2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[WuTang_CMB]

Who are the realistic targets are 13?

Keyonte George, Kobe Bufkin, Nick Smith Jr, Cason Wallace, Leonard Miller, Jordan Hawkins, Dariq Whitehead, GG Jackson & Brice Sensabaugh.

That's a pretty good list. I haven't done any deep dives yet but

Who is the best scorer in this group?
Best shooter?
Highest potential?

Hawkins best shooter with great footwork.

[Los_29]

I’ve seen a couple mock drafts with Cason Wallace going late in the lottery. That is pretty shocking to see. I think he’s going to be a good player.

[Yallbecrazy]

For those new to the thread one poster made the point that NBA players never have a BPM under 3 in college, and very few good ones have one under 5 in their draft year.

Nick Smith and JHS - 0.7

GG Jackson - -0.1.

Luckily the Raptors have avoided these guys in the past.

These guys are firmly in my do not draft list, not 1st round, not even 2nd round calibre players.

Most drafts have 10-15+ teenagers with BPMs well above 8, this one only has a handful, along with not many upper classmen either, hence why many think it is quite weak.
I don't know what to make of the Thompson twins, but they are definitely outside my top 15 as high RSCI guys who can't shoot.
Many of these recruits just finished growing and often the best ones against high school competition aren't the best against college. Only 2-3 guys of the top 10 RSCI guys end up being successful in the NBA and if you looked at ones that can't shoot that number will be much lower. Hence the Thompson twins are a mystery box, but one I would avoid in the first round, let alone the top 10, being 20 year olds playing high school kids.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I’ve seen a couple mock drafts with Cason Wallace going late in the lottery. That is pretty shocking to see. I think he’s going to be a good player.

Once the lottery happens I think we'll get better mocks. Some of the sliding might be due to fit for some of these guys.

Seeing a lot of one of Bufkin/George/Nick Smith to the Raps on the mocks right now. Was super high on Keyonte to start the season but he'd need to be a ton more efficient or he's just another Trent.

Bufkin is my personal favourite outside of Cason of these outside top 10 guards. If we trade for th POR pick I like Ausar Thompson at 5 over Whitmore

[UnbelievablyRAW]

For those new to the thread one poster made the point that NBA players never have a BPM under 3 in college, and very few good ones have one under 5 in their draft year.

Nick Smith and JHS - 0.7

GG Jackson - -0.1.

Luckily the Raptors have avoided these guys in the past.

These guys are firmly in my do not draft list, not 1st round, not even 2nd round calibre players.

Most drafts have 10-15+ teenagers with BPMs well above 8, this one only has a handful, along with not many upper classmen either, hence why many think it is quite weak.
I don't know what to make of the Thompson twins, but they are definitely outside my top 15 as high RSCI guys who can't shoot.
Many of these recruits just finished growing and often the best ones against high school competition aren't the best against college. Only 2-3 guys of the top 10 RSCI guys end up being successful in the NBA and if you looked at ones that can't shoot that number will be much lower. Hence the Thompson twins are a mystery box, but one I would avoid in the first round, let alone the top 10, being 20 year olds playing high school kids.

The athleticism is real regardless of competition. Amen has ball skills, passing and insane quickness and leaping ability. He's going to look like a taller Ja Morant in the league who also had shooting concerns (not as pronounced but still there). Honestly would love if we could finesse a way into getting him and going all in teaching him to shoot. Certain physical attributes can't be worked on with training, some guys just have a natural physical edge and thats what makes them elite

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

The reason the Thompson twins are legit prospects is because you don't see them doing dumb, low basketball IQ stuff which manifests itself no matter what level you're playing at. They don't lower their shoulders and drive recklessly to the rim, they don't look lost throughout the off-ball movement on both sides, the athleticism is functional, the handles are tight and that won't change - there is pace, control and intent behind everything that they do. When you add to that the willingness to play defense and pass selflessly combined with their athleticism and feel for the game, I think implying they're not even 2nd round players is going to look very bad. I view a kid like Ausar having the floor of a top role player... the floor. Certainly not something worthy of being a 2nd round pick or UDFA.

Both twins have not demonstrated bad body language at all and seem to enjoy being in the gym and ballin. When they're hit with adversity finding themselves in the top league in the world with expectations on them will they crumble? Who knows. But the same can be asked about most prospects.

[Yallbecrazy]

For those new to the thread one poster made the point that NBA players never have a BPM under 3 in college, and very few good ones have one under 5 in their draft year.

Nick Smith and JHS - 0.7

GG Jackson - -0.1.

Luckily the Raptors have avoided these guys in the past.

These guys are firmly in my do not draft list, not 1st round, not even 2nd round calibre players.

Most drafts have 10-15+ teenagers with BPMs well above 8, this one only has a handful, along with not many upper classmen either, hence why many think it is quite weak.
I don't know what to make of the Thompson twins, but they are definitely outside my top 15 as high RSCI guys who can't shoot.
Many of these recruits just finished growing and often the best ones against high school competition aren't the best against college. Only 2-3 guys of the top 10 RSCI guys end up being successful in the NBA and if you looked at ones that can't shoot that number will be much lower. Hence the Thompson twins are a mystery box, but one I would avoid in the first round, let alone the top 10, being 20 year olds playing high school kids.

The athleticism is real regardless of competition. Amen has ball skills, passing and insane quickness and leaping ability. He's going to look like a taller Ja Morant in the league who also had shooting concerns (not as pronounced but still there). Honestly would love if we could finesse a way into getting him and going all in teaching him to shoot. Certain physical attributes can't be worked on with training, some guys just have a natural physical edge and thats what makes them elite

Does he have great passing? We have no idea based on who he's played against. There's a lot of great athletes who aren't good NBA players. We have no idea if he's going to be a NBA level defender either.
Taking a guy who has a distribution curve of 75% non NBA player, 5% bench, 10% rotation, 5% starter, 5% star is not worthy of a top 15 pick even in a weak draft.

[Spates]

I don't follow draft info much. Just randomly checked USA Today mock draft, they have us taking 6'4 G Cason Wallace at 13. How do the draftniks here feel about him?

Super impactful defender. Offensive game doesn't seem to excel in a particular area. Not really a rim pressuring guard but makes good reads.

[Yallbecrazy]

The reason the Thompson twins are legit prospects is because you don't see them doing dumb, low basketball IQ stuff which manifests itself no matter what level you're playing at. They don't lower their shoulders and drive recklessly to the rim, they don't look lost throughout the off-ball movement on both sides, the athleticism is functional, the handles are tight and that won't change - there is pace, control and intent behind everything that they do. When you add to that the willingness to play defense and pass selflessly combined with their athleticism and feel for the game, I think implying they're not even 2nd round players is going to look very bad. I view a kid like Ausar having the floor of a top role player... the floor. Certainly not something worthy of being a 2nd round pick or UDFA.

Both twins have not demonstrated bad body language at all and seem to enjoy being in the gym and ballin. When they're hit with adversity finding themselves in the top league in the world with expectations on them will they crumble? Who knows. But the same can be asked about most prospects.

I didn't suggest they weren't 2nd round picks, just that they aren't top 10, and probably not top 20.

Nick Smith, GG Jackson, and JHS I feel are overwhelmingly likely to bust.
Like 80%+ to not get their 3rd and 4th year option picked up if they go in the 1st round.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

The reason the Thompson twins are legit prospects is because you don't see them doing dumb, low basketball IQ stuff which manifests itself no matter what level you're playing at. They don't lower their shoulders and drive recklessly to the rim, they don't look lost throughout the off-ball movement on both sides, the athleticism is functional, the handles are tight and that won't change - there is pace, control and intent behind everything that they do. When you add to that the willingness to play defense and pass selflessly combined with their athleticism and feel for the game, I think implying they're not even 2nd round players is going to look very bad. I view a kid like Ausar having the floor of a top role player... the floor. Certainly not something worthy of being a 2nd round pick or UDFA.

Both twins have not demonstrated bad body language at all and seem to enjoy being in the gym and ballin. When they're hit with adversity finding themselves in the top league in the world with expectations on them will they crumble? Who knows. But the same can be asked about most prospects.

I didn't suggest they weren't 2nd round picks, just that they aren't top 10, and probably not top 20.

Nick Smith, GG Jackson, and JHS I feel are overwhelmingly likely to bust.

My bad I thought I saw something about not being 2nd round worthy, kinda multitasking watching Knicks game.

There are just some things that level of play doesn't really affect and everything they've flaunted and showed off on the court in terms of skill or movement checks out for me. Obviously shooting is the issue which is in part why I'm also agreeing with some that Ausar should have the edge over Amen. I agree it's not easy evaluating them though whereas I'm quite confident in my evaluation of guys like NSJ and JHS.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I don't follow draft info much. Just randomly checked USA Today mock draft, they have us taking 6'4 G Cason Wallace at 13. How do the draftniks here feel about him?

Super impactful defender. Offensive game doesn't seem to excel in a particular area. Not really a rim pressuring guard but makes good reads.

Cason can work for us as long as we put a particular type of guard next to him, it will be absolutely essential to put a guard who excels offensively next to him.

[Dalek]

I don't follow draft info much. Just randomly checked USA Today mock draft, they have us taking 6'4 G Cason Wallace at 13. How do the draftniks here feel about him?

Super impactful defender. Offensive game doesn't seem to excel in a particular area. Not really a rim pressuring guard but makes good reads.

To me he can get one the floor now like Black because of the defense. He'd be great because you don't have to wait on him, and he is pretty mistake free running the offense. He is going to be more of a power guard in the NBA given his size and assuming he will add weight to that frame. I see a bit of a Jalen Brunson future for him once his handle tightens up.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I don't follow draft info much. Just randomly checked USA Today mock draft, they have us taking 6'4 G Cason Wallace at 13. How do the draftniks here feel about him?

Super impactful defender. Offensive game doesn't seem to excel in a particular area. Not really a rim pressuring guard but makes good reads.

Cason can work for us as long as we put a particular type of guard next to him, it will be absolutely essential to put a guard who excels offensively next to him.

Maybe we can S&T Fred to Brooklyn for Dinwiddie and one of their FRPs in the 20s to try and get Colby Jones or Bufkin if he falls. Krie Murray is good around that range too, also Sasser

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I'm having nightmares lately about Jones after the free throw shooting during the play in game.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Super impactful defender. Offensive game doesn't seem to excel in a particular area. Not really a rim pressuring guard but makes good reads.

Cason can work for us as long as we put a particular type of guard next to him, it will be absolutely essential to put a guard who excels offensively next to him.

Maybe we can S&T Fred to Brooklyn for Dinwiddie and one of their FRPs in the 20s to try and get Colby Jones or Bufkin if he falls. Krie Murray is good around that range too, also Sasser

I was gonna say Fred for a pick in the 20’s sounds like bad value, but for Sasser I’d do it. He’s not a little person and can get buckets all over the floor like a poor man’s Lillard

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Cason can work for us as long as we put a particular type of guard next to him, it will be absolutely essential to put a guard who excels offensively next to him.

Maybe we can S&T Fred to Brooklyn for Dinwiddie and one of their FRPs in the 20s to try and get Colby Jones or Bufkin if he falls. Krie Murray is good around that range too, also Sasser

I was gonna say Fred for a pick in the 20’s sounds like bad value, but for Sasser I’d do it. He’s not a little person and can get buckets all over the floor like a poor man’s Lillard

Fred for Dinwiddie or Cam Johnson and Sasser sounds great to me

[BoyzNTheHood]

Maybe we can S&T Fred to Brooklyn for Dinwiddie and one of their FRPs in the 20s to try and get Colby Jones or Bufkin if he falls. Krie Murray is good around that range too, also Sasser

I was gonna say Fred for a pick in the 20’s sounds like bad value, but for Sasser I’d do it. He’s not a little person and can get buckets all over the floor like a poor man’s Lillard

Fred for Dinwiddie or Cam Johnson and Sasser sounds great to me

I’d probably be more inclined to flip Dinwiddie or Johnson to a third team. In that scenario I’d prefer Johnson since his skill set fits in well anywhere.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I was gonna say Fred for a pick in the 20’s sounds like bad value, but for Sasser I’d do it. He’s not a little person and can get buckets all over the floor like a poor man’s Lillard

Fred for Dinwiddie or Cam Johnson and Sasser sounds great to me

I’d probably be more inclined to flip Dinwiddie or Johnson to a third team. In that scenario I’d prefer Johnson since his skill set fits in well anywhere.

We desparately need shooting, id be more than happy to hang onto Cam in this sort of deal, even if we need to pay him. I'm assuming that Pascal is moved as well in this scenario so it wouldn't be that taxing

[raincityraptors]

Having done some draft research, I'm really drawn most to one player.

Part of this is because my favorite players are Scottie, OG and Jak.

I can see him taking advantage of Scottie's creation, benefitting from OGs ability to guard stronger wings and knowing how to make the most out of Jak's screens.

Jordan Hawkins.

If he's available at our pick, I think a movement shooter like him who can play some D is a great compliment to Scottie long term.

If you haven't been looking at the tape and analysis yet, make sure to include this kid when you do.

For better or worse Koloko was my pick last season and it's hard seeing me move off of Hawkins this year.

Watch on YouTube

[BoyzNTheHood]

Fred for Dinwiddie or Cam Johnson and Sasser sounds great to me

I’d probably be more inclined to flip Dinwiddie or Johnson to a third team. In that scenario I’d prefer Johnson since his skill set fits in well anywhere.

We desparately need shooting, id be more than happy to hang onto Cam in this sort of deal, even if we need to pay him. I'm assuming that Pascal is moved as well in this scenario so it wouldn't be that taxing

I just don’t know if I’d hold onto a 27 year old wing player if we’re entering a rebuild, especially one with as much value to winners as Cam Johnson