2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Wait since when is RJ Barrett a good player?

The metric translated very well as he is a -11 net RTG player due to his defense.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Wait since when is RJ Barrett a good player?

The metric translated very well as he is a -11 net RTG player due to his defense.

He's a player that's had a career We're talking about the draft and most of the draft picks will not make it beyond being tossed around on small contracts or worse.

[BoyzNTheHood]

With George, Bufkin, Sasser, Terq, etc around our range there will be ideal guard depth for us to choose from. We gotta pick up our pace.

[ATLTimekeeper]

It's a bad way to use the draft. You have to choose from available pools of talent and just make the best decision.

Anyway, I keep going back to the Raptors not taking anyone with less than 2.5 DBPM over the years (I think Banton is the only one). Just going through the last 10 drafts here are the good players that had a DBPM in their draft year that was less than 2.5.

2012: Harrison Barnes, Khris Middleton, Austin Rivers
2013: Tim Hardaway Jr, CJ McCollum
2014: Jordan Clarkson, Zach LaVine, Julius Randle, Jerami Grant*, Doug McDermott
2015: Bobby Portis
2016: Ingram, Buddy Hield*, Jamal Murray, Dejounte Murray, Malik Beasley
2017: Fultz, Markannen, Kuzma
2018: Ayton, Young, Huerter*, Brunson, Devonte Graham*
2019: RJ Barret, Ja Morant, Darius Garland, Kevin Porter Jr,
2020: Anthony Edwards, Saddiq Bey, Jaden McDaniels, Maxey, Quickley*
2021: Trey Murphy
2022: Jalen Williams, Mathurin, AJ Griffin

*these players had a greater > 2.5 in previous seasons.

So not a perfect number by any means and if the Raptors stuck hard to this number they'd miss out on roughly 3-4 draft hits a year and about 1 all-star every year, it doesn't look like they'd miss on any true 1A players. The best to my mind are Trae, Ja and LaVine. As is I would consider only 20% as first options on their own team. And, looking through the list maybe 5 on these players have become known good defensive players in the NBA.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with these list of players I'd kill to have a few of them right now. So if the Raptors are really gonna let that single stat determine our pick we doomed

I haven't looked into each draft much deeper than this, but the appropriate way (I think) to consider this is could you get a better player after any of these players using that number? I would hope the Raptors would operate the same way.

So for example you're not getting a better player than Ja Morant in the 2019 draft after where he was taken. If the Raptors took DeAndre Hunter instead that would have been a bad decision. But Ja was such an insanely productive player in college his lack of defense was worth it. Time will tell if he can win as a 1A or if he's just another Lillard/Beal type, but you would still want to draft those players.

Now think about this draft in those terms.

[ATLTimekeeper]

With George, Bufkin, Sasser, Terq, etc around our range there will be ideal guard depth for us to choose from. We gotta pick up our pace.

Wasn't Bones available for 2 2nds? Late lotto pick needs to bring back a starter at minimum, not bench buckets.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Wait since when is RJ Barrett a good player?

The metric translated very well as he is a -11 net RTG player due to his defense.

He's a player that's had a career We're talking about the draft and most of the draft picks will not make it beyond being tossed around on small contracts or worse.

He probably should be playing in Taiwan though.

[BoyzNTheHood]

With George, Bufkin, Sasser, Terq, etc around our range there will be ideal guard depth for us to choose from. We gotta pick up our pace.

Wasn't Bones available for 2 2nds? Late lotto pick needs to bring back a starter at minimum, not bench buckets.

Bones is a degenerate

[Yallbecrazy]

It's a bad way to use the draft. You have to choose from available pools of talent and just make the best decision.

Anyway, I keep going back to the Raptors not taking anyone with less than 2.5 DBPM over the years (I think Banton is the only one). Just going through the last 10 drafts here are the good players that had a DBPM in their draft year that was less than 2.5.

2012: Harrison Barnes, Khris Middleton, Austin Rivers
2013: Tim Hardaway Jr, CJ McCollum
2014: Jordan Clarkson, Zach LaVine, Julius Randle, Jerami Grant*, Doug McDermott
2015: Bobby Portis
2016: Ingram, Buddy Hield*, Jamal Murray, Dejounte Murray, Malik Beasley
2017: Fultz, Markannen, Kuzma
2018: Ayton, Young, Huerter*, Brunson, Devonte Graham*
2019: RJ Barret, Ja Morant, Darius Garland, Kevin Porter Jr,
2020: Anthony Edwards, Saddiq Bey, Jaden McDaniels, Maxey, Quickley*
2021: Trey Murphy
2022: Jalen Williams, Mathurin, AJ Griffin

*these players had a greater > 2.5 in previous seasons.

So not a perfect number by any means and if the Raptors stuck hard to this number they'd miss out on roughly 3-4 draft hits a year and about 1 all-star every year, it doesn't look like they'd miss on any true 1A players. The best to my mind are Trae, Ja and LaVine. As is I would consider only 20% as first options on their own team. And, looking through the list maybe 5 on these players have become known good defensive players in the NBA.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with these list of players I'd kill to have a few of them right now. So if the Raptors are really gonna let that single stat determine our pick we doomed

If you look at the prospects that have had <2.5 dbpm and the ones that had >2.5 dbpm that were mocked around the same part of the draft I'm willing to bet a lot of money that the latter have been more successful in the NBA.

[Yallbecrazy]

Read on Twitter

I couldn't agree more with this.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Podziemski seems like the kind of guard a team like the Celtics would snatch late round and end up being a very efficient rotation player for them.

[Jerry Lucas]

Read on Twitter

I couldn't agree more with this.

If Masai "reached" for Podz at 13 (assuming other names like Walker, Gradey, Hendricks are gone already) I wouldn't even mind. It would only be a "reach" based on media mocks sleeping on him, the numbers+tape suggest otherwise. DaRon Holmes too is another guy I haven't seen mocked higher than the 2nd round that I think is really getting slept on.

Or maybe this could be the first draft since the Bruno pick they use a FRP on a non-NCAA prospect. Cissoko, Leonard Miller, Rupert and even Coulibaly if he stays in this draft all seem like non-NCAA prospects that could intrigue Masai.

Other popular names here that are mocked around pick 13 like Wallace, Whitmore and Black don't seem like the types of players Masai usually targets with FRPs despite having respectable numbers in general.

[Psubs]

Podziemski seems like the kind of guard a team like the Celtics would snatch late round and end up being a very efficient rotation player for them.

Have the Celtics had that much late 1st success? Payton Pritchard?

So many bombs like Romeo Langford.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

im on the hawkins train, hawkins and cidy. I dont mind keyonte, the thing that worries me about kobe is he tunnel visions, im kinda getting sick of this type of player.

I don't blame him, he is good at attacking closeouts and using his long legs and good angles to get to the rim quickly that I would hope he tunnels with his finishing %s. Unlike Precious Achiuwa who tunnels and fails or OG who puts the ball on the floor and bowls over defenders getting called for offensive fouls or turning the ball over.

I am really starting to feel like Bufkin is our guy and he gets enough stocks to appease IBM Watson.



Is that IBM Watson after analyzing Kobe Bufkin's information?

[raincityraptors]

Having done some draft research, I'm really drawn most to one player.

Part of this is because my favorite players are Scottie, OG and Jak.

I can see him taking advantage of Scottie's creation, benefitting from OGs ability to guard stronger wings and knowing how to make the most out of Jak's screens.

Jordan Hawkins.

If he's available at our pick, I think a movement shooter like him who can play some D is a great compliment to Scottie long term.

If you haven't been looking at the tape and analysis yet, make sure to include this kid when you do.

For better or worse Koloko was my pick last season and it's hard seeing me move off of Hawkins this year.

Watch on YouTube

Except he's not good on defense.

See this article on him:
https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/is-jordan-hawkins-the-next-elite

Not saying he won't be a good pro, but his range of outcomes aren't ideal. I wouldn't take him in the top 20.

At 13 we aren't going to find everything in a player or he would be drafted earlier.

With Hawkins, I see tools that I like that can help him become a better defender and the thing I am looking for the most in prospects in this zone is a movement shooting foundation.

I know we want a primary creator who is a movement shooter and a point of attack defender. I do too.

We can all dream right?

To me, of the three the things we need to add the most, it's a movement shooter.

[Los_29]

I think we can do a lot better than Hawkins in the late lottery.

[gha4life]

You know who raptor fans wouldn't ve drafted with this same thinking steph who was known purely as a shooter with limited passing and defense, he already has the tools and has showed he can add to his game

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Steph had the ball in his hands all of the time. Hawkins is like Rip that runs around screens all day for catch and shoots.

No he did not he was coming off screens all the time like hawkins

https://youtu.be/UNQmZqTDhw4

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[gha4life]

I think Hawkins would be an awful fit. If we're rebuilding our backcourt we need players who show multidimensional offensive ability (dribble, drive, pass, shoot 3, shoot mid, finish) on offense while showing at least some form of defensive aptitude. Without delving into it too much nbadraftnet's assessment of negatives explain why I don't want him so it'll save me time to post it instead. Hawkins' stroke is quick and compact but just like GTJ, he does not offer much outside of his shooting.

We could add prime Korver/Kapono to our team right now and it wouldn't really do enough for us. We need to use resources to find our DWade before we use lesser resources to find our Kapono.

Weaknesses: Not an efficient player right now (40 FG% as a Soph., career 39%) and doesn’t get to the rim as much as he should considering his twitchy athleticism and length … Shoots a ton of jump shots and has proven to be more streaky than consistent with it despite solid deep ball numbers … Mediocre ball-handling ability & feel for the game; posted a negative A/TO in both of his seasons at UConn (career 1/1.2) and settles quite a bit as a shot selector … Doesn’t pass the ball that much … Very right-hand dependent player; upside as an overall shot-creator and finisher at the rim amongst the trees will be limited until he improves using his left (45 FG% inside the arc) … Not a particularly physical or tough player and would benefit from adding muscle/getting stronger on both ends of the floor … Some concern that he will get washed out of plays often when working through screens defensively at the pro level … Somewhat foul prone for a guard (2.3 fpg as a Soph.) and will gamble and pick up ticky-tack reaching calls at times … Seemed to become more conservative as a help defender as the season wore along; didn’t force nearly as many turnovers down the stretch as he did at the beginning of the season …

You know who raptor fans wouldn't ve drafted with this same thinking steph who was known purely as a shooter with limited passing and defense, he already has the tools and has showed he can add to his game

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They're games are nothing alike even in college. Hawkins was not the primary ball handler that Steph was. Hawkins is a movement shooter like Richard Hamilton.

https://youtu.be/UNQmZqTDhw4

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[Spates]

I think Sidy Cissoko is good too!

[Thaddy]

We should consider some undrafted candidates since we really need 3 and defense.

Dmoi Hodge

Watch on YouTube

Kobe Brown

Watch on YouTube

[WuTang_OG]

We going guard or wing this draft. 2 way players. Cidy will be a target at 13. Workouts will help him just as they did for Jdub