we gotta talk bout kds "impaact"

[ShaqAttac]

y'all been hittin mj on dis stuff, but how bout kd. Kd now lost 7 straight and his superrteam gettin whacked by kaawhi n westbrook. i cheeck bbr and he had -50 +/- lastt time. -17 vss the bucks. is kd actually all that or is he just box-padddin

also lets stop da cap bout the suns comin out da west. al of ya wylin

[HeartBreakKid]

i dunno dawg, but i think he is WACK

[Colbinii]

Vanilla Ice in da house, KD jus a mouse

[NbaAllDay]

Kd bout to get on his alt account. He Finna wreck ya.

[1993Playoffs]

Weird responses OP asked a valid question. KDs “impact” is overrated. Clearly behind Lebron and curry and Jokic. Maybe even Giannis

[MyUniBroDavis]

Weird responses OP asked a valid question. KDs “impact” is overrated. Clearly behind Lebron and curry and Jokic. Maybe even Giannis

Killed the vibe

[No-more-rings]

Weird responses OP asked a valid question. KDs “impact” is overrated. Clearly behind Lebron and curry and Jokic. Maybe even Giannis

I’m guessing they didn’t give serious answers since the OP barely spoke coherent English.

[McBubbles]

Weird responses OP asked a valid question. KDs “impact” is overrated. Clearly behind Lebron and curry and Jokic. Maybe even Giannis

I’m guessing they didn’t give serious answers since the OP barely spoke coherent English.

Yeah as someone who actually types like they speak ShaqAttac often sounds pretty wack love em though.

[Heej]

KD showing what MJ would've been like without Phil and Pip setting him up. Just swarm and pre-flood areas using modern tactics and watch them fail

[tsherkin]

Weird responses OP asked a valid question. KDs “impact” is overrated. Clearly behind Lebron and curry and Jokic. Maybe even Giannis

KD's impact is known. He's one of the best scorers we've seen. He is an improved passer, but he's still not a Lebron-level playmaker and he doesn't create the same above-arc gravity that Steph does, nor does he provide what Jokic does. He's not a top 10 ATG guy, this everyone already knows. But even a Top 10 guy needs his team to come through, and let's be honest: 10 points on 3/12 shooting from the bench coupled to Chris Paul's performance? Not getting it done. 34 points off of LAC's bench? Major difference-maker. Letting the Clips obliterate them on the offensive glass? 15 offensive boards? That was rough. They couldn't keep Zubac, Westbrook or Plumlee away from the offensive boards and that sank them as well. Those three alone had a total of 12 offensive boards, double Phoenix's TEAM total.

OP is not good. Not sure what anyone was expecting, but Durant put 27/9/11 down on 69.6% TS in the first game. Chris Paul withered up his own behind. Kawhi played a great game and the Clippers came out ahead. Not really sure what KD was supposed to do.

[rk2023]

Weird responses OP asked a valid question. KDs “impact” is overrated. Clearly behind Lebron and curry and Jokic. Maybe even Giannis

KD's impact is known. He's one of the best scorers we've seen. He is an improved passer, but he's still not a Lebron-level playmaker and he doesn't create the same above-arc gravity that Steph does, nor does he provide what Jokic does. He's not a top 10 ATG guy, this everyone already knows. But even a Top 10 guy needs his team to come through, and let's be honest: 10 points on 3/12 shooting from the bench coupled to Chris Paul's performance? Not getting it done. 34 points off of LAC's bench? Major difference-maker. Letting the Clips obliterate them on the offensive glass? 15 offensive boards? That was rough. They couldn't keep Zubac, Westbrook or Plumlee away from the offensive boards and that sank them as well. Those three alone had a total of 12 offensive boards, double Phoenix's TEAM total.

OP is not good. Not sure what anyone was expecting, but Durant put 27/9/11 down on 69.6% TS in the first game. Chris Paul withered up his own behind. Kawhi played a great game and the Clippers came out ahead. Not really sure what KD was supposed to do.

Yea, all trolling aside I thought Durant played well. I wish him and Booker would’ve demanded the ball more down the stretch instead of letting Ayton and Paul try to mid-range the game in Phoenix’s favor (opposite ended up panning out). Though that thinking is much easier said than done, since Paul brings the ball up (I guess? Due to negative off-ball utility nowadays) and a HC play might penultimately or in end-sequence involve one of the two volume scorers.

I’ve mentioned on multiple threads, I still have Phoenix winning this in 5/6 - and stand by that for now. I liked their process (aside from brainless clutch time Offense) better. If Ayton and Paul don’t play in their heads, they likely are up 1-0 right now. Monty Williams’ rotations concern me against more serious competition.

[tsherkin]

If Ayton and Paul don’ they likely are up 1-0 right now. Monty Williams’ rotations concern me against more serious competition.

Well, and if they didn't let Kawhi absolutely smash them in the second half, either, heh.

[rk2023]

If Ayton and Paul don’ they likely are up 1-0 right now. Monty Williams’ rotations concern me against more serious competition.

Well, and if they didn't let Kawhi absolutely smash them in the second half, either, heh.

I'm more concerned about the process and why Phoenix lost the game (not to detract from Kawhi being the primary reason Clippers stole the win).

Kawhi is a surreal talent to the point where more often than not, he can score at will and score at will efficiently. Aside from Gordon in Q1, I wasn't too impressed with the scoring at all from the rest of the Clippers (though, as a 'committee' they weren't terrible). Because of that, the Suns still had a punching chance throughout after they snapped out of sleep-walking the entire 1st quarter / Durant started showing up. Kawhi did what he needed to, more than anyone else (sans Westbrook / Zu rebounding) did what they needed to down the stretch. I'll concede that.

[OhayoKD]

Weird responses OP asked a valid question. KDs “impact” is overrated. Clearly behind Lebron and curry and Jokic. Maybe even Giannis

KD's impact is known. He's one of the best scorers we've seen. He is an improved passer, but he's still not a Lebron-level playmaker and he doesn't create the same above-arc gravity that Steph does, nor does he provide what Jokic does. He's not a top 10 ATG guy, this everyone already knows. But even a Top 10 guy needs his team to come through, and let's be honest: 10 points on 3/12 shooting from the bench coupled to Chris Paul's performance? Not getting it done. 34 points off of LAC's bench? Major difference-maker. Letting the Clips obliterate them on the offensive glass? 15 offensive boards? That was rough. They couldn't keep Zubac, Westbrook or Plumlee away from the offensive boards and that sank them as well. Those three alone had a total of 12 offensive boards, double Phoenix's TEAM total.

OP is not good. Not sure what anyone was expecting, but Durant put 27/9/11 down on 69.6% TS in the first game. Chris Paul withered up his own behind. Kawhi played a great game and the Clippers came out ahead. Not really sure what KD was supposed to do.

OP's a bit wild and KD played fine, but I do think last night's game is a good example of how racking up assists doesn't necessarily mean you're creating alot. Lots of KD's assists were replacement level passes which didn't take defenders out of the play or make the teammate's job significantly easier(most prominent example was whne he basically did a hand-off and then his teammate dribbled past two defenders to score). KD scored very effeciently on moderate volume, but he didn't create much imo, and I'd push back against using the "11 assists" as evidence that he did(fwiw with rough eyeballing i think I counted 5 times KD "created" a look which is fine but nothing special). KD is not a strongs(in the playoffs) offensive runner and that didn't change yesterday.

As for KD "was supposed to do", I think, beyond his baseline defiecits, I feel Durant should have moved off-ball more. Durant said he was just "spacing in the corner" but that spacing works more effectively when you move and there were possessions where he wasn't really drawing defenders out of the action, but he'd just stay still. Beyond that Kawhi was just plainly better. Considering where Durant is ranked/perceived, getting outplayed and upset against an undermanned underdog is a fair basis for criticism. It would be one thing of Durant was viewed/rated along the likes of Lillard. But when your comparisons(on pc) are the likes of peak harden, jokic, and embid, and elsewhere are the likes of peak curry and peak giannis, just being fine on this type of team isn't really enough I feel. That being said...

Weird responses OP asked a valid question. KDs “impact” is overrated. Clearly behind Lebron and curry and Jokic. Maybe even Giannis

y'all been hittin mj on dis stuff, but how bout kd. Kd now lost 7 straight and his superrteam gettin whacked by kaawhi n westbrook. i cheeck bbr and he had -50 +/- lastt time. -17 vss the bucks. is kd actually all that or is he just box-padddin

also lets stop da cap bout the suns comin out da west. al of ya wylin

Just so you know, Kd's on/off that game was something like +100. Additionally, if we're going to use "playoff on/off", Jokic is a negative in his last three playoffs and the likes of Embid and Lebron look better over his mvp stretch

That said, it's not entirely nonsense. If we look at playoff on/off, or, for larger sample sizes, use the regular season for our without, KD's "impact" does seem to be consistently lower than his box-stuff. Like, if you took things at face value, KD's struggling in comparisons to peak Westbrook.

Is that all there is to this? No, I don't think so. I think it's fair to argue for Durant over a westbrook on the basis of flexibility. However, as alluded to above, Durant has not consistently taken advantage of this theoretical capacity. I think if we look at the results with the Warriors we get a mixed bag. The Warriors do smoke a title-worthy Cavs team in 2017 and seem to be routing the 2019 Raptors(though the league does greatly narrow before KD is hurt), but they also are down 3-2 to the healthy Rockets in 2018, and are in a dead-heat with the Rocket's diminished version in 2019.

KD doesn't consistently leverage that theoretical shooting edge in practice, and in light of that I think I'm pretty confident taking say, peak harden over him.

[rk2023]

KD doesn't consistently leverage that theoretical shooting edge in practice, and in light of that I think I'm pretty confident taking say, peak harden over him.

How come?

[MartinToVaught]

To me, the damning stat on KD's impact is that, with the greatest shooters in NBA history around him on a 73-win team, he still managed to go entire playoff games with 0 or 1 assists sometimes. That shouldn't even be possible.

[tsherkin]

but I do think last night's game is a good example of how racking up assists doesn't necessarily mean you're creating alot.

Yes, I'd agree with that, which is part of my I made my remark about how he isn't a Lebron-level playmaker, for sure.

I'd push back against using the "11 assists" as evidence that he did(fwiw with rough eyeballing i think I counted 5 times KD "created" a look which is fine but nothing special).

Sure, though I didn't say anything of the kind, so I'm unclear why that is a response to my post.

[LukaTheGOAT]

KD showing what MJ would've been like without Phil and Pip setting him up. Just swarm and pre-flood areas using modern tactics and watch them fail

MJ isn't getting his handle plucked/disturbed nearly as much as KD.

MJ in the PS before Phil took over as HC and implemented the triangle.

Inflation Adjusted 35.1 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6.1%)

Hard to believe only Phil Jackson and any other NBA genius coach of the era could find a way to use such scoring potency in a winning manner.

[TheGOATRises007]

KD showing what MJ would've been like without Phil and Pip setting him up. Just swarm and pre-flood areas using modern tactics and watch them fail

You got to let this opinion go

The Bulls problem before Phil/Pippen ascending wasn't MJ under-performing.

[TheGOATRises007]

KD showing what MJ would've been like without Phil and Pip setting him up. Just swarm and pre-flood areas using modern tactics and watch them fail

MJ is getting his handle plucked/disturbed nearly as much as KD.

MJ in the PS before Phil took over as HC and implemented the triangle.

Inflation Adjusted 35.1 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6.1%)

Hard to believe only Phil Jackson and any other NBA genius coach of the era could find a way to use such scoring potency in a winning manner.

Typo? Guessing you meant to type isn't.