game up, and in some cases like A-Rod's its continue what your doing.

And FYI, pettite, rivera, posada, jeter those are 4 remnants from the dynasty years, I would hardly call that not having anyone left, but hey, do as you feel... I really don't understand what you are rambling about. you seem to have this thing against A-rod.... he is the best player in the game, great players struggle in the playoffs, Vlad, bonds, A-rod, it happens.. I really don't see your point with trying to compare manny and ortiz to him.. it is not even close..

4 players, really 3 since Pettite just came back in my books is hardly having players from our dynasty. Thats a reason why Pettite came back smart one!!!! Its a fact that one of the motives behind bringing Pettite back was to bring a little of of the core that was around for dynasty back. We barely have any players like I said, and there are barely any players around point blank that are around now that was a victim of our wrath in the 90s.

My whole thing in this conversation is why I really hope you don't respond to this because you are missing the point that everyone else is getting except you. My whole point was that I WANT A-ROD BACK NEXT SEASON. But the thing I was trying to point out is its sad how blind people like yourself crown this man the best ever when he's done nothing really of importance except homeruns. Like I said, it seems you are more fascinated with homeruns. Yes, its absolutely possible A-Rod can break the homerun record, but as Yankee fans we really don't care. We aren't fascinated with stats in the regular season here mayn. Why should we crown this man the best when he doesn't perform when other 'bests' preform the best. MJ is the best, he performed in the postseason. Kobe can be the best, he preforms in the postseason. To me and many others, you should be able to do almost everything to be the best. Your agent sits on radio and talks how he really deserves over 30 million dollars a season, for what reason?? Yes its great what he did, but has he won a ring since he's been here??? Has he gotten a big hit that forced a game or won a series in the postseason?? Like I said, stars are made in the playoffs. If you are a star, and you don't do anything in the playoffs, how are you the best???

[/quote]

Dude you are hillarious.... I am not even going to waste much time responding to your circular argument. I will leave you with this..

1) you can't win ring every year, but you can hope to be in position to do so every year, and guess what, despite what george and you think, the yankees have done that....

2) A-rod will go down as one of the greatest players ever, so stop talking about manny who is a lazy but gifted hitter, and ortiz who is a overweight ,one dimensional player, who is a great hitter.And stop comparing them to A-rod ,it is silly. A-rod is about to win his 2nd MVP in 3 years..

3) That part of your post I bolded is about the craziest thing I have ever heard.. Ask yourself this. Why is the HR title the most glamorous accomplishment to have in baseball, almost all of sports? You say all A-rod do is hit Homeruns? LOL, how silly is that, talk about sounding like a kid, that was a ridiculous statement.. Listen here. Paul Oneal is a great postseason player and he has 5 rings, but he will not be in the hall of fame... But if paul oneal never won a ring and hit 600 homers, guess what? HOF!!!!! Again You just buried yourself with assinine argument.. you proved my point..... moving on!!

4) I don't miss anything, you made this into an A-rod, manny argument and honestly, that isn't worth discussing...

5) your example of the A's is silly, no one on those 80's teams is still playing, your example of the lakers and kobe and shaq is not valid, because the key ingredient shaq is gone and the lakers are not even a playoff team, and of Jordan and pippen were still on the bulls, they would still have a target on their backs.. The difference is , that the yankees are still and always contenders every year, ther key players, jeter, rivera and posada are still there and playing at the top of their games, and torre until last year was still manager..... I don't see how any of your examples made any sense whatsoever.. and You know it your damn self...

With that being said, I see you have wondered off into outer space with your logic...

I want to win as much as the next yankee fan, but hell I will settle with winning the division every year with a ring or two sprinkled in over a 5 year period , hell I will take 4 titles over the next decade like we did before, and when that happens, I won't foolishly look back like you and say, what have you done for me lately.. No one wins every year.. not on this planet. And it would be great to see A-rod win as a yankee and I think that will happen if he stays, but to diminish him as a ball player because he hasn't don so as a yankee, is cocky, arrogant and really foolish....

[gooGD]

-= original quote snipped =-



Because you're just not as good as you want to believe.

-= original quote snipped =-



No, but you guys think that is ok to complain when guys like granderson have career days against the yankees. its part of baseball...

All scrubs have their day. Some you guys get this entitlement that
"this scrub is not allowed to beat us, he cant touch us, gtf off the field"

Please, there are so many factors that could have reasoned why carmona didnt do as well.... the weather, control issues ,etc. You cant watch this guy for 2 games and come around and complain saying

This guy was lights out against us, having the best pitching performance of his life, but gets blown out of the water against the bosox? We are the better hitting team.. why did this guy own us?

reading comprehension.