Trade Discussion 22/23

[Archx]

My point is, realistically, they'll probably build this like the 2011 team. Dirk was the longest tenured one, they got Terry from Atlanta. Marion, Tyson then eventually Kidd all came years after. It wasnt all built in a single offseason. And the same I think would be true with this Luka thing. They'll be opportunistic here and there, but i do not see a scenario where Cuban will get a star immediately. Even moreso if Mavs lose Kyrie to the Lakers. Doncic + Van Vleet is a first round exit IMO.

Exactly.

For example, not resigning Brunson was a monumental mistake, because this team would basically have an all star guy with role player contract. Then they would only have to focus by spending on athletic wing defenders and a center.

Instead... well, we're all aware how messed up the situation is right now. 3 guys who don't move the needle in THJ, Bertans and Bullock are at 44M. So, Kyrie+Luka and those 3 = aprox 134M already. 5 players locking up the entire first cap treshold

WIth Brunson+Luka+THJ/Bertans/Bullock, it would have only been around 95M. So you could even keep them as good role players and just focus on finding other solid players around them. Much simpler and i wouldn't bitch about their contracts all the time

Like you said, we can't trust Cuban to do anything right.

[41Dirk41]

if they failed to build a contender with luka (and Brunson) in rookie contract how do you think they can do it now with this situation? Bob cit.

Dallas has no option unless re-sign Kyrie and trade all the picks for 2 starters otherwise next year will be the last of Luka in Mavs jersey.

[HMFFL]

Heat might look for Bam Adebayo trades in the offseason after getting bounced. His continous subpar performance doesnt indicate he is a max player at all. One take away from this season is Bam cant play center anymore. Too small. Especially for Capela getting 21 rebounds over him. #10 + THJ for Bam? Who says no?

Will a team with Bam + Gobert work? Surely you lose 3 point shooting but gain tremendous ground on defense. Those two seem to be on their way out of their respective teams. Especially Gobert.

C - Gobert
PF - Adebayo
SF - Green
SG - Doncic
PG - Irving

I doubt they move Bam. However, his nonexistent three point shooting might be an issue that his team has.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[daoneandonly]

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-draft-night-trade-pick-san-antonio-spurs-jeremy-sochan-jaden-hardy

[SOUNDCHASER]

We focused on 3 pointers and look what we accomplished this season.

It is feast or famine too often with an overly reliant focus on hitting 3's

You need an inside scoring attack that is able to overcome the rest of the leagues defensive schemes and that takes brute force ability to win match ups by having bigger guys inside.

To win in todays NBA takes great 3 point shooting sure but at the minimum you need to secure deploying a defensive approach that empowers the team to stop inside scoring by having defensive forces to rely on at 2 of your 3 forwards/ centers and if these guys are able to score inside because your guy is a bigger than most at their position then you have 2 way success with them and that is an unbeatable combination of talent.

Currently we have nobody other than McGee who has a size near that level to use at center.

Free agency:
Poeltl would give us an advantage we could use. Probably can't outbid Toronto on his services due to our remaining cap so not any chance we can go after more expensive guys like Vuc and its slim pickings at this position.

Naz at PF would be great and if Naz is available for BAE he might like living in Texas with our lack of state income tax so we could possibly take him away from MINN his contract is something we should prioritize and make happen on the first day of free agency.

DRAFT

Finding talent in the draft is key and if you can or can't get NAZ you still need so much help inside that you can pretty much go after nothing but bigs in the draft. After Taylor Hendricks comes off the board the options at SF/ PF dwindle and I would sign Gregory Jackson and seek to trade down a pick or so if it can secure a late first or early 2nd to grab the best traditional center in the draft which is Zach Edey even though most are saying he may be too slow he won the Naismith as he scored over 20 ppg while rebounding 12 rpg. His blocks are also strong so you can get 2 defensive forces who score enough on the other side of the court.

Note if the drop down can get you 2 extra picks instead of one then that could make it possible to take 3 guys in the draft but one good PG is looking like he goes undrafted out of Europe. Juan Nunez who is the best PG over there. Draft and stash in Frisco on a 2 way and trade off Wright for another pick or prospect and that could be a future pick AFAIC. Give Doncic another Euro to talk to on the team and that may keep him happier.

TRADES: the brain trust needs to look into trading off the guys we no longer need or want. Probably wont find any takes till the TDL when stupidity and desperations seems more likely.

If we consider anyone untradeable it is Luka Irving and then Green and Hardy. This depth of talent in the backcourt enables us to focus on adding bigs. Add in Holiday for a vet min and keep him as a SF /SG.

The key players we need to trade to get something else include: Hardaway Bullock Kleber Bertans. I expect Bertans is a tradeable expiring contract. That may be able to help us get a player worth adding but I doubt it.

Any teams vet talent that we would trade for with our first rounder is going to be more expensive than what we would pay if we kept that pick so I tend to think it is dumb to work on trading it. It might help us get rid of one or more of our overpaid guys but then you have to replace that guy and then you are limited to using vet mins. Look at what LA is having to do to rebuild this is who we are looking like now.

Will any team even want to give us a decent center or SF/PF? Ill fitting trash is all I see being considered in trade discussions.

Drafting a big you get more upside as well as lower cost. After we waste our MLE or BAE in desperation all you can add is vet mins for additional options. Look at who the Lakers tried to add in the past and that is what you see as a typical big to add in free agency when all you have is a vet min.

Our need is real but our owner has shown he blows at making the right moves. His options are greatly limited in choice the ones I outlined above are all we have if you want to add size and get talent that does not require trading off our guys on our not for trade list. If you want to win you need size inside to defend and score most of the bigs I see mentioned here can only do one or the other.

GG and Zach are 2 way talents so add them or else listen to me say how stupid we where for not doing this move and Giannis is a prime example of not making the right move because win now mentality is clouding your mind.

Even if it takes a year for them to develop take your lumps now and play them we have no other way to develop a strong contender unless we develop inside bigs with 2 way talent and we have zero assets we can afford to trade to get them so getting them through the draft it is our only option and it is virtually impossible to steal talent from teams that have what we need to add into the team.

Bam is undersized and expensive so you are just taking trash back if you go after him. GG could be a bigger version of Bam at
SF when he continues to grow he has far more upside. He can defend both the perimeter and inside and he will be a force. Zach deters all efforts to get to the rim when he is out there so you have to add that and declare the rim off limits to other teams. That combo would vastly improve our D and give us a lot better scoring punch than Kleber Powell and Wood. Zach may come in and score 20 PPG to cause other teams nightmares on how they can defend his game. With GG on the court defending the other teams best scorer we have a stopper so that Zach is able to focus on offense and take advantage of his size to grab more rebounds while he blocks shots as well on D. Luka tends to force a slower pace and so you need a guy like Zach anyway.

[Ni Da Ye]

Can we offer kyrie + 1st to get Brunson back with us?

[Teffer10]

if they failed to build a contender with luka (and Brunson) in rookie contract how do you think they can do it now with this situation? Bob cit.

Dallas has no option unless re-sign Kyrie and trade all the picks for 2 starters otherwise next year will be the last of Luka in Mavs jersey.

They risked it all when trading for Kyrie and I personally think this will backfire on them and Luka will be asking for a trade soon.
The small sample size of the two together isn't encouraging and this has Harden/Westbrook and Harden/Kyrie written all over.
I've never been crazy about pairing two ball-dominant superstars because it seems to result in disaster more than success.
We shall see...

[Dmavs12]

Can we offer kyrie + 1st to get Brunson back with us?

Speaking of the Nicks, if we keep the pick, I’d be interested in Mitchell Robinson. He looked good against Cleveland today. Wonder if a package could be put together is some form with them.

Not on good terms though, LOL.

[Archx]

Can we offer kyrie + 1st to get Brunson back with us?

Speaking of the Nicks, if we keep the pick, I’d be interested in Mitchell Robinson. He looked good against Cleveland today. Wonder if a package could be put together is some form with them.

Not on good terms though, LOL.

The day when this FO stops doing deals with the Knicks, will be the day that Mavs fans will light the beam over Mavs arena in celebration that Cuban finally figured out it's not smart going after Knicks rejects anymore. I lost count how many players we got in the past 5 years when Knicks were simply cleaning the house. Now they're in the playoffs with a 1st round win already and Mavs are tanking with Luka and Kyrie.

Also, anyone see this?

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-jason-kidd-luka-doncic-nico-harrison-mark-cuban-kyrie-irving-tanking

Long story short:

Sports Illustrated reports that Mavericks planned to tank in March but Luka and Kyrie refused to sit.

On the outside it looks like Mavs only got Kyrie to tank

[Dmavs12]

Long story short:

Sports Illustrated reports that Mavericks planned to tank in March but Luka and Kyrie refused to sit.

On the outside it looks like Mavs only got Kyrie to tank

Assuming this is true, maybe this is why J Kidd would say this was an upper management decision at a press conference? Is it possible Luka and Kyrie didn’t want to sit the Chicago game either and Kidd was up there saying he’s on Luka and Kyries side?

I’m not saying I agree with what kidd did, but maybe him saying it was on purpose and not stupidity? I dunno, just somthing that came to mind after reading that artical.

[HMFFL]

We must turn this lottery pick into something even if we trade it off. We need a legit talent, and capitalize off it, because the free agency pool looks thin.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[41Dirk41]

if they failed to build a contender with luka (and Brunson) in rookie contract how do you think they can do it now with this situation? Bob cit.

Dallas has no option unless re-sign Kyrie and trade all the picks for 2 starters otherwise next year will be the last of Luka in Mavs jersey.

They risked it all when trading for Kyrie and I personally think this will backfire on them and Luka will be asking for a trade soon.
The small sample size of the two together isn't encouraging and this has Harden/Westbrook and Harden/Kyrie written all over.
I've never been crazy about pairing two ball-dominant superstars because it seems to result in disaster more than success.
We shall see...

We traded only role players and a 2029 pick for Irving because Luka demanded for another star.
That was a must move. Cuban&Nico had no choice and with this poor package nothing else better was available. Absolutely.

I want to wait for judge the fit when we will have a good lineup and not Bullock,THJ or Powell there please.

And after the new tank comments i can immagine how accurate are the judgments about their compatibility...

Mavs are a mess right now. The players and the FO are not aligned. Past season was a DNP for all.

[41Dirk41]

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-draft-night-trade-pick-san-antonio-spurs-jeremy-sochan-jaden-hardy

Is he really good? I've seen very little about him, but he can't shoot. I don't know if he could be our man at the 4.

Anyway he is very young.

[Teffer10]

if they failed to build a contender with luka (and Brunson) in rookie contract how do you think they can do it now with this situation? Bob cit.

Dallas has no option unless re-sign Kyrie and trade all the picks for 2 starters otherwise next year will be the last of Luka in Mavs jersey.

They risked it all when trading for Kyrie and I personally think this will backfire on them and Luka will be asking for a trade soon.
The small sample size of the two together isn't encouraging and this has Harden/Westbrook and Harden/Kyrie written all over.
I've never been crazy about pairing two ball-dominant superstars because it seems to result in disaster more than success.
We shall see...

We traded only role players and a 2029 pick for Irving because Luka demanded for another star.
That was a must move. Cuban&Nico had no choice and with this poor package nothing else better was available. Absolutely.

I want to wait for judge the fit when we will have a good lineup and not Bullock,THJ or Powell there please.

And after the new tank comments i can immagine how accurate are the judgments about their compatibility...

Mavs are a mess right now. The players and the FO are not aligned. Past season was a DNP for all.

Definitely small sample size.
I'm sorry, but you go to WCF with Luka, Brunson and a bunch of roll players.
You lose Brunson, DFS and Dinwiddie but gain Kyrie, Wood and Holiday and can't even make the POs?
And, its rumored you were tanking shortly after the trade deadline?

This thing is beyond a mess and sadly my deep concerns when the trade was made appears to be coming to fruition.
I hope Cuban doesn't compound the problem by a gazillion by signing this guy to 50+ mil a year.
It would become the worst, and most unmovable contract in the league.

I get that we were desperate to get a star with Luka, but that trade made about as much sense as my Chiefs trading for Arron Rodgers just to add another star.

[arkuo]

They risked it all when trading for Kyrie and I personally think this will backfire on them and Luka will be asking for a trade soon.
The small sample size of the two together isn't encouraging and this has Harden/Westbrook and Harden/Kyrie written all over.
I've never been crazy about pairing two ball-dominant superstars because it seems to result in disaster more than success.
We shall see...

We traded only role players and a 2029 pick for Irving because Luka demanded for another star.
That was a must move. Cuban&Nico had no choice and with this poor package nothing else better was available. Absolutely.

I want to wait for judge the fit when we will have a good lineup and not Bullock,THJ or Powell there please.

And after the new tank comments i can immagine how accurate are the judgments about their compatibility...

Mavs are a mess right now. The players and the FO are not aligned. Past season was a DNP for all.

Definitely small sample size.
I'm sorry, but you go to WCF with Luka, Brunson and a bunch of roll players.
You lose Brunson, DFS and Dinwiddie but gain Kyrie, Wood and Holiday and can't even make the POs?
And, its rumored you were tanking shortly after the trade deadline?

This thing is beyond a mess and sadly my deep concerns when the trade was made appears to be coming to fruition.
I hope Cuban doesn't compound the problem by a gazillion by signing this guy to 50+ mil a year.
It would become the worst, and most unmovable contract in the league.

I get that we were desperate to get a star with Luka, but that trade made about as much sense as my Chiefs trading for Arron Rodgers just to add another star.

There still no guarantee he signs in Dallas. Lakers and Heat can go after him. The Plan B can also be to give the max to Fred Van Vleet. He's the next best guard available. The free agent pool is thin. If you pass on Van Vleet, then Dallas will probably look to tank another year. Like I said, free agent pool is thin.

[ozwizard8]

Brunson led his team to win over Mitchell's team with great defensive cast, and rim protector. I kinda recall this.

Garland faded, Mitchell came short against Brunson. You know what I'd pay max for this Brunson guy.

[ozwizard8]

Can we offer kyrie + 1st to get Brunson back with us?

Speaking of the Nicks, if we keep the pick, I’d be interested in Mitchell Robinson. He looked good against Cleveland today. Wonder if a package could be put together is some form with them.

Not on good terms though, LOL.

All of those players worth assets. Mavs dont have any assets to bring Robinson here other than Luka.

People think Mavs can magically build around Kyr*e and Luka. Really not happening. Justin Holiday type of players are the best ones for this FO to find. DFS-Kleber was never great but even those two take some years to find and improve.

Luka-Kyrie duo is not a team to tank as Cuban trying to change the narrative. You cannot find some bad player, or rookie and hope he'll become the next DFS in 3-4 years...

Knicks went for rebuild. Also signed some FAs here and there. Now they have draft pick surplus and lots of assets. They could've traded for Donovan Mitchell but they'd kinda deplete their assets so they passed on him. Knicks will be a top suitor for next superstar asking out.

Cuban already depleted the Mavs assets. Now with Wood and Kyrie trade, no assets left. And since they're poisonous expiring contracts, we dont know what will happen. Both Kyrie and Wood can simply walk. Tons of NBA teams with cap space. Both Kyrie and Wood have some craziness, and career journeymen vibes. So you never know if they go for 1 year deal to play for Lakers etc.
Sign&trade with Lakers could be the best option. I dont want D'Lo perhaps send him to 3rd team. But I dont mind getting Vanderbilt, Rui, Malik Beasley, Bamba. With those type of role players Luka has more chance to make playoffs than with Kyr*e.

[Mavrelous]

Robinson was -15 in the game, and Brunson struggled with him on the floor, tbe Knicks won with 5 out offense, like Mavs against the Jazz.

[41Dirk41]

They risked it all when trading for Kyrie and I personally think this will backfire on them and Luka will be asking for a trade soon.
The small sample size of the two together isn't encouraging and this has Harden/Westbrook and Harden/Kyrie written all over.
I've never been crazy about pairing two ball-dominant superstars because it seems to result in disaster more than success.
We shall see...

We traded only role players and a 2029 pick for Irving because Luka demanded for another star.
That was a must move. Cuban&Nico had no choice and with this poor package nothing else better was available. Absolutely.

I want to wait for judge the fit when we will have a good lineup and not Bullock,THJ or Powell there please.

And after the new tank comments i can immagine how accurate are the judgments about their compatibility...

Mavs are a mess right now. The players and the FO are not aligned. Past season was a DNP for all.

Definitely small sample size.
I'm sorry, but you go to WCF with Luka, Brunson and a bunch of roll players.
You lose Brunson, DFS and Dinwiddie but gain Kyrie, Wood and Holiday and can't even make the POs?
And, its rumored you were tanking shortly after the trade deadline?

This thing is beyond a mess and sadly my deep concerns when the trade was made appears to be coming to fruition.
I hope Cuban doesn't compound the problem by a gazillion by signing this guy to 50+ mil a year.
It would become the worst, and most unmovable contract in the league.

I get that we were desperate to get a star with Luka, but that trade made about as much sense as my Chiefs trading for Arron Rodgers just to add another star.

That was a fake WCF, we faced the mess locker room Jazz and the PHX carried by **** Booker.

The West is much better this year and we are worse for sure because we lost Brunson for nothing and traded DFS+Dinwiddie for a Brunson replacement.
We filled a hole creating another one.
That's pretty clear but it's pretty clear too that they give up the season with Kyrie trade and put all eggs in this off season.

This is my opinion of course, we will have the answer next months.

I repeat, they had to make better moves when Luka and Brunson were in the rookie contract with a lot of cap space instead of re-sign our mediocre role players every year.
But Cuban went cheap because he always thinks he is the smarter guy in the room and now we are screwed.

[Teffer10]

The problem is that the mavs will almost be forced to move Hardy if they plan to resign Kyrie. Hardy, Green and the pick are the only trade assets we would have. Hardy plays the same positions as Kyrie nd Luka so we'd almost have to include him in a deal to get anyone halfway decent in return to address our voids on defense.