2022-23 RealGM All-Season Awards - Discussion Thread

[70sFan]

What's your thought on DPOY right now?

Totally up in the air. My 3 top regular season guys - Brook, Mobley, JJJ - all look poised to be upset in the first round.

JJJ might exit in the first round but I'd argue he's elevated from his regular season play. If he was dpoy-worthy playing 29mpg, keeping that up for 37mpg(in addition to whatever per-possession "impact" comes from not fouling) shouldn't really hurt his case.

Brook and Mobley have had their weaknesses exploited(with Lopez really struggling without Giannis's coverage as many might have predicted), but I think JJJ's made his argument stronger if anything(though maybe mpg should have played a bigger factor in how we evaluated his regular season?)

Think these playoffs have reinforced the idea that "stay-at-home" rim protection isn't all that viable for anchoring resilient playoff defense. Mobly and Brook probably fit what people "think" Gobert is/was and the results have been brutal

About JJJ - I definitely agree, his team struggles but it has nothing to do with Jackson play. He's been extremely good defensively and he's unfortunate that Davis happened to outshine him h2h.

About Lopez - strongly disagree, Lopez has been very good in the series so far. He was absurdly dominant defensively last night and Butler explosion had nothing to do with his drop defense.

[OhayoKD]

Totally up in the air. My 3 top regular season guys - Brook, Mobley, JJJ - all look poised to be upset in the first round.

JJJ might exit in the first round but I'd argue he's elevated from his regular season play. If he was dpoy-worthy playing 29mpg, keeping that up for 37mpg(in addition to whatever per-possession "impact" comes from not fouling) shouldn't really hurt his case.

Brook and Mobley have had their weaknesses exploited(with Lopez really struggling without Giannis's coverage as many might have predicted), but I think JJJ's made his argument stronger if anything(though maybe mpg should have played a bigger factor in how we evaluated his regular season?)

Think these playoffs have reinforced the idea that "stay-at-home" rim protection isn't all that viable for anchoring resilient playoff defense. Mobly and Brook probably fit what people "think" Gobert is/was and the results have been brutal

About JJJ - I definitely agree, his team struggles but it has nothing to do with Jackson play. He's been extremely good defensively and he's unfortunate that Davis happened to outshine him h2h.

About Lopez - strongly disagree, Lopez has been very good in the series so far. He was absurdly dominant defensively last night and Butler explosion had nothing to do with his drop defense.

I think JJJ outplayed Davis yesterday.

I specifically criticized brooks play without Giannis. Brooks looked dominant again with Giannis covering(and looked great offensively with running pnr with Giannis posting a kg+ playmaking performance), but the heat were feasting without that all-time help

[Colbinii]

What's your thought on DPOY right now?

I think AD has been by far the best defender this postseason so far, and outside of missing games he was probably a top 5 defender in the RS as well

I dont see AD as being bar far better defensively than JJJ. JJJ has been amazing in the Lakers series and doesn't have the benefit of having the ultimate QB in LeBron next to him.

[70sFan]

JJJ might exit in the first round but I'd argue he's elevated from his regular season play. If he was dpoy-worthy playing 29mpg, keeping that up for 37mpg(in addition to whatever per-possession "impact" comes from not fouling) shouldn't really hurt his case.

Brook and Mobley have had their weaknesses exploited(with Lopez really struggling without Giannis's coverage as many might have predicted), but I think JJJ's made his argument stronger if anything(though maybe mpg should have played a bigger factor in how we evaluated his regular season?)

Think these playoffs have reinforced the idea that "stay-at-home" rim protection isn't all that viable for anchoring resilient playoff defense. Mobly and Brook probably fit what people "think" Gobert is/was and the results have been brutal

About JJJ - I definitely agree, his team struggles but it has nothing to do with Jackson play. He's been extremely good defensively and he's unfortunate that Davis happened to outshine him h2h.

About Lopez - strongly disagree, Lopez has been very good in the series so far. He was absurdly dominant defensively last night and Butler explosion had nothing to do with his drop defense.

I think JJJ outplayed Davis yesterday.

I specifically criticized brooks play without Giannis. Brooks looked dominant again with Giannis covering(and looked great offensively with running pnr with Giannis posting a kg+ playmaking performance), but the heat were feasting without that all-time help

Except that Brook looked good in game 2 (didn't watch game 3) as well and Giannis didn't play.

[OhayoKD]

What's your thought on DPOY right now?

I think AD has been by far the best defender this postseason so far, and outside of missing games he was probably a top 5 defender in the RS as well

I dont see AD as being bar far better defensively than JJJ. JJJ has been amazing in the Lakers series and doesn't have the benefit of having the ultimate QB in LeBron next to him.

Honestly am wondering if it should be taken for granted that someone of ad/kg/giannis's physical profile is destined to be better than a jjj/draymond

[MyUniBroDavis]

What's your thought on DPOY right now?

I think AD has been by far the best defender this postseason so far, and outside of missing games he was probably a top 5 defender in the RS as well

I dont see AD as being bar far better defensively than JJJ. JJJ has been amazing in the Lakers series and doesn't have the benefit of having the ultimate QB in LeBron next to him.

Wait during this series? Or in general? ADs defense especially game 1-3 has been ridiculous, I think game 4 theres an argument, might lean JJJ actually (with the caveat that AD had a pretty pedestrian defensive third Q after hurting his hip for a bit and came back really strong afterwards) , but games 1-3 it hasn’t been a comparison at all

I don’t see how JJJ has had a comparable defensive series to AD at all. I also wouldn’t say bron has taking charge of the defense or anything so far AD has been about as vocal as he is the past year

Last game was by far ADs worst game defensively and he was still incredible. He’s basically been Rudy+ In the paint, been able to switch on guys (although they haven’t been switching much) and run them off the line

JJJ hasn’t been bad defensively he’s been amazing of course, but games 1-3 AD basically became a switchy Gobert lol, memphis basically couldn’t score when he was on the court inside the arc iirc. JJJ was great but it wasn’t even a question who the best defender on the court was

JJJ has been great on switches when they’ve happened and been a great interior presence. But they’ve also had some really good defenders slowing guys down, and the help that Tillman and konchar have provided have been insane

AD’s been ridiculously active in the passing lanes and rotating to draw charges, and is averaging 5 blocks and 2 steals a game nearly, and that doesn’t really oversell how impactful he’s been. He alone has basically had the same presence in the interior as the entire memphis defense lol. I wouldn’t say brons been directing him where to go either, ADs positioning in general has been a lot better this year regardless of when brons healthy or not vs other years

The grizzlies are shooting 46.5% inside the arc (51.6% is worst in the league) with AD on the court right now,

[Bidofo]

Mobley has been absolutely fantastic defensively vs the Knicks in all aspects except one: defensive rebounding. He along with Allen are getting bullied there. Knicks ORB% is at a whopping 34% lol

[70sFan]

I think AD has been by far the best defender this postseason so far, and outside of missing games he was probably a top 5 defender in the RS as well

I dont see AD as being bar far better defensively than JJJ. JJJ has been amazing in the Lakers series and doesn't have the benefit of having the ultimate QB in LeBron next to him.

Honestly am wondering if it should be taken for granted that someone of ad/kg/giannis's physical profile is destined to be better than a jjj/draymond

I don't think it should, every great player is unique in some way and I wouldn't say there is one way to be successful at the highest level.

[70sFan]

I think AD has been by far the best defender this postseason so far, and outside of missing games he was probably a top 5 defender in the RS as well

I dont see AD as being bar far better defensively than JJJ. JJJ has been amazing in the Lakers series and doesn't have the benefit of having the ultimate QB in LeBron next to him.

Wait during this series? Or in general? ADs defense especially game 1-3 has been ridiculous, I think game 4 theres an argument, might lean JJJ actually, but games 1-3 it hasn’t been a comparison at all

I don’t see how JJJ has had a comparable defensive series to AD at all. I also wouldn’t say bron has taking charge of the defense or anything so far AD has been about as vocal as he is the past year

Last game was by far ADs worst game defensively and he was still incredible.

JJJ hasn’t been bad defensively he’s been amazing of course, but games 1-3 AD basically became a switchy Gobert lol, memphis basically couldn’t score when he was on the court inside the arc iirc. JJJ was great but it wasn’t even a question who the best defender on the court was

JJJ has been great on switches when they’ve happened and been a great interior presence. But they’ve also had some really good defenders slowing guys down, and the help that Tillman and konchar have provided have been insane

AD’s been ridiculously active in the passing lanes and rotating to draw charges, and is averaging 5 blocks and 2 steals a game nearly, and that doesn’t really oversell how impactful he’s been. He alone has basically had the same presence in the interior as the entire memphis defense lol. I wouldn’t say brons been directing him where to go either, ADs positioning in general has been a lot better this year regardless of when brons healthy or not vs other years

I think game 1 is very close between JJJ and Davis (yes, both were that amazing). I'd give Davis the edge for the series though.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I dont see AD as being bar far better defensively than JJJ. JJJ has been amazing in the Lakers series and doesn't have the benefit of having the ultimate QB in LeBron next to him.

Wait during this series? Or in general? ADs defense especially game 1-3 has been ridiculous, I think game 4 theres an argument, might lean JJJ actually, but games 1-3 it hasn’t been a comparison at all

I don’t see how JJJ has had a comparable defensive series to AD at all. I also wouldn’t say bron has taking charge of the defense or anything so far AD has been about as vocal as he is the past year

Last game was by far ADs worst game defensively and he was still incredible.

JJJ hasn’t been bad defensively he’s been amazing of course, but games 1-3 AD basically became a switchy Gobert lol, memphis basically couldn’t score when he was on the court inside the arc iirc. JJJ was great but it wasn’t even a question who the best defender on the court was

JJJ has been great on switches when they’ve happened and been a great interior presence. But they’ve also had some really good defenders slowing guys down, and the help that Tillman and konchar have provided have been insane

AD’s been ridiculously active in the passing lanes and rotating to draw charges, and is averaging 5 blocks and 2 steals a game nearly, and that doesn’t really oversell how impactful he’s been. He alone has basically had the same presence in the interior as the entire memphis defense lol. I wouldn’t say brons been directing him where to go either, ADs positioning in general has been a lot better this year regardless of when brons healthy or not vs other years

I think game 1 is very close between JJJ and Davis (yes, both were that amazing). I'd give Davis the edge for the series though.

Oh J would for sure disagree Game 1 was close personally, that was the game where they basically couldn’t score in the paint at all, and where he was blocking shots and retaining possession almost every time. I think there were at least 8-9 shots he stuffed or completely forced the miss and got the ball back from

I don’t think it’s a knock on JJJ, I do think he’s the DPOY. But I mean, AD on defense that game was unplayable lol. Are you sure ur not mixing up games? Don’t remember JJJ being particularly insane on defense in game 1

If you mean game 4 I agree with you

One thing I’d say is I feel memphis do kind of have a hell house with their defense, Tillman has been ridiculous and has been able to check both AD and Bron so far (other than when bron just decided to start driving out of control vs bully ball, and Tbf ADs touch has been horrible so far), and konchar became an absurd shot blocker that one game lol

Whereas with the Lakers, in terms of rim protection it really is just AD lol. Brons been more off transition or when a guy goes at him, Vando and Rui have done well but the share of the impact hasn’t really been close

In the context of the current era, 5 blocks and 2 steals a game is crazy and I don’t think it oversells how good he’s been defensively.

[70sFan]

Wait during this series? Or in general? ADs defense especially game 1-3 has been ridiculous, I think game 4 theres an argument, might lean JJJ actually, but games 1-3 it hasn’t been a comparison at all

I don’t see how JJJ has had a comparable defensive series to AD at all. I also wouldn’t say bron has taking charge of the defense or anything so far AD has been about as vocal as he is the past year

Last game was by far ADs worst game defensively and he was still incredible.

JJJ hasn’t been bad defensively he’s been amazing of course, but games 1-3 AD basically became a switchy Gobert lol, memphis basically couldn’t score when he was on the court inside the arc iirc. JJJ was great but it wasn’t even a question who the best defender on the court was

JJJ has been great on switches when they’ve happened and been a great interior presence. But they’ve also had some really good defenders slowing guys down, and the help that Tillman and konchar have provided have been insane

AD’s been ridiculously active in the passing lanes and rotating to draw charges, and is averaging 5 blocks and 2 steals a game nearly, and that doesn’t really oversell how impactful he’s been. He alone has basically had the same presence in the interior as the entire memphis defense lol. I wouldn’t say brons been directing him where to go either, ADs positioning in general has been a lot better this year regardless of when brons healthy or not vs other years

I think game 1 is very close between JJJ and Davis (yes, both were that amazing). I'd give Davis the edge for the series though.

Oh J would for sure disagree Game 1 was close personally, that was the game where they basically couldn’t score in the paint at all, and where he was blocking shots and retaining possession almost every time. I think there were at least 8-9 shots he stuffed or completely forced the miss and got the ball back from

I don’t think it’s a knock on JJJ, I do think he’s the DPOY. But I mean, AD on defense that game was unplayable lol. Are you sure ur not mixing up games? Don’t remember JJJ being particularly insane on defense in game 1

If you mean game 4 I agree with you

One thing I’d say is I feel memphis do kind of have a hell house with their defense, Tillman has been ridiculous and has been able to check both AD and Bron so far (other than when bron just decided to start driving out of control vs bully ball, and Tbf ADs touch has been horrible so far), and konchar became an absurd shot blocker that one game lol

Whereas with the Lakers, in terms of rim protection it really is just AD lol. Brons been more off transition or when a guy goes at him, Vando and Rui have done well but the share of the impact hasn’t really been close

In the context of the current era, 5 blocks and 2 steals a game is crazy and I don’t think it oversells how good he’s been defensively.

Strong disagree on JJJ not being insane in game 1. Davis was also absurd and had more eye catching plays, but both were incredible,

[Texas Chuck]

I don't know if I kneejerk enough. My ballot is likely to be very different based on some of the comments after each individual game lol. And its not that I don't recognize how important each playoff game is. I very much do. But one game should not overrule the entire 82 and the previous playoff games(nor the ones yet to be played for those who continue on).

[70sFan]

I don't know if I kneejerk enough. My ballot is likely to be very different based on some of the comments after each individual game lol. And its not that I don't recognize how important each playoff game is. I very much do. But one game should not overrule the entire 82 and the previous playoff games(nor the ones yet to be played for those who continue on).

I'm interested in your opinion about DPOY.

[Texas Chuck]

I don't know if I kneejerk enough. My ballot is likely to be very different based on some of the comments after each individual game lol. And its not that I don't recognize how important each playoff game is. I very much do. But one game should not overrule the entire 82 and the previous playoff games(nor the ones yet to be played for those who continue on).

I'm interested in your opinion about DPOY.

For me its Draymond and JJJ and then everyone else. I really respect BroLo and Giannis (and Jrue) but because they have 3 absolutely elite defenders its hard for me to parse out individual credit, which may mean I'm unfairly penalizing them, but not sure how I get around that.

Would have given JJJ the edge despite the 10 fewer games in the RS, but it sure feels like Draymond is going to advance and JJJ isn't. And while I don't think Draymond has been consistently the defensive force we know him as, he's going to get the benefit of the doubt from me that we will continue to see him impact series in a major way.

If I had to vote today, JJJ. But I think Draymond may get him by the end.

And AD just is too inconsistent defensively (and missed a bunch more games). I get when he's motivated to defend, he's as good as anyone in the league. He's been great in the playoffs. But I can't give it to a guy who turns the motor up this infrequently. In fact it kind of hurts him with me because it shows how much more impact he could have had in the regular season if he was willing to grind. But he's just not willing(or able?) to do that.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I don't know if I kneejerk enough. My ballot is likely to be very different based on some of the comments after each individual game lol. And its not that I don't recognize how important each playoff game is. I very much do. But one game should not overrule the entire 82 and the previous playoff games(nor the ones yet to be played for those who continue on).

I'm interested in your opinion about DPOY.

For me its Draymond and JJJ and then everyone else. I really respect BroLo and Giannis (and Jrue) but because they have 3 absolutely elite defenders its hard for me to parse out individual credit, which may mean I'm unfairly penalizing them, but not sure how I get around that.

Would have given JJJ the edge despite the 10 fewer games in the RS, but it sure feels like Draymond is going to advance and JJJ isn't. And while I don't think Draymond has been consistently the defensive force we know him as, he's going to get the benefit of the doubt from me that we will continue to see him impact series in a major way.

If I had to vote today, JJJ. But I think Draymond may get him by the end.

And AD just is too inconsistent defensively (and missed a bunch more games). I get when he's motivated to defend, he's as good as anyone in the league. He's been great in the playoffs. But I can't give it to a guy who turns the motor up this infrequently. In fact it kind of hurts him with me because it shows how much more impact he could have had in the regular season if he was willing to grind. But he's just not willing(or able?) to do that.

AD hasn’t been inconsistent on defense this year though, that’s more of a thing in past years.

I agree that JJJ clears in the RS, but this has probably been ADs best defensive regular season start to finish, he was a DPOY type pre injury, fell off a tad bit after but still was relatively great

If you count solely the games AD has played, I think their defense has been top 5 (I think 4th?) whereas in the games he hasn’t played they would be 29th

I agree with the missed games but he’s been pretty consistent on defense this year for us

[MisterHibachi]

AD played 115 more minutes than JJJ this year btw.

[Colbinii]

I don't know if I kneejerk enough. My ballot is likely to be very different based on some of the comments after each individual game lol. And its not that I don't recognize how important each playoff game is. I very much do. But one game should not overrule the entire 82 and the previous playoff games(nor the ones yet to be played for those who continue on).

I'm interested in your opinion about DPOY.

For me its Draymond and JJJ and then everyone else. I really respect BroLo and Giannis (and Jrue) but because they have 3 absolutely elite defenders its hard for me to parse out individual credit, which may mean I'm unfairly penalizing them, but not sure how I get around that.

Would have given JJJ the edge despite the 10 fewer games in the RS, but it sure feels like Draymond is going to advance and JJJ isn't. And while I don't think Draymond has been consistently the defensive force we know him as, he's going to get the benefit of the doubt from me that we will continue to see him impact series in a major way.

If I had to vote today, JJJ. But I think Draymond may get him by the end.

And AD just is too inconsistent defensively (and missed a bunch more games). I get when he's motivated to defend, he's as good as anyone in the league. He's been great in the playoffs. But I can't give it to a guy who turns the motor up this infrequently. In fact it kind of hurts him with me because it shows how much more impact he could have had in the regular season if he was willing to grind. But he's just not willing(or able?) to do that.

Food for thought:

The Lakers posted a 111.6 Drtg with AD on the court in 1868 minutes.
The Grizzles posted a 109.6 Drtg with JJJ on the court in 1764 minutes.

EPM has JJJ at +3.0 DEPM [99th percentile]
EPM has AD at +2.5 DEPM [98th percentile]

The Warriors posted a 111.6 Drtg with Dray in 2299 minutes.
EPM has Dray at +3.0 DEPM [99th percentile]

At this point it is clearly Draymond > JJJ/AD. JJJ and AD are neck-and-neck but Draymond is very clearly ahead of both of them. Draymond also leads in Net-On/Off for Dtrg.

[Doctor MJ]

What's your thought on DPOY right now?

Totally up in the air. My 3 top regular season guys - Brook, Mobley, JJJ - all look poised to be upset in the first round.

JJJ might exit in the first round but I'd argue he's elevated from his regular season play. If he was dpoy-worthy playing 29mpg, keeping that up for 37mpg(in addition to whatever per-possession "impact" comes from not fouling) shouldn't really hurt his case.

Brook and Mobley have had their weaknesses exploited(with Lopez really struggling without Giannis's coverage as many might have predicted), but I think JJJ's made his argument stronger if anything(though maybe mpg should have played a bigger factor in how we evaluated his regular season?)

Think these playoffs have reinforced the idea that "stay-at-home" rim protection isn't all that viable for anchoring resilient playoff defense. Mobly and Brook probably fit what people "think" Gobert is/was and the results have been brutal

Reasonable point about JJJ's minutes. I have to acknowledge that the regular season minutes really did bother me and I think it was perhaps being a bit generous him even making my top 3.

I'll say generally that I won't necessarily change any of my votes based on the playoffs, but it's really something that these guys' teams aren't just losing but are specifically getting upset.

Re: Brook exploited without Giannis. I don't really think there's any reason to blame Brook and let Giannis off the hook. This is a team with 3 of the most well-respected defenders around and they've been the least effective defense in the entire playoffs so far. This is first and foremost about Jimmy being Jimmy, but if things don't turn around it will severely damage the candidacy for all of them.

I'm also not sure if we should chalk this up to standard Gobert-esque issues. This isn't a giant lost as the midgets shoot from beyond the arc, it's Jimmy basically making the entire half-court his own.

Re: Mobley. There's actually still data indicating Mobley's being effective here, but the Cavs in general feel like they are being exposed as a team that wasn't built to be a team. I was very critical of the team-building before last season but with their success that skepticism turned to to a tip of the cap. Right now though, this seems like a team that might need to fundamentally re-think it's design, and while trading Allen would be the obvious thing, I'm very concerned about the Mitchell/Garland dynamic.

All this to say that my instincts might be more likely to turn against Mobley's defense that he actually deserves.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Totally up in the air. My 3 top regular season guys - Brook, Mobley, JJJ - all look poised to be upset in the first round.

JJJ might exit in the first round but I'd argue he's elevated from his regular season play. If he was dpoy-worthy playing 29mpg, keeping that up for 37mpg(in addition to whatever per-possession "impact" comes from not fouling) shouldn't really hurt his case.

Brook and Mobley have had their weaknesses exploited(with Lopez really struggling without Giannis's coverage as many might have predicted), but I think JJJ's made his argument stronger if anything(though maybe mpg should have played a bigger factor in how we evaluated his regular season?)

Think these playoffs have reinforced the idea that "stay-at-home" rim protection isn't all that viable for anchoring resilient playoff defense. Mobly and Brook probably fit what people "think" Gobert is/was and the results have been brutal

Reasonable point about JJJ's minutes. I have to acknowledge that the regular season minutes really did bother me and I think it was perhaps being a bit generous him even making my top 3.

I'll say generally that I won't necessarily change any of my votes based on the playoffs, but it's really something that these guys' teams aren't just losing but are specifically getting upset.

Re: Brook exploited without Giannis. I don't really think there's any reason to blame Brook and let Giannis off the hook. This is a team with 3 of the most well-respected defenders around and they've been the least effective defense in the entire playoffs so far. This is first and foremost about Jimmy being Jimmy, but if things don't turn around it will severely damage the candidacy for all of them.

I'm also not sure if we should chalk this up to standard Gobert-esque issues. This isn't a giant lost as the midgets shoot from beyond the arc, it's Jimmy basically making the entire half-court his own.

Re: Mobley. There's actually still data indicating Mobley's being effective here, but the Cavs in general feel like they are being exposed as a team that wasn't built to be a team. I was very critical of the team-building before last season but with their success that skepticism turned to to a tip of the cap. Right now though, this seems like a team that might need to fundamentally re-think it's design, and while trading Allen would be the obvious thing, I'm very concerned about the Mitchell/Garland dynamic.

All this to say that my instincts might be more likely to turn against Mobley's defense that he actually deserves.

Wait where does Giannis fit into this he’s only played one game lol

[Doctor MJ]

What's your thought on DPOY right now?

I think AD has been by far the best defender this postseason so far, and outside of missing games he was probably a top 5 defender in the RS as well

I dont see AD as being bar far better defensively than JJJ. JJJ has been amazing in the Lakers series and doesn't have the benefit of having the ultimate QB in LeBron next to him.

Not looking to knock JJJ, but the fact that AD has nearly double the blocks as JJJ - when that is JJJ's calling card - is pretty crazy.

I do think AD has an opportunity to zoom to the top of my DPOY list if he keeps this up over a deep run.