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[jbk1234]

Watching this Heat v. Bucks game and concluding that home court advantage is wildly overrated in the postseason. You steal one of the first two on the road, take care of business at home, and you're in control of the series. Odds are that either the Heat or the Knicks will be in the ECF.

Also shows how important it is to have wings who can put the ball in the bucket.

Ideally, we get a SF who can shoot this summer, but you also need shooting off the bench, as well as a coach who appreciates that spacing can be just as important as defense. We're kind of 0-3 on that front.

[JujitsuFlip]

Watching this Heat v. Bucks game and concluding that home court advantage is wildly overrated in the postseason. You steal one of the first two on the road, take care of business at home, and you're in control of the series. Odds are that either the Heat or the Knicks will be in the ECF.

Also shows how important it is to have wings who can put the ball in the bucket.

Ideally, we get a SF who can shoot this summer, but you also need shooting off the bench, as well as a coach who appreciates that spacing can be just as important as defense. We're kind of 0-3 on that front.

Yup, why I said if they're gonna go get one or two 3&D guys this summer, it only matters if JB will actually play them. Koby could make all the right signings from a fit perspective and if JB refuses to play them, it's irrelevant.

[jbk1234]

Also shows how important it is to have wings who can put the ball in the bucket.

Ideally, we get a SF who can shoot this summer, but you also need shooting off the bench, as well as a coach who appreciates that spacing can be just as important as defense. We're kind of 0-3 on that front.

Yup, why I said if they're gonna go get one or two 3&D guys this summer, it only matters if JB will actually play them. Koby could make all the right signings from a fit perspective and if JB refuses to play them, it's irrelevant.

Yeah, JBB may survive a first round exit, but at a minimum, there needs to be a pretty serious talk about the importance of spacing going forwarded, and an acknowledgement by JBB that he misjudged it. If JBB's response sounds like one of his post-game pressers where just laments that we didn't play *our game,* then the Cavs just need to move on.

[JonFromVA]

Ideally, we get a SF who can shoot this summer, but you also need shooting off the bench, as well as a coach who appreciates that spacing can be just as important as defense. We're kind of 0-3 on that front.

Yup, why I said if they're gonna go get one or two 3&D guys this summer, it only matters if JB will actually play them. Koby could make all the right signings from a fit perspective and if JB refuses to play them, it's irrelevant.

Yeah, JBB may survive a first round exit, but at a minimum, there needs to be a pretty serious talk about the importance of spacing going forwarded, and an acknowledgement by JBB that he misjudged it. If JBB's response sounds like one of his post-game pressers where just laments that we didn't play *our game,* then the Cavs just need to move on.

He is ultimately constrained by the roster, where the Mitchell trade left it, and the injuries we're dealing with.

Some of us had high hopes for Dean Wade being able to step-in and provide much of what Lauri brought last year, and he's been a big fat zero since hurting his shoulder in early December.

And for those wondering about Kevin, he's seem to be back to his old trick of dragging down the lineup he's part of. Jimmy Butler goes off for 55pts, but ends up only +4. Kevin who started and only played with Jimmy was -6. It was Lowry, Robinson, and Martin who ended up with the big +/- numbers off the bench in their game 4. The Bucks have a terrific defense ... so .. why are those guys suddenly making 3pters again?

Give JBB shooters who can defend, and everybody is going to be happy, give or take the real stuff worthy of criticism such as his ability to prepare his team for what they're facing and adjust on the fly.

[jbk1234]

Yup, why I said if they're gonna go get one or two 3&D guys this summer, it only matters if JB will actually play them. Koby could make all the right signings from a fit perspective and if JB refuses to play them, it's irrelevant.

Yeah, JBB may survive a first round exit, but at a minimum, there needs to be a pretty serious talk about the importance of spacing going forwarded, and an acknowledgement by JBB that he misjudged it. If JBB's response sounds like one of his post-game pressers where just laments that we didn't play *our game,* then the Cavs just need to move on.

He is ultimately constrained by the roster, where the Mitchell trade left it, and the injuries we're dealing with.

Some of us had high hopes for Dean Wade being able to step-in and provide much of what Lauri brought last year, and he's been a big fat zero since hurting his shoulder in early December.

And for those wondering about Kevin, he's seem to be back to his old trick of dragging down the lineup he's part of. Jimmy Butler goes off for 55pts, but ends up only +4. Kevin who started and only played with Jimmy was -6. It was Lowry, Robinson, and Martin who ended up with the big +/- numbers off the bench in their game 4. The Bucks have a terrific defense ... so .. why are those guys suddenly making 3pters again?

Give JBB shooters who can defend, and everybody is going to be happy, give or take the real stuff worthy of criticism such as his ability to prepare his team for what they're facing and adjust on the fly.

Yeah, every NBA coach would like shooters who can defend 1-10, and every NBA coach finds themselves having to choose between the two and balance lineups accordingly.

Also, Dean Wade saw the floor 7 minutes in Game 1. How we been doing since then?

[jbk1234]

K. Love about to a second Cavs coach fired and he doesn't even play here anymore.

[JonFromVA]

K. Love about to a second Cavs coach fired and he doesn't even play here anymore.

If JBB was just looking for someone who could deal with the physicality, he could have played Lopez - but he's not part of our core and this was always more about development and evaluation than finding a fix by playing guys who won't be on the team long-term.

[jbk1234]

K. Love about to a second Cavs coach fired and he doesn't even play here anymore.

If JBB was just looking for someone who could deal with the physicality, he could have played Lopez - but he's not part of our core and this was always more about development and evaluation than finding a fix by playing guys who won't be on the team long-term.

I have a few issues with explaining away JBB's shortcomings as development and evaluation: (1) Why did we trade for Mitchell if we're still approaching this as a rebuild; (2) how long does JBB get to evaluate what's not working and adapt; (3) why do non-shooters get exponentially more minutes to evaluate; and (4) every playoff team plays guys in the playoffs who aren't necessarily part of the long-term plan. Mostly because winning is the goal.

[JonFromVA]

K. Love about to a second Cavs coach fired and he doesn't even play here anymore.

If JBB was just looking for someone who could deal with the physicality, he could have played Lopez - but he's not part of our core and this was always more about development and evaluation than finding a fix by playing guys who won't be on the team long-term.

I have a few issues with explaining away JBB's shortcomings as development and evaluation: (1) Why did we trade for Mitchell if we're still approaching this as a rebuild; (2) how long does JBB get to evaluate what's not working and adapt; (3) why do non-shooters get exponentially more minutes to evaluate; and (4) every playoff team plays guys in the playoffs who aren't necessarily part of the long-term plan. Mostly because winning is the goal.

The Mitchell trade was about establishing our core, and I think you'll find most contenders play their core in the playoffs. So, Thibs stuck with RJ Barrett even though he looked pretty shaky in the first couple games, and JBB stuck with Allen and Mobley even though they were getting pushed around throughout the series.

He could have used Lopez when one of those guys were sitting, but he preferred to go small. I actually feel pretty good about Isaac going in to next season because of how he played against the Knicks, but our problems were obviously far deeper than slowing down Brunson and Randle.

If this truly was all JBB's fault, the players will have him fired. If they buy in to that this is a process where making the playoffs is just the first step for all of them, they will stick with it and do what it takes to not repeat their errors.

We were well on our way to becoming a 50-win team before trading for Mitchell, so, our draft picks weren't going to be especially exciting. We can use them to help fill a hole now rather than take a gamble that we might be able to fill a bigger hole somewhere down the line. And even with the Mitchell trade, we'll be able to do that every other year starting in 2024.

[jasonxxx102]

If JBB was just looking for someone who could deal with the physicality, he could have played Lopez - but he's not part of our core and this was always more about development and evaluation than finding a fix by playing guys who won't be on the team long-term.

I have a few issues with explaining away JBB's shortcomings as development and evaluation: (1) Why did we trade for Mitchell if we're still approaching this as a rebuild; (2) how long does JBB get to evaluate what's not working and adapt; (3) why do non-shooters get exponentially more minutes to evaluate; and (4) every playoff team plays guys in the playoffs who aren't necessarily part of the long-term plan. Mostly because winning is the goal.

If this truly was all JBB's fault, the players will have him fired. If they buy in to that this is a process where making the playoffs is just the first step for all of them, they will stick with it and do what it takes to not repeat their errors.

But that’s not how it works unless you’ve got a team full of vet super stars.

The coach has to create a system that maximizes the talent they have an JB clearly did not do that. I’m not saying it’s all his fault but a significant part of it is.

[jbk1234]

If JBB was just looking for someone who could deal with the physicality, he could have played Lopez - but he's not part of our core and this was always more about development and evaluation than finding a fix by playing guys who won't be on the team long-term.

I have a few issues with explaining away JBB's shortcomings as development and evaluation: (1) Why did we trade for Mitchell if we're still approaching this as a rebuild; (2) how long does JBB get to evaluate what's not working and adapt; (3) why do non-shooters get exponentially more minutes to evaluate; and (4) every playoff team plays guys in the playoffs who aren't necessarily part of the long-term plan. Mostly because winning is the goal.

The Mitchell trade was about establishing our core, and I think you'll find most contenders play their core in the playoffs. So, Thibs stuck with RJ Barrett even though he looked pretty shaky in the first couple games, and JBB stuck with Allen and Mobley even though they were getting pushed around throughout the series.

He could have used Lopez when one of those guys were sitting, but he preferred to go small. I actually feel pretty good about Isaac going in to next season because of how he played against the Knicks, but our problems were obviously far deeper than slowing down Brunson and Randle.

If this truly was all JBB's fault, the players will have him fired. If they buy in to that this is a process where making the playoffs is just the first step for all of them, they will stick with it and do what it takes to not repeat their errors.

We were well on our way to becoming a 50-win team before trading for Mitchell, so, our draft picks weren't going to be especially exciting. We can use them to help fill a hole now rather than take a gamble that we might be able to fill a bigger hole somewhere down the line. And even with the Mitchell trade, we'll be able to do that every other year starting in 2024.

I mean Mitchell and Allen have the option of leaving in two years and the Cavs are a year away from the possibility of having to trade both of them rather than losing them for nothing so I'm much less sanguine about averaging less than 100 ppg in a playoff series we lost in five games despite having home court advantage.

But more than that, he sounds increasingly stubborn in his public comments to point of being unable to process information that doesn't confirm his prior biases. Rigidity scares me. If something isn't working, adapt. Better still are coaches who can predict that their preferences won't work based on matchups and have alternative plans in place.

Blaming a poor performance, against a much deeper team, on conditioning, strikes me as someone who is incapable of acknowledging fault or his own mistakes, and that's not a guy you want leading your team.

[ijspeelman]

I have a few issues with explaining away JBB's shortcomings as development and evaluation: (1) Why did we trade for Mitchell if we're still approaching this as a rebuild; (2) how long does JBB get to evaluate what's not working and adapt; (3) why do non-shooters get exponentially more minutes to evaluate; and (4) every playoff team plays guys in the playoffs who aren't necessarily part of the long-term plan. Mostly because winning is the goal.

The Mitchell trade was about establishing our core, and I think you'll find most contenders play their core in the playoffs. So, Thibs stuck with RJ Barrett even though he looked pretty shaky in the first couple games, and JBB stuck with Allen and Mobley even though they were getting pushed around throughout the series.

He could have used Lopez when one of those guys were sitting, but he preferred to go small. I actually feel pretty good about Isaac going in to next season because of how he played against the Knicks, but our problems were obviously far deeper than slowing down Brunson and Randle.

If this truly was all JBB's fault, the players will have him fired. If they buy in to that this is a process where making the playoffs is just the first step for all of them, they will stick with it and do what it takes to not repeat their errors.

We were well on our way to becoming a 50-win team before trading for Mitchell, so, our draft picks weren't going to be especially exciting. We can use them to help fill a hole now rather than take a gamble that we might be able to fill a bigger hole somewhere down the line. And even with the Mitchell trade, we'll be able to do that every other year starting in 2024.

I mean Mitchell and Allen have the option of leaving in two years and the Cavs are a year away from the possibility of having to trade both of them rather than losing them for nothing so I'm much less sanguine about averaging less than 100 ppg in a playoff series we lost in five games despite having home court advantage.

But more than that, he sounds increasingly stubborn in his public comments to point of being unable to process information that doesn't confirm his prior biases. Rigidity scares me. If something isn't working, adapt. Better still are coaches who can predict that their preferences won't work based on matchups and have alternative plans in place.

Blaming a poor performance, against a much deeper team, on conditioning, strikes me as someone who is incapable of acknowledging fault or his own mistakes, and that's not a guy you want leading your team.

Coaches tend to not give real answers while addressing the media so we should take that into consideration.

JB also said we'd have a set starting 3 during the season and switched it multiple times. Sometimes you just don't show your full hand.

Yes, its a little odder when it comes to these playoffs where accountability is in mind, but he's most likely trying to save face for the players and his coaching staff.

Maybe I'm looking into it too much. A lot of his answers, if they are his genuine thoughts, are pretty awful lol.

[JujitsuFlip]

If JBB was just looking for someone who could deal with the physicality, he could have played Lopez - but he's not part of our core and this was always more about development and evaluation than finding a fix by playing guys who won't be on the team long-term.

I have a few issues with explaining away JBB's shortcomings as development and evaluation: (1) Why did we trade for Mitchell if we're still approaching this as a rebuild; (2) how long does JBB get to evaluate what's not working and adapt; (3) why do non-shooters get exponentially more minutes to evaluate; and (4) every playoff team plays guys in the playoffs who aren't necessarily part of the long-term plan. Mostly because winning is the goal.

The Mitchell trade was about establishing our core, and I think you'll find most contenders play their core in the playoffs. So, Thibs stuck with RJ Barrett even though he looked pretty shaky in the first couple games, and JBB stuck with Allen and Mobley even though they were getting pushed around throughout the series.

He could have used Lopez when one of those guys were sitting, but he preferred to go small. I actually feel pretty good about Isaac going in to next season because of how he played against the Knicks, but our problems were obviously far deeper than slowing down Brunson and Randle.

If this truly was all JBB's fault, the players will have him fired. If they buy in to that this is a process where making the playoffs is just the first step for all of them, they will stick with it and do what it takes to not repeat their errors.

We were well on our way to becoming a 50-win team before trading for Mitchell, so, our draft picks weren't going to be especially exciting. We can use them to help fill a hole now rather than take a gamble that we might be able to fill a bigger hole somewhere down the line. And even with the Mitchell trade, we'll be able to do that every other year starting in 2024.

I've been telling you for almost 8 months now, it is not about drafting players with those picks. It is the flexibility of having those assets to use in trades. Cavs have next to zero assets to upgrade the roster, that is the issue.

[JonFromVA]

I have a few issues with explaining away JBB's shortcomings as development and evaluation: (1) Why did we trade for Mitchell if we're still approaching this as a rebuild; (2) how long does JBB get to evaluate what's not working and adapt; (3) why do non-shooters get exponentially more minutes to evaluate; and (4) every playoff team plays guys in the playoffs who aren't necessarily part of the long-term plan. Mostly because winning is the goal.

If this truly was all JBB's fault, the players will have him fired. If they buy in to that this is a process where making the playoffs is just the first step for all of them, they will stick with it and do what it takes to not repeat their errors.

But that’s not how it works unless you’ve got a team full of vet super stars.

The coach has to create a system that maximizes the talent they have an JB clearly did not do that. I’m not saying it’s all his fault but a significant part of it is.

He got a lot out of this collection of players, it's presumptive to believe that somebody could have gotten more given the limitations of the roster. Every coach makes mistakes, heck Ty Lue was still letting Mike Longabardi run his defense right up until game 3 in the 2016 finals.

But if the players feel they were misused, they will get him fired. Not what I'm hearing so far ...

[JonFromVA]

I have a few issues with explaining away JBB's shortcomings as development and evaluation: (1) Why did we trade for Mitchell if we're still approaching this as a rebuild; (2) how long does JBB get to evaluate what's not working and adapt; (3) why do non-shooters get exponentially more minutes to evaluate; and (4) every playoff team plays guys in the playoffs who aren't necessarily part of the long-term plan. Mostly because winning is the goal.

The Mitchell trade was about establishing our core, and I think you'll find most contenders play their core in the playoffs. So, Thibs stuck with RJ Barrett even though he looked pretty shaky in the first couple games, and JBB stuck with Allen and Mobley even though they were getting pushed around throughout the series.

He could have used Lopez when one of those guys were sitting, but he preferred to go small. I actually feel pretty good about Isaac going in to next season because of how he played against the Knicks, but our problems were obviously far deeper than slowing down Brunson and Randle.

If this truly was all JBB's fault, the players will have him fired. If they buy in to that this is a process where making the playoffs is just the first step for all of them, they will stick with it and do what it takes to not repeat their errors.

We were well on our way to becoming a 50-win team before trading for Mitchell, so, our draft picks weren't going to be especially exciting. We can use them to help fill a hole now rather than take a gamble that we might be able to fill a bigger hole somewhere down the line. And even with the Mitchell trade, we'll be able to do that every other year starting in 2024.

I mean Mitchell and Allen have the option of leaving in two years and the Cavs are a year away from the possibility of having to trade both of them rather than losing them for nothing so I'm much less sanguine about averaging less than 100 ppg in a playoff series we lost in five games despite having home court advantage.

But more than that, he sounds increasingly stubborn in his public comments to point of being unable to process information that doesn't confirm his prior biases. Rigidity scares me. If something isn't working, adapt. Better still are coaches who can predict that their preferences won't work based on matchups and have alternative plans in place.

Blaming a poor performance, against a much deeper team, on conditioning, strikes me as someone who is incapable of acknowledging fault or his own mistakes, and that's not a guy you want leading your team.

Yes, JBB is pretty stubborn, but he did give the guys something they can both point to and work on over the Summer. He's not actually trying to prove anything to you. Mike Brown used to take the blame for everything after a loss (just to keep the focus off his players) and fans lapped it up and took it as his admission of guilt.

[jasonxxx102]

If this truly was all JBB's fault, the players will have him fired. If they buy in to that this is a process where making the playoffs is just the first step for all of them, they will stick with it and do what it takes to not repeat their errors.

But that’s not how it works unless you’ve got a team full of vet super stars.

The coach has to create a system that maximizes the talent they have an JB clearly did not do that. I’m not saying it’s all his fault but a significant part of it is.

He got a lot out of this collection of players, it's presumptive to believe that somebody could have gotten more given the limitations of the roster. Every coach makes mistakes, heck Ty Lue was still letting Mike Longabardi run his defense right up until game 3 in the 2016 finals.

But if the players feel they were misused, they will get him fired. Not what I'm hearing so far ...

Did he?

Donovan Mitchell had a great regular season but we knew what he was.

Was Garland that much better? Mobley? Allen? None of those guys were any better this year.

Mobley was better during the 2nd half of the season but it had absolutely nothing to do with JB. He was just being more aggressive.

Garland was exactly the same. Jarrett Allen was worse this year. Okoro, exactly the same. Cedi, the same.

Who got better this year? JB got the exact same amount out of the team this year as he did last year there was no development

[JonFromVA]

I have a few issues with explaining away JBB's shortcomings as development and evaluation: (1) Why did we trade for Mitchell if we're still approaching this as a rebuild; (2) how long does JBB get to evaluate what's not working and adapt; (3) why do non-shooters get exponentially more minutes to evaluate; and (4) every playoff team plays guys in the playoffs who aren't necessarily part of the long-term plan. Mostly because winning is the goal.

The Mitchell trade was about establishing our core, and I think you'll find most contenders play their core in the playoffs. So, Thibs stuck with RJ Barrett even though he looked pretty shaky in the first couple games, and JBB stuck with Allen and Mobley even though they were getting pushed around throughout the series.

He could have used Lopez when one of those guys were sitting, but he preferred to go small. I actually feel pretty good about Isaac going in to next season because of how he played against the Knicks, but our problems were obviously far deeper than slowing down Brunson and Randle.

If this truly was all JBB's fault, the players will have him fired. If they buy in to that this is a process where making the playoffs is just the first step for all of them, they will stick with it and do what it takes to not repeat their errors.

We were well on our way to becoming a 50-win team before trading for Mitchell, so, our draft picks weren't going to be especially exciting. We can use them to help fill a hole now rather than take a gamble that we might be able to fill a bigger hole somewhere down the line. And even with the Mitchell trade, we'll be able to do that every other year starting in 2024.

I've been telling you for almost 8 months now, it is not about drafting players with those picks. It is the flexibility of having those assets to use in trades. Cavs have next to zero assets to upgrade the roster, that is the issue.

The expected draft position also affects the value of those picks in trade, but personally I'm more interested in improving the team long-term via the draft and player development. Get those Travers, Diops, Mobleys, and Diakites in the pipeline and something good should come of it. Undrafted picks got us Stevens and Wade. We will hopefully do better with those 2nd rounders from last year, and hopefully even better if we hold on to our firsts starting in 2024.

Look at the Knicks and all their first round picks. They got Cam Reddish with one and then traded him with another 1st for Josh Hart who is going to be a free-agent this Summer unless he goes insane and doesn't decline his player option. Sure, they can keep Hart but he's going to cost them and the 28 yr old for some reason has been real hesitant to fire up 3's this season.

He'd be a nice depth player and perhaps a short-term starter, especially in the short-term before Mobley, Allen, and Mitchell get their next deals; but pipelining affordable depth should be the goal, IMO.

[JonFromVA]

But that’s not how it works unless you’ve got a team full of vet super stars.

The coach has to create a system that maximizes the talent they have an JB clearly did not do that. I’m not saying it’s all his fault but a significant part of it is.

He got a lot out of this collection of players, it's presumptive to believe that somebody could have gotten more given the limitations of the roster. Every coach makes mistakes, heck Ty Lue was still letting Mike Longabardi run his defense right up until game 3 in the 2016 finals.

But if the players feel they were misused, they will get him fired. Not what I'm hearing so far ...

Did he?

Donovan Mitchell had a great regular season but we knew what he was.

Was Garland that much better? Mobley? Allen? None of those guys were any better this year.

Mobley was better during the 2nd half of the season but it had absolutely nothing to do with JB. He was just being more aggressive.

Garland was exactly the same. Jarrett Allen was worse this year. Okoro, exactly the same. Cedi, the same.

Who got better this year? JB got the exact same amount out of the team this year as he did last year there was no development

You're asking a different question: did he make them better, did he help them improve, etc.

What I said is he got a lot of out of them ... and we don't need to look beyond 51 wins for evidence of that. Feel free to review the pre-season predictions for the season from non-homers like me.

[jasonxxx102]

He got a lot out of this collection of players, it's presumptive to believe that somebody could have gotten more given the limitations of the roster. Every coach makes mistakes, heck Ty Lue was still letting Mike Longabardi run his defense right up until game 3 in the 2016 finals.

But if the players feel they were misused, they will get him fired. Not what I'm hearing so far ...

Did he?

Donovan Mitchell had a great regular season but we knew what he was.

Was Garland that much better? Mobley? Allen? None of those guys were any better this year.

Mobley was better during the 2nd half of the season but it had absolutely nothing to do with JB. He was just being more aggressive.

Garland was exactly the same. Jarrett Allen was worse this year. Okoro, exactly the same. Cedi, the same.

Who got better this year? JB got the exact same amount out of the team this year as he did last year there was no development

You're asking a different question: did he make them better, did he help them improve, etc.

What I said is he got a lot of out of them ... and we don't need to look beyond 51 wins for evidence of that. Feel free to review the pre-season predictions for the season from non-homers like me.

They matched the Vegas win total post Mitchell trade.

The entire point of a coach is for the team to improve and develop each year. Otherwise what is he there for?

This team didn’t change at all from last season and I guarantee they won’t next year with JB either. The only difference will be that we will waste a whole year before the org stops being stubborn and fires him

[jbk1234]

He got a lot out of this collection of players, it's presumptive to believe that somebody could have gotten more given the limitations of the roster. Every coach makes mistakes, heck Ty Lue was still letting Mike Longabardi run his defense right up until game 3 in the 2016 finals.

But if the players feel they were misused, they will get him fired. Not what I'm hearing so far ...

Did he?

Donovan Mitchell had a great regular season but we knew what he was.

Was Garland that much better? Mobley? Allen? None of those guys were any better this year.

Mobley was better during the 2nd half of the season but it had absolutely nothing to do with JB. He was just being more aggressive.

Garland was exactly the same. Jarrett Allen was worse this year. Okoro, exactly the same. Cedi, the same.

Who got better this year? JB got the exact same amount out of the team this year as he did last year there was no development

You're asking a different question: did he make them better, did he help them improve, etc.

What I said is he got a lot of out of them ... and we don't need to look beyond 51 wins for evidence of that. Feel free to review the pre-season predictions for the season from non-homers like me.

And maybe therein lies the rub, did we trade for Mitchell to be a good regular season team that runs our starters into the floor on a nightly basis only to be a first round out?

How different is that from who we were last year?

Is Mitchell sticking around for those types of outcomes?