2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[BoyzNTheHood]

Brook Lopez type numbers in college

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[UnbelievablyRAW]

I’d probably be more inclined to flip Dinwiddie or Johnson to a third team. In that scenario I’d prefer Johnson since his skill set fits in well anywhere.

We desparately need shooting, id be more than happy to hang onto Cam in this sort of deal, even if we need to pay him. I'm assuming that Pascal is moved as well in this scenario so it wouldn't be that taxing

I just don’t know if I’d hold onto a 27 year old wing player if we’re entering a rebuild, especially one with as much value to winners as Cam Johnson

Around the same age as OG. He'd get more touches with us so maybe we can up his trade value before dealing him.

[BoyzNTheHood]

We desparately need shooting, id be more than happy to hang onto Cam in this sort of deal, even if we need to pay him. I'm assuming that Pascal is moved as well in this scenario so it wouldn't be that taxing

I just don’t know if I’d hold onto a 27 year old wing player if we’re entering a rebuild, especially one with as much value to winners as Cam Johnson

Around the same age as OG. He'd get more touches with us so maybe we can up his trade value before dealing him.

OG is still 25 (26 this summer). I’d say the only way you could raise Cam’s value is if you make him more of a main option. But right now his appeal is very similar to OG in that they’re efficient 3+D guys. So I’m not sure his value will get much better than it is in Brooklyn.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I just don’t know if I’d hold onto a 27 year old wing player if we’re entering a rebuild, especially one with as much value to winners as Cam Johnson

Around the same age as OG. He'd get more touches with us so maybe we can up his trade value before dealing him.

OG is still 25 (26 this summer). I’d say the only way you could raise Cam’s value is if you make him more of a main option. But right now his appeal is very similar to OG in that they’re efficient 3+D guys. So I’m not sure his value will get much better than it is in Brooklyn.

He'd probably get more FGAs on our team as one of the few guys that can shoot if he were to come here. Maybe a higher PPG total he appears more attractive. I see your point though

[Dalek]

The ESPN Big Board got updated and I feel like it accurately places several guard prospects that will be in the Raps range:

11 Nick Smith Jr
12 Cason Wallace
13 Jordan Hawkins
14 Keyonte George
15 Jalen Hood-Schifino

Personally I am more torn between Smith Jr. and Keyonte. Wallace is the best defender but I am not confident in his offensive game and being a starting PG.

Smith Jr. cooked Wallace in the Jordan Brand game and was MVP and throughout high school seemed to outshine Wallace:

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I don't think they matched up in college, but Smith Jr. still got his buckets against Kentucky. I just see Smith Jr. as having more size and wingspan and quickness/shiftiness that I see him having a better career. It may take a bit more time because he is so skinny, but the upside is real to me - he was such a different player prior to these injuries late last year.

Keyonte is thicker and stronger than Smith Jr. and has a lot to his game having the controlled chaos. Apparently he was playing 20 lbs too heavy and of course was on a bad ankle for his last weeks. He reminds me of Jamal Murray being a volume shooter who can get to anywhere on the floor, but the bonus is Keyonte is a good defender. Here he looks much slimmer:

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JHS scares me the most. Toronto loves to draft boring safe PGs, and he could be a guy they like but I think he is a bust given his ugly shot and challenges getting to the rim.

The Big Board overall had a few shockers: GG at 28!; Clowney up to 19; Bufkin at 21; Black at 8 (the Giddey effect is real).

https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable/_/position/ovr/page/1

[Yallbecrazy]

Having done some draft research, I'm really drawn most to one player.

Part of this is because my favorite players are Scottie, OG and Jak.

I can see him taking advantage of Scottie's creation, benefitting from OGs ability to guard stronger wings and knowing how to make the most out of Jak's screens.

Jordan Hawkins.

If he's available at our pick, I think a movement shooter like him who can play some D is a great compliment to Scottie long term.

If you haven't been looking at the tape and analysis yet, make sure to include this kid when you do.

For better or worse Koloko was my pick last season and it's hard seeing me move off of Hawkins this year.

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Except he's not good on defense.

See this article on him:
https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/is-jordan-hawkins-the-next-elite

Not saying he won't be a good pro, but his range of outcomes aren't ideal. I wouldn't take him in the top 20.

[Raptorfan2012]

Having done some draft research, I'm really drawn most to one player.

Part of this is because my favorite players are Scottie, OG and Jak.

I can see him taking advantage of Scottie's creation, benefitting from OGs ability to guard stronger wings and knowing how to make the most out of Jak's screens.

Jordan Hawkins.

If he's available at our pick, I think a movement shooter like him who can play some D is a great compliment to Scottie long term.

If you haven't been looking at the tape and analysis yet, make sure to include this kid when you do.

For better or worse Koloko was my pick last season and it's hard seeing me move off of Hawkins this year.

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I would not mind if Hawkins is our pick. A shooter who can also handle the ball, and a champion. We need guys who can put the ball in the basket. Love his jumper.

[ItsDanger]

Brook Lopez type numbers in college

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5th yr college guy, the 3 pt % is based on 52 attempts, you'd need to take a closer look if he's legit.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Brook Lopez type numbers in college

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5th yr college guy, the 3 pt % is based on 52 attempts, you'd need to take a closer look if he's legit.

This would only be as an UDFA

[PhilBlackson]

Idk every time I watch footage of Cissiko I think I still like him with our pick.

I think he has one of the higher upsides where we're picking in the draft and yes that's even with Keyonte & Cason. But a 6'7-8' point forward type that's really strong with good handles, bball IQ, great passing with an upwards trajectory on his jumpshot. I know what we need is more along the lines of Keyonte as a secondary scorer who would probably be right there with Sidy for me as it stands now but CS if given the playing time & development seems like he has all the tools to be a serious steal imo.

[HumbleRen]

After watching all of these playoff games, i don’t want a safe guard anymore.

Give me Keyonte or Bufkin. Idc if they have high risk attached to them. I want exciting basketball in my city again and I’ll risk the 13th pick to make it happen.

[S ID]

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[Psubs]

The only concerns you have with Cissoko are shooting but then you see he went on a tear for one month should ~5 3PA on ~50% shooting. He has no weaknesses other than consistency but he's only 18.

His rebounding rate was 4.9, which is beyond awful for someone that big. That's definitely a weakness.

Rebounding is extremely overrated as a guard. It does not concern me at all when it comes to a “weakness”.

Leonard Miller and another player get all of the rebounds.

[Thaddy]

Idk every time I watch footage of Cissiko I think I still like him with our pick.

I think he has one of the higher upsides where we're picking in the draft and yes that's even with Keyonte & Cason. But a 6'7-8' point forward type that's really strong with good handles, bball IQ, great passing with an upwards trajectory on his jumpshot. I know what we need is more along the lines of Keyonte as a secondary scorer who would probably be right there with Sidy for me as it stands now but CS if given the playing time & development seems like he has all the tools to be a serious steal imo.

The back up SF and PG spots are wide open. A guy like Hawkins would be an immediate fit for us since we're so bad at shooting. If he hits 5+ attempts on 35+ from 3pt range he would be a staple in our rotation. The FO is desperate to win now so I could see them going for Dick, Hawkins, or another skilled shooter they can plug and play right away.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

[ill-Will03]

After watching this years playoffs you can see just how important is it for a guard to be able to break down his man and get to the rim. I think I’d be leaning more towards Nick smith jr. His burst and first step look elite, even if his shot is pretty inconsistent I think we desperately need someone who can put pressure on the rim either for kick outs or to finish himself.

[Thaddy]

After watching this years playoffs you can see just how important is it for a guard to be able to break down his man and get to the rim. I think I’d be leaning more towards Nick smith jr. His burst and first step look elite, even if his shot is pretty inconsistent I think we desperately need someone who can put pressure on the rim either for kick outs or to finish himself.

Smith Jr looks like the most talented player in our range. I would be surprised if he's outside of the top 10, could be another OG like steal if he drops due to injury.

[The Duke]

We should be looking for a perimeter shot creator. We have not had that since Kawhi (Lowry did some of it too). In an ideal world, this player develops into the player who takes the iso shots within 2 minutes.

[DG88]

After watching this years playoffs you can see just how important is it for a guard to be able to break down his man and get to the rim. I think I’d be leaning more towards Nick smith jr. His burst and first step look elite, even if his shot is pretty inconsistent I think we desperately need someone who can put pressure on the rim either for kick outs or to finish himself.

The thing is though he never put much pressure on the rim, he mainly uses his floater package in the paint. Part of it is probably the knee injury but I don't know.

[ATLTimekeeper]

It's a bad way to use the draft. You have to choose from available pools of talent and just make the best decision.

Anyway, I keep going back to the Raptors not taking anyone with less than 2.5 DBPM over the years (I think Banton is the only one). Just going through the last 10 drafts here are the good players that had a DBPM in their draft year that was less than 2.5.

2012: Harrison Barnes, Khris Middleton, Austin Rivers
2013: Tim Hardaway Jr, CJ McCollum
2014: Jordan Clarkson, Zach LaVine, Julius Randle, Jerami Grant*, Doug McDermott
2015: Bobby Portis
2016: Ingram, Buddy Hield*, Jamal Murray, Dejounte Murray, Malik Beasley
2017: Fultz, Markannen, Kuzma
2018: Ayton, Young, Huerter*, Brunson, Devonte Graham*
2019: RJ Barret, Ja Morant, Darius Garland, Kevin Porter Jr,
2020: Anthony Edwards, Saddiq Bey, Jaden McDaniels, Maxey, Quickley*
2021: Trey Murphy
2022: Jalen Williams, Mathurin, AJ Griffin

*these players had a greater > 2.5 in previous seasons.

So not a perfect number by any means and if the Raptors stuck hard to this number they'd miss out on roughly 3-4 draft hits a year and about 1 all-star every year, it doesn't look like they'd miss on any true 1A players. The best to my mind are Trae, Ja and LaVine. As is I would consider only 20% as first options on their own team. And, looking through the list maybe 5 on these players have become known good defensive players in the NBA.