Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[emunney]

There are very few times when lateral trades, change for the sake of change, are appropriate. After a collapse like this, it's required.

If you can swap guys out for different guys and maintain the same general level of play, fine. If you break things down and pick up a new crew of younger players who you believe can grow into a new core around Giannis, fine. Whatever seems like the best opportunity. You certainly have to get somebody who leads by more than example. I didn't see one player talking during the 4th quarter. They all turned inward. Implosion.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I'm not really a fire every coach the minute something goes wrong kind of guy but that series may have been a firable offense for Bud.

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[LedZepp007]

Bud is a good coach for sure, IMHO. Regardless of how you feel about him, though, his time here has simply run its course. His and the team’s performance during this series was 100% fireable. I doubt he makes it to the end of the day.


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[machu46]

Just some kinda disorganized thoughts on where things sit right now after taking the night to breathe a bit.

Milwaukee just don't have many levers they can realistically pull IMO. Middleton can opt out of his deal and hit free agency this offseason; Milwaukee may be forced to give him a max contract or lose him for nothing and I'm not sure either of those outcomes are good for Milwaukee.

I tend to doubt Jrue will be moved as he's a pretty important part of their identity, but I suppose their identity could change depending on if they fire Budenholzer. It's even trickier because Jrue is turning 33 in a month and if you move on from him, you're probably doing it to bring back an all-star caliber PG for it to make sense...who are they going to pursue? Trae Young, pretty much the exact opposite player of Jrue? Damian Lillard, who's about to turn 33 as well? Fred VanVleet, who's a bit younger but also a significant downgrade? I think there's some semblance of a chance they could make a good enough offer for Trae or Dame if those two play hardball with their current teams, but it's probably a long shot. And I'm not sure swapping Jrue for FVV makes much sense aside from "They have to do something".

Brook is a free agent and was maybe the 2nd best player for most of the season and arguably the best player in the Miami series, but he just turned 35 and has been played off the floor in prior postseasons.

If they let Middleton or Brook walk, they'll have pretty much no cap space to replace them so those are just straight up massive downgrades.

They don't have a pick until the late 50s in this year's draft, so they won't be getting an influx of talent there either.

Bobby Portis should probably be shopped, but he's the 2nd most popular player on the team and it will look pretty terrible if they trade him after he took what was perceived to be a massive discount to come back.

I'm definitely fine with firing Budenholzer, but I don't really expect us to find a better coach than him and I also just think it's embarrassing that a team of 30+ year olds apparently need a coach that can help them play with composure. I'm not going to pretend to know which assistant coaches might make good head coaches, but I tend to think Bud > Nurse. Nurse seems to be the best retread candidate available though and I'm not really gonna fight anyone that thinks he'd be an upgrade at this point.

Maybe someone like Stackhouse or Sam Cassell could be breakthrough coaches? Give Kenny Atkinson another shot? One of the European coaches like the Barcelona dude or Messina?

I don't know; seems like Horst will need to be very creative this offseason if they don't want to essentially run it back again.

[msiris]

We have seen the same thing the last couple of years. We have too many guys who are unplayable in the playoffs. So its not just the coach.

[Antinomy]

I’m not saying we need to blow it up next season…

But sometimes you need a “down year”.

What exactly does a down year solve for us next season? The pelicans own a pick swap with us.

A “down year” as in ship Jrue’s ass out — take a flier on some young guys.

Marjon has to take a step next year + we need young legs & a new coach.

If that means we get a 4 or 5 seed in a transitional year, so be it.

We’re not getting anything of value for Bobby, Grayson or Pat — 2 of which, are unplayable in the postseason.

[msiris]

Just some kinda disorganized thoughts on where things sit right now after taking the night to breathe a bit.

Milwaukee just don't have many levers they can realistically pull IMO. Middleton can opt out of his deal and hit free agency this offseason; Milwaukee may be forced to give him a max contract or lose him for nothing and I'm not sure either of those outcomes are good for Milwaukee.

I tend to doubt Jrue will be moved as he's a pretty important part of their identity, but I suppose their identity could change depending on if they fire Budenholzer. It's even trickier because Jrue is turning 33 in a month and if you move on from him, you're probably doing it to bring back an all-star caliber PG for it to make sense...who are they going to pursue? Trae Young, pretty much the exact opposite player of Jrue? Damian Lillard, who's about to turn 33 as well? Fred VanVleet, who's a bit younger but also a significant downgrade? I think there's some semblance of a chance they could make a good enough offer for Trae or Dame if those two play hardball with their current teams, but it's probably a long shot. And I'm not sure swapping Jrue for FVV makes much sense aside from "They have to do something".

Brook is a free agent and was maybe the 2nd best player for most of the season and arguably the best player in the Miami series, but he just turned 35 and has been played off the floor in prior postseasons.

If they let Middleton or Brook walk, they'll have pretty much no cap space to replace them so those are just straight up massive downgrades.

They don't have a pick until the late 50s in this year's draft, so they won't be getting an influx of talent there either.

Bobby Portis should probably be shopped, but he's the 2nd most popular player on the team and it will look pretty terrible if they trade him after he took what was perceived to be a massive discount to come back.

I'm definitely fine with firing Budenholzer, but I don't really expect us to find a better coach than him and I also just think it's embarrassing that a team of 30+ year olds apparently need a coach that can help them play with composure. I'm not going to pretend to know which assistant coaches might make good head coaches, but I tend to think Bud > Nurse. Nurse seems to be the best retread candidate available though and I'm not really gonna fight anyone that thinks he'd be an upgrade at this point.

Maybe someone like Stackhouse or Sam Cassell could be breakthrough coaches? Give Kenny Atkinson another shot? One of the European coaches like the Barcelona dude or Messina?

I don't know; seems like Horst will need to be very creative this offseason if they don't want to essentially run it back again.

Jrue is another guy who plays poorly in the playoffs. Bobby as well. Need to stop worying about who is popular. Its a business.

[Be Here Now]

I think Jrue has a good trade value, there are many teams with scoring first, bad defenders point guards. Why not pair them with a good defensive guard. Middleton is a bit tricky because it should be a sign and trade

Bobby Portis has a reasonable contract so he has value, Allen too

Marjon is the only young guy of value but I would prefer to keep him and establish him in the rotation

If I'm Milwaukee, I'm seeing if I can get Kyrie to commit to a sign-and-trade that brings him to Milwaukee and sends Jrue to Dallas.

I would rather trade Giannis than add Kryie. Seriously.

[ShootingtheJ]

Days like these I'm thankful that I have heavey metal and 2 dogs.

[aboveAverage]

I think realistically we have to re-sign Khris to a max deal. He’s still very good and we can’t let him walk for nothing. We can’t sign anyone to replace his level of production and we’ll need him as a trade chip later in the worst case.

Then I think we should definitely re-sign Brook as well. He had a great year and still can be used in trades in the future too. We need his rim protection to have any shot at having a reasonably good defense next season.

I’d then look to shop Jrue, Bobby (unfortunate because he’s a fan favorite, but he can’t be counted on consistently in the playoffs), Grayson and Pat C. Maybe we can get a Terry Rozier type of player.

Bud is the hard one. I’d say you have to fire him unless he promises to scrap his entire system and start completely fresh, with new assistants to hold him accountable. But even then, why not just hire someone new and let them do that. I’d aim for Nick Nurse or Ty Lue.

[paulpressey25]

Bobby Marks summary video.

Thinks Middleton gets 3/$90 somewhere, maybe us.

Thinks best option to run it back with this roster, because all the other options are hard to pull off with limited assets.

Watch on YouTube

[Be Here Now]

I think pp25 was onto something with his CLE, POR, MKE 3 way suggestion. You have all the makings of a fit. The Blazer's competitive window has closed and the Bucks & Cavs just flamed out in round 1 in spectacular fashion, so you'd think they'll be desperate to shake it up. Not to mention that Dame has said he'd like to play with Giannis.

Dame is obviously worth more than Jrue, but Dame and Mitchell don't work together. Mitchell and Jrue work much better together due to Jrue's size. CLE has the young assets to potentially get this deal done, but it does probably require Dame to demand a trade.

[dedned]

I think Jrue has a good trade value, there are many teams with scoring first, bad defenders point guards. Why not pair them with a good defensive guard. Middleton is a bit tricky because it should be a sign and trade

Bobby Portis has a reasonable contract so he has value, Allen too

Marjon is the only young guy of value but I would prefer to keep him and establish him in the rotation

If I'm Milwaukee, I'm seeing if I can get Kyrie to commit to a sign-and-trade that brings him to Milwaukee and sends Jrue to Dallas.

I would rather trade Giannis than add Kryie. Seriously.

I think this trade makes a lot sense for both teams.

[aboveAverage]

We have seen the same thing the last couple of years. We have too many guys who are unplayable in the playoffs. So its not just the coach.

I’m not sure if that’s really true until we see them in a proper system. Do you think Max Strus, Caleb Martin, and Gabe Vincent would be playable in the playoffs under Bud? I guarantee you that a bunch of our guys would do just fine with Spoelstra.

[Ron Swanson]

I think pp25 was onto something with his CLE, POR, MKE 3 way suggestion. You have all the makings of a fit. The Blazer's competitive window has closed and the Bucks & Cavs just flamed out in round 1 in spectacular fashion, so you'd think they'll be desperate to shake it up. Not to mention that Dame has said he'd like to play with Giannis.

Dame is obviously worth more than Jrue, but Dame and Mitchell don't work together. Mitchell and Jrue work much better together due to Jrue's size. CLE has the young assets to potentially get this deal done, but it does probably require Dame to demand a trade.

I hadn't really thought of this but if Cleveland is willing to part with Garland to pair Jrue with Mitchell, I'm not seeing why we wouldn't just cut out Portland and take Garland for ourselves.

[machu46]

Just some kinda disorganized thoughts on where things sit right now after taking the night to breathe a bit.

Milwaukee just don't have many levers they can realistically pull IMO. Middleton can opt out of his deal and hit free agency this offseason; Milwaukee may be forced to give him a max contract or lose him for nothing and I'm not sure either of those outcomes are good for Milwaukee.

I tend to doubt Jrue will be moved as he's a pretty important part of their identity, but I suppose their identity could change depending on if they fire Budenholzer. It's even trickier because Jrue is turning 33 in a month and if you move on from him, you're probably doing it to bring back an all-star caliber PG for it to make sense...who are they going to pursue? Trae Young, pretty much the exact opposite player of Jrue? Damian Lillard, who's about to turn 33 as well? Fred VanVleet, who's a bit younger but also a significant downgrade? I think there's some semblance of a chance they could make a good enough offer for Trae or Dame if those two play hardball with their current teams, but it's probably a long shot. And I'm not sure swapping Jrue for FVV makes much sense aside from "They have to do something".

Brook is a free agent and was maybe the 2nd best player for most of the season and arguably the best player in the Miami series, but he just turned 35 and has been played off the floor in prior postseasons.

If they let Middleton or Brook walk, they'll have pretty much no cap space to replace them so those are just straight up massive downgrades.

They don't have a pick until the late 50s in this year's draft, so they won't be getting an influx of talent there either.

Bobby Portis should probably be shopped, but he's the 2nd most popular player on the team and it will look pretty terrible if they trade him after he took what was perceived to be a massive discount to come back.

I'm definitely fine with firing Budenholzer, but I don't really expect us to find a better coach than him and I also just think it's embarrassing that a team of 30+ year olds apparently need a coach that can help them play with composure. I'm not going to pretend to know which assistant coaches might make good head coaches, but I tend to think Bud > Nurse. Nurse seems to be the best retread candidate available though and I'm not really gonna fight anyone that thinks he'd be an upgrade at this point.

Maybe someone like Stackhouse or Sam Cassell could be breakthrough coaches? Give Kenny Atkinson another shot? One of the European coaches like the Barcelona dude or Messina?

I don't know; seems like Horst will need to be very creative this offseason if they don't want to essentially run it back again.

I would like to add that if Ty Lue actually becomes available, I do view him as an upgrade over Bud. Would be pretty thrilled to get him.

[Be Here Now]

If I'm Milwaukee, I'm seeing if I can get Kyrie to commit to a sign-and-trade that brings him to Milwaukee and sends Jrue to Dallas.

I would rather trade Giannis than add Kryie. Seriously.

I think this trade makes a lot sense for both teams.

On paper, sure. But everyone hates Kyrie once they're actually teammates. Acquiring Kyrie would almost assure us that Giannis walks for nothing in a couple years, so that's why I'd rather just trade Giannis than add Kyrie to the core.

[JayMKE]

Fire Bud & bring in Nurse or Lue, sign and trade Khris for Kyrie, move Jrue to 2, resign Brook for discount hopefully, pray Beauchamp is ready to contribute next year

idk

[Ron Swanson]

You guys still on your Kyrie **** are absolutely insane. Please, just stop.

[aboveAverage]

No no no to Kyrie. I’m not trying to ruin this franchise with that kind of panic trade.