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Trade Discussion 22/23

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SOUNDCHASER
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7921 » by SOUNDCHASER » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:10 am

Mike lorenzo wrote:
SOUNDCHASER wrote:A 2 Draft picks:

when you drop down to take Gregory Jackson a 6'9 SF/PF possibly 6'10 and still growing. now w an extra pick and you can draft Zach Edey. Both are matchup nightmares and versatile enough to defend and score. Jackson can play 2 positions and maybe center as well and if Zach is the real deal no center in the league can stop him in the paint.

Green at SF and Greg at PF = some nice defense.
B Free agents: MLE and a BAE possibly and so who would you add in free agency that would take such sum?

Plumlee and Naz Reid both can play center and Naz is a big body that can bang shoot 3's and be a decent PF. If Plumlee is not a fit maybe another decent SF/PF 6'8 or larger.

C Undrafted free agent rookies: Watch for Juan Nunez best PG in Europe supposedly at 6'4

D Trades: Using the expiring contracts of Bertans and Bullock gives the mavs plenty of salary to grab something we can use from teams wanting to shrink salary cap and the best time for that is at the TDL after you see what the new pieces can do or not do. Then you know what the team still needs help with.

Pretty sure this is a contender and with that much youth the prospects of creating a contender that could last for years is worth the addition of talent from the draft.

The gift of youth is not something you can buy in free agency and it is the key to creating a contender with talent on much lower cost salaries that give you a chance to add players who otherwise would cause serious cap problems. THe draft is the only right use for the 10th pick if you can use it to fill one or 2 holes. Eventually Jackson would be the starter and lead defender at SF and Zach is a future 20-13 guy that blocks and alters tons of shots.

I can see some teams getting to the point they are going to blow things up and when that happens we just need to add one of those guys they decide is too expensive to keep around on a rebuilding team. These 2 rookies are looking great on you tube and I would love to see both end up here but with our expiring contracts there to help out if they should take a little longer to fit into the league that serves as an insurance policy that gives us the luxury to make a correction and get the team more help at the TDL so its really not that big of a gamble at all.

With better defense and bigs we are a perennial contender but you have one 30 something on the team now and we need to plan for his replacement eventually because nobody plays forever and if we can develop 2 more rookies into starters that will get us to the next level and then some.

$27 MILLION in salary shedding Insurance is there to be traded for at the TDL
NAZ and Maybe PLUMLEE is a little more insurance to provide the role players that can step in as needed when the rookies struggle. Zach is not one to engage in stupid rookie fouls and getting in foul trouble, not a problem, the stats show this proclivity to avoid foul trouble in his time on the court and that is usually what keeps a rookie big men glued to the bench so that makes him a lot more ready to step on an NBA court IMHO.

Between all our options we have a lot of talent to target in free agency the draft and via trades at the TDL so we are looking like we can take a risk on a potential generational big man talent at 7'4.

Jackson very good prospect but super raw..I don't think he'll be a contributor next year at all..Do you think Zach will play in the current NBA?don't you know a Boban project?...wouldn't want anything to do with Plumlee being a good player but fits even worse than Mcgee in our defensive system in my opinion..Naz Reid out of our range, I think if he takes MLE Wolves will keep him..I don't see anything too interesting for us in FA.. Maybe T.Brown if the Lakers don't keep him (I doubt they can).. Thybulle,Aaron Wiggins,DJJr,Balde Diop,Drummond?Crowder?..some decent bank guys..don't see much else


I just dont think Taylor Hendricks will fall to 10 if he is there I take him over GG because his defense is awesome. GG is almost a full year younger he is going to make leaps in his game sort of like Hardy did. He may grow to be a center at 18 he is possibly still getting taller like Giannis did.

Zach is a more traditional big and the team desperately needs one who can score inside as well as defend the rim and rebound. With him in there to rebound we get a lot of second chance attempts from 3 and additional shots equals a lot of extra three pointers.

His defense is needed against certain match ups and his inside scoring would make other teams play off of our shooters much more. Our ball handlers would have an easier time finding an open man because Zach would take a double team to stop inside and that is true for a lot of teams if not all of them. His mobility is a few levels above Bobans mobility and he has a lot of court time over 3 seasons so he is already developed for the NBA if you ask me because he hardly ever fouls and with that size there are not a lot of teams that will allow their franchise players drive to the rim against him.

When you have a game changing talent like Zach his game is strong enough to make the league adapt or he dominates way too much.

Teams will ignore him at their peril. Boban had 30 point games a few times when the coach let him do it.

The coach has to be smart to play an inside out game like David Robinson and Timmy used to use and he has good hands to be a major force with an inside scoring touch that reminds me of a lot of great centers. Timmy Gino and parker were a top 3 that we could possibly be able to remind people of with the big three we can put on the court except if
Gregory develops as Hardy has then we have a lot more to put out there.

Even though Green is good Green is an undersized SF so we would mostly use Gregory on defense to start off with but hey if Hendricks drops in he is starter from day one at SF and also playing some at PF. Kleber at PF is okay but If NAZ is staying in minn I would try to steal a SF somewhere from someone and use Green at SG with Hardy as the 2nd strings PG. You have to add talent in the draft to get young talent that can play as they learn the game and do so on rookie scale salaries so you have salary cap room to try veterans.

Gregory is an investment in a talent that could play 3 positions and that is a premium type of player in the league these days. I will bet he grows to 6'11 in another year or 2 and a 6'11 SF capable defender is hard to find. We can probably find a PF with the expiring contracts that we have. Adding Zach is a cheap move to sue with an acquired 2nd round pick and that could give the team another look on defense that coaches on other teams might have a tough time countering and I like using different looks to make other teams pay a price for staying course when they think they have it all figured out.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7922 » by Maverick41 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:07 am

Teffer10 wrote:Not bad...I'm not sure who would say no.

Cleveland would most likely do that deal.
Dallas should do that deal, though we'd have to find a replacement for Maxi.
Nets??? they might be the ones to say no. Maybe only send one of those picks (#21) plus #51 or a future 2nd rounder and I think the Cavs would still do it.

We might want to reconsider this on DAL's side or slightly adjust it. JaFro got badly bullied and outplayed by Mitchell Robinson today and basically all series. Looked soft and disinterested.

His trade value has to be at an all time low right now.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7923 » by Michaellam1987 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:27 am

Mavrelous wrote:
Michaellam1987 wrote:
Maverick41 wrote:I 100% do that trade if ATL was willing. That's a straight upgrade for 2 legitimate starting players in the frontcourt and then still the capability of getting a decent prospect OR trading the pick for another starting level player.


This trade offer is extremely bad for ATL, they will never agree to give up a double double machine in Capela with acceptable mobility, a still young and potentially talented player in Collins with a large contract, in turn for 3 over 30 year old players under bad contracts, just for moving up 6 spots in the draft.

Neighbors grass is always greener...
Check Capellas minutes in the PO, his FT shooting and lack of spacing hurt teams, that's why Rockets traded him, but the Mavs rebounding is such a problem that they have to make compromises.
Collins has been dangled for a long time and Ainge asked for a 1st to take him.
Maxi is perfect complement to OO, and they are deep in tax land.
This trade gives them a spacing 4 who can switch, a backup center and 25 million drop in cap space + big TPE.
Mavs aren't in position to overpay for talent, they should trade for flawed talent and hope Luka/Kyrie handle them.


As a DAL fan, it is sad to say so, but Maxi gives you nothing offensively, except a spot up 3PT shooter, but his 3PT is not falling recently, and he is definitely not confident to take them right now. His defense ability also fall a lot. This combined with his age and his recent injury history, plus newly resigned 3 years 33M deal, all add up together, making him a negative asset now. If I am the GM, I will NOT take that deal, instead I will just asking around the league to see if can at least get some useful player under expiring contracts for Capela/Collins.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7924 » by Mavrelous » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:33 am

The Cavs had the most impressive self inflicted wound on the deadline, they had Love's 30 million expiring, who was their backup big off the bench, they managed to neither trade him nor keep him.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
Fortune favours the bold, so it ducked Nico Harrison.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7925 » by Mavrelous » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:34 am

Michaellam1987 wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:
Michaellam1987 wrote:
This trade offer is extremely bad for ATL, they will never agree to give up a double double machine in Capela with acceptable mobility, a still young and potentially talented player in Collins with a large contract, in turn for 3 over 30 year old players under bad contracts, just for moving up 6 spots in the draft.

Neighbors grass is always greener...
Check Capellas minutes in the PO, his FT shooting and lack of spacing hurt teams, that's why Rockets traded him, but the Mavs rebounding is such a problem that they have to make compromises.
Collins has been dangled for a long time and Ainge asked for a 1st to take him.
Maxi is perfect complement to OO, and they are deep in tax land.
This trade gives them a spacing 4 who can switch, a backup center and 25 million drop in cap space + big TPE.
Mavs aren't in position to overpay for talent, they should trade for flawed talent and hope Luka/Kyrie handle them.


As a DAL fan, it is sad to say so, but Maxi gives you nothing offensively, except a spot up 3PT shooter, but his 3PT is not falling recently, and he is definitely not confident to take them right now. His defense ability also fall a lot. This combined with his age and his recent injury history, plus newly resigned 3 years 33M deal, all add up together, making him a negative asset now. If I am the GM, I will NOT take that deal, instead I will just asking around the league to see if can at least get some useful player under expiring contracts for Capela/Collins.

It's bad trading strategy to price our players based in their bad stretches and opposing team players based on what they were 2 years ago.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
Fortune favours the bold, so it ducked Nico Harrison.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7926 » by arkuo » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:45 am

Mavrelous wrote:The Cavs had the most impressive self inflicted wound on the deadline, they had Love's 30 million expiring, who was their backup big off the bench, they managed to neither trade him nor keep him.



Cavs are ****. They gave up all their assets on the Donovan Mitchell trade. Yet it seems like they need to trade for more pieces to bolster the lineup. With no assets or picks left, I dont know where they go from here.

Knicks are interesting because Brunson, Barrett and Randle dont play defense at all but they seem to have made it work. Difference seems to be having a real center. But even if the Mavs just change Powell to a real center, will that be enough to get past the 1st round? Knicks and Kings are very good examples of teams who dont play defense but are able to win games. Luka and Kyrie dont play defense too but ball movement leaves much to be desired. It's just stacking iso plays for those two with Luka not knowing how to play with a co-star YET. That could change though.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7927 » by Mr B » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:57 am

arkuo wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:The Cavs had the most impressive self inflicted wound on the deadline, they had Love's 30 million expiring, who was their backup big off the bench, they managed to neither trade him nor keep him.



Cavs are ****. They gave up all their assets on the Donovan Mitchell trade. Yet it seems like they need to trade for more pieces to bolster the lineup. With no assets or picks left, I dont know where they go from here.

Knicks are interesting because Brunson, Barrett and Randle dont play defense at all but they seem to have made it work. Difference seems to be having a real center. But even if the Mavs just change Powell to a real center, will that be enough to get past the 1st round? Knicks and Kings are very good examples of teams who dont play defense but are able to win games. Luka and Kyrie dont play defense too but ball movement leaves much to be desired. It's just stacking iso plays for those two with Luka not knowing how to play with a co-star YET. That could change though.

Why not see if the Knicks would be willing to give up one of their centers? Mitchell Robinson would be the obvious choice but either Hartenstein or Sims could work. And could they do it without giving up 10?
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7928 » by arkuo » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:07 am

Mr B wrote:
arkuo wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:The Cavs had the most impressive self inflicted wound on the deadline, they had Love's 30 million expiring, who was their backup big off the bench, they managed to neither trade him nor keep him.



Cavs are ****. They gave up all their assets on the Donovan Mitchell trade. Yet it seems like they need to trade for more pieces to bolster the lineup. With no assets or picks left, I dont know where they go from here.

Knicks are interesting because Brunson, Barrett and Randle dont play defense at all but they seem to have made it work. Difference seems to be having a real center. But even if the Mavs just change Powell to a real center, will that be enough to get past the 1st round? Knicks and Kings are very good examples of teams who dont play defense but are able to win games. Luka and Kyrie dont play defense too but ball movement leaves much to be desired. It's just stacking iso plays for those two with Luka not knowing how to play with a co-star YET. That could change though.

Why not see if the Knicks would be willing to give up one of their centers? Mitchell Robinson would be the obvious choice but either Hartenstein or Sims could work. And could they do it without giving up 10?


Any inquiry on the Knick players right now would be buying high IMO. They'd be overpriced considering they got them to the 2nd round thus far. I think Myles Turner would be an ideal choice as Indiana looks to go into another rebuild and would have little use for Turner as they arent in it to compete with Boston, Milwaukee or Philly yet.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7929 » by Michaellam1987 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:27 am

Mavrelous wrote:
Michaellam1987 wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Neighbors grass is always greener...
Check Capellas minutes in the PO, his FT shooting and lack of spacing hurt teams, that's why Rockets traded him, but the Mavs rebounding is such a problem that they have to make compromises.
Collins has been dangled for a long time and Ainge asked for a 1st to take him.
Maxi is perfect complement to OO, and they are deep in tax land.
This trade gives them a spacing 4 who can switch, a backup center and 25 million drop in cap space + big TPE.
Mavs aren't in position to overpay for talent, they should trade for flawed talent and hope Luka/Kyrie handle them.


As a DAL fan, it is sad to say so, but Maxi gives you nothing offensively, except a spot up 3PT shooter, but his 3PT is not falling recently, and he is definitely not confident to take them right now. His defense ability also fall a lot. This combined with his age and his recent injury history, plus newly resigned 3 years 33M deal, all add up together, making him a negative asset now. If I am the GM, I will NOT take that deal, instead I will just asking around the league to see if can at least get some useful player under expiring contracts for Capela/Collins.

It's bad trading strategy to price our players based in their bad stretches and opposing team players based on what they were 2 years ago.


Let's see what is going to happen in the offseason, then we will know who is correct.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7930 » by Maverick41 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:02 am

I can see MIL going hard for someone like Lillard this offseason. Considering their contracts structure, they'd have to trade 1 of Holiday or Middleton who POR wouldn't want. Might be able to sneak in and be that 3rd team.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7931 » by 41Dirk41 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:25 am

arkuo wrote:
Mr B wrote:
arkuo wrote:

Cavs are ****. They gave up all their assets on the Donovan Mitchell trade. Yet it seems like they need to trade for more pieces to bolster the lineup. With no assets or picks left, I dont know where they go from here.

Knicks are interesting because Brunson, Barrett and Randle dont play defense at all but they seem to have made it work. Difference seems to be having a real center. But even if the Mavs just change Powell to a real center, will that be enough to get past the 1st round? Knicks and Kings are very good examples of teams who dont play defense but are able to win games. Luka and Kyrie dont play defense too but ball movement leaves much to be desired. It's just stacking iso plays for those two with Luka not knowing how to play with a co-star YET. That could change though.

Why not see if the Knicks would be willing to give up one of their centers? Mitchell Robinson would be the obvious choice but either Hartenstein or Sims could work. And could they do it without giving up 10?


Any inquiry on the Knick players right now would be buying high IMO. They'd be overpriced considering they got them to the 2nd round thus far. I think Myles Turner would be an ideal choice as Indiana looks to go into another rebuild and would have little use for Turner as they arent in it to compete with Boston, Milwaukee or Philly yet.


Yes and last off season we should have done it after the WCF... Instead we lost Brunson for nothing and made no other moves other than Wood trade.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7932 » by Teffer10 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:55 am

I have a feeling Mavs will aggressively go after Turner. It would most like take Hardy or Green plus the pick.
I could see them offering Green/Bertans/#10 for Turner.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7933 » by Mavrelous » Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:52 am

Teffer10 wrote:I have a feeling Mavs will aggressively go after Turner. It would most like take Hardy or Green plus the pick.
I could see them offering Green/Bertans/#10 for Turner.

According to Pacers fan (who tend to HODL their players usually, so take it with a grain of salt), they aren't interested.
I'd rather trade 27 1st instead of Green, and get the #21 and #26 picks from them, draft 2 young prospects, and keep Green and Hardy, Mavs need young blood.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
Fortune favours the bold, so it ducked Nico Harrison.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7934 » by daoneandonly » Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:31 pm

Mr B wrote:
Ni Da Ye wrote:Assuming Kawhi is available, is he worth the gamble?

Obviously I want to eliminate the risk by parting with Irving and acquiring Kawhi.

Having Kawhi and Irving is wayyyyyy too much risk, which no team can afford to have.

I thought about that too. I don’t think I would want Kawhi. He misses way too much time. I’m not even sure how much he still wants to play. I would probably rather have Paul George than Kawhi and honestly even PG is injured too often. If I’m going to send Kyrie to the Clippers I would probably ask for Covington, Mann, and Zubac. We wouldn’t be getting a star back but those three guys would vastly improve our defense and rebounding.


I would prefer this to signing Kyrie. I think they'd need to add Eric Gordon too to make the money work, maybe we cna send McGee to give them a stop gap C.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7935 » by Archx » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:13 pm

Interesting. Kidd cleaning house but still won't hold himself accountable on anything.

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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7936 » by daoneandonly » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:16 pm

Archx wrote:Interesting. Kidd cleaning house but still won't hold himself accountable on anything.

Read on Twitter


I mean it starts at the top right? Cuban is probably the least accountable guy in the room, so stands to reason his minion would follow suit
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7937 » by Archx » Thu Apr 27, 2023 1:33 pm

daoneandonly wrote:I mean it starts at the top right? Cuban is probably the least accountable guy in the room, so stands to reason his minion would follow suit


Yeah that's true. But i never heard Kidd say "That's on me, i should have done this or that or just simply be better"... Kerr the other day literally took the blame for playoff game loss. I want to hear from Kidd at least once what HE could have tactically done better.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7938 » by Ni Da Ye » Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:18 pm

Mavs' golden opportunity after Bucks got eliminated!

Bucks need offense. Mavs need defense.

Bucks need to clean their shatty house a little bit.

The trade would centralize on Kyrie <-> Jrue

But we could get creative to get rid of Bertans. They love shooters around Giannis, right?
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7939 » by Mr B » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:39 pm

arkuo wrote:
Mr B wrote:
arkuo wrote:

Cavs are ****. They gave up all their assets on the Donovan Mitchell trade. Yet it seems like they need to trade for more pieces to bolster the lineup. With no assets or picks left, I dont know where they go from here.

Knicks are interesting because Brunson, Barrett and Randle dont play defense at all but they seem to have made it work. Difference seems to be having a real center. But even if the Mavs just change Powell to a real center, will that be enough to get past the 1st round? Knicks and Kings are very good examples of teams who dont play defense but are able to win games. Luka and Kyrie dont play defense too but ball movement leaves much to be desired. It's just stacking iso plays for those two with Luka not knowing how to play with a co-star YET. That could change though.

Why not see if the Knicks would be willing to give up one of their centers? Mitchell Robinson would be the obvious choice but either Hartenstein or Sims could work. And could they do it without giving up 10?


Any inquiry on the Knick players right now would be buying high IMO. They'd be overpriced considering they got them to the 2nd round thus far. I think Myles Turner would be an ideal choice as Indiana looks to go into another rebuild and would have little use for Turner as they arent in it to compete with Boston, Milwaukee or Philly yet.

Absolutely, if they can get Myles Turner that would be a no brainer. My only concern with Turner is his injury history but he’s still light years better than anyone currently on the roster.
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Re: Trade Discussion 22/23 

Post#7940 » by Maverick41 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:44 pm

Ni Da Ye wrote:Mavs' golden opportunity after Bucks got eliminated!

Bucks need offense. Mavs need defense.

Bucks need to clean their shatty house a little bit.

The trade would centralize on Kyrie <-> Jrue

But we could get creative to get rid of Bertans. They love shooters around Giannis, right?

I would do it. Jrue is a hand in glove fit with Luka. It makes both teams better and enables the team to be more versatile in forming the rest of the team rather then trying to find the perfect fits to cover for both Luka AND Kyrie's defensive shortcomings.

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