Draymond Malone vs Steph Curry

[rand]

Draymond Malone is a hybrid of Draymond Green and Karl Malone at their peaks, taking only the best of each attribute from each player.

Would you rather have Draymond Malone for a single season in today's NBA or peak Steph Curry?

[70sFan]

I thought it's Moses Dray hybrid, that one would be insane.

[tsherkin]

So Malone gets better at defending on the perimeter but still has the same issues he had in his own time with playoff offense and function as a focal scorer. But maybe improves some because of superior vision and passing from Draymond?

Interesting thought. Dray is a really good defender. Peak Malone has some solid physical tools, good passing and a really nice jumper. But again, struggles under heavy unipolar pressure in the playoffs. Then again now, finding some guard talent to help him out with that and some good spacing isn't as much a challenge as it was for the 90s Jazz, so who knows.

I think I'd shoot my shot with peak Steph because he's more of a known quantity and he's hyper-elite on O, whereas I have a bunch of questions about Dray Malone's offensive impact in today's environment, and in the playoffs. I'm waffling because of that D, though...

[rand]

I thought it's Moses Dray hybrid, that one would be insane.

Hard for me to do what one unfortunately since I never actually saw Moses play.

[tsherkin]

I thought it's Moses Dray hybrid, that one would be insane.

Hard for me to do what one unfortunately since I never actually saw Moses play.

Imagine a 6'10 bull who was a demon on the offensive glass. Now give him Steph's handles, 3pt shot and mid-range game, plus passing.

Good Lord.

[KobesScarf]

Lol so basically Karl Malone but with more technical fouls?

[Colbinii]

Lol so basically Karl Malone but with more technical fouls?

And he becomes an ATG defender and better playmaking/passer aside from passing out of the post.

[penbeast0]

I thought it's Moses Dray hybrid, that one would be insane.

Hard for me to do what one unfortunately since I never actually saw Moses play.

Imagine a 6'10 bull who was a demon on the offensive glass. Now give him Steph's handles, 3pt shot and mid-range game, plus passing.

Good Lord.

I assume you mean Draymond's handles, passing, and 3 point shot (Moses already had the better midrange game). Plus of course the defensive quickness and intelligence.

Who do you think would add more to Draymond's game . . . Moses's strengths or Karl's strengths or maybe Jeff Malone's strengths (okay kidding there.)?

[tsherkin]

And he becomes an ATG defender and better playmaking/passer aside from passing out of the post.

This is the bit which has me waffling.

One could tolerate Malone not being able to hack it against Chicago's D as a focal scorer if he was also exerting a huge amount of defensive pressure, plus acting as a playmaking hub for more than basic post and PnR passes. And of course we don't see a ton of purely unipolar offenses today anyway. And at his peak (assuming you agree it was 98), he was also a 79.7% FT shooter on 10+ FTA/g. It stands to reason that he could learn how to hit an open 3 from the corner or the wing.

So it becomes very, very interesting to consider.

[tsherkin]

Hard for me to do what one unfortunately since I never actually saw Moses play.

Imagine a 6'10 bull who was a demon on the offensive glass. Now give him Steph's handles, 3pt shot and mid-range game, plus passing.

Good Lord.

I assume you mean Draymond's handles, passing, and 3 point shot (Moses already had the better midrange game). Plus of course the defensive quickness and intelligence.

Who do you think would add more to Draymond's game . . . Moses's strengths or Karl's strengths or maybe Jeff Malone's strengths (okay kidding there.)?

Actually, what I mean was my brain turned off and switched Steph in there for some reason xD

Buggered it up, heh.

I'd blame this one on need for coffee, but I have been up for hours. Oops!

EDIT: I got all excited about Steph Malone, heh. But yes, Draymond's passing and defense added to Moses would be very interesting, since both of those were not considered strengths of his.

[AEnigma]

So, Steph versus a version of Garnett with better volume scoring and lessened rim protection?

[euroleague]

So many people talk about Karl Malone "struggling in the playoffs", it seems like they never watched him play. Guy was dominating in the playoffs in single coverage, and often was scoring through double coverage. The second best scorer on his team was Jeff Hornacek, and he made 2 straight Finals. He was lights out against Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen in 98, and had some nerves in 97.

For example, the must-win game 5 victory at Chicago in 1998, where Karl Malone outscored MJ, and scored half his team's points on 66% TS?

Malone's main struggles came from having no teammates who could score, so other teams keyed on in the PnR really hard.

[parsnips33]

Steph or "trade some offense for defense" Lebron pretty much - think I'd go Steph

[kendogg]

Karl Malone is not just a good shooter he's a fantastic shooter. We only have his possession data from 97 onward, but in 97 and 98 he shot better from midrange than Dirk ever did in his career. Also his struggles to generate his own offense would be lessened in this era of much smaller frontlines. Finishing against Kevon Looney is quite a bit easier than Hakeem, Robinson or Shaq. Plus there's far more talent in the league today so a lack of help offensively wouldn't be a problem. Karl is as good or better than Draymond in every way offensively so there isn't much to gain with a combination on that end of the floor.

Defensively Karl already has many of the tools Draymond has, including foot quickness (they are pretty close to even here). If Dray has the slightest of advantages on quickness its because he's 3 inches shorter. Karl has every bit the motor of Dray maybe even better. And there's things Karl clearly has over Draymond, namely core strength and arm strength. Karl could rip balls out of peoples hands and swipe down better than Dray, and he was an immovable object in the post.

There's a couple things that Dray has over Karl though defensively. First is arm length. Disrupting passing lanes and being able to at least get a hand in the face on rotations and help defense is something that Dray is clearly better than Karl at. Timing on help defense is also Draymond favored, though Karl had less help defense opportunities, as he was generally guarding someone in the paint vs standing on the 3-pt line. You can't leave someone in the paint unless you want to give them a layup. Communication, though this is really more of a product of modern defenses and not something that Draymond does by himself, as this is a team effort, but Dray is clearly one of the best at it with his court awareness. Karl was a very smart player too though so I can't say that he wouldn't fit into modern defenses pretty easily all on his own.

Still, If you give Karl Dray's strengths he clearly becomes a better help defender at the least. If Karl had Draymonds long arms, he'd potentially be a much better rim protector as well. I don't think there's any actual measurements on Karl's wingspan, but it's likely less than Dray's 7'1" wingspan despite being 3 inches taller. If Karl had a 7'6"+ wingspan, he'd probably be a pretty good if not elite rim protector. Though Dray's long arms are also probably why he's a crappy shooter and Karl is a great shooter.

So the combination of the two is a top tier shooter and finisher that is a top DPOY contender. You can argue in his guard heavy league today that Karl's offense would be less impressive, but I think it makes him a guy that can pair with pretty much anyone to have a devastating 1-2 punch. Prime Curry is one of the most ridiculous gravitational forces in the history of the league though. How many players in history demand off ball double teams? Shaq, Wilt, Curry? That's it? You can still make a case for Curry because of this.

[AEnigma]

So many people talk about Karl Malone "struggling in the playoffs", it seems like they never watched him play. Guy was dominating in the playoffs in single coverage, and often was scoring through double coverage. The second best scorer on his team was Jeff Hornacek, and he made 2 straight Finals. He was lights out against Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen in 98, and had some nerves in 97.

For example, the must-win game 5 victory at Chicago in 1998, where Karl Malone outscored MJ, and scored half his team's points on 66% TS?

Malone's main struggles came from having no teammates who could score, so other teams keyed on in the PnR really hard.

Uh huh. And what about Game 2, where the Jazz lost a close game while Malone went 5 for 16? What about the next year, where he lost the closeout Game 6 against the Blazers while shooting 3 for 16? He “had some nerves” in 1997, but Stockton did not, so did he have enough help then? What about 1996 when he went 8 for 22 in a winner-take-all game while Stockton matched or out-produced him across the board?

Did you watch him play, or did you just focus on the games he won while scoring well?

[AEnigma]

Steph or "trade some offense for defense" Lebron pretty much - think I'd go Steph

Incredibly weird reasoning and analogy. If I asked who would be better, Moses Malone or the combination of Elgin Baylor and John Havlicek, would you say the answer is Moses because Elgin Havlicek is pretty much “trade some offence for defence” Jordan?

[parsnips33]

Steph or "trade some offense for defense" Lebron pretty much - think I'd go Steph

Incredibly weird reasoning and analogy. If I asked who would be better, Moses Malone or the combination of Elgin Baylor and John Havlicek, would you say the answer is Moses because Elgin Havlicek is pretty much “trade some offence for defence” Jordan?

I think you're reading a "because" into my original post that isn't there - which fair enough, I kinda just dashed something out

I do think Draymond Malone would play something like the current iteration of Bron - posting up in the halfcourt and leading the break in transition. Obviously a less versatile scorer/playmaker, but I think a clear advantage on defense.

Still think I'd take Steph over that hypothetical player, but not because he'd play like Lebron per se

[AEnigma]

Okay that makes more sense lol.

I prefer my Garnett analogy, but either way I guess the comparison requires an adjustment.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Lol so basically Karl Malone but with more technical fouls?

And he becomes an ATG defender and better playmaking/passer aside from passing out of the post.

Is Draymond actually a better passer than Malone? Draymond stands wide open and makes passes to players that do work off the ball. He's also a turnover machine. If he were actually a threat to score (like Malone) he wouldn't have so many easy passes.

Passing becomes a lot harder when you also have to score and teams actually defend you.

[Colbinii]

Lol so basically Karl Malone but with more technical fouls?

And he becomes an ATG defender and better playmaking/passer aside from passing out of the post.

Is Draymond actually a better passer than Malone? Draymond stands wide open and makes passes to players that do work off the ball. He's also a turnover machine. If he were actually a threat to score (like Malone) he wouldn't have so many easy passes.

Yeah, Draymond is a better ball-handler and passer outside of the paint.