Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[ChuckS]

I do not understand the worry about JV's extension, and do not see it as an impediment to signing a new coach at any time.

I do not know the amount but suspect the cost is relatively minimal compared to player salaries or any other expense. They probably spend more on a three year rookie contract of someone who could not earn an extension. If not, they certainly have spent more on larger, longer term, contracts of those who have not earned them, or missed years for health reasons.

In the business world there is something called a "golden parachute". Businesses offer a financial guarantee to executives who might be untimely terminated. I doubt JV was in a position to demand such, but Marks and/or Tsai might have done what they did for putting a loyal, seven year contributor, in a possible no win situation. We say it is a player's league, but we do not have to tell that to a fired coach.

Maybe it's just me. But I find it impossible to believe that Joe Tsai is financially stupid.

[Shark]

I'm open to the idea of getting Dame if the compensation is mostly draft picks and expiring contracts (Spencer, Joe, Royce). Not sure how feasible that is though.

A core of Dame, Mikal, Clax, and Cam J is probably a top 3 team in the East. Probably not a true contender but maybe we get lucky and Ben returns to form too (lol). At the very least we have a true first option which has been a glaring flaw since the trade deadline. Mikal is very good but not a true "bucket getter." Dame would probably help elevate his game even further.

Downside is Dame is approaching his mid 30s and has a massive contract. I also don't trust Marks to build a cohesive roster.

Dame also hasn't been able to stay healthy the past few seasons and I wonder how patient he'd be with this team considering he's getting late in his career and I'm sure he really wants a ring. Honestly I'm not entirely sure we'd be a massive improvement over Portland in so far as giving him a chance at a chip.

[3pt_chucker]

Nick Nurse and Udoka are available and are about to take crap/meh jobs (Houston, Toronto), meanwhile, the Nets are stuck with a below average head coach.

How can Joe Tsai see all this mediocrity and do nothing?? He didn't even hire Marks ffs Why is he sooo loyal to him? I'm beginning to think Marks has some dirt on Tsai's business deals that are shady. Makes no sense otherwise. New owners always want their own guys to run their franchise... except Tsai.

[3pt_chucker]

I do not understand the worry about JV's extension, and do not see it as an impediment to signing a new coach at any time.

I do not know the amount but suspect the cost is relatively minimal compared to player salaries or any other expense. They probably spend more on a three year rookie contract of someone who could not earn an extension. If not, they certainly have spent more on larger, longer term, contracts of those who have not earned them, or missed years for health reasons.

In the business world there is something called a "golden parachute". Businesses offer a financial guarantee to executives who might be untimely terminated. I doubt JV was in a position to demand such, but Marks and/or Tsai might have done what they did for putting a loyal, seven year contributor, in a possible no win situation. We say it is a player's league, but we do not have to tell that to a fired coach.

Maybe it's just me. But I find it impossible to believe that Joe Tsai is financially stupid.

It's because it would look bad PR wise to fire him before his extension kicks in. Idk if you've been paying attention but the organization is heavily prioritizing good PR and "vibes" over actually winning.

He's definitely going to start next season as head coach. I'd be ecstatic to be wrong but the writing is on the wall.

[MrDollarBills]

lol i just saw that Nick Nurse is now available, and we're stick with Vaughn.

[ChuckS]

I do not understand the worry about JV's extension, and do not see it as an impediment to signing a new coach at any time.

I do not know the amount but suspect the cost is relatively minimal compared to player salaries or any other expense. They probably spend more on a three year rookie contract of someone who could not earn an extension. If not, they certainly have spent more on larger, longer term, contracts of those who have not earned them, or missed years for health reasons.

In the business world there is something called a "golden parachute". Businesses offer a financial guarantee to executives who might be untimely terminated. I doubt JV was in a position to demand such, but Marks and/or Tsai might have done what they did for putting a loyal, seven year contributor, in a possible no win situation. We say it is a player's league, but we do not have to tell that to a fired coach.

Maybe it's just me. But I find it impossible to believe that Joe Tsai is financially stupid.

It's because it would look bad PR wise to fire him before his extension kicks in. Idk if you've been paying attention but the organization is heavily prioritizing good PR and "vibes" over actually winning.

He's definitely going to start next season as head coach. I'd be ecstatic to be wrong but the writing is on the wall.

Good points!

I am aware of them prioritizing good PR and "vibes" and think that is good business, and human relationships. I'm less sure if it is being done at the expense of winning though. That seems antithetical to anything sports related.

I'm also somewhat unsure of the PR affect on firing him. It is so common in the league, and might be seen as mitigated by the fact that he is still being paid for however many years of the contract. Of course they could still keep him on in another capacity, but that is unusual.

There is a good chance you are also right about them keeping him to start next year. They would have to think hard about Nurse, though, and his preferences, in addition to their assessment of JV. I could be wrong, but I suspect Toronto might have made a decision on Udoka before the Nurse firing, so he might be out as another possibility.

I thought our guys played their hearts out last night, and were ultra competitive against what I think is superior talent. Nic in particular showed me something I did not think possible (at 215 pounds), against Embid. That of course speaks to the character of the players, but, I think, also much to the credit of a maligned coaching staff.

[Riconet]

FFS.

The Nets didn't lose last night because of coaching.

They lost because they were playing a legit title contender with a roster that was thrown together 20-odd games ago and that lacks size, plus they lost Clax on a pretty questionable T with 9 minutes left. They were up by 5 with 2 min and change left and then fell apart. All of their important guys missed very makeable shots.

Their roster is unbalanced and needs work. You can blame Marks for that if you like but there was no way he could put together a real team on the fly 2 months ago.

The real mistake Marks made was signing Kyrie 4 years ago. Marks and Tsai were 100% right not to give Kyrie the contract he wanted. Kyrie destroyed yet another team and I think Marks did pretty well in the Dallas and PHX trades.

Now Marks will need to figure out PF/C this summer and perhaps PG as well, as well as what to do with Simmons. But they have a lot of good assets now and I think Marks will make the right moves.

As for Dame, the only way I want him is if Simmons is going out in the deal -- which seems pretty unlikely.

[Eatgreenz]

There is a chance Vaughn could be moved into another position in the organzation. Give us a chance to get Nurse without firing him, if Marks and Tsai care about PR

[Eatgreenz]

FFS.

The Nets didn't lose last night because of coaching.

They lost because they were playing a legit title contender with a roster that was thrown together 20-odd games ago and that lacks size, plus they lost Clax on a pretty questionable T with 9 minutes left. They were up by 5 with 2 min and change left and then fell apart. All of their important guys missed very makeable shots.

Their roster is unbalanced and needs work. You can blame Marks for that if you like but there was no way he could put together a real team on the fly 2 months ago.

The real mistake Marks made was signing Kyrie 4 years ago. Marks and Tsai were 100% right not to give Kyrie the contract he wanted. Kyrie destroyed yet another team and I think Marks did pretty well in the Dallas and PHX trades.

Now Marks will need to figure out PF/C this summer and perhaps PG as well, as well as what to do with Simmons. But they have a lot of good assets now and I think Marks will make the right moves.

As for Dame, the only way I want him is if Simmons is going out in the deal -- which seems pretty unlikely.

Blazers could do Dame a solid if ask to be here and we just have to give up expiring maybe a young player like cam and like 2 picks. After all his done for them they could look out for him and we would help them taking on that contract.

[Marvin Martian]

The best case scenario for Dame is if POR buys out his contract and he comes here for free like Westbrook for LAC. Giving up significant assets at this stage of his career would be a mistake. Dame put himself in this situation, he needs to get himself out of it.

[Riconet]

The best case scenario for Dame is if POR buys out his contract and he comes here for free like Westbrook for LAC. Giving up significant assets at this stage of his career would be a mistake. Dame put himself in this situation, he needs to get himself out of it.

Respectfully, there is zero possibility of this happening.

[Shark]

I had my doubts about KD coming here before and I'll have my doubts about Dame wanting to come here. We really looked out of our depth this series and I don't know why Dame would come here when he's already with a young team that is pretty middle of the road despite some of the talent they have.

[3pt_chucker]

Hate to be that guy but not surprised this turned out to be mostly true. The Nets NEED to clean house if this franchise is to go forward and get better.

No one can watch this team and tell me it's well coached. IDGAF about the results. This is horrible basketball. All the assets on this team will be viewed as garbage or undervalued by seasons end.

[Phish Tank]

ok - so outside looking in, here's the scenario:

You have picks this year, 2025, and 2027 onwards. It's not a perfect scenario because of the swaps with the Rockets, but the draft capital you'll receive via PHX & Dallas (with some credit to the 76ers in between) should ease your pain.

At 21 & 22 this year, you don't have the greatest options to move up, but you may not necessarily want to keep both rooks on roster (especially if Jacque Vaughn's coaching).

With that said, here's the roster:

MUST KEEP:

1) Mikal: Duh
2) Nic Claxton: Keep (because he's cheap), BUT...... if you can upgrade........
3) Cam Thomas: duh
4) Dayron Sharpe: see what you have got in him
5) Sumner: same as above
6) Yuta
7) One of Royce or DFS

YOU'RE STUCK:

1) Ben Simmons: Trading him will be hard. He's negative value at this point. You can try to rehabilitate the value, but that was supposed to happen this year and it didn't. With his contract expiring in 2024, you won't get too many takers unless it involves giving up a lot of picks. However, those PHX picks aren't the ones they'll want. They'd want 2028-30 FRPs, which is dangerous territory if you're the Nets. I don't think there's the package for Lillard either.
2) Patty Mills: You'd probably want to keep him if Ben's around. Fortunately, he's expiring.

SIGN, BUT.....

1) Cam Johnson: You can probably get him at a similar value to what the Suns signed Mikal. That's fine. NOW..... if the Hawks are seriously considering trading Trae Young, you may want to bite the bullet and consider a S&T involving both Cams, some of those picks, and filler (as mentioned below)

TRADE, IF YOU CAN:

1) Dinwiddie: But make sure you do have a PG on the roster (not Ben Simmons)
2) One of Royce or DFS: Both are serviceable, but you also don't need both on your roster. Pick one and keep the other. You may get a late 1st from a good team, which you can repackage elsewhere.
3) Joe Harris: Big expiring, which it'll make hard to trade, but there's no point having him on the roster now with Bridges here. Maybe trade him to get a few smaller contracts. But he's a lower priority trade

DON'T SIGN:

1) Seth Curry: Good, but not worth expending resources to keep him.


Now keep in mind that you can't tank next year. But you're also not going to get a significant upgrade (unless you're lucky to swing Trae Young, but you're gonna be in a similar position as you are now). Is it worth it?

As for Vaughn, keep him for the tank.

[Tha King]

With the season now over (was really done after the KD trade), some thoughts:

- It may not seem like it but I think the team is in a better spot long term right now compared to this time last year. While any team with KD on it for the length of his contract is better off than this group he was never going to stay on for a rebuild/retool which was always going to be the end result once Simmons was placed onto the roster. That trade imo ended realistic contention because you need a strong roster around Durant that can carry wins in the RS without him. At least now you have some stability and framework to put together a competitive team until you can actually build a roster the one and only proven sustainable way (drafting your core).

- This offseason needs to be the one for Claxton. He's a good starter because of his defense but offensively he has yet to take that step and at some point potential gets put to the side and you are what you are. If the same type of player shows up to training camp then I think you look to trade him to a roster that just needs a good defensive center. Don't care if it's a jumper, more post ups, or plays off the dribble, he needs to be a key part of the offense.

- In terms of adding to the roster, trading for Dame, Beal, LaVine, etc. is not it because this team is levels below the best in the conference and those players are not at the point in their careers to be part of rebuilds. At least with Trae you could build out a roster for the long term. He'd probably be the one 'star' where trading picks for makes sense.

- Simmons. No one wants him on the roster but he's untradeable so you have to hope he can be a consistent contributor next season.

- If there ever was a draft to have two late firsts it's this one. It's a good draft but it's a unique one in that after the first few picks it's very flat. This draft is incredibly important for the immediate direction of the franchise and at 21 and 22 the chance will be there to draft two players with starter potential.

[Netaman]

lillard is the obvious move for something around simmons + cam + picks. as bad as simmons contract is, it has less risk than lillard. 4x45m is a lot of money for a guy entering his age 33 coming off his own injury issues in recent years.

nets can give portland 2-3-4 firsts on top of cam as a starter and simmons as a reclamation project to match $. that's not far off the gobert compensation (and he was 4 years younger with less injury risk).

it all just lines up too easily. portland has no use of lillard and i dont see a destination he'd more prefer to go to with a better offer than that, and they send him out of conference to the team who gifted them the pick to take him in the first place in the gerald wallace trade (thanks billy). it's so poetic he's already scouting the new squad.

the rest of the offseason fits in easily around that - extend cam j, put dinwiddie in more of a 6th man/super sub role since lillard will probably get a lot of load managing, find another legit big man behind claxton (could even be nurkic as part of the lillard conversations).

there's actually a decent number of options in FA if they can use that TE for a S&T with a pick. Lopez, Wood, Poetl, Plumlee, Vucevic, Reid, etc.

Lillard - Dinwiddie
O'neale - Harris/Patty
Cam - Yuta (?)
Bridges - dfs
Claxton - s&t backup big man with $18.1 million trade exception

[Netaman]

another way to look at it, i have no idea what dame wants, but let's start with an assumption that lillard tells portland he wants to go to brooklyn. again i have no idea what dame wants, but that's the thing that will ignite any trade possibility. without that he's definitely not coming here.

so if it starts with that and the nets offer all the picks they got for KD + cam thomas, that's a viable deal. adding claxton to that deal would arguably make it an equivalent deal to the full KD since he's so much younger than bridges. i think he's comparable in value to pre-trade bridges. i dont think the nets will trade claxton or that lillard will bring back the KD return, just making the point of how close the parameters are IF dame wants to come here. that is the only if that matters.

the nets also have a lot of salary combinations to get it done beyond the cam + picks part too. dinwiddie + harris is all expiring $ and they may even be able to flip both for more picks at deadline. or they can roll dice on simmons, which imo makes more sense for a rebuilding team since he has bigger upside. if he rebuilds his value like andrew wiggins did you can get a lot more picks or decide whether or not he's a piece of the future. or they can expand it to send dfs or oneale to a 3rd team who then sends another pick to portland.

but again all goes back to what dame wants, and the extent to which portland is willing to accommodate him. all the KD picks + cam is a good foundation for both sides to start with.

[Papi_swav]

bro I am not giving up no 4 picks for Dame, what is with u guys? Haven't ya learned anything yet? If anything we should get a pick or 2 back, his contract is ridiculous and he's almost old now smh

anyways, this was the season we probably should of tanked. The draft is pretty loaded with talent and we don't have our pick next year so we probably could of got a nice pick around #8-12 or so but too late at this point. Now we're stuck with 2 picks at like 21 and 22 smh

[GTR11]

bro I am not giving up no 4 picks for Dame, what is with u guys? Haven't ya learned anything yet? If anything we should get a pick or 2 back, his contract is ridiculous and he's almost old now smh

anyways, this was the season we probably should of tanked. The draft is pretty loaded with talent and we don't have our pick next year so we probably could of got a nice pick around #8-12 or so but too late at this point. Now we're stuck with 2 picks at like 21 and 22 smh

He was at the games in BK and spends time in NY. If Portland does right by him and takes Ben, CamT with one of the picks from this year. Than yes I won't mind Dame's toxic contract in here.

You right though. Dude showing all signs of being washed up. That contract won't age well.

The fact that Bridges ain't max allows us to go after another max.

[NetsWorld]

bro I am not giving up no 4 picks for Dame, what is with u guys? Haven't ya learned anything yet? If anything we should get a pick or 2 back, his contract is ridiculous and he's almost old now smh

anyways, this was the season we probably should of tanked. The draft is pretty loaded with talent and we don't have our pick next year so we probably could of got a nice pick around #8-12 or so but too late at this point. Now we're stuck with 2 picks at like 21 and 22 smh

He was at the games in BK and spends time in NY. If Portland does right by him and takes Ben, CamT with one of the picks from this year. Than yes I won't mind Dame's toxic contract in here.

You right though. Dude showing all signs of being washed up. That contract won't age well.

The fact that Bridges ain't max allows us to go after another max.

Dame is A target but not THE target for Brooklyn. I have a funny feeling Nets are looking at either one of Luka/Jaylen Brown moving forward. Bridges will be the third '"star" so to speak. They are looking for another big three in Brooklyn. The press conference all but confirmed what the Nets intentions are. I see the Nets going the Suns route of a similar combo to Booker/CP3. Dame would be the CP3 and Brown would be your Booker. I still want Udoka coaching.