Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

[3pt_chucker]

'i just think we need some time to redvelop the culture and cultivate young talent.

This constant need to move from on star to the next is toxic.

I would way rather work on getting Simmons back to an all star level player, develop Bridges/Claxton/Cam J. And draft some young guys and give them real playing time.

Trading for Dame puts immediate Championship expectations back on this team. And forces us to once again morgtage our short term future.

Granted Dame is 100x the locker room guy KD/Kyrie/Harden are. But hes also never been able to be good enough to breakthrough.

And its generally very hard to win with a small PG as your best player. Outside of Curry.

"Redevelop the culture" is BS GM speak when they want to solidify their jobs security from fans and media. It's means very little in actual basketball terms and winning.

It's fine to grow organically but the history of the NBA has shown over and over again, you need legit star players to contend (not just make the playoffs) and usually a superstar to win the whole thing.

There are 3 ways to acquire one of those guys: draft, FA, trade. Drafts are the most volatile unless you get a top 3 pick, which the Nets won't have for many years to come. FA is not an option for another couple seasons at least. Trade is the best option currently and should definitely be explored and not dismissed.

You say "mortgage our short term future" but what would the Nets be mortgaging exactly? They do not have a blue chip prospect under 25, they don't have full control over their own pick until 2028 draft, so at best they will be dumpster diving at the back end of drafts and/or hoping that the Suns and Philly massively implode. The Nets best players (Bridges and Johnson) are already at their beginning of their peak (late 20s), so either trade them and push the timeline back or build around them to maximize their window assuming you believe they are franchise building points. There is no sense waiting till they are in their 30s, hoping a late 1st rounder becomes a superstar to push the team over the edge.

Lastly, I actually agree that small guards as the #1 limits what you can do in team building and reduces your margin for error on both ends of the floor(personnel and scheme). I just disagree with the strawman that trading for Dame = nothing else can be done after to build around him narrative that's being repeated over and over. Marks has to be thinking multiple moves ahead and not a one move to fix all type of thing. Dame would be an excellent start IMO, considering the main realistic alternatives (ex: Trae, KAT)

I have news for you.

A 32 year old Lillard, who is injury prone, due to make 60 million at age 36 is not a "legit star."

He literally couldn't even get his team to the play in round. Nor has he even come close to seriously contending for a Championship.

If we could get Giannis or Jokic I would be seriously listening.

This is just a waste of time, and mindless star chasing for further medicority.

The Nets would be giving up picks that could turn into star players. Especially with the Suns/Mavs looking like they might collapse in the next few years.

The future is giving up the chance to draft a star ourselves since we have no picks. Or save those assets later so we could get a guy like Luka, Giannis, Embiid etc.

The Suns/Mavs could easily collapse and hand us a top 5 pick. Luka is already looking like he might ask out. CP3/KD are on their last legs.

Giving it all up for Lillard makes no sense. Sorry.

Bridges/Johnson are not young. But they have a few more years in their 20s before we can look to build a contender. And worst case we just trade them for a ton of assets.

I'm not basing my entire franchise of Bridges timeline. As much as I like him. Hes not a franchise guy.

Once we trade for Dame, assets will be diminished and we won't be able to get another high level star. Or draft one.

Dame Lillard is not a star? By what metric?

I keep going in circles but this is the last time I'll say that trading for Dame = no more future assets, is not reality. That's a huge strawman considering that the Nets have 7 tradeable picks and players they can use in trades.

So basically hope other teams fail, without having control of your own picks until 2028. Sorry but Nets need to be more proactive than that.

What star is the Nets drafting with their current picks?

If Dallas keeps Luka till he's a FA (which is very likely), Mavs picks will be meh.
Suns have Booker in his prime and Ayton while underwhelming is an asset, odds are that they will be fine for at least 2-3 more seasons.

The best and most likely avenue for the Nets to get a star is by trading for one whether you like it or not.

[3pt_chucker]

OT but people here have been holding their nose at Jimmy Butler... lmaooo

I'd do anything to pair Dame, Jimmy and Bridges. Too bad that's aint ever going to happen.

[TheNetsFan]

That’s the neighborhood of what I would be willing to do.

Simmons and Nurkic inclusions are a no go in my opinion. I don't think it's even legal salary wise and will have the Nets flirting with the second apron for years. Simmons, Thomas and 3 FRPs is more likely.

Full stop.

Zero interest in another tiny chucker.

If this is the proposed deal POR will look elsewhere.

Go for it. I am not a big fan of pursuing Lillard, and I also think the return he fetches will not be all that great. His contract, age and recent durability are an ugly combination. The harsher second tax apron implications also make carrying his contract less appealing to teams.

[Tha King]

OT but people here have been holding their nose at Jimmy Butler... lmaooo

I'd do anything to pair Dame, Jimmy and Bridges. Too bad that's aint ever going to happen.

it's actually not OT lol because it puts our roster in perspective. You're right about Butler, he's a top 10 player and a different level in the playoffs. Yet the Heat were a play-in team - that's how tough the conference is right now. I am not sure adding a star player to this roster makes this group unquestionably better than the Heat in a playoff series.

I think even if you successfully add a star to this core group, it could still be a play-in or worse type of team (see Bulls, Hawks, Wizards which all have one or more AS players).

[Hello Brooklyn]

"Redevelop the culture" is BS GM speak when they want to solidify their jobs security from fans and media. It's means very little in actual basketball terms and winning.

It's fine to grow organically but the history of the NBA has shown over and over again, you need legit star players to contend (not just make the playoffs) and usually a superstar to win the whole thing.

There are 3 ways to acquire one of those guys: draft, FA, trade. Drafts are the most volatile unless you get a top 3 pick, which the Nets won't have for many years to come. FA is not an option for another couple seasons at least. Trade is the best option currently and should definitely be explored and not dismissed.

You say "mortgage our short term future" but what would the Nets be mortgaging exactly? They do not have a blue chip prospect under 25, they don't have full control over their own pick until 2028 draft, so at best they will be dumpster diving at the back end of drafts and/or hoping that the Suns and Philly massively implode. The Nets best players (Bridges and Johnson) are already at their beginning of their peak (late 20s), so either trade them and push the timeline back or build around them to maximize their window assuming you believe they are franchise building points. There is no sense waiting till they are in their 30s, hoping a late 1st rounder becomes a superstar to push the team over the edge.

Lastly, I actually agree that small guards as the #1 limits what you can do in team building and reduces your margin for error on both ends of the floor(personnel and scheme). I just disagree with the strawman that trading for Dame = nothing else can be done after to build around him narrative that's being repeated over and over. Marks has to be thinking multiple moves ahead and not a one move to fix all type of thing. Dame would be an excellent start IMO, considering the main realistic alternatives (ex: Trae, KAT)

I have news for you.

A 32 year old Lillard, who is injury prone, due to make 60 million at age 36 is not a "legit star."

He literally couldn't even get his team to the play in round. Nor has he even come close to seriously contending for a Championship.

If we could get Giannis or Jokic I would be seriously listening.

This is just a waste of time, and mindless star chasing for further medicority.

The Nets would be giving up picks that could turn into star players. Especially with the Suns/Mavs looking like they might collapse in the next few years.

The future is giving up the chance to draft a star ourselves since we have no picks. Or save those assets later so we could get a guy like Luka, Giannis, Embiid etc.

The Suns/Mavs could easily collapse and hand us a top 5 pick. Luka is already looking like he might ask out. CP3/KD are on their last legs.

Giving it all up for Lillard makes no sense. Sorry.

Bridges/Johnson are not young. But they have a few more years in their 20s before we can look to build a contender. And worst case we just trade them for a ton of assets.

I'm not basing my entire franchise of Bridges timeline. As much as I like him. Hes not a franchise guy.

Once we trade for Dame, assets will be diminished and we won't be able to get another high level star. Or draft one.

Dame Lillard is not a star? By what metric?

I keep going in circles but this is the last time I'll say that trading for Dame = no more future assets, is not reality. That's a huge strawman considering that the Nets have 7 tradeable picks and players they can use in trades.

So basically hope other teams fail, without having control of your own picks until 2028. Sorry but Nets need to be more proactive than that.

What star is the Nets drafting with their current picks?

If Dallas keeps Luka till he's a FA (which is very likely), Mavs picks will be meh.
Suns have Booker in his prime and Ayton while underwhelming is an asset, odds are that they will be fine for at least 2-3 more seasons.

The best and most likely avenue for the Nets to get a star is by trading for one whether you like it or not.

Hes not the type of star that can be the best player on a Championship team. And hes 32 and has a ridicolous contract.

60 million at age 36!!!!!

Luka could demand a trade after next season. Booker could easily demand out too. Nor is he good enough to keep the Suns in contention if the rest of the team sucks.

Trading for a star is idiotic if were not true contenders. Which we will not be with Lillard.

[Colbinii]

Would you trade #21 + #22 for #17 + #47?

[TheNetsFan]

Would you trade #21 + #22 for #17 + #47?

That's a during the draft depending who is still on the board question. I think #21+22 can get you slightly higher, but not much. Maybe #15-16.

That being said, 2 picks in the same draft is the least efficient way of moving up. Trading a player, a future pick or taking back a salary dump is much more effective.

[Riconet]

OT but people here have been holding their nose at Jimmy Butler... lmaooo

I'd do anything to pair Dame, Jimmy and Bridges. Too bad that's aint ever going to happen.

Butler was a UFA and signed with Miami (via sign-and-trade) in the summer of 2019 -- the same summer that the Nets signed KD and the bozo.

I wanted Butler soooooooo bad that summer. I was happy the Nets got KD, and regretful that he came as a package with the bozo, but overall was excited about it.

In retrospect, signing Butler and keeping some powder dry for the next non-psycho star who came available would've been a much better move.

Sliding doors...

[GTR11]

I just think while Simmons is on the roster as a max player it's going to be very difficult to maneuver through that and put together a cohesive team. Just taking up too much of the roster. If he regains some form that changes the calculus.

If you go the route of just getting the picks back and rebuilding properly, you could then trade CJ, DFS, O'Neale and Din for more picks. That's possibly at least three more firsts plus whatever extra you get from the Rockets for Bridges. I'd rather go that route then try to add to a current group that is less talented than play-in teams in the conference.

Use the next two years while Simmons is on the roster to develop whatever is left on the roster and go into 2025 FA with probably the most picks in the entire league and ample cap space.

As of right now we got several beat up heads talking about we can get 10th ( Mavs if they get to keep their pick, only top 10 protected ) or 11 pick ( CamJ to Orlando in S&T ).

Mavs want Nic more than DFS. But they exploring to expend it. 3 way team trade being discussed apparently where Dame in BK, DFS / Nic in Dallas and Portland ends up with Ben, Bertans and 10th pick.

With Dame showing up in BK things picked up steam. Me personally, I'd hate it with passion.

We also being linked to Trae and Jimmy now. Both Miami and ATL looking to unload their cap and get assets along. Of course it'll be done on our expense.

[MrDollarBills]

Would you trade #21 + #22 for #17 + #47?

Hell yeah.

[MrDollarBills]

I would sign up for Dame, Butler, and Bridges right now. That's way better than what we will be marching out their this fall on paper as it stands

[TheNetsFan]

I just think while Simmons is on the roster as a max player it's going to be very difficult to maneuver through that and put together a cohesive team. Just taking up too much of the roster. If he regains some form that changes the calculus.

If you go the route of just getting the picks back and rebuilding properly, you could then trade CJ, DFS, O'Neale and Din for more picks. That's possibly at least three more firsts plus whatever extra you get from the Rockets for Bridges. I'd rather go that route then try to add to a current group that is less talented than play-in teams in the conference.

Use the next two years while Simmons is on the roster to develop whatever is left on the roster and go into 2025 FA with probably the most picks in the entire league and ample cap space.

As of right now we got several beat up heads talking about we can get 10th ( Mavs if they get to keep their pick, only top 10 protected ) or 11 pick ( CamJ to Orlando in S&T ).

Mavs want Nic more than DFS. But they exploring to expend it. 3 way team trade being discussed apparently where Dame in BK, DFS / Nic in Dallas and Portland ends up with Ben, Bertans and 10th pick.

With Dame showing up in BK things picked up steam. Me personally, I'd hate it with passion.

We also being linked to Trae and Jimmy now. Both Miami and ATL looking to unload their cap and get assets along. Of course it'll be done on our expense.

Where are you seeing this stuff? Anybody credible?

[Riconet]

There is NFW that Miami trades Butler this summer.

[GTR11]

I just think while Simmons is on the roster as a max player it's going to be very difficult to maneuver through that and put together a cohesive team. Just taking up too much of the roster. If he regains some form that changes the calculus.

If you go the route of just getting the picks back and rebuilding properly, you could then trade CJ, DFS, O'Neale and Din for more picks. That's possibly at least three more firsts plus whatever extra you get from the Rockets for Bridges. I'd rather go that route then try to add to a current group that is less talented than play-in teams in the conference.

Use the next two years while Simmons is on the roster to develop whatever is left on the roster and go into 2025 FA with probably the most picks in the entire league and ample cap space.

As of right now we got several beat up heads talking about we can get 10th ( Mavs if they get to keep their pick, only top 10 protected ) or 11 pick ( CamJ to Orlando in S&T ).

Mavs want Nic more than DFS. But they exploring to expend it. 3 way team trade being discussed apparently where Dame in BK, DFS / Nic in Dallas and Portland ends up with Ben, Bertans and 10th pick.

With Dame showing up in BK things picked up steam. Me personally, I'd hate it with passion.

We also being linked to Trae and Jimmy now. Both Miami and ATL looking to unload their cap and get assets along. Of course it'll be done on our expense.

Where are you seeing this stuff? Anybody credible?

In my world, only Ian, Woj and Shams worth being called credible. Rest of them just another Scoop B that being used or coming out with some speculative rumors.

Seen it from some Magic and Mavs beats and podcasters on Twitter. It's out there look it up. I don't want them to get any attention. That's how they get high on themselves while talking they got sources. I even stopped posting Brian Lewis reports due to him deleting his tweets at times.

Last offseason build some bad blood with those wanna be's. I need time to cool off.

[Marvin Martian]

There is NFW that Miami trades Butler this summer.

Crazy how his move to MIA panned out. Pundits thought he was wasting his prime and that MIA would go no where and yet he is having more playoff success than everyone else in that FA class.

[Papi_swav]

OT but people here have been holding their nose at Jimmy Butler... lmaooo

I'd do anything to pair Dame, Jimmy and Bridges. Too bad that's aint ever going to happen.

Butler was a UFA and signed with Miami (via sign-and-trade) in the summer of 2019 -- the same summer that the Nets signed KD and the bozo.

I wanted Butler soooooooo bad that summer. I was happy the Nets got KD, and regretful that he came as a package with the bozo, but overall was excited about it.

In retrospect, signing Butler and keeping some powder dry for the next non-psycho star who came available would've been a much better move.

Sliding doors...

KD and Butler would of been insane !!! I think that would of kept Harden here had we made that trade and we probably would of won with that squad no doubt. Kyrie crippled us smh

[TheNetsFan]

As of right now we got several beat up heads talking about we can get 10th ( Mavs if they get to keep their pick, only top 10 protected ) or 11 pick ( CamJ to Orlando in S&T ).

Mavs want Nic more than DFS. But they exploring to expend it. 3 way team trade being discussed apparently where Dame in BK, DFS / Nic in Dallas and Portland ends up with Ben, Bertans and 10th pick.

With Dame showing up in BK things picked up steam. Me personally, I'd hate it with passion.

We also being linked to Trae and Jimmy now. Both Miami and ATL looking to unload their cap and get assets along. Of course it'll be done on our expense.

Where are you seeing this stuff? Anybody credible?

In my world, only Ian, Woj and Shams worth being called credible. Rest of them just another Scoop B that being used or coming out with some speculative rumors.

Seen it from some Magic and Mavs beats and podcasters on Twitter. It's out there look it up. I don't want them to get any attention. That's how they get high on themselves while talking they got sources. I even stopped posting Brian Lewis reports due to him deleting his tweets at times.

Last offseason build some bad blood with those wanna be's. I need time to cool off.

I found an article carried locally in Dallas & on SI (same exact article & writer). The worst part is that the writer states that DFS needs to be traded to another team first & then can be traded to Dallas, which is untrue. He can't be traded back to Dallas in the same league year. July 1st it's legal, so in theory the draft rights to the player drafted at #10 could be traded in a DFS deal. I think #21 or #22 plus DFS for #10 (assuming nobody jumps Dallas & that pick goes to NYK) makes some sense, though I think we're going big game hunting & I can envision a world where that #10 goes to Portland for Dame.

[Riconet]

KD and Butler would of been insane !!! I think that would of kept Harden here had we made that trade and we probably would of won with that squad no doubt. Kyrie crippled us smh

That would've been the best pair of stars in the NBA IMHO. 2 guys who just wanna hoop and are great on both ends and great at all the little things. And Jimmy is the leader so KD doesn't have to be, which is what KD prefers.

They probably wouldn't have traded for Harden because they wouldn't have needed him -- plus Jimmy wouldn't have wanted a guy who couldn't be bothered to stay in shape.

But KD was smitten with the bozo, and was determined to go with him, and here we are.

[MrDollarBills]

OT but people here have been holding their nose at Jimmy Butler... lmaooo

I'd do anything to pair Dame, Jimmy and Bridges. Too bad that's aint ever going to happen.

Butler was a UFA and signed with Miami (via sign-and-trade) in the summer of 2019 -- the same summer that the Nets signed KD and the bozo.

I wanted Butler soooooooo bad that summer. I was happy the Nets got KD, and regretful that he came as a package with the bozo, but overall was excited about it.

In retrospect, signing Butler and keeping some powder dry for the next non-psycho star who came available would've been a much better move.

Sliding doors...

KD and Butler would of been insane !!! I think that would of kept Harden here had we made that trade and we probably would of won with that squad no doubt. Kyrie crippled us smh

We would have won at least two championships if we had KD + Butler.

Honestly KD is lame af for enabling Kyrie.

[MrDollarBills]

KD and Butler would of been insane !!! I think that would of kept Harden here had we made that trade and we probably would of won with that squad no doubt. Kyrie crippled us smh

That would've been the best pair of stars in the NBA IMHO. 2 guys who just wanna hoop and are great on both ends and great at all the little things. And Jimmy is the leader so KD doesn't have to be, which is what KD prefers.

They probably wouldn't have traded for Harden because they wouldn't have needed him -- plus Jimmy wouldn't have wanted a guy who couldn't be bothered to stay in shape.

But KD was smitten with the bozo, and was determined to go with him, and here we are.

Right, Jimmy is hyper competitive. He would have told kyrie to f*ck himself so fast. Meanwhile, KD was there like "waah i can't tell another grown man what to do". Yes you f*cking can. Durant is a coward.