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2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1381 » by bwgood77 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:15 pm

Saberestar wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
JJJ already won DPOTY. Like last week.

I like actually like Lopez and would welcome him on our team if this trade happened. MIL needs a change-up in some way. I actually think they can get more for Jrue then DA, but the value isn't off as much as you think it is.

Edit: How about Capela/Collins for Ayton/Shamet? :wink:


All those players need a new scenery so it makes perfect sense. Slim get Ishbia on the phone immediately.

I prefer Ayton/Shamet over Capela/Collins.

We will see how this season ends, at the moment we are in the middle of a playoff run and everything can happen. I wouldn't make big changes if we play the Finals.


I could see them open to trading Ayton but at the same time, there just may not be a very good deal out there. He's had a worse season than his last two except his elite play in February. But he still pulls a lot of gravity, is among screen leaders, and can stay on the floor against most any lineup. I think at some point he gets his efficiency and defense back up too and adds some more to his game.

The thing is, his value is at an all time low right now...now because of play, that will be when the fanbase (and probably the team) will want to trade him, but you are also likely not getting a very good return.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1382 » by Saberestar » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:20 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
No. Lopez might win DPOY and can hit the 3 opening the lane for Giannis. Jrue is nearly all NBA if he isn't. I am not sure the Bucks would be terribly enthused about a Lopez for Ayton swap, though would probably do it for age.

I think you think Ayton has far more value than he does. Zion, AD, Jrue and Lopez, etc.

Yeah I was gonna say I’d even take just Lopez for Ayton honestly, he’s elite on defense and can space the floor. Big reason people are screaming for Budenholzer’s head is because he took Lopez out on that Butler game tying shot at the end of the 4th which Lopez likely would’ve prevented.

Bucks fans don’t seem interested in Ayton either (see below) which makes sense. Nobody wants a C on a max contract unless it’s Jokic or Embiid.

viewtopic.php?p=105752308#p105752308


Maybe a young Brook Lopez, but he's 35. However, as I mention that, maybe Ishbia actually would want that, so maybe you will get your wish.

I doubt it.

Brook Lopez isn't a 13 × All Star, 2 × Finals MVP, 4 Scoring Champ, ... so Ishbia wouldn't do it.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1383 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:21 pm

Brook Lopez is also a free agent.

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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1384 » by Slim Charless » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:23 pm

Saberestar wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
JJJ already won DPOTY. Like last week.

I like actually like Lopez and would welcome him on our team if this trade happened. MIL needs a change-up in some way. I actually think they can get more for Jrue then DA, but the value isn't off as much as you think it is.

Edit: How about Capela/Collins for Ayton/Shamet? :wink:


All those players need a new scenery so it makes perfect sense. Slim get Ishbia on the phone immediately.

I prefer Ayton/Shamet over Capela/Collins.

We will see how this season ends, at the moment we are in the middle of a playoff run and everything can happen. I wouldn't make big changes if we play the Finals.


I made that post as a wink-wink joke to BW as he mentioned "some posters" bring Capela/Collins for DA up alot. Obviously meaning me.

In reality, we need to see how this ends. There's a lot going on in the NBA as that MIL loss can shift the whole league for years to come. Giannis leaving (possible, not probable) and the coaching thing with Bud. Who really knows MIL was the favorite betting wise and they just lost to a #8 seed....in my opinion that's the biggest upset in NBA history. Even more than the Denver Seattle one from 92 as at least the Sonics won 2 games. We have as good a chance as anyone to win the chip.

Let's see how Tavares handles all of this.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1385 » by Saberestar » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:26 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
All those players need a new scenery so it makes perfect sense. Slim get Ishbia on the phone immediately.

I prefer Ayton/Shamet over Capela/Collins.

We will see how this season ends, at the moment we are in the middle of a playoff run and everything can happen. I wouldn't make big changes if we play the Finals.


I could see them open to trading Ayton but at the same time, there just may not be a very good deal out there. He's had a worse season than his last two except his elite play in February. But he still pulls a lot of gravity, is among screen leaders, and can stay on the floor against most any lineup. I think at some point he gets his efficiency and defense back up too and adds some more to his game.

The thing is, his value is at an all time low right now...now because of play, that will be when the fanbase (and probably the team) will want to trade him, but you are also likely not getting a very good return.

I think (and hope) that we aren't gonna trade him.

We need him to be an elite team. His gravity around the rim is a huge problem for our rivals, some people probably don't want to admit it but it's what it is.

He played very well in the last two games and I am excited to watch him against Jokic and the Nuggets.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1386 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:52 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
sunskerr wrote:I think we look to trade BOTH Paul and Ayton. We need depth and Ayton is the most "movable" (and even then, the rest of the league may not have too much interest) piece we have that may be able to return two rotation level pieces. And if there is an option to deal Paul we will do it.

I don't think it makes sense to only move one, but I doubt Paul returns much value outside of like one role player. I think we look to get a guard, wing, and center by moving both of them.

The intricacies are along the lines of what combinations of positions are available or easier to obtain by trading Ayton vs Paul. For example is it easier to get a wing by trading Paul or get a PG by trading Ayton, or if you trade Ayton for a PG and C but what if you can't find a wing for Paul, etc..


I wonder what the Lakers do with Russell. They let him walk they lose the cap space. I only bring him up because I think the Lakers are about the only team that would have interest in Paul, unless a team simply had a player who's salary they wanted to dump and they knew with Paul's team option in 24-25 he is basically an expiring.

As for Ayton, I have no idea who would have interest. I really can't think of any teams. Most teams I thought before I don't know what we'd get.

The only possiblity that pops into my head is if Charlotte doesn't get Victor, a Rozier/Richards for Ayton/Shamet swap. Richards is solid defensively but can't shoot. He can finish but from 3-10 ft was 28% and outside of 10 ft only had 10 shots this year.

I don't see a better deal than that, or any sort of Capela/Collins swap that gets brought up all the time but some poster.

Cue GoK to take this deal and add a couple of picks and a young prospect to our side.


It's like you know me or something!....lol. :tooth
But really, I don't think it could be that far fetched or unreasonable IF:

1- Ayton balls out in the playoffs.
2- Certain teams in the lottery that might be thin or lacking experience at the 5 miss out on Wemby.
3- What the package return might be in terms of contract fillers/ picks, etc.

Overall, I've worked to make my more recent trades representative of Ayton's current perceived value. For example with Charlotte, IF they don't land Wemby, then something along the lines of Ayton for Rozier/Williams/ Denver 23' 1st/ Utah 23' 2nd should be more than reasonable. They'd be keeping their high lotto pick and would really only be giving up the 27th pick (Denver) and the 39th pick (Utah) and could still look to bring back Bridges as well given their cap situation next season. A starting 5 of Ball/ Lotto wing/ Hayward/ Bridges/ Ayton is very solid and likely a solid playoff team too. :wink:

As for other teams that still might have interest in Ayton, again, I think it largely depends on the 3 factors I mentioned above. But I can reasonably see maybe a team like Houston (IF they miss out on Wemby), or maybe San Antonio (IF they miss out on Wemby), or maybe Dallas, or Detroit (with either really needing to make big moves)!! Maybe even the Flakers of course for the right deal??

Houston-
Ayton for Eason/ Martin Jr/ Washington (or Nix)/ 20th pick? Or something along those lines perhaps. Adding Udoke signals they're trying to compete more and advance competitively. So keeping their high lotto and only giving up other complimentary young pieces and a mid-late first for Ayton is solid value. They'll have to spend anyways to get to the salary floor. So taking Ayton's salary back isn't that daunting for them.

San Antonio-
Ayton for Mcdermott/ Collins/ Bassey/ SA 23' 2nd (#32)/ Charlotte 24' 1st. San Antonio is in a similar situation to Houston having tons of available cap space and will need to take on salary anyways to reach the salary floor. Getting Ayton (whom Pop and Duncan) could turn into a monster) for only two semi rotation players (Mcdermott/ Collins) and a second round bench big (Bassey) and a future first and a 2nd would still be a solid value win for them and us too. They'd keep their high lotto this year and could advance their core immensely from doing this.

Detroit-
Ayton (or Ayton/ Shamet) for Burks/ Wiseman/ Hayes (or Stewart)/ Det 23' 2nd (31)/ Detroit 25' 1st. Troy Weaver has already indicated that the pistons want to get better and compete for a playoff spot. This trade would help them advance their core and become more competitive towards that. They could field a team loaded with top picks while still maintaining cap flexibility by swapping salary with us. A starting 5 of Cunningham/ Ivey/ Bogdanovic/ Bagley ( or Stewart) / Ayton. Would be pretty strong and a solid playoff contender. We could choose to keep or decline any of the three salaried players as all are team options (depending upon our priorities)??

Dallas- (I'd hate to do this for many reasons) but..........................
The easiest trade would be of course Ayton for Irving. But IF that's not on the table, And he intends on resigning with Dallas, then you'd have to be looking at something like Ayton for Bullock/Kleber/ Hardy/ Dallas 23' 1st ( 10th pick). The 10th pick would be essential in the deal (for value) We would then buyout Shamet and look to pursue Poetl in free agency. Honestly though it's highly unlikely we'd do this trade because it's Dallas, and their a conference rival after all.

Flakers-
It would have to be something like Beasley/Bamba/ Vanderbilt/ 17th pick for Ayton or Beasley/ Bamba/ 17th pick/ 47th pick. I also don't see us doing this trade at all because again, conference rivals.
**IF either Toronto or Chicago gets reports that their centers might leave for another team, then would they become legitimate trade partners for us?

***** Wildcard team********
Portland-
Lillard expects them making a big move of some sort this summer or he might explore trade options! Now IF there aren't any star moves that look viable, Would they consider trying this:
Ayton for Nurkic/ Little/ Knox/ Portland 23' 1st ( TOP 5) for Ayton/ future protected 1st? Lillard is 32 yrs old and he won't want to wait on development. So maybe he might prefer a seasoned vet like Ayton that plays his best basketball in the postseason? IF the 5th pick is too heavy a price, Then alternatively, I'd ultimately accept Nurkic/ Knox/ Johnson/ NYK 23' first (23)/ ATL 23' 2nd (43rd pick). This would be a decent value trade in that a frontcourt of Grant/ Ayton is just better and more versatile defensively than Grant/ Nurkic. And for us, It'd reduce our overall cap around 15 million as we can just decline Knox and Johnson's team options. And we could use the 23rd pick on a premium SF or backup SG option or whatever and then use our two 2nds to fill out depth with cost controlled talent. But I'd still push for the top 5 pick (IF possible)?? Never hurts to try! :dontknow:
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1387 » by bwgood77 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:00 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:Yeah I was gonna say I’d even take just Lopez for Ayton honestly, he’s elite on defense and can space the floor. Big reason people are screaming for Budenholzer’s head is because he took Lopez out on that Butler game tying shot at the end of the 4th which Lopez likely would’ve prevented.

Bucks fans don’t seem interested in Ayton either (see below) which makes sense. Nobody wants a C on a max contract unless it’s Jokic or Embiid.

viewtopic.php?p=105752308#p105752308


Maybe a young Brook Lopez, but he's 35. However, as I mention that, maybe Ishbia actually would want that, so maybe you will get your wish.

I doubt it.

Brook Lopez isn't a 13 × All Star, 2 × Finals MVP, 4 Scoring Champ, ... so Ishbia wouldn't do it.


Maybe not, but same age, longevity likely, by far leader in contesting shots, can stretch floor. And it is obviously just Ayton and not 3 players, 4 unprotected picks and an unprotected pick swap. So yes only a one time all star but not nearly as much going out either obviously.

Would it make us better or worse?

It is curious to think what teams in the west will be worse next year? I wonder if you did a poll of all NBA fans which teams would be picked the most. It's hard to think of many teams that will almost certainly be worse. Portland? I wonder where we will rank.

So if we win it all, we probably still should try to improve. I'm not saying I'd trade Ayton for Lopez, and I usually think continuity is a good thing but we probably should try some upgrades in places if possible (I guess that's an obvious statement though.)
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1388 » by bwgood77 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:01 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
sunskerr wrote:I think we look to trade BOTH Paul and Ayton. We need depth and Ayton is the most "movable" (and even then, the rest of the league may not have too much interest) piece we have that may be able to return two rotation level pieces. And if there is an option to deal Paul we will do it.

I don't think it makes sense to only move one, but I doubt Paul returns much value outside of like one role player. I think we look to get a guard, wing, and center by moving both of them.

The intricacies are along the lines of what combinations of positions are available or easier to obtain by trading Ayton vs Paul. For example is it easier to get a wing by trading Paul or get a PG by trading Ayton, or if you trade Ayton for a PG and C but what if you can't find a wing for Paul, etc..


I wonder what the Lakers do with Russell. They let him walk they lose the cap space. I only bring him up because I think the Lakers are about the only team that would have interest in Paul, unless a team simply had a player who's salary they wanted to dump and they knew with Paul's team option in 24-25 he is basically an expiring.

As for Ayton, I have no idea who would have interest. I really can't think of any teams. Most teams I thought before I don't know what we'd get.

The only possiblity that pops into my head is if Charlotte doesn't get Victor, a Rozier/Richards for Ayton/Shamet swap. Richards is solid defensively but can't shoot. He can finish but from 3-10 ft was 28% and outside of 10 ft only had 10 shots this year.

I don't see a better deal than that, or any sort of Capela/Collins swap that gets brought up all the time but some poster.

Cue GoK to take this deal and add a couple of picks and a young prospect to our side.


It's like you know me or something!....lol. :tooth
But really, I don't think it could be that far fetched or unreasonable IF:

1- Ayton balls out in the playoffs.
2- Certain teams in the lottery that might be thin or lacking experience at the 5 miss out on Wemby.
3- What the package return might be in terms of contract fillers/ picks, etc.

Overall, I've worked to make my more recent trades representative of Ayton's current perceived value. For example with Charlotte, IF they don't land Wemby, then something along the lines of Ayton for Rozier/Williams/ Denver 23' 1st/ Utah 23' 2nd should be more than reasonable. They'd be keeping their high lotto pick and would really only be giving up the 27th pick (Denver) and the 39th pick (Utah) and could still look to bring back Bridges as well given their cap situation next season. A starting 5 of Ball/ Lotto wing/ Hayward/ Bridges/ Ayton is very solid and likely a solid playoff team too. :wink:

As for other teams that still might have interest in Ayton, again, I think it largely depends on the 3 factors I mentioned above. But I can reasonably see maybe a team like Houston (IF they miss out on Wemby), or maybe San Antonio (IF they miss out on Wemby), or maybe Dallas, or Detroit (with either really needing to make big moves)!! Maybe even the Flakers of course for the right deal??

Houston-
Ayton for Eason/ Martin Jr/ Washington (or Nix)/ 20th pick? Or something along those lines perhaps. Adding Udoke signals they're trying to compete more and advance competitively. So keeping their high lotto and only giving up other complimentary young pieces and a mid-late first for Ayton is solid value. They'll have to spend anyways to get to the salary floor. So taking Ayton's salary back isn't that daunting for them.

San Antonio[/u][/b]-
Ayton for Mcdermott/ Collins/ Bassey/ SA 23' 2nd (#32)/ Charlotte 24' 1st. San Antonio is in a similar situation to Houston having tons of available cap space and will need to take on salary anyways to reach the salary floor. Getting Ayton (whom Pop and Duncan) could turn into a monster) for only two semi rotation players (Mcdermott/ Collins) and a second round bench big (Bassey) and a future first and a 2nd would still be a solid value win for them and us too. They'd keep their high lotto this year and could advance their core immensely from doing this.

Detroit-
Ayton (or Ayton/ Shamet) for Burks/ Wiseman/ Hayes (or Stewart)/ Det 23' 2nd (31)/ Detroit 25' 1st. Troy Weaver has already indicated that the pistons want to get better and compete for a playoff spot. This trade would help them advance their core and become more competitive towards that. They could field a team loaded with top picks while still maintaining cap flexibility by swapping salary with us. A starting 5 of Cunningham/ Ivey/ Bogdanovic/ Bagley ( or Stewart) / Ayton. Would be pretty strong and a solid playoff contender. We could choose to keep or decline any of the three salaried players as all are team options (depending upon our priorities)??

Dallas- (I'd hate to do this for many reasons) but..........................
The easiest trade would be of course Ayton for Irving. But IF that's not on the table, And he intends on resigning with Dallas, then you'd have to be looking at something like Ayton for Bullock/Kleber/ Hardy/ Dallas 23' 1st ( 10th pick). The 10th pick would be essential in the deal (for value) We would then buyout Shamet and look to pursue Poetl in free agency. Honestly though it's highly unlikely we'd do this trade because it's Dallas, and their a conference rival after all.

Flakers-
It would have to be something like Beasley/Bamba/ Vanderbilt/ 17th pick for Ayton or Beasley/ Bamba/ 17th pick/ 47th pick. I also don't see us doing this trade at all because again, conference rivals.
**IF either Toronto or Chicago gets reports that their centers might leave for another team, then would they become legitimate trade partners for us?

***** Wildcard team********
Portland-
Lillard expects them making a big move of some sort this summer or he might explore trade options! Now IF there aren't any star moves that look viable, Would they consider trying this:
Ayton for Nurkic/ Little/ Knox/ Portland 23' 1st ( TOP 5) for Ayton/ future protected 1st? Lillard is 32 yrs old and he won't want to wait on development. So maybe he might prefer a seasoned vet like Ayton that plays his best basketball in the postseason? IF the 5th pick is too heavy a price, Then alternatively, I'd ultimately accept Nurkic/ Knox/ Johnson/ NYK 23' first (23)/ ATL 23' 2nd (43rd pick). This would be a decent value trade in that a frontcourt of Grant/ Ayton is just better and more versatile defensively than Grant/ Nurkic. And for us, It'd reduce our overall cap around 15 million as we can just decline Knox and Johnson's team options. And we could use the 23rd pick on a premium SF or backup SG option or whatever and then use our two 2nds to fill out depth with cost controlled talent. But I'd still push for the top 5 pick (IF possible)?? Never hurts to try! :dontknow:


I think we'd do Houston and Dallas. ITht's probably about it.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1389 » by Revived » Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:15 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
No. Lopez might win DPOY and can hit the 3 opening the lane for Giannis. Jrue is nearly all NBA if he isn't. I am not sure the Bucks would be terribly enthused about a Lopez for Ayton swap, though would probably do it for age.

I think you think Ayton has far more value than he does. Zion, AD, Jrue and Lopez, etc.

Yeah I was gonna say I’d even take just Lopez for Ayton honestly, he’s elite on defense and can space the floor. Big reason people are screaming for Budenholzer’s head is because he took Lopez out on that Butler game tying shot at the end of the 4th which Lopez likely would’ve prevented.

Bucks fans don’t seem interested in Ayton either (see below) which makes sense. Nobody wants a C on a max contract unless it’s Jokic or Embiid.

viewtopic.php?p=105752308#p105752308


Maybe a young Brook Lopez, but he's 35. However, as I mention that, maybe Ishbia actually would want that, so maybe you will get your wish.

Just checked, Lopez is actually a FA so this is all a moot point. Didn’t realize he’s 35 as well, certainly doesn’t play like it. Feels like we drafted his brother Robin just few years ago but it’s been a long time.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1390 » by Saberestar » Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:26 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Maybe a young Brook Lopez, but he's 35. However, as I mention that, maybe Ishbia actually would want that, so maybe you will get your wish.

I doubt it.

Brook Lopez isn't a 13 × All Star, 2 × Finals MVP, 4 Scoring Champ, ... so Ishbia wouldn't do it.


Maybe not, but same age, longevity likely, by far leader in contesting shots, can stretch floor. And it is obviously just Ayton and not 3 players, 4 unprotected picks and an unprotected pick swap. So yes only a one time all star but not nearly as much going out either obviously.

Would it make us better or worse?

It is curious to think what teams in the west will be worse next year? I wonder if you did a poll of all NBA fans which teams would be picked the most. It's hard to think of many teams that will almost certainly be worse. Portland? I wonder where we will rank.

So if we win it all, we probably still should try to improve. I'm not saying I'd trade Ayton for Lopez, and I usually think continuity is a good thing but we probably should try some upgrades in places if possible (I guess that's an obvious statement though.)

That trade would make us worse.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1391 » by Jdiddy701 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:33 pm

Trade DA to Brooklyn for Cam Johnson and then sign Brook Lopez. Get it done James Jones!


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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1392 » by bwgood77 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:02 pm

Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:Yeah I was gonna say I’d even take just Lopez for Ayton honestly, he’s elite on defense and can space the floor. Big reason people are screaming for Budenholzer’s head is because he took Lopez out on that Butler game tying shot at the end of the 4th which Lopez likely would’ve prevented.

Bucks fans don’t seem interested in Ayton either (see below) which makes sense. Nobody wants a C on a max contract unless it’s Jokic or Embiid.

viewtopic.php?p=105752308#p105752308


Maybe a young Brook Lopez, but he's 35. However, as I mention that, maybe Ishbia actually would want that, so maybe you will get your wish.

Just checked, Lopez is actually a FA so this is all a moot point. Didn’t realize he’s 35 as well, certainly doesn’t play like it. Feels like we drafted his brother Robin just few years ago but it’s been a long time.


Yeah, with the Joe Johnson pick we got that was top 3 protected the first year and they moved up to 3 and got Horford. We got it the next year to get Robin.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1393 » by bwgood77 » Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:09 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:Trade DA to Brooklyn for Cam Johnson and then sign Brook Lopez. Get it done James Jones!


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My guess is they like Claxton at his price more than Ayton at is. If you are right and they'd prefer Ayton we should do it for Claxton and Royce O Neale or Harris. They are both expiring so it would get them under the tax after a year. They'd need more salary if it was O'Neale though. This is assuming they wouldn't do Cam Johnson or DFS. Harris would give us a great shooter for a year with no long term commitment. Claxton is expiring though so he may get a sizable contract next summer though.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1394 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:44 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I wonder what the Lakers do with Russell. They let him walk they lose the cap space. I only bring him up because I think the Lakers are about the only team that would have interest in Paul, unless a team simply had a player who's salary they wanted to dump and they knew with Paul's team option in 24-25 he is basically an expiring.

As for Ayton, I have no idea who would have interest. I really can't think of any teams. Most teams I thought before I don't know what we'd get.

The only possiblity that pops into my head is if Charlotte doesn't get Victor, a Rozier/Richards for Ayton/Shamet swap. Richards is solid defensively but can't shoot. He can finish but from 3-10 ft was 28% and outside of 10 ft only had 10 shots this year.

I don't see a better deal than that, or any sort of Capela/Collins swap that gets brought up all the time but some poster.

Cue GoK to take this deal and add a couple of picks and a young prospect to our side.


It's like you know me or something!....lol. :tooth
But really, I don't think it could be that far fetched or unreasonable IF:

1- Ayton balls out in the playoffs.
2- Certain teams in the lottery that might be thin or lacking experience at the 5 miss out on Wemby.
3- What the package return might be in terms of contract fillers/ picks, etc.

Overall, I've worked to make my more recent trades representative of Ayton's current perceived value. For example with Charlotte, IF they don't land Wemby, then something along the lines of Ayton for Rozier/Williams/ Denver 23' 1st/ Utah 23' 2nd should be more than reasonable. They'd be keeping their high lotto pick and would really only be giving up the 27th pick (Denver) and the 39th pick (Utah) and could still look to bring back Bridges as well given their cap situation next season. A starting 5 of Ball/ Lotto wing/ Hayward/ Bridges/ Ayton is very solid and likely a solid playoff team too. :wink:

As for other teams that still might have interest in Ayton, again, I think it largely depends on the 3 factors I mentioned above. But I can reasonably see maybe a team like Houston (IF they miss out on Wemby), or maybe San Antonio (IF they miss out on Wemby), or maybe Dallas, or Detroit (with either really needing to make big moves)!! Maybe even the Flakers of course for the right deal??

Houston-
Ayton for Eason/ Martin Jr/ Washington (or Nix)/ 20th pick? Or something along those lines perhaps. Adding Udoke signals they're trying to compete more and advance competitively. So keeping their high lotto and only giving up other complimentary young pieces and a mid-late first for Ayton is solid value. They'll have to spend anyways to get to the salary floor. So taking Ayton's salary back isn't that daunting for them.

San Antonio[/u][/b]-
Ayton for Mcdermott/ Collins/ Bassey/ SA 23' 2nd (#32)/ Charlotte 24' 1st. San Antonio is in a similar situation to Houston having tons of available cap space and will need to take on salary anyways to reach the salary floor. Getting Ayton (whom Pop and Duncan) could turn into a monster) for only two semi rotation players (Mcdermott/ Collins) and a second round bench big (Bassey) and a future first and a 2nd would still be a solid value win for them and us too. They'd keep their high lotto this year and could advance their core immensely from doing this.

Detroit-
Ayton (or Ayton/ Shamet) for Burks/ Wiseman/ Hayes (or Stewart)/ Det 23' 2nd (31)/ Detroit 25' 1st. Troy Weaver has already indicated that the pistons want to get better and compete for a playoff spot. This trade would help them advance their core and become more competitive towards that. They could field a team loaded with top picks while still maintaining cap flexibility by swapping salary with us. A starting 5 of Cunningham/ Ivey/ Bogdanovic/ Bagley ( or Stewart) / Ayton. Would be pretty strong and a solid playoff contender. We could choose to keep or decline any of the three salaried players as all are team options (depending upon our priorities)??

Dallas- (I'd hate to do this for many reasons) but..........................
The easiest trade would be of course Ayton for Irving. But IF that's not on the table, And he intends on resigning with Dallas, then you'd have to be looking at something like Ayton for Bullock/Kleber/ Hardy/ Dallas 23' 1st ( 10th pick). The 10th pick would be essential in the deal (for value) We would then buyout Shamet and look to pursue Poetl in free agency. Honestly though it's highly unlikely we'd do this trade because it's Dallas, and their a conference rival after all.

Flakers-
It would have to be something like Beasley/Bamba/ Vanderbilt/ 17th pick for Ayton or Beasley/ Bamba/ 17th pick/ 47th pick. I also don't see us doing this trade at all because again, conference rivals.
**IF either Toronto or Chicago gets reports that their centers might leave for another team, then would they become legitimate trade partners for us?

***** Wildcard team********
Portland-
Lillard expects them making a big move of some sort this summer or he might explore trade options! Now IF there aren't any star moves that look viable, Would they consider trying this:
Ayton for Nurkic/ Little/ Knox/ Portland 23' 1st ( TOP 5) for Ayton/ future protected 1st? Lillard is 32 yrs old and he won't want to wait on development. So maybe he might prefer a seasoned vet like Ayton that plays his best basketball in the postseason? IF the 5th pick is too heavy a price, Then alternatively, I'd ultimately accept Nurkic/ Knox/ Johnson/ NYK 23' first (23)/ ATL 23' 2nd (43rd pick). This would be a decent value trade in that a frontcourt of Grant/ Ayton is just better and more versatile defensively than Grant/ Nurkic. And for us, It'd reduce our overall cap around 15 million as we can just decline Knox and Johnson's team options. And we could use the 23rd pick on a premium SF or backup SG option or whatever and then use our two 2nds to fill out depth with cost controlled talent. But I'd still push for the top 5 pick (IF possible)?? Never hurts to try! :dontknow:


I think we'd do Houston and Dallas. ITht's probably about it.


I'd be content with the Houston one. The Dallas one would be meh (IF Irving) only because it'd be swapping one major positional hole for another. But If we traded Ayton for Irving, then it'd become paramount for us to explore moving Paul (possibly Shamet too) in a deal for cap space so we could pursue another center in free agency? IF the flakers or Dallas lose out on their guards resigning with them, Would they become potential trade partners for Paul?
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1395 » by Frank Lee » Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:19 am

Be real here. We trade Ayton it’s out of disappointment. We trade CP is a salary dump. We lose value in both. Be content with our little TPMidlevel (7 mil) and a TPE (4.5 mil)

This table was set at a let’s make a deal dinner date a few months ago. No need to make a move just to make a move. Unless of course, if Ishbia makes reservations again.

We can’t keep shuffling the deck. we’ll have half a season to trade if things bog down.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1396 » by Ghost of Kleine » Fri Apr 28, 2023 3:39 am

Read on Twitter

C'mon Ishbia this is embarrassing! Don't just sit on your hands here. Go get us a G league team to develop actual talent. Saver's gone now! No more running this franchise like a dollar store version of a franchise. You got the money! Time to build a dynasty. :nod:
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1397 » by bwgood77 » Fri Apr 28, 2023 3:47 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
It's like you know me or something!....lol. :tooth
But really, I don't think it could be that far fetched or unreasonable IF:

1- Ayton balls out in the playoffs.
2- Certain teams in the lottery that might be thin or lacking experience at the 5 miss out on Wemby.
3- What the package return might be in terms of contract fillers/ picks, etc.

Overall, I've worked to make my more recent trades representative of Ayton's current perceived value. For example with Charlotte, IF they don't land Wemby, then something along the lines of Ayton for Rozier/Williams/ Denver 23' 1st/ Utah 23' 2nd should be more than reasonable. They'd be keeping their high lotto pick and would really only be giving up the 27th pick (Denver) and the 39th pick (Utah) and could still look to bring back Bridges as well given their cap situation next season. A starting 5 of Ball/ Lotto wing/ Hayward/ Bridges/ Ayton is very solid and likely a solid playoff team too. :wink:

As for other teams that still might have interest in Ayton, again, I think it largely depends on the 3 factors I mentioned above. But I can reasonably see maybe a team like Houston (IF they miss out on Wemby), or maybe San Antonio (IF they miss out on Wemby), or maybe Dallas, or Detroit (with either really needing to make big moves)!! Maybe even the Flakers of course for the right deal??

Houston-
Ayton for Eason/ Martin Jr/ Washington (or Nix)/ 20th pick? Or something along those lines perhaps. Adding Udoke signals they're trying to compete more and advance competitively. So keeping their high lotto and only giving up other complimentary young pieces and a mid-late first for Ayton is solid value. They'll have to spend anyways to get to the salary floor. So taking Ayton's salary back isn't that daunting for them.

San Antonio[/u][/b]-
Ayton for Mcdermott/ Collins/ Bassey/ SA 23' 2nd (#32)/ Charlotte 24' 1st. San Antonio is in a similar situation to Houston having tons of available cap space and will need to take on salary anyways to reach the salary floor. Getting Ayton (whom Pop and Duncan) could turn into a monster) for only two semi rotation players (Mcdermott/ Collins) and a second round bench big (Bassey) and a future first and a 2nd would still be a solid value win for them and us too. They'd keep their high lotto this year and could advance their core immensely from doing this.

Detroit-
Ayton (or Ayton/ Shamet) for Burks/ Wiseman/ Hayes (or Stewart)/ Det 23' 2nd (31)/ Detroit 25' 1st. Troy Weaver has already indicated that the pistons want to get better and compete for a playoff spot. This trade would help them advance their core and become more competitive towards that. They could field a team loaded with top picks while still maintaining cap flexibility by swapping salary with us. A starting 5 of Cunningham/ Ivey/ Bogdanovic/ Bagley ( or Stewart) / Ayton. Would be pretty strong and a solid playoff contender. We could choose to keep or decline any of the three salaried players as all are team options (depending upon our priorities)??

Dallas- (I'd hate to do this for many reasons) but..........................
The easiest trade would be of course Ayton for Irving. But IF that's not on the table, And he intends on resigning with Dallas, then you'd have to be looking at something like Ayton for Bullock/Kleber/ Hardy/ Dallas 23' 1st ( 10th pick). The 10th pick would be essential in the deal (for value) We would then buyout Shamet and look to pursue Poetl in free agency. Honestly though it's highly unlikely we'd do this trade because it's Dallas, and their a conference rival after all.

Flakers-
It would have to be something like Beasley/Bamba/ Vanderbilt/ 17th pick for Ayton or Beasley/ Bamba/ 17th pick/ 47th pick. I also don't see us doing this trade at all because again, conference rivals.
**IF either Toronto or Chicago gets reports that their centers might leave for another team, then would they become legitimate trade partners for us?

***** Wildcard team********
Portland-
Lillard expects them making a big move of some sort this summer or he might explore trade options! Now IF there aren't any star moves that look viable, Would they consider trying this:
Ayton for Nurkic/ Little/ Knox/ Portland 23' 1st ( TOP 5) for Ayton/ future protected 1st? Lillard is 32 yrs old and he won't want to wait on development. So maybe he might prefer a seasoned vet like Ayton that plays his best basketball in the postseason? IF the 5th pick is too heavy a price, Then alternatively, I'd ultimately accept Nurkic/ Knox/ Johnson/ NYK 23' first (23)/ ATL 23' 2nd (43rd pick). This would be a decent value trade in that a frontcourt of Grant/ Ayton is just better and more versatile defensively than Grant/ Nurkic. And for us, It'd reduce our overall cap around 15 million as we can just decline Knox and Johnson's team options. And we could use the 23rd pick on a premium SF or backup SG option or whatever and then use our two 2nds to fill out depth with cost controlled talent. But I'd still push for the top 5 pick (IF possible)?? Never hurts to try! :dontknow:


I think we'd do Houston and Dallas. ITht's probably about it.


I'd be content with the Houston one. The Dallas one would be meh (IF Irving) only because it'd be swapping one major positional hole for another. But If we traded Ayton for Irving, then it'd become paramount for us to explore moving Paul (possibly Shamet too) in a deal for cap space so we could pursue another center in free agency? IF the flakers or Dallas lose out on their guards resigning with them, Would they become potential trade partners for Paul?


Trading Paul wouldn't give us cap space. We are WAY over the cap. You can forget cap space for awhile. Do you ever look at cap sheets? Might save you a lot of time. We are in the tax. You have to be like $30 million over the cap to even hit the tax, so we are over $30 million over the cap...with Book, KD and DA's contracts going up every year...and if we swapped DA for Kyrie, Kyrie would likely have a bigger contract.
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1398 » by Jdiddy701 » Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:19 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter

C'mon Ishbia this is embarrassing! Don't just sit on your hands here. Go get us a G league team to develop actual talent. Saver's gone now! No more running this franchise like a dollar store version of a franchise. You got the money! Time to build a dynasty. :nod:

I’m pretty sure I read a tweet a few days ago that the Suns will have a G-League team in two years.


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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1399 » by bwgood77 » Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:43 am

I was looking at playoff stats to try and determine the All Playoff team now and was surprised when looking for 2nd starting guard next to Book the comparison between Curry and Ant. I remember looking at Ant's #s in a game and they were bad, but they are pretty much in line with Curry's. A little less volume from 3 at a little worse % but still high volume on a high %.

Book and Butler have crazy #s. Butler's 3pt shooting is shocking.

And it's funny that people say KD isn't playing well or is playing avg when he has an absurd 3pt% (quite a bit better than his regular season) and is at 28.4/7.6/6.2/1/1 on 52/46/90 splits. He is slightly down in PPG from reg season (less than a ppg) and is up over 10% in 3pt% from 40 to almost 46% and has increased rebounds, assists and steals.

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I think first team would be Book, Curry, Butler, KD, Jokic.

For a second after touting Butler, I completely forgot about him and had gone with AD at 2nd forward before remembering Butler...and he is obviously 1st forward to make the team, booting AD.

I had written this before remembering Butler though so may as well not delete: Tatum is maybe close with AD. More ppg and ast, but AD is averaging 21.8/13.6/2.2/1.6,7/4.2 blocks on 47/33/80. Tatum is at 26.6/9.2/5/.6/1 on 43/34/88

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player
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Re: 2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoffs. Playoffs? Playoffs? 

Post#1400 » by MrMiyagi » Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:58 am

bwgood77 wrote:I was looking at playoff stats to try and determine the All Playoff team now and was surprised when looking for 2nd starting guard next to Book the comparison between Curry and Ant. I remember looking at Ant's #s in a game and they were bad, but they are pretty much in line with Curry's. A little less volume from 3 at a little worse % but still high volume on a high %.

Book and Butler have crazy #s. Butler's 3pt shooting is shocking.

And it's funny that people say KD isn't playing well or is playing avg when he has an absurd 3pt% (quite a bit better than his regular season) and is at 28.4/7.6/6.2/1/1 on 52/46/90 splits. He is slightly down in PPG from reg season (less than a ppg) and is up over 10% in 3pt% from 40 to almost 46% and has increased rebounds, assists and steals.

Image

I think first team would be Book, Curry, Butler, KD, Jokic.

For a second after touting Butler, I completely forgot about him and had gone with AD at 2nd forward before remembering Butler...and he is obviously 1st forward to make the team, booting AD.

I had written this before remembering Butler though so may as well not delete: Tatum is maybe close with AD. More ppg and ast, but AD is averaging 21.8/13.6/2.2/1.6,7/4.2 blocks on 47/33/80. Tatum is at 26.6/9.2/5/.6/1 on 43/34/88

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player
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