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Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#181 » by fansinceforever » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:50 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
msiris wrote:We have seen the same thing the last couple of years. We have too many guys who are unplayable in the playoffs. So its not just the coach.


This is the conundrum we have with Giannis. Everyone screams "Why can't you win titles with the best player in the league!?!?"

Well, the answer is that his offensive limitations with no jump shot differentiate him from literally every other NBA superstar of the last 30-years, save for Shaq. Giannis can't take over games offensively against great playoff teams like Durant, Butler, Steph, etc. can.

Now is he better than those guys on defense? Of course. But those other superstar teams already have defensive stoppers like Draymond, so they don't need Steph or Durant to control the defense as well.


Ehh, we've seen Giannis take over PO games offensively plenty of times. I mean he had 38 and 20 in a bad game last night.

There's ways to put him in position to be more successful but our complimentary players aren't play makers and our coach is completely lost.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#182 » by JayMKE » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:50 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Not gonna even entertain an argument where one calls any alternative suggestion insane and then immediately pivots to advocate for Kyrie. Nope, just like Kyrie and every single locker room that he inevitably nukes, it defies rational logic.


Didn't say any alternate suggestion was insane, I said the idea that Lillard specifically would demand a trade to Milwaukee & only Milwaukee to the point it lowers his return to something we can afford is insane because it is. I don't think the Bucks have the assets to make a big trade mostly, not sure who we could realistically get better in a reloading trade for Middleton or Jrue otherwise but definitely not another allstar PG.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#183 » by FrieAaron » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:51 pm

BucksRule18 wrote:The 2 positives I have for Nurse is that the only year he had a legitimate superstar on his team, he won the chip. Secondly, unlike Bud, he actually changed strategies on how to guard Giannis after 2 games, which completely changed the course of the series.


I want a hard ass for this team. Especially if it looks more similar to last nights squad than we're hoping. Someone that will call dudes out if they're being dumbasses. If Nurse is that guy, OK.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#184 » by skones » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:56 pm

Anyone who wants a "hardass" doesn't know how this league works. It's not 1988. Players do not respond well to that ****.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#185 » by Antinomy » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:57 pm

We need to take fliers in a few players.

Undrafted or not.

Heat had f*cking Gabe Vincent, Duncan Robinson, Max Strus, Hayward Highsmith lighting us up — all of them undrafted.

We need a Lakers trade deadline overhaul & Jrue needs to be the one to go.

We literally shipped Bledsoe to Chin over what Jrue has been doing.

If it weren’t for Khris in 2021, we’d have went FIVE straight years with mediocre PG play in the postseason completely submarining our offense and no title to show for it.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#186 » by Badgerlander » Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:58 pm

It’s too bad, Udoka was the best coach available
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#187 » by Antinomy » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:00 pm

Serge28 wrote:I need the announcement of Bud getting fired. I'm not watching another Bucks game that he coaches. 100% serious.


Ditto.

I’m not watching another game Jrue plays in.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#188 » by JayMKE » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:05 pm

As bad Bud has been I'd prefer to not have a hard ass coach ala Jason Kidd. We need a guy who actually runs an offense, goes at mismatches, and be willing to make adjustments if things aren't working. Bud likes to **** around and see what works, other teams gameplan all season for us. Nurse imo is that guy, I was impressed with him in 2019 and Toronto has always been a headache like the Spoelstra Heat.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#189 » by MuckyFingers » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:07 pm

skones wrote:Anyone who wants a "hardass" doesn't know how this league works. It's not 1988. Players do not respond well to that ****.

The New York Knicks have a different take.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#190 » by CharityStripe34 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:09 pm

tydett wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:You may as well just trade Giannis now because your championship window in his last physical prime years (29-32) is slammed shut.


I do think this is a good point, but also worth considering is that Giannis can transition to career preservation mode if we took the incredibly risky, unlikely opportunity to get young. Giannis could be more of a Kareem long term, focusing on developing his 8-15 foot game while avoiding the punishment of his current playstyle, hopefully extending his career and allowing the Bucks to develop a core that doesn't have Giannis as the focal point, but as a super duper defensive vet who teaches the young guys how to win.

*the above is a thought exercise of a disappointed, sad fan - please don't take super seriously.


Gianni becoming more of a full-time PF with the occasional transition explosion and playmaking is what will also lift this ceiling. He's made great strides in his game (especially his passing) and he's amazing, but he just needs to simply focus on a solid, finesse game. Hook shots, up-and-unders, basic counters and the occasional mid-range J (and FTs most glaringly). If the Bucks can land a good playmaking G to free both he and Jrue up from ball-handling duties, he can simply run the floor and get to his spots. With a new coach he probably won't be consistently trailing the play at the top of the key, and he'll be used in a more deliberate/structured way (one would hope).

He's 28 and I think he has 4-5 more prime years physically. He'll probably hover at the 65-70 game a year mark in the RS and still be load-managed here and there, but a new coaching staff has to have a clear message to Horst and to Giannis himself to try and unlock him as much as possible. That means a new philosophy of player development and not just integrating the roster into a basic system. He has a European mentality of listening to and respecting his coaches, so the next hire is going to be incredibly crucial for him and the team in general (obviously). It needs to be someone who's not scared to sit dudes down and demand accountability as well as improvement.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#191 » by Wonka » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:09 pm

Wake me up from my Bucks related coma when Bud is officially canned. Thanks!

Have a feeling we deploy virtually the same roster with a new coach. God only knows if that’s the right move but it seems like we are pretty constrained into our core at the moment.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#192 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:10 pm

Buds definitely a good coach. But I think he's also a coach who's very set in his ways and his system and guys like that have a shelf life. After a while opponents get too familiar with how to counter that system.

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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#193 » by skones » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:10 pm

MuckyFingers wrote:
skones wrote:Anyone who wants a "hardass" doesn't know how this league works. It's not 1988. Players do not respond well to that ****.

The New York Knicks have a different take.


How many people do you know come home from work and say, "wow, my boss is a real hardass, I love it?" In 2023, what we do, is call that a toxic work environment.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#194 » by Milbucks96 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:12 pm

It’s too early in the offseason for me to really sit down and think of realistic moves but moving on from Jrue should be the next move after the inevitable coach move.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#195 » by machu46 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:12 pm

FrieAaron wrote:
BucksRule18 wrote:The 2 positives I have for Nurse is that the only year he had a legitimate superstar on his team, he won the chip. Secondly, unlike Bud, he actually changed strategies on how to guard Giannis after 2 games, which completely changed the course of the series.


I want a hard ass for this team. Especially if it looks more similar to last nights squad than we're hoping. Someone that will call dudes out if they're being dumbasses. If Nurse is that guy, OK.


Scott Skiles FTW. It just wasn't the right time for him the first time. Or same could be said for Kidd; he's just what Giannis needs.
trwi7 wrote:**** me deep, Giannis. ****. Me. Deep.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#196 » by FrieAaron » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:13 pm

skones wrote:Anyone who wants a "hardass" doesn't know how this league works. It's not 1988. Players do not respond well to that ****.


I'm not saying like Jason Kidd singling players out and making them do drills, taking away vacations, etc. Just someone who will hold the players accountable and take control away from them a little bit.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#197 » by chonestown » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:14 pm

MuckyFingers wrote:
skones wrote:Anyone who wants a "hardass" doesn't know how this league works. It's not 1988. Players do not respond well to that ****.

The New York Knicks have a different take.


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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#198 » by CharityStripe34 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:14 pm

skones wrote:
MuckyFingers wrote:
skones wrote:Anyone who wants a "hardass" doesn't know how this league works. It's not 1988. Players do not respond well to that ****.

The New York Knicks have a different take.


How many people do you know come home from work and say, "wow, my boss is a real hardass, I love it?" In 2023, what we do, is call that a toxic work environment.


Certain plays do like to be coached hard. Hardass is a crude term, but the great coaches are usually tough and not afraid to hold dudes accountable.

As for possible moves/trades, Horst will have to take a chance on 1-2 younger guys at some point who they think would thrive alongside Gianni and improve. We can't solely rely on rehashed vets, anymore.
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#199 » by skones » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:16 pm

CharityStripe34 wrote:
skones wrote:
MuckyFingers wrote:The New York Knicks have a different take.


How many people do you know come home from work and say, "wow, my boss is a real hardass, I love it?" In 2023, what we do, is call that a toxic work environment.


Certain plays do like to be coached hard. Hardass is a crude term, but the great coaches are usually tough and not afraid to hold dudes accountable.

As for possible moves/trades, Horst will have to take a chance on 1-2 younger guys at some point who they think would thrive alongside Gianni and improve. We can't solely rely on rehashed vets, anymore.


There are PLENTY of ways to hold folks accountable without being a "hardass."
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Re: Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news and re-tool discussion 

Post#200 » by JayMKE » Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:20 pm

I'm pretty confident Bud would land on his feet and have success elsewhere with his system so I don't think he's a bad coach relatively at least in the regular season but come playoff time the system doesn't work & his flaws become fatal. Bud could probably go coach Orlando to 45 wins jacking up 3s and playing random. Bucks don't need a system coach like that.
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