Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[life_saver]

I'd definitely keep Prince...he was quite useful in RS and his cap hit is only like $7.5M. I wouldn't overreact based on playoffs performances of a role player considering small sample size

[Note30]

Giannis only has two years on his contract and may not sign an extension. If we hadn't blow our wad on Rudy, we could have had a decent draft pick this year and make a bid for him next year using McDaniels and picks.

[wolves_89]

So I think having another big wing like Prince is useful, especially in the playoffs, but it is also highly valuable to be able to use your MLE, as a way to add talent without giving up trade assets. If we keep Prince, it appears we are too close to the lux threshold to use the MLE, so perhaps a trade to a team with a TPE or cap space could bring back a cheap asset.

Teams with TPEs greater than $7.65: BRK, DEN, POR, UTA* (though more likely renounced to operate as a cap space team)
Teams with Cap Space: HOU, SA, UTA, DET, IND, ORL

(Other teams can generate cap space, like SAC if they let Harrison Barnes leave. List is just easiest matches).

Nearly all teams can use a decent SF - Utah, Portland and Orlando stand out to me, as teams with playoff ambitions. However, since Prince was a team leader and role model for younger players last year, I could see lottery teams interested in him as well. Utah has the #28 pick this year, and may be happy to swap it since they also have 9 and 16. Though they may want to sit on their cap space.

The more I think about the offseason, the more I'm seeing Prince as an interesting pivot point. Prince is a useful player and I doubt we could find a similar caliber replacement for $7.65M. On the other hand, his player archetype and relatively modest salary could bring a fair amount of interest if Prince was made available.

The problem I'm currently running into is what options might make sense if the team does trade Prince (either trading him for a player or to free up salary to use the MLE). I don't think the Wolves trade Prince for a big because the team seems well positioned on that front. I also don't see the team trading him for a forward since that would be a lateral move at best. That leaves the guard position where the free agent market is pretty thin in the Wolves price range. Maybe there is a guard with an $6-10M contract that would make sense, but I haven't really come up with any great options.

[urinesane]

Giannis only has two years on his contract and may not sign an extension. If we hadn't blow our wad on Rudy, we could have had a decent draft pick this year and make a bid for him next year using McDaniels and picks.

Are you trying to be unhappy?

[Note30]

Giannis only has two years on his contract and may not sign an extension. If we hadn't blow our wad on Rudy, we could have had a decent draft pick this year and make a bid for him next year using McDaniels and picks.

Are you trying to be unhappy?

Just protecting myself from getting too hopeful.

[urinesane]

Giannis only has two years on his contract and may not sign an extension. If we hadn't blow our wad on Rudy, we could have had a decent draft pick this year and make a bid for him next year using McDaniels and picks.

Are you trying to be unhappy?

Just protecting myself from getting too hopeful.

The prevent defense of fandom.

You may as well just take up a new hobby if you're pre-disappointing yourself so that you're less disappointed later lol

[Dalvin]

So I think having another big wing like Prince is useful, especially in the playoffs, but it is also highly valuable to be able to use your MLE, as a way to add talent without giving up trade assets. If we keep Prince, it appears we are too close to the lux threshold to use the MLE, so perhaps a trade to a team with a TPE or cap space could bring back a cheap asset.

Teams with TPEs greater than $7.65: BRK, DEN, POR, UTA* (though more likely renounced to operate as a cap space team)
Teams with Cap Space: HOU, SA, UTA, DET, IND, ORL

(Other teams can generate cap space, like SAC if they let Harrison Barnes leave. List is just easiest matches).

Nearly all teams can use a decent SF - Utah, Portland and Orlando stand out to me, as teams with playoff ambitions. However, since Prince was a team leader and role model for younger players last year, I could see lottery teams interested in him as well. Utah has the #28 pick this year, and may be happy to swap it since they also have 9 and 16. Though they may want to sit on their cap space.

The more I think about the offseason, the more I'm seeing Prince as an interesting pivot point. Prince is a useful player and I doubt we could find a similar caliber replacement for $7.65M. On the other hand, his player archetype and relatively modest salary could bring a fair amount of interest if Prince was made available.

The problem I'm currently running into is what options might make sense if the team does trade Prince (either trading him for a player or to free up salary to use the MLE). I don't think the Wolves trade Prince for a big because the team seems well positioned on that front. I also don't see the team trading him for a forward since that would be a lateral move at best. That leaves the guard position where the free agent market is pretty thin in the Wolves price range. Maybe there is a guard with an $6-10M contract that would make sense, but I haven't really come up with any great options.

The irony is, we traded a PG for Prince, now we're thinking of trading Prince for a PG

[shrink]

Would this be enough to lower our talent?

MIN GIVES: Prince
MIN GETS: #34, #39, ($7.65 mil TPE)

HOU GIVES: (cap space), 2024 HOU 2nd, 2024 BRK 2nd
HOU GETS: Prince

CHA GIVES: #34, #39
CHA GETS: 2024 HOU 2nd, 2024 BRK 2nd

Why? Houston likes him as a starter and steady hand with all the kids. CHA is lined up to have to add five picks (4, 27, 34, 39, 41) - this defers a couple to next year.

Why for MIN? This might bite them later since big wings are valuable, but MIN is well stocked, and this may create some minutes for Minott. Tim Connolly has demonstrated an ability to find talent later in the draft, this gets him two shots. The savings helps give us back some of our MLE under the lux, and we can use part of it to lock up these 2nd rounders on Hinkie Specials. Finally, our roster is top heavy in both price and top rotation players - this helps fill the back end of the roster with guys that don’t need minutes right away, and stay cheap when we hit the big tax bills starting in 2024.

I can see my case, and Prince is an expiring, but .. big wings .. and we want to make noise in the 2024 playoffs? Maybe?

[TimberKat]

I am thinking we take all our tradable salary to get a quality guy. Prince 7.6m + NAW 7.0M + Naz 12M + JMcl 2 M = 30M guy.

Our Top 8: Towns, Ant, Gobert, Conley, KA, JMcD, 30m guy, Vet min guy. With Moore, Minnott, Garza get some minutes.

Maybe 25Mil guy and we keep NAW. We need to spend that on someone who can create his own shots. That is the only thing I missed from DLo.

[Note30]

I am thinking we take all our tradable salary to get a quality guy. Prince 7.6m + NAW 7.0M + Naz 12M + JMcl 2 M = 30M guy.

Our Top 8: Towns, Ant, Gobert, Conley, KA, JMcD, 30m guy, Vet min guy. With Moore, Minnott, Garza get some minutes.

Maybe 25Mil guy and we keep NAW. We need to spend that on someone who can create his own shots. That is the only thing I missed from DLo.

You would need to sign and trade multiple people if you intend to do it this offseason, as far as I know you can't attach people in a sign and trade. Could be wrong.

Who would this mythical person be?

[minimus]

I am thinking we take all our tradable salary to get a quality guy. Prince 7.6m + NAW 7.0M + Naz 12M + JMcl 2 M = 30M guy.

Our Top 8: Towns, Ant, Gobert, Conley, KA, JMcD, 30m guy, Vet min guy. With Moore, Minnott, Garza get some minutes.

Maybe 25Mil guy and we keep NAW. We need to spend that on someone who can create his own shots. That is the only thing I missed from DLo.

You can't combine sign-n-trades. Also I don't want empty bench anymore. Playoffs are mostly about matchups, so no one can guarantee second round, but at least with bench there is a chance to be healthy and be in RS standings higher than playin.

[minimus]

One thing I have been recently thinking about. Having three capable bigs under contract might be also beneficial for our flexibility moving into new season. Let me explain. MIN have two lines, two directions that need to be aligned. First, short term is to win enough games to be in playoff. Second, long term is to be able to build competitive roster to be in playoff for at least next 4-5 years.

As we can see despite Towns missing 52 games, we were able to stay in playoff race, because of Reid and Gobert. We kept Reid in deadline because we needed his production (short term). But also if we re-sign Naz to multiyear contract we can trade one of our bigs if MIN get a good offer (long term).

Also Reid, Towns and Gobert perception depends on play-off results. It is like chess game played in front of our eyes. If Fox did not broke his finger and SAC beat GSW I definitely would expect a lot of interest for both Reid and Towns because teams can run efficient five-out defense around them. If Giannis did not injured his back and MIL could make big lineup work against MIA smallball I would expect interest for Gobert. Teams are always adjusting after learning from playoff matchups. I think Reid, Towns and Gobert values are at lowest point now, for many reasons (injuries, lack of chemistry, early playoff exit). But I wont be surprised if it will change in good for MIN way during offseason.

[minimus]

Let say SAS falls to #2 at draft and get Scoot Henderson or Amen Thompson. Both PGs.

SAS IN: Towns
SAS OUT: Vassell, Tre Jones, McDermott, 2025 SAS FRP, 2024 TOR FRP

Why for SAS: build around Towns-Sochan-Henderson trio

ATL IN: TP, McDermott, 2024 TOR FRP
ATL OUT: John Collins

Why for ATL: trade Collins contract, get assets

MIN IN: Vassell, Tre Jones, John Collins, 2025 SAS FRP
MIN OUT: Towns, TP

Why for MIN: balance roster with backup PG, backup wing and starting PF, get FRP

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Collins/Anderson/Minott
MCD/Vassell/Moore
Edwards/NAW/Vassell
Conley/Jones/JMac

[Baseline81]

Let say SAS falls to #2 at draft and get Scoot Henderson or Amen Thompson. Both PGs.

SAS IN: Towns
SAS OUT: Vassell, Tre Jones, McDermott, 2025 SAS FRP, 2024 TOR FRP

Why for SAS: build around Towns-Sochan-Henderson trio

ATL IN: TP, McDermott, 2024 TOR FRP
ATL OUT: John Collins

Why for ATL: trade Collins contract, get assets

MIN IN: Vassell, Tre Jones, John Collins, 2025 SAS FRP
MIN OUT: Towns, TP

Why for MIN: balance roster with backup PG, backup wing and starting PF, get FRP

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Collins/Anderson/Minott
MCD/Vassell/Moore
Edwards/NAW/Vassell
Conley/Jones/JMac

What is the fascination with Tre Jones? Is it because he's from Minnesota and the brother of Tyus?

With the team's construction, the PG must be able to reliably shoot from the 3-point line. For his career, Tre Jones is 27.1% (28.5% this past season).

[minimus]

What is the fascination with Tre Jones? Is it because he's from Minnesota and the brother of Tyus?

Both. Also I like his basketball IQ, on ball defense, effort and AST:TO ratio

With the team's construction, the PG must be able to reliably shoot from the 3-point line. For his career, Tre Jones is 27.1% (28.5% this past season).

Small sample size, but in his last 10 games of this season he was averaging 15.2ppg, 8.6apg on 57/45/78. Play him as backup PG, let him learn from Conley, give him two more offseasons and he might be a better 3pt shooter.

[shrink]

What is the fascination with Tre Jones? Is it because he's from Minnesota and the brother of Tyus?

This is not a small thing. With so many free agents willing to consider MIN, team control is a very big deal for the Wolves. Tre and Tyus are more likely to re-sign with the Wolves, and reduces the risk of us giving up assets in a trade for a player, only to see him walk out the door at his first opportunity.

I hear what you are saying about three pointers. I think that people here are tired of all the turnovers.

[Klomp]

I know there's a massive salary and value gap, but I've been intrigued for months (especially since they seem to be trying to win now) about swapping out Towns for Sengun.

[urinesane]

Trading low on Gobert or KAT is just not the move. Unless KAT has another injury plagued year next season he will most definitely raise his value, so there's no point to making a move now. Let them have some continuity, let the coaching staff learn from the season and build a better system for the pieces they have, and see how it works next season. They can always trade KAT at the deadline if the writing is on the wall.

Trading now you most definitely set things back a bit and never get to see what this roster can be with familiarity, a better system, and an extra year of development from McDaniels/Ant/Naz (assuming they keep him).

Just having an offseason/training camp together I think this squad comes out pissed off next season and rips off some decent winning streaks. They were constantly sh*t on this season from the moment the Gobert trade happened until the playoffs ended for them, they are going to have a chip on their shoulders and something to prove.

[Norseman79]

Trading low on Gobert or KAT is just not the move. Unless KAT has another injury plagued year next season he will most definitely raise his value, so there's no point to making a move now. Let them have some continuity, let the coaching staff learn from the season and build a better system for the pieces they have, and see how it works next season. They can always trade KAT at the deadline if the writing is on the wall.

Trading now you most definitely set things back a bit and never get to see what this roster can be with familiarity, a better system, and an extra year of development from McDaniels/Ant/Naz (assuming they keep him).

Just having an offseason/training camp together I think this squad comes out pissed off next season and rips off some decent winning streaks. They were constantly sh*t on this season from the moment the Gobert trade happened until the playoffs ended for them, they are going to have a chip on their shoulders and something to prove.

I'll play your game. What happens when we wait until next year, and the "experiment" is absolutely awful. The gap between Edwards and Rudy is deeper and even more obvious than before. Kat continues to struggle and fails to put up as good of stats at power forward and his defense also dwindles.

Now you have towns who is statistically done for the second year, likely unhappy, and not nearly as valuable as he would be right now. You also have Rudy, who has alienated teammates, is in a system that doesn't work for him, and has value that has dropped even lower than it is right now. In addition to that, you've lost several players due to salary cap like Naz, that you could have resigned had you made a move of one of these two if not both. You also waste another year of Ant and risk his unhappiness growing.

Other gms will definitely line up to help us out right?

[Domejandro]

If Minnesota trades Karl-Anthony Towns, he would return comfortably more than most of the posts in the thread, over the past few pages. Gotta be honest, I really don’t get the fascination with trading him for mediocre prospects and garbage.