What should the NBA do with Draymond Green?

[Quattro]

How much should Sabonis get for grabbing his ankle?

Zero

[Big J]

After seeing all of the angles I think 2 games for Draymond & 1 for Sabonis seems fair.

[CIN-C-STAR]

I think Draymond will get one game.

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Sabonis held on so tightly to Green's foot that Green lifted Sabonis off the ground while trying to run away. Where was Green's foot supposed to land in the heat of the moment?

It is yet to be proven that Sabonis intentionally held onto Draymond...
I think he was bracing his own head and got tangled up with Draymond's legs. Doesn't seem like Sabonis could have even registered who was was towering above him, let alone decided to hold up a player.

This is simply a bad-faith argument. You can't be serious.

Draymond has the obligation to de-escalate. If he's being held, get the refs attention. Pull away rather than stomp. I think Draymond had plenty of time and awareness to chose his response. he chose violence.

Another bad-faith argument. Sabonis grabs and holds onto Green's foot, yet it's Green's obligation to de-escalate?! This abdicates Sabonis's responsibility for creating the situation by grabbing Green's foot.

How do you know Green chose violence while he was physically being tripped up? He's already falling in the image, and remember, this is the second time Sabonis pulled Green down to the ground and held him.

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Giving so much deference to Sabonis while granting Green absolutely none is rather striking. Why do you believe Sabonis could not make the same spur-of-the-moment split decisions you expect Green to make?

Talk about arguing in bad faith...
In the clip you share from game 1 it's pretty obvious Draymond grabs Sabonis by the hamstring on the box out and then bowls him over.
How did you conclude that Sabonis "pulled Green down to the ground and held him"?

[LEGGOman]

I think a one game suspension is necessary. I don’t know if it should factor into the decision or not, but man, watching draymond going at the fans behind the bench was extremely cringe. It lasted for several minutes and I was just waiting for someone to do something stupid.


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[76Shots]

No suspension. Sabonis initiated the entire situation with a blatant non basketball play by double arm locking Greens ankle while in transition. A move that is absolutely dangerous and uncalled for. Green responded with a non basketball play to free himself, as is his right.

You can clearly see Green come down extremely hard with his foot, its not like he wiggled his foot and accidentally caught him in the face or something. There is no justification for what he did. Also it wasnt like Sabonis reached out and grabbed his leg or torqued anything, they got tangled when he landed. Neither were in “transition”, you didnt see one person argue against just a regular tech.

I think I can do a better job a telling what I saw than you. What I saw was Sabonis intentionally reach and grab Greens leg to stop him from running up the court, followed by Green attempting to yank his leg away and Sabonis hanging on, prompting Green to step on Sabonis and theatrically attempt to draw the attention of the refs in an effort to illicit a foul call on Sabonis.

No matter the amount of mental and verbal gymnastics, no matter the amount of anti-GSW /Green bias is employed, the indisputable fact is Sabonis initiated the entire ordeal.

[CraftylikeaFox]

And the poll is kinda meaningless given it's Dray, he's not exactly going to get a fair trial around here

Well considering that Draymond Green's dirty plays compilation could be just as long as his career highlight reel it's going to be hard for him to get a fair trial in these situations.

[gottamakeit]

Sabonis grabs and holds onto Green's foot, yet it's Green's obligation to de-escalate?! This abdicates Sabonis's responsibility for creating the situation by grabbing Green's foot.

1. Sabonis fall backward in the chaos of attempting a rebound.
2. His arms is already lifted to his head before he lands onto Draymond.
3. His right arm goes over his own head in self- defense, seems natural having just hit the ground near players legs.
4. His left arm* wraps around Draymond's ankle as he raises it toward his own head. This is the questionable. Sabonis may have intended to hold up a player.

So in a series of 4 things that had to happen, 3 of which were out of his control, there is a room to argue that Sabonis had intent to hold with his left arm coming up toward his own head.

A HOLD IS FUNDAMENTALLY NOT A DIRTY PLAY. A STOMP IS FUNDAMENTALLY A DIRTY PLAY.

Can you please breakdown wtf was going through Draymond's head as he stomped on Sabonis with malice?
Why did Draymond respond with violence to what could have been a non-intentional hold?
Players get held all the time, we don't see many stomps.

Are you saying that the rational response to a hold is a stomp?

How do you know Green chose violence while he was physically being tripped up? He's already falling in the image, and remember, this is the second time Sabonis pulled Green down to the ground and held him.

Draymond stood flat footed for over a second. He looks to have total balance and awareness. He looks down on Sabonis and chose his actions thereafter. You can't convince me that Draymond didn't have alternatives to disentangle himself from Sabonis.

Also in order for the trip defense to work (regarding the intent/malice behind the stomp), Draymond would need to be shown to be off-balance. Pre and post stomp, Draymond seems to be properly balanced with both feet under him. In fact his left leg doesn't leave the ground as he stomps with his right. To me that indicated that he had no intent to free himself in a normal manner (pulling away).

[infinite11285]

Spoiler:

It is yet to be proven that Sabonis intentionally held onto Draymond...
I think he was bracing his own head and got tangled up with Draymond's legs. Doesn't seem like Sabonis could have even registered who was was towering above him, let alone decided to hold up a player.

This is simply a bad-faith argument. You can't be serious.

Draymond has the obligation to de-escalate. If he's being held, get the refs attention. Pull away rather than stomp. I think Draymond had plenty of time and awareness to chose his response. he chose violence.

Another bad-faith argument. Sabonis grabs and holds onto Green's foot, yet it's Green's obligation to de-escalate?! This abdicates Sabonis's responsibility for creating the situation by grabbing Green's foot.

How do you know Green chose violence while he was physically being tripped up? He's already falling in the image, and remember, this is the second time Sabonis pulled Green down to the ground and held him.

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Giving so much deference to Sabonis while granting Green absolutely none is rather striking. Why do you believe Sabonis could not make the same spur-of-the-moment split decisions you expect Green to make?

Talk about arguing in bad faith...
In the clip you share from game 1 it's pretty obvious Draymond grabs Sabonis by the hamstring on the box out and then bowls him over.
How did you conclude that Sabonis "pulled Green down to the ground and held him"?

Good catch. I didn't notice Green's hand wrap around Sabonis' leg. I stand corrected. But Sabonis definitely grabbed Green's ankle in Game 2.

[YogurtProducer]

Depends on how injured Sabonis, he should miss how many games he does. If Sabonis is healthy he shouldn’t be suspended

No. You punish the action, not the result.

[infinite11285]

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[mccluskey]

It's hard to see the force or control by Dray, who despite his high IQ, is an uncoordinated oaf compared to most NBA players. Especially his lower body.

I hear you, but to me what Green did looks less accidental and more intentional. He might be an oaf compared to other NBA players, but he's a pro athlete - I've seen guys fall down around other players like this plenty of times in pick-up games with people who are far from pro athlete level, and 99% of the time they're able to avoid stomping on or jumping off of the guy who fell, so it's hard for me to buy that Draymond just isn't coordinated enough to avoid it.

Draymond doesn't make any attempt to move his foot so it doesn't come down on Sabonis or mitigate the impact - he's looking down at Sabonis, yanks his foot up and then brings it straight back down again hard into Sabonis' body. Then he puts full pressure on that same leg and uses Sabonis as a springboard to jump off and run downcourt.

normally once you feel the contact with the other player and raise your foot up, and even if they're holding onto it where you have to yank it upwards, you'd still try to move your leg a little bit and change the place where your foot was coming down again since you know their body is down there. You also wouldn't put normally put pressure on that foot to jump because you'd feel their body under it.

again though, it happened really quickly and I can't say for sure what either player was thinking. I just think there's more room to interpret Sabonis' action as accidental compared to Green's, especially given Draymond's history.

1. I'm not claiming Dray didn't once contact was made, intentionally try and retaliate against Sabonis. That was wrong and at the very least the flagrant 2 was a good call and if they add another game, that doesn't seem wrong to me either.

2. Dray's foot was under Sabonis's left and his ankle in his hands. Dray was going to either fall to the ground or step on Sabonis. I don't think he had the ability there to push through and avoid falling face first or stomping on Sabonis.

I will agree however that with the speed and how fast it happened, it's hard to tell HOW hard Dray stomped or how hard that pull by Sabonis was. Either way both were non basketball plays and both were dirty. Dray imo was worse, but I struggle to see Dray being a flagrant 2 plus 2 games as many suggest while Sabonis is just a regular technical.

good post - I agree with you that Sabonis probably deserves more criticism here and maybe a fine or something like that, it's just to me there's more reasonable doubt around his actions being intentional since he did what most humans naturally do in those situations by putting his arms up to protect his head.

I also think most players in Green's situation would've clearly attempted to contort their body to avoid stepping on Sabonis, which he didn't do, and if they had stepped on him, they wouldn't have pushed down again with the same foot to jump off of him the way Draymond did. So for me Green's actions look more intentional and probably deserve a one game suspension.

[dhsilv2]

Depends on how injured Sabonis, he should miss how many games he does. If Sabonis is healthy he shouldn’t be suspended

No. You punish the action, not the result.

How do you judge the full extent of the action though? If he broke his rib, we KNOW Dray really tried to hurt him or at least it's more likely. If he didn't, perhaps the stomp looked worse than it was?

[Johnny Tomala]

One game suspension and fine for Draymond. Fine for Sabonis.

[dhsilv2]

I hear you, but to me what Green did looks less accidental and more intentional. He might be an oaf compared to other NBA players, but he's a pro athlete - I've seen guys fall down around other players like this plenty of times in pick-up games with people who are far from pro athlete level, and 99% of the time they're able to avoid stomping on or jumping off of the guy who fell, so it's hard for me to buy that Draymond just isn't coordinated enough to avoid it.

Draymond doesn't make any attempt to move his foot so it doesn't come down on Sabonis or mitigate the impact - he's looking down at Sabonis, yanks his foot up and then brings it straight back down again hard into Sabonis' body. Then he puts full pressure on that same leg and uses Sabonis as a springboard to jump off and run downcourt.

normally once you feel the contact with the other player and raise your foot up, and even if they're holding onto it where you have to yank it upwards, you'd still try to move your leg a little bit and change the place where your foot was coming down again since you know their body is down there. You also wouldn't put normally put pressure on that foot to jump because you'd feel their body under it.

again though, it happened really quickly and I can't say for sure what either player was thinking. I just think there's more room to interpret Sabonis' action as accidental compared to Green's, especially given Draymond's history.

1. I'm not claiming Dray didn't once contact was made, intentionally try and retaliate against Sabonis. That was wrong and at the very least the flagrant 2 was a good call and if they add another game, that doesn't seem wrong to me either.

2. Dray's foot was under Sabonis's left and his ankle in his hands. Dray was going to either fall to the ground or step on Sabonis. I don't think he had the ability there to push through and avoid falling face first or stomping on Sabonis.

I will agree however that with the speed and how fast it happened, it's hard to tell HOW hard Dray stomped or how hard that pull by Sabonis was. Either way both were non basketball plays and both were dirty. Dray imo was worse, but I struggle to see Dray being a flagrant 2 plus 2 games as many suggest while Sabonis is just a regular technical.

good post - I agree with you that Sabonis probably deserves more criticism here and maybe a fine or something like that, it's just to me there's more reasonable doubt around his actions being intentional since he did what most humans naturally do in those situations by putting his arms up to protect his head.

I also think most players in Green's situation would've clearly attempted to contort their body to avoid stepping on Sabonis, which he didn't do, and if they had stepped on him, they wouldn't have pushed down again with the same foot to jump off of him the way Draymond did. So for me Green's actions look more intentional and probably deserve a one game suspension.

Yeah, it's hard to judge without knowing the force by either. We now know the dray didn't do any serious damage, so that means at least potentially the force was lesser than maybe we were thinking originally. If dray is actually injuries, which I'm HIGHLY skeptical of, then that would be pretty telling that Sabonis pulled much harder on Dray than perhaps we assumed as well. Of course sometimes stuff just happens, intentional or not.

All that said, if I were in dray's place, I'd have landed flat on my face lol. Both because of who I am and because well I'd have fallen flat on my face haha.

[RunOKC]

Im going with a 1 game suspension since there’s an argument Sabonis instigated it (which I disagree with, but it’s arguable)

[YogurtProducer]

Depends on how injured Sabonis, he should miss how many games he does. If Sabonis is healthy he shouldn’t be suspended

No. You punish the action, not the result.

How do you judge the full extent of the action though? If he broke his rib, we KNOW Dray really tried to hurt him or at least it's more likely. If he didn't, perhaps the stomp looked worse than it was?

If a dude throws a punch and misses, do we need to judge the full extent because he missed?

You stomped the guy, you pay the consequences. No need to "judge the full extent".

[dhsilv2]

No. You punish the action, not the result.

How do you judge the full extent of the action though? If he broke his rib, we KNOW Dray really tried to hurt him or at least it's more likely. If he didn't, perhaps the stomp looked worse than it was?

If a dude throws a punch and misses, do we need to judge the full extent because he missed?

You stomped the guy, you pay the consequences. No need to "judge the full extent".

You don't think there's a difference in the punch Gobert threw at his teammate and the one Dray did at his? Both are equal?

[Nate505]

How do you judge the full extent of the action though? If he broke his rib, we KNOW Dray really tried to hurt him or at least it's more likely. If he didn't, perhaps the stomp looked worse than it was?

If a dude throws a punch and misses, do we need to judge the full extent because he missed?

You stomped the guy, you pay the consequences. No need to "judge the full extent".

You don't think there's a difference in the punch Gobert threw at his teammate and the one Dray did at his? Both are equal?

This is way worse than what Gobert did. This bozo stomped on a man, and then went and screamed at the crowd for a minute after it.

[The High Cyde]

Suspend his ass the rest of the playoffs. You don’t get to stomp on players, and then launch yourself off their body. FOH with that crap. Tired of seeing Draymond get away with stuff for years. Send this clown and his soft franchise a message.

[Wallace_Wallace]

I wonder how Steve Kerr resolves his narrative of being classy and a better person and him looking the other way with Draymond's actions on the court.....

He couldn't respond during the interview

"I didn't see what happened in real time, and then I started a huddle with the guys during the review."

If he saw the hip check and challenged the offensive foul from Draymond to Sabonis, he definitely saw the stomp.