2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[Psubs]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

The solution is Donte DiVicenzo for the MLE. I'm trying to manifest this into reality.

[Psubs]

We should be looking for a perimeter shot creator. We have not had that since Kawhi (Lowry did some of it too). In an ideal world, this player develops into the player who takes the iso shots within 2 minutes.

Watching De'Aaron Fox, play his 1st playoff game, who is a career 32% 3pt shooter, go 4 for 8 from 3, shooting better than Curry and Klay.

Well of note, DiVicenzo shot 2 for 4 from deep. 4 assists to 1 turnover in Game 1.

[ArthurVandelay]

After watching all of these playoff games, i don’t want a safe guard anymore.

Give me Keyonte or Bufkin. Idc if they have high risk attached to them. I want exciting basketball in my city again and I’ll risk the 13th pick to make it happen.

Coulibaly

[ATLTimekeeper]

Prospects I can see getting drafted below 2.5 DBPM: Sensabaugh, Smith, Hood-Schifino, George, Howard, Hawkins, Murray, GG Jackson, Lewis, Whitehead, Terq Smith, Jalen Wilson, Strawther, Council, Keyontae Johnson, Kobe Brown, Emoni Bates, Tschiebwe, Mo Gueye, Timme, Wong, Hopkins, Kaluma.

So say I'm right and only max 5 prospects will have something resembling a good NBA career out of this list, which ones do we think will make it?

[Loso04]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

The solution is Donte DiVicenzo for the MLE. I'm trying to manifest this into reality.

How do you feel about Shake Milton or Ayo Dosunmu?

[PushDaRock]

Bufkin's ability to drive and finish both ways is actually huge. He brings the dribbling and shooting and lane penetration and shot creation with considerable upside. He's not even close to a finished product by any means and is raw in many areas.

I see some SGA in his game, just able to get to his spots and plays at his own pace.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

The solution is Donte DiVicenzo for the MLE. I'm trying to manifest this into reality.

Could be, Sasser is the best option for me as a guy we could bring off the bench or inject into the starting lineup. I am a big believer in his jumpshot and outlet+spacing capability. While watching the playoffs I can see him 100% holding up to the pace and intensity of an NBA playoff game. No reason to veer away from 6'2 guards when there are a ton of them in the playoffs. Masai might think the whole league will be 6'6 players one day but that's no more a reality than people exclusively driving electric vehicles.

[gha4life]

Get me keyonte or gg Jackson and I will be happy

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[gha4life]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

You know who raptor fans wouldn't ve drafted with this same thinking steph who was known purely as a shooter with limited passing and defense, he already has the tools and has showed he can add to his game

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[Psubs]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

The solution is Donte DiVicenzo for the MLE. I'm trying to manifest this into reality.

How do you feel about Shake Milton or Ayo Dosunmu?

Don't think Chicago let's go of Ayo as he might be like Dejounte Murray in the future.

Shake seems like a poor man's Brunson. I guess offering Shake the MLE if can't pry away Donte, though Shake may not be a good defender. At least he can shoot 3's at 38%.

Really, I'd sign and trade FVV to Chicago for Coby White, Lonzo (salary paid by isurance) and 1st pick (or a bunch of 2nds).

[Rodrickle]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

The solution is Donte DiVicenzo for the MLE. I'm trying to manifest this into reality.

I'd love DD but thinking there's gonna be competition for him.

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[Psubs]

You know who raptor fans wouldn't ve drafted with this same thinking steph who was known purely as a shooter with limited passing and defense, he already has the tools and has showed he can add to his game

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Steph had the ball in his hands all of the time. Hawkins is like Rip that runs around screens all day for catch and shoots.

[Rodrickle]

The ESPN Big Board got updated and I feel like it accurately places several guard prospects that will be in the Raps range:

11 Nick Smith Jr
12 Cason Wallace
13 Jordan Hawkins
14 Keyonte George
15 Jalen Hood-Schifino

Personally I am more torn between Smith Jr. and Keyonte. Wallace is the best defender but I am not confident in his offensive game and being a starting PG.

Smith Jr. cooked Wallace in the Jordan Brand game and was MVP and throughout high school seemed to outshine Wallace:

Read on Twitter

I don't think they matched up in college, but Smith Jr. still got his buckets against Kentucky. I just see Smith Jr. as having more size and wingspan and quickness/shiftiness that I see him having a better career. It may take a bit more time because he is so skinny, but the upside is real to me - he was such a different player prior to these injuries late last year.

Keyonte is thicker and stronger than Smith Jr. and has a lot to his game having the controlled chaos. Apparently he was playing 20 lbs too heavy and of course was on a bad ankle for his last weeks. He reminds me of Jamal Murray being a volume shooter who can get to anywhere on the floor, but the bonus is Keyonte is a good defender. Here he looks much slimmer:

Read on Twitter

JHS scares me the most. Toronto loves to draft boring safe PGs, and he could be a guy they like but I think he is a bust given his ugly shot and challenges getting to the rim.

The Big Board overall had a few shockers: GG at 28!; Clowney up to 19; Bufkin at 21; Black at 8 (the Giddey effect is real).

https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable/_/position/ovr/page/1

Masai loves big safe guards, but JFS doesn't have great advanced stats which is why I think we'll pass. Colby Jones on the other hand is a possibility, maybe if we trade back.

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[Psubs]

The solution is Donte DiVicenzo for the MLE. I'm trying to manifest this into reality.

I'd love DD but thinking there's gonna be competition for him.

Sent from my SM-S901W using RealGM mobile app

True! If I were Dallas, I'd try to get him.

[PhilBlackson]

I know I already mentioned it's between Keyonte or SIdy for me right now but my random thought is that I'd LOVE to draft Keyonte. I just think he has a "star" quality to his confidence/swagger which I think this team sorely NEEDS come Playoff time.

My only problem is FRED.

I still get the feeling that Masai wants to keep running this back with Fred & Pascal as his new Kyle/DeMar. But I just think if a player like Keyonte is going to succeed he has to be one of those SGs that play PG (ie/ Steph, Kyrie) where like them much of the actual PG duties of facilitating are left to Draymond or LeBron -- obv this would be Scottie's role. Then you let Keyonte go to work that way. But we can't stick with Fred. Not only do I think his own EGO wouldn't allow KG to takeover but we've already seen with Gary, you can't have too many short guys in the lineup or teams will target them each time and it's not hard because the offence always starts on the perimeter. For me, Fred MUST be S&T to allow a new era to begin.

I would love to keep OG & Pascal but Siakam in particular I'd worry wouldn't be game for using his prime years for a rebuild. But I'm sure you could get at least one REALLY good asset/young player. I wish we could get Shaedon but that ship sailed the moment POR drafted him and got to see what he can do in person everyday. There would be a possibility though of some sort of 3 team trade to get a few of their picks (ofc this year's mandatory) and ship Simons to a 3rd team for even more assets if you would like to try & find a different type of player. But I think having Scottie/Keyonte/5th pick (Ausar?!) and if you can retain OG, maybe Gary too. That would be a great start to rebuild imo and with a young core with a potential (not to mention more exciting players) that FAR exceeds the existing one.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

You know who raptor fans wouldn't ve drafted with this same thinking steph who was known purely as a shooter with limited passing and defense, he already has the tools and has showed he can add to his game

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Steph's numbers in college were much better across the board combined with high usage and indicated dominance albeit at a lesser known school. Your comparison could hold true for a guy like Brandin Podziemski (not that I am commenting on his likeness to Steph of which there is none) who put up pretty impressive stats at Santa Clara, but not for Jordan Hawkins, whose production cannot rival either of those guys and who isn't a great on-ball player or defender.

[DG88]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

You know who raptor fans wouldn't ve drafted with this same thinking steph who was known purely as a shooter with limited passing and defense, he already has the tools and has showed he can add to his game

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They're games are nothing alike even in college. Hawkins was not the primary ball handler that Steph was. Hawkins is a movement shooter like Richard Hamilton.

[Syd-TK3]

It's a bad way to use the draft. You have to choose from available pools of talent and just make the best decision.

Anyway, I keep going back to the Raptors not taking anyone with less than 2.5 DBPM over the years (I think Banton is the only one). Just going through the last 10 drafts here are the good players that had a DBPM in their draft year that was less than 2.5.

2012: Harrison Barnes, Khris Middleton, Austin Rivers
2013: Tim Hardaway Jr, CJ McCollum
2014: Jordan Clarkson, Zach LaVine, Julius Randle, Jerami Grant*, Doug McDermott
2015: Bobby Portis
2016: Ingram, Buddy Hield*, Jamal Murray, Dejounte Murray, Malik Beasley
2017: Fultz, Markannen, Kuzma
2018: Ayton, Young, Huerter*, Brunson, Devonte Graham*
2019: RJ Barret, Ja Morant, Darius Garland, Kevin Porter Jr,
2020: Anthony Edwards, Saddiq Bey, Jaden McDaniels, Maxey, Quickley*
2021: Trey Murphy
2022: Jalen Williams, Mathurin, AJ Griffin

*these players had a greater > 2.5 in previous seasons.

So not a perfect number by any means and if the Raptors stuck hard to this number they'd miss out on roughly 3-4 draft hits a year and about 1 all-star every year, it doesn't look like they'd miss on any true 1A players. The best to my mind are Trae, Ja and LaVine. As is I would consider only 20% as first options on their own team. And, looking through the list maybe 5 on these players have become known good defensive players in the NBA.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with these list of players I'd kill to have a few of them right now. So if the Raptors are really gonna let that single stat determine our pick we doomed

[Bruin]

Starting to be sold on Bufkin. He seems like he will be a good scorer in the league. Not sure he’s gonna be a 1st option kind of guy but he has the tools and he’s young

We need a guy who can get just go and get a bucket. Bufkin fits that mold. Keyonte does too, despite his poor shooting numbers

Haven’t had a chance to see much of Cason Wallace yet but I’ll start watching some scouting videos of him

[tdotrep2]

im on the hawkins train, hawkins and cidy. I dont mind keyonte, the thing that worries me about kobe is he tunnel visions, im kinda getting sick of this type of player.