How strong was Duncan’s case for BITW for the 2008 season?

1993Playoffs · Post #1 » by **1993Playoffs** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:59 am

Was Recently watching some film and I don’t really see too much of a drop off from the previous year

I do see a regression offensively or maybe it’s a team scheme wise ? And may be a overall slight improvement in lateral quickness defensively

Though it is tough to overlook Kobe directly out, playing him in the playoffs and like I said his offense has declined a little bit. But how strong was his case to be called the actual best player?

Post #2 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:27 am

He was better than Kobe, but Kobe wasn't the best player in the world at any point, including 2008.

Black Feet · Post #3 » by **Black Feet** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:06 am

Texas Chuck wrote:He was better than Kobe, but Kobe wasn't the best player in the world at any point, including 2008.

Duncan wasn’t even top 5 in MVP voting he was closer to Amare who placed higher than the actual MVP Kobe that season who lead his team to a better record with Pau only playing 27 games in the regular season and then beat the Spurs 4-1 in the post season. CP3/Lebron/KG/Dwight were all probably better as well, so I don’t think he has a strong case for top 5 let alone best player in the league.

Post #4 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:13 am

Black Feet wrote:actual MVP Kobe that season who lead his team to a better record with Pau only playing 27 games in the regular season

Of relevance, the Lakers were 22-5 when Pau played. They were otherwise 35-20 (52-win pace). There was a very large impact once Pau arrived, including that 11-win streak they rattled off almost right after he joined.

Black Feet · Post #5 » by **Black Feet** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:24 am

tsherkin wrote:
Black Feet wrote:actual MVP Kobe that season who lead his team to a better record with Pau only playing 27 games in the regular season

Of relevance, the Lakers were 22-5 when Pau played. They were otherwise 35-20 (52-win pace). There was a very large impact once Pau arrived, including that 11-win streak they rattled off almost right after he joined.

100% huge impact and Lakers don’t make finals without him, just pointing out he didn’t have him for most of the season and Lakers were still winning a lot of games.

1993Playoffs · Post #6 » by **1993Playoffs** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:26 am

Black Feet wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:He was better than Kobe, but Kobe wasn't the best player in the world at any point, including 2008.

Duncan wasn’t even top 5 in MVP voting he was closer to Amare who placed higher than the actual MVP Kobe that season who lead his team to a better record with Pau only playing 27 games in the regular season and then beat the Spurs 4-1 in the post season. CP3/Lebron/KG/Dwight were all probably better as well, so I don’t think he has a strong case for top 5 let alone best player in the league.

Even comparing Amare to Duncan completely ignores defense

Post #7 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:35 am

[quote="Black Feet"
100% huge impact and Lakers don’t make finals without him, just pointing out he didn’t have him for most of the season and Lakers were still winning a lot of games.[/quote]

Yeah, they were on a 52-win pace before Pau started playing. Kobe didn't really have any business winning the MVP that year, but it was something of an "achievement" award for him, I think. Paul, KG, Lebron and I would argue both Nash and Duncan were better that year.

Black Feet · Post #8 » by **Black Feet** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:36 am

1993Playoffs wrote:
Black Feet wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:He was better than Kobe, but Kobe wasn't the best player in the world at any point, including 2008.

Duncan wasn’t even top 5 in MVP voting he was closer to Amare who placed higher than the actual MVP Kobe that season who lead his team to a better record with Pau only playing 27 games in the regular season and then beat the Spurs 4-1 in the post season. CP3/Lebron/KG/Dwight were all probably better as well, so I don’t think he has a strong case for top 5 let alone best player in the league.

Even comparing Amare to Duncan completely ignores defense

I still would take Duncan that season, just sayin he wasn’t what he used to be by 08.

Black Feet · Post #9 » by **Black Feet** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:45 am

tsherkin wrote:[quote="Black Feet"
100% huge impact and Lakers don’t make finals without him, just pointing out he didn’t have him for most of the season and Lakers were still winning a lot of games.

Yeah, they were on a 52-win pace before Pau started playing. Kobe didn't really have any business winning the MVP that year, but it was something of an "achievement" award for him, I think. Paul, KG, Lebron and I would argue both Nash and Duncan were better that year.

your entitled to your own opinion, fact is he had about triple the amount of first place votes over CP3 who came in second. He wasn’t just MVP he was the best player in the league and that was the consensus among players/coaches/media at the time.

Post #10 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:49 am

Black Feet wrote:your entitled to your own opinion, fact is he had about triple the amount of first place votes over CP3 who came in second. He wasn’t just MVP he was the best player in the league and that was the consensus among players/coaches/media at the time.

He was very much not the best player in the league, and the voters routinely mess up the MVP award, so their opinion doesn't mean a lot to me.

ShotCreator · Post #11 » by **ShotCreator** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 3:53 am

Lousy and injured season. Completely lost his prime ceiling of play.

Yet still, blows any Anthony Davis down year away. Which tells you just how good Duncan was.

Can’t even take him over Nash that year honestly. To say nothing of Garnett, LeBron, Kobe, etc

Garnett is tiered up over the league in that season as BITW IMO.

Primedeion · Post #12 » by **Primedeion** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:13 am

Kobe was the best player in the world and obviously the MVP. Duncan has zero case against him. LBJ, KG, and CP3 were also better.

GSP · Post #13 » by **GSP** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:17 am

If your top 4 that season isnt Kg, Kobe, Bron, Cp3 (no particular order) then you dont know WTF youre talking about lol

Timmy has 0 case for best in the world 08. He prolly wasnt even top 5

HeartBreakKid · Post #14 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:38 am

Black Feet wrote:
tsherkin wrote:[quote="Black Feet"
100% huge impact and Lakers don’t make finals without him, just pointing out he didn’t have him for most of the season and Lakers were still winning a lot of games.

Yeah, they were on a 52-win pace before Pau started playing. Kobe didn't really have any business winning the MVP that year, but it was something of an "achievement" award for him, I think. Paul, KG, Lebron and I would argue both Nash and Duncan were better that year.

your entitled to your own opinion, fact is he had about triple the amount of first place votes over CP3 who came in second. He wasn’t just MVP he was the best player in the league and that was the consensus among players/coaches/media at the time.

He's the most popular player of all time, don't you think that played a factor?

Jaivl · Post #15 » by **Jaivl** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:22 am

Have him #3 or #4, but what's his case over KG or Kobe?

OhayoKD · Post #16 » by **OhayoKD** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:38 am

Texas Chuck wrote:He was better than Kobe, but Kobe wasn't the best player in the world at any point, including 2008.

Then who?

70sFan · Post #17 » by **70sFan** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:27 am

I personally wouldn't take him for the best player in the league for 2008, but I think a lot of people overestimate the dropoff he experienced from the previous season. He was still the candidate for the best defender in the league and had a solid offensive year.

Injuries hurt his case in the playoffs unfortunately, but I find it always funny how people view Duncan's 2008 performance vs LAL as a failure, while propping up KG for his finals performance. Duncan was still absurdly dominant defensively in WCF, they just happened to face Kobe at his peak and Spurs were worse suited to stop Bryant at this point. Even with Kobe explosion, LAL offense was wildly inefficient vs Spurs. If you want to criticize him for anything in that season, you should do that on the basis of his performance vs NOH.

Still, he was a clearly top 5 player to me - along with Kobe/Garnett/James/Paul.

70sFan · Post #18 » by **70sFan** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:29 am

GSP wrote:If your top 4 that season isnt Kg, Kobe, Bron, Cp3 (no particular order) then you dont know WTF youre talking about lol

Very strong statement with no arguments to back it up.

Timmy has 0 case for best in the world 08. He prolly wasnt even top 5

Even stronger statement with no arguments to back it up.

I seriously wonder sometimes if some people still limit their analysis on looking at the basketball-reference page here. Duncan didn't come from the best player in the league in 2007 to outside top 5 in 2008, even taking injuries into account.

Colbinii · Post #19 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:01 pm

70sFan wrote:
GSP wrote:If your top 4 that season isnt Kg, Kobe, Bron, Cp3 (no particular order) then you dont know WTF youre talking about lol

Very strong statement with no arguments to back it up.

Timmy has 0 case for best in the world 08. He prolly wasnt even top 5

Even stronger statement with no arguments to back it up.

I seriously wonder sometimes if some people still limit their analysis on looking at the basketball-reference page here. Duncan didn't come from the best player in the league in 2007 to outside top 5 in 2008, even taking injuries into account.

Isn't Chuck's statement also very strong?

Narigo · Post #20 » by **Narigo** » Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:11 pm

70sFan wrote:Still, he was a clearly top 5 player to me - along with Kobe/Garnett/James/Paul.

Whats Duncan's case over Dirk