2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[OakleyDokely]

Some of the top NCAA prospects, ranked by TS%:

Freshman:
T Hendricks: .589
B Sensabaugh: .587
B Miller: .583
G Dick: .581
C Whitmore: .571
J Howard: .562
A Bailey: .553
A Black: .549
D Whitehead: .548
C Wallace: .543
J Walker: .534
K Filipowski: .533
K George: .524
J Hood-Schifino: .492
GG Jackson: .474
N Smith: .472

Soph:
B Podziemski: .602
J Hawkins: .584
K Bufkin: .578
T Alexander: .578
M Lewis: .567
T Smith: .494

Junior/Senior:
J Strawther: .602
M Sasser: .597
C Jones: .580
K Murray: 572
J Jaquez: .543
R Council: .542
J Wilson: .540
A Jackson: .509


I bolded the guys that standout to me.

[Psubs]

Franz is an outlier. The inconsistency in this thread is astounding. People will talk about one guy with rose coloured glasses on and bash another for the same reasons they love someone else.

I saw the talent and the value and wanted him before moving up to #4. I wasn't as sold on Scottie or Sengun in that drafat but I was wrong about them. I think at #4 with Scottie, management saw the Chris Webber type and got it right.

At #8, I saw that Franz could at least be Detlef Schremp and that's okay.

I was pretty much alone on Scottie in here. There are pages arguing back and forth about him because the Suggs fanboys couldn’t be tamed.

I knew Franz was quality at the time too, but not over Scottie and definitely not a 20ppg scorer in the NBA.

I though Franz would be around 15ppg but I guess the right situation with a bad team has him closer to 20. Though getting Banchero cut into his shots. Giddey was also a potential get who is putting up near triple double stats but the scouting report is accurate that his defense is so bad.

I don't see why Cissoko can't put up similar numbers to Franz and be dunking on people too.

At 6'9 Franz only gets 4 rebounds per game but he's more of a SF. Cissoko will also be a point forward. Franz's A/T as a rookie was a sweet 2 but in his 2nd year it's 1.66.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[HumbleRen]

I saw the talent and the value and wanted him before moving up to #4. I wasn't as sold on Scottie or Sengun in that drafat but I was wrong about them. I think at #4 with Scottie, management saw the Chris Webber type and got it right.

At #8, I saw that Franz could at least be Detlef Schremp and that's okay.

I was pretty much alone on Scottie in here. There are pages arguing back and forth about him because the Suggs fanboys couldn’t be tamed.

I knew Franz was quality at the time too, but not over Scottie and definitely not a 20ppg scorer in the NBA.

I though Franz would be around 15ppg but I guess the right situation with a bad team has him closer to 20. Though getting Banchero cut into his shots. Giddey was also a potential get who is putting up near triple double stats but the scouting report is accurate that his defense is so bad.

I don't see why Cissoko can't put up similar numbers to Franz and be dunking on people too.

At 6'9 Franz only gets 4 rebounds per game but he's more of a SF. Cissoko will also be a point forward. Franz's A/T as a rookie was a sweet 2 but in his 2nd year it's 1.66.

Do you think Sidy can become better than Scottie then ? That's basically what you're saying since Franz is better than Scottie atm.

[OakleyDokely]

Draft year TS% of Raptors picked under Masai:

1st Rnd Picks:
Poeltl: .665
Wright: .619
OG: .611
Flynn: .583
Siakam: .569
Barnes: .548

2nd Rnd Picks:
Koloko: .661
Hernandez: .600
Harris: .560
Daniels: .559
Powell: .540
Johnson: .504
Banton: .495

[ATLTimekeeper]

Cissoko is a decent player but this Top 5 talk is really crazy yall.

I'd take a chance on him if we move down but outside of his flashy passing, size and physical tools, he really isn't that impressive. He is not a reliable shooter from anywhere on the floor and cannot create his own offense.

If we move back and Bufkin, Jones and Podz are unavailable, sure I'd give him a look. But not in the lottery, much less the Top 5.

At 18 playing with the NBA line I don't really think you can read too much into reliability. It's a developing skill to be sure. I agree with Psubs that he has Scottie's gift of court vision and looks to me to have a better handle. He doesn't need to put his head down to bully his way to the basket. Good efficiency in the paint outside the rim means he has some touch. Draws a good amount of fouls in primarily an off-ball role, usually means the player is hard to play against. He might not blow up as a scorer, but another Scottie would be a top 5 pick in any draft, so I don't think it's insane to be really high on him (and low on currently mocked lotto prospects).

I do. The only player currently mocked in the lotto that I would Cissoko over is Sensabaugh.

Don't get me wrong - I like Cissoko and I think he could have a role at the next level but I'm tired of these long, unskilled players. If we're building around Barnes (who still has a ways to go in his own right), which we should, I don't see the sense in bringing in another player who has the same strengths and weaknesses as he does. Worse actually since Barnes is the more talent one of the two.

So yeah. If he's the best player on the board in a move down situation, sure. But if not, I'm fine with passing on him. The truth is there are better players available than him.

Okay, but your own evaluation is biased by the Raptors' philosophy. We're just talking about Cissoko's quality relative to the available talent.

Right now you have low scoring defensive guards like Wallace, Black seemingly locked in the lotto. Or low scoring forwards like Wallace, Hendricks. I think that Cissoko should be mentioned in the same tier as those players.

And then I personally just bias against unproductive college players (Smith Jr, George, Howard, Whitmore). I wouldn't burn a lotto pick on any of them.

[Rapsfan07]

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This is big news. Leaving the draft with a guard and him would be massive for the future of this team.

[niQ]

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I really like this kid's upside.

[OakleyDokely]

Masai typically goes with NCAA guys (other than the Bruno pick), probably because they're more projectable due to more data. I wonder if that continues with so many international / gleague guys projected around the Raps spot.

[Psubs]

I was pretty much alone on Scottie in here. There are pages arguing back and forth about him because the Suggs fanboys couldn’t be tamed.

I knew Franz was quality at the time too, but not over Scottie and definitely not a 20ppg scorer in the NBA.

I though Franz would be around 15ppg but I guess the right situation with a bad team has him closer to 20. Though getting Banchero cut into his shots. Giddey was also a potential get who is putting up near triple double stats but the scouting report is accurate that his defense is so bad.

I don't see why Cissoko can't put up similar numbers to Franz and be dunking on people too.

At 6'9 Franz only gets 4 rebounds per game but he's more of a SF. Cissoko will also be a point forward. Franz's A/T as a rookie was a sweet 2 but in his 2nd year it's 1.66.

Do you think Sidy can become better than Scottie then ? That's basically what you're saying since Franz is better than Scottie atm.

Right now Sidy shoots the NBA 3 better than Scottie (though against lower competition on defense and less leverage games). I see their passing as even. Scottie seems to be a better finisher at the rim, due to being 6'9 with a longer wingspan. I think he has just as much potential as Scottie did at Florida State. Because Scottie has already won ROY in the NBA and he's already developing, it would be a fools bet on even odds. But if lining up the timelines without any mocks influencing where we think players can go, just looking at stats and film, I'd say it's a coin toss slightly in Scottie's favour due to size. Scottie wasn't even a starter on FSU.

[Psubs]

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This is big news. Leaving the draft with a guard and him would be massive for the future of this team.

Whoa, if he grew to 6'8 that's huge as he'd be like a skinny Kuminga type prospect. I guess Bilal's shooting might be a little better than Kuminga.

[HumbleRen]

I though Franz would be around 15ppg but I guess the right situation with a bad team has him closer to 20. Though getting Banchero cut into his shots. Giddey was also a potential get who is putting up near triple double stats but the scouting report is accurate that his defense is so bad.

I don't see why Cissoko can't put up similar numbers to Franz and be dunking on people too.

At 6'9 Franz only gets 4 rebounds per game but he's more of a SF. Cissoko will also be a point forward. Franz's A/T as a rookie was a sweet 2 but in his 2nd year it's 1.66.

Do you think Sidy can become better than Scottie then ? That's basically what you're saying since Franz is better than Scottie atm.

Right now Sidy shoots the NBA 3 better than Scottie (though against lower competition on defense and less leverage games). I see their passing as even. Scottie seems to be a better finisher at the rim, due to being 6'9 with a longer wingspan. I think he has just as much potential as Scottie did at Florida State. Because Scottie has already won ROY in the NBA and he's already developing, it would be a fools bet on even odds. But if lining up the timelines without any mocks influencing where we think players can go, just looking at stats and film, I'd say it's a coin toss slightly in Scottie's favour due to size. Scottie wasn't even a starter on FSU.

Sheesh man, I really don't know about that lol.

I wasn't really a Scottie fan but he was a great prospect coming out of the draft. I don't think Sidy is near that caliber of a prospect lol.

Would love to be proven wrong because I do like Sidy.

[Rapsfan07]

At 18 playing with the NBA line I don't really think you can read too much into reliability. It's a developing skill to be sure. I agree with Psubs that he has Scottie's gift of court vision and looks to me to have a better handle. He doesn't need to put his head down to bully his way to the basket. Good efficiency in the paint outside the rim means he has some touch. Draws a good amount of fouls in primarily an off-ball role, usually means the player is hard to play against. He might not blow up as a scorer, but another Scottie would be a top 5 pick in any draft, so I don't think it's insane to be really high on him (and low on currently mocked lotto prospects).

I do. The only player currently mocked in the lotto that I would Cissoko over is Sensabaugh.

Don't get me wrong - I like Cissoko and I think he could have a role at the next level but I'm tired of these long, unskilled players. If we're building around Barnes (who still has a ways to go in his own right), which we should, I don't see the sense in bringing in another player who has the same strengths and weaknesses as he does. Worse actually since Barnes is the more talent one of the two.

So yeah. If he's the best player on the board in a move down situation, sure. But if not, I'm fine with passing on him. The truth is there are better players available than him.

Okay, but your own evaluation is biased by the Raptors' philosophy. We're just talking about Cissoko's quality relative to the available talent.

Right now you have low scoring defensive guards like Wallace, Black seemingly locked in the lotto. Or low scoring forwards like Wallace, Hendricks. I think that Cissoko should be mentioned in the same tier as those players.

And then I personally just bias against unproductive college players (Smith Jr, George, Howard, Whitmore). I wouldn't burn a lotto pick on any of them.

Sort of. I see how you could arrive at that conclusion.

But irrespective of the Raptors drafting philosophy or current roster construction, I still don't think Cissoko is a better prospect than Bufkin, for example.

I also think that if you're swinging for upside, you have to consider: the ceiling of a player, how far away from that ceiling are they and the likelihood of them reaching said ceiling. I think Cissoko's ceiling is a Diaw with less defense kind of player. I'd rather swing on a Whitmore because if he pans out, he's a much better player than that. Bufkin, for example, is a Poole with defense type of player if he pans out. Again, I'd rather I have that. There is also, by my estimation, a higher likelihood that he arrives there than Cissoko turning into Diaw because there is less separating the two in terms of skillset than there is between Cissoko and Diaw.

I hope I'm describing my thought process in a way that makes sense. Even George, if he pans out to be a reliable sixth man type, is more valuable to me than Cissoko. I don't hate Cissoko though, don't get me wrong. But I'm not as high on him as many here are. I've seen him play in real life and I really don't think he's all that. He is massive though.

If we're moving back - sure, especially since we'd likely be picking him ALONG with another asset. But at #13? No.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Eh, not really lol. They're both connectors but that's about where the comparisons stop at.

He wasn't a scorer at Michigan.

Ya, he was an elite glue-guy that people said he didn't to anything great, but I saw that he did everything above average. I think people saw that his brother was a bust but that's because he's not quick enough and didn't have a variety of other tools. Mo might be able to stick for a few more years like Miles Plumlee.

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The scouting report sounds like for 18 year old Sidy.

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Germany really isn't as talented as the French junior pool so it was harder to judge Franz back then. Franz's shooting stroke looks sweet but he didn't get to shoot that much as Michigan had so many shooters that shot around 40% from 3, which shows he plays within the team. Cissoko also plays within the team, maybe that's why people think he can't create for himself. To me that just means that he's not a selfish player (FVV). Cissoko seems to make the read that's best for the team, not one that will get him paid.

The difference is that Franz showed even in limited usage very solid offensive efficiency and had a really good FT%, the stocks were there while not being overaggressive on defense and the rebounding totals were better.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Taylor Hendricks is going a few spots after Brandon Miller is selected I'm confident about that.

[Psubs]

https://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.aspx?Age=18

I see Bilal and Rupert were also on the team with Cissoko.

[OakleyDokely]

Julian Strawther, 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan. He's posted a 60% TS in every year at Gonzaga. He had 47/40/77 splits this year.

I think he gets unfairly dinged because he's a junior (even though he only just turned 21). Could be a draft day sleeper.

[WuTang_CMB]

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I really like this kid's upside.

I hope we can move back this draft if Cason/Hendricks dont fall.

[BoyzNTheHood]

https://www.eurobasket.com/France/basketball-National-Team.aspx?Age=18

I see Bilal and Rupert were also on the team with Cissoko.

To me, that looks like Sidy was the best current prospect, but Bilal is right there in less minutes. The one thing that stands out is Sidy’s assist numbers. Bilal is superior to Rupert and it’s pretty clear to see in my opinion.

[Psubs]

Julian Strawther, 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan. He's posted a 60% TS in every year at Gonzaga. He had 47/40/77 splits this year.

I think he gets unfairly dinged because he's a junior (even though he only just turned 21). Could be a sleeper like Jalen Williams.

I think he could be a good bench player like Alec Burks, who was drafted too high at #12. At least he wasn't a bust like Jan Vessely or Jimmer Fredette.