ROUND 1, GAME #3 SUNS @ Clippers—THURS 7:30 PM NBA-TV/Bally

[nickhx2]

Its official. Kawhi and PG are both out tomorrow. Honestly we have something to build off of with this hardworking type play we saw in game 3 going forward. Move one of the star players if not both, resign Russ, incorporate the youth in the rotation, and go from there. Love PG & Kawhi but we can't do another year of this. One more year at Staples/Crypto with this hard working bunch then have the hot fun loving team for the Intuit Dome opening season

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obviously i don't know how much the FO still believes in 213, but if they feel anything like we do as fans, then i can imagine they are going to move on

what that means necessarily? i dunno. like, i'm still willing to roll with kawhi because we know he straight up goes into death star mode in the playoffs. and i 1000% believe that if he wasn't dealing with ACL recovery, he would have been stable enough to avoid this knee sprain this time around - and that's to say nothing of the run we might have had that year with both of them fully healthy, esp against a suns team that had every advantage stacked in their favor with rigged-as-hell calls, scheduling, and injuries to our key guys.

but i think pretty clearly that having two injury prone guys join forces is testing fate. and well, we've tested it for a few years now and it's only ended up in bad results. if the team does a full blow up, i'm ok with it. if the team moves paul george and builds a legitimately stable roster whose only major piece going in and out is kawhi? i'm preferential to that.

but otherwise, at the very least we need to find a way to move paul george. if not because he's unreliable, then because he's simply not a great fit for kawhi. i get that they had to or they'd risk losing kawhi to the lakers and having them dominate for the next 10 years. and i get that they had to send all the picks to do it. but man, this team really had to pick the worst fit for kawhi, not just on the court as a player, but because he just kept not making on to the court.

if we do decide to blow it all up and reset with our youth core of zubac/mann/bones/boston/whomever we get in return for kawhi/pg, it's only a matter of time before some of the new guard of the NBA become free agents. lots of options available for us, for sure.

[esqtvd]

meanwhile, back at we the living

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[Clemenza]

Its official. Kawhi and PG are both out tomorrow. Honestly we have something to build off of with this hardworking type play we saw in game 3 going forward. Move one of the star players if not both, resign Russ, incorporate the youth in the rotation, and go from there. Love PG & Kawhi but we can't do another year of this. One more year at Staples/Crypto with this hard working bunch then have the hot fun loving team for the Intuit Dome opening season

Read on Twitter

obviously i don't know how much the FO still believes in 213, but if they feel anything like we do as fans, then i can imagine they are going to move on

what that means necessarily? i dunno. like, i'm still willing to roll with kawhi because we know he straight up goes into death star mode in the playoffs. and i 1000% believe that if he wasn't dealing with ACL recovery, he would have been stable enough to avoid this knee sprain this time around - and that's to say nothing of the run we might have had that year with both of them fully healthy, esp against a suns team that had every advantage stacked in their favor with rigged-as-hell calls, scheduling, and injuries to our key guys.

but i think pretty clearly that having two injury prone guys join forces is testing fate. and well, we've tested it for a few years now and it's only ended up in bad results. if the team does a full blow up, i'm ok with it. if the team moves paul george and builds a legitimately stable roster whose only major piece going in and out is kawhi? i'm preferential to that.

but otherwise, at the very least we need to find a way to move paul george. if not because he's unreliable, then because he's simply not a great fit for kawhi. i get that they had to or they'd risk losing kawhi to the lakers and having them dominate for the next 10 years. and i get that they had to send all the picks to do it. but man, this team really had to pick the worst fit for kawhi, not just on the court as a player, but because he just kept not making on to the court.

if we do decide to blow it all up and reset with our youth core of zubac/mann/bones/boston/whomever we get in return for kawhi/pg, it's only a matter of time before some of the new guard of the NBA become free agents. lots of options available for us, for sure.

I hear you but from what it sounds like I think the front office, coaching staff, and team is tired of Kawhi letting them know when he's playing or not playing and sometimes this happens a few hours before tip off time. A few weeks ago when Kawhi played that first half but for some reason sat out the second half- Ty Lue and the team had no clue that this was going to happen as Kawhi basically sat himself down for the rest of the game. Kawhi is definitely the better player of the two stars but PG, even with his own injury situation, is way easier to deal with. I'm not sure if the team and front office wants to keep dealing with Kawhi and his camp beyond this season. We'll see. Maybe Ballmer still likes the duo but if they stay there needs to be contingency plans so everything doesn't center around these two anymore going forward. Now all that load management and not playing back to backs seems like a joke and made no sense whatsoever

[nickhx2]

i'd only wanna add this, btw

not sure how it all works given the salaries are the same for the next couple years, with lillard having those extra megabux years for 58m and then 63m, but boy i'd do that trade in a heartbeat. obviously doubt portland would, but maybe if they're tired of having the smallest guards ever all on the same team, they'd be willing to do some business in exchange for paul george + whatever?

could we do better? probably, but to me, moving a worse fit and less reliable piece for someone who's better at both is something you do when it comes to kawhi. this team's MO should have been to build around kawhi year-round, ALL things considered, and i don't think they did the best job of that.

[The High Cyde]

We gotta get Luka or Giannis…groundbreaking I know haha

[MartinToVaught]

We gotta get Luka or Giannis…groundbreaking I know haha

We have to develop our own players instead of searching for a quick fix from other teams. Didn't work with CP3, hasn't worked with Kawhi and PG.

[The High Cyde]

We gotta get Luka or Giannis…groundbreaking I know haha

We have to develop our own players instead of searching for a quick fix from other teams. Didn't work with CP3, hasn't worked with Kawhi and PG.

I agree, it’s just easier when you have a bonafide superstar on the roster. Those two are hyper competitive, more so than PG and Kawhi. It’s always a gamble on health though. This scenario is so slim and far out, most likely will never happen and your approach is much more likely, only persons who’ll have a say is the superstars and Ballmer.

[Ballings7]

And he won't be back.. :/

Well, time to play spoiler and see what can be done. I'd say Suns in 6 now.

[Quake Griffin]

As the years go by, that Game 2 win at GSW is just not important.


Should have tanked for the pick.
More importantly, shouldn’t have bent over backwards for this guy and gave him the keys to our franchise. He’s not built to have the keys to a franchise. He’s definitely not built to require a team trade a whole freight for PG.

[esqtvd]

As the years go by, that Game 2 win at GSW is just not important.


Should have tanked for the pick.
More importantly, shouldn’t have bent over backwards for this guy and gave him the keys to our franchise. He’s not built to have the keys to a franchise. He’s definitely not built to require a team trade a whole freight for PG.

So in the end, the buck stops with Ballmer. Ballmer made the decision to pursue Kawhi, even sending L-Frank to stalk him at Raptors games. Then traded away the future for PG to seal the deal.

Eyes wide open--the FO just made it happen as best they could, then after committing over $80M of the salary cap to two oft-injured 30-year-olds, surrounded them with the best talent they could find on the cheap.

"Developing our own talent" sounds like a plan, but unless you're drafting 10 or below, your odds are shaky. Statistically, to get just ONE All- Star, you need 4 lottery picks or 12 non-lottery FRPs.

Lottery Picks(1–14) → 108/420 = 25.7% probability of All-Star
Non Lottery Picks(1st Rd) → 35/449 = 7.8% probability of All-Star

[Clemenza]

i'd only wanna add this, btw

not sure how it all works given the salaries are the same for the next couple years, with lillard having those extra megabux years for 58m and then 63m, but boy i'd do that trade in a heartbeat. obviously doubt portland would, but maybe if they're tired of having the smallest guards ever all on the same team, they'd be willing to do some business in exchange for paul george + whatever?

could we do better? probably, but to me, moving a worse fit and less reliable piece for someone who's better at both is something you do when it comes to kawhi. this team's MO should have been to build around kawhi year-round, ALL things considered, and i don't think they did the best job of that.

Why get Lillard when Russ does twice as much on both ends of the floor but at one-forth the cost? Not the better shooter of course but Dame does nothing on the defensive end and is injured way more than Russ. Also the Celtics Jaylen Brown is about to be a free agent after next season. Now that's the guy to go after and get!

[Clemenza]

We gotta get Luka or Giannis…groundbreaking I know haha

I like Giannis but Luka doesn't take care of his body, too ball dominate, and can't play with another star player. We gotta start developing youth.

[The High Cyde]

We gotta get Luka or Giannis…groundbreaking I know haha

I like Giannis but Luka doesn't take care of his body, too ball dominate, and can't play with another star player. We gotta start developing youth.

Agreed on Luka and the push for developing youth. I forgot about Jaylen until you mentioned him above, he’d be a massive catch as well.

[nickhx2]

i'd only wanna add this, btw

not sure how it all works given the salaries are the same for the next couple years, with lillard having those extra megabux years for 58m and then 63m, but boy i'd do that trade in a heartbeat. obviously doubt portland would, but maybe if they're tired of having the smallest guards ever all on the same team, they'd be willing to do some business in exchange for paul george + whatever?

could we do better? probably, but to me, moving a worse fit and less reliable piece for someone who's better at both is something you do when it comes to kawhi. this team's MO should have been to build around kawhi year-round, ALL things considered, and i don't think they did the best job of that.

Why get Lillard when Russ does twice as much on both ends of the floor but at one-forth the cost? Not the better shooter of course but Dame does nothing on the defensive end and is injured way more than Russ. Also the Celtics Jaylen Brown is about to be a free agent after next season. Now that's the guy to go after and get!

i personally don't have any expectation that westbrook will stay, and if he does it wouldn't be for any nominal cost either. as far as i can tell, he's rehabbed his image enough that he can go wherever he wants. that said, if playing with this team is the first time he's been made to feel content/happy/himself since the OKC mvp days, maybe he stays. all just speculation, at any rate.

that said i'll admit i'm viewing it through not just that lens but also i'm of the mind that a passing/shooting playmaker in the mold of lillard is a better fit for kawhi overall, given he can space the floor better than anyone not named curry/durant, and he's a reliable crunch time scorer/facilitator too. and in the days kawhi is off, lillard can carry the team offensively in a way westbrook can't. to me that's more important than westbrook being a better (and sometimes not all that great) defender/rebounder/what have you.

but anyway, player assessments are all an aside. i'm just not convinced he's staying, but if he were to stay you might as well just keep paul george because trading him will likely be a net-loss in value, and westbrook's biggest issues revolve around his inability to space the floor. wouldn't make a lot of sense to send high volume shooters out the door.

[nickhx2]

We gotta get Luka or Giannis…groundbreaking I know haha

I like Giannis but Luka doesn't take care of his body, too ball dominate, and can't play with another star player. We gotta start developing youth.

Agreed on Luka and the push for developing youth. I forgot about Jaylen until you mentioned him above, he’d be a massive catch as well.

ok hear me out on this guys

i want ZION

[nickhx2]

besides who really wants to root for luka

dude's a donkey that complains and cries more than anyone i've ever seen in NBA history and we are talking about a league that has seen draymond green featured as a top player for years now

[MartinToVaught]

Zion would put us right back in this same spot, hoping this is the year he "feels like Zion" enough to play for an entire postseason (spoiler alert: he won't and never will).

[mttwlsn16]

At this point I'm about ready to move on from both Kawhi and PG. Love em both but this **** is annoying at this point.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Clemenza]

i'd only wanna add this, btw

not sure how it all works given the salaries are the same for the next couple years, with lillard having those extra megabux years for 58m and then 63m, but boy i'd do that trade in a heartbeat. obviously doubt portland would, but maybe if they're tired of having the smallest guards ever all on the same team, they'd be willing to do some business in exchange for paul george + whatever?

could we do better? probably, but to me, moving a worse fit and less reliable piece for someone who's better at both is something you do when it comes to kawhi. this team's MO should have been to build around kawhi year-round, ALL things considered, and i don't think they did the best job of that.

Why get Lillard when Russ does twice as much on both ends of the floor but at one-forth the cost? Not the better shooter of course but Dame does nothing on the defensive end and is injured way more than Russ. Also the Celtics Jaylen Brown is about to be a free agent after next season. Now that's the guy to go after and get!

i personally don't have any expectation that westbrook will stay, and if he does it wouldn't be for any nominal cost either. as far as i can tell, he's rehabbed his image enough that he can go wherever he wants. that said, if playing with this team is the first time he's been made to feel content/happy/himself since the OKC mvp days, maybe he stays. all just speculation, at any rate.

that said i'll admit i'm viewing it through not just that lens but also i'm of the mind that a passing/shooting playmaker in the mold of lillard is a better fit for kawhi overall, given he can space the floor better than anyone not named curry/durant, and he's a reliable crunch time scorer/facilitator too. and in the days kawhi is off, lillard can carry the team offensively in a way westbrook can't. to me that's more important than westbrook being a better (and sometimes not all that great) defender/rebounder/what have you.

but anyway, player assessments are all an aside. i'm just not convinced he's staying, but if he were to stay you might as well just keep paul george because trading him will likely be a net-loss in value, and westbrook's biggest issues revolve around his inability to space the floor. wouldn't make a lot of sense to send high volume shooters out the door.

I get it but after this season you can't depend on Kawhi for anything at all much less gamelan as to what acquisition would be a good fit for him. You get Lillard and the $200 million that's owned to him over the next four years and if Kawhi's not healthy and sitting out every other game and missing playoff series and then what? I wouldn't plan around Kawhi one single bit for the future if I'm running this team

[Captain Ballmer]

if you blow this up, there is no trade 1 and keep other scenario. You trade kawhi first because he is still the big ticket that get you either blue chip player with haul of draft picks.

After that, everyone will know PG13 out there available. And a lot of team will feel the pressure of getting him simply because their trajectory heavily changed with one of their opponent just got Kawhi Leonard.

For example, if you trade Kawhi to Raptors for their picks and scottie barnes, then all of eastern conference teams will have to knock your door for the availability of PG13. You choose the best on the table.

Also i would send norman and zubac too for a non lottery first round pick. Norman with last game may just reach to that level of return. Zubac might gate us only late first probably.

Just roll with Russ-Mann-(piece from Pg)-(piece from kawhi) and 30th pick big. Hyland and Boston/coffey from bench.