Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[Willie Colon]

I'm ready to duck shoes and projectiles like George Bush.

If we can't get another superstar to pair with Giannis, I'm down for trading Giannis himself. I believe he's reached the peak of his talent and has shown some disturbing signs of regression this season. He's also going to age far worse than Middleton is.

I wouldn't mind taking a chance on a young franchise level player like Zion, Luka, or at least try to land the number one pick. Giannis is the only one who could possibly make that happen, but time is running out.

[pifhluk23]

I'm ready to duck shoes and projectiles like George Bush.

If we can't get another superstar to pair with Giannis, I'm down for trading Giannis himself. I believe he's reached the peak of his talent and has shown some disturbing signs of regression this season. He's also going to age far worse than Middleton is.

I wouldn't mind taking a chance on a young franchise level player like Zion, Luka, or at least try to land the number one pick. Giannis is the only one who could possibly make that happen, but time is running out.

No way those 2 are available for Giannis. There is 0 chance the Bucks organization trades him anyway, they don't have the foresight or risk taking to do it. I'm not even sure they won't just run it back with minor changes because honestly nearly everyone is conservative in ownership / GM roles.

[CharityStripe34]

How many people do you know come home from work and say, "wow, my boss is a real hardass, I love it?" In 2023, what we do, is call that a toxic work environment.

Certain plays do like to be coached hard. Hardass is a crude term, but the great coaches are usually tough and not afraid to hold dudes accountable.

As for possible moves/trades, Horst will have to take a chance on 1-2 younger guys at some point who they think would thrive alongside Gianni and improve. We can't solely rely on rehashed vets, anymore.

There are PLENTY of ways to hold folks accountable without being a "hardass."

Of course. Obviously, behind the scenes we don't exactly know what happens. Even the supposed hardasses can be sweethearts lol.

[paulpressey25]

Hard to believe there'd be a GM in the league who thinks Bud can come in and fix anything. The guy sucks. He'll most likely be an assistant coach for the next 5 seasons before retiring/getting another shot for some **** rebuilding team.

Bud would have his pick of about 6-8 jobs. There are many teams that can’t get over the hump, and would gladly take a guy who got two programs to 60-win levels.

[SupremeHustle]

The most realistic path to getting 'our Haliburton' is probably trading somebody for the 12th pick and our Haliburton is available for totally inscrutable reasons, like happened with the real Haliburton.

I don't feel anywhere near as strong about him as I felt about Haliburton but I do think it's the right time to get the guy who went one pick later: Kira Lewis.

I like it.

[LuessiT]

I just can't imagine running it back, even with a new coach. I suppose that could be the half-measure Edens/Horst fall on, but the damage done in this series will be a huge mental hurdle for this group moving forward it we largely stand pat.

It's either running it back (with or without major changes) or getting out of the tax. The luxury tax is ticking and we can't afford a single non-contending season in the tax.

I think they run it back with a different coach. The second most likely case is that they let Middleton and possibly Brook go and creep under the tax. The third most likely thing is they aim for the Hollywood trade (Dame), but that could turn into a desaster very quickly.

I think with bringing Haslam's deep pockets into the mix, ducking the tax is not something they are overly concerned about. Sunk cost fallacy or however you want to label it, you cannot let Khris and Brook walk for nothing. There are no avenues for improvement after that, and saving repeater money won't do much at the table with Giannis.

I mean you can, the team will just get less talented and worse of course. But in terms of overall asset value, letting both go might be not be the worst case because I don't see either being particularly tradeable on their next deal. Personally I would keep both salary slots, but I don't think it's as clear a choice as you make it.

[tydett]

Hard to believe there'd be a GM in the league who thinks Bud can come in and fix anything. The guy sucks. He'll most likely be an assistant coach for the next 5 seasons before retiring/getting another shot for some **** rebuilding team.

Bud would have his pick of about 6-8 jobs. There are many teams that can’t get over the hump, and would gladly take a guy who got two programs to 60-win levels.

We would have absolutely killed for a guy like Bud instead of the Porter/Krystkowiak/Skiles/Drew trash fest. If Budenholzer does lose his job, Houston might even privately regret that they didn't wait a few weeks.

[Antinomy]

All I know is, even if we run it back, Jrue CANNOT be our primary ballhandler/PG. Optimally you’d want a situation similar to Boston having 2-3 high level guards.

Unfortunately, Jrue makes about the same as any 2 of Smart-Brogdon-White combined

Next is finding a long athletic switchable guy — which is why I’d move on from Bobby for a guy like DFS

Assuming Brook gets re-signed, you cannot have $30M tied up at the C position in 2023 — especially when both guys can be played off the floor

I’d rather get a young cheap energy big to replace the Bobby role, especially considering he’s unplayable against good teams in the playoffs.

The team has very few assets moving forward, so there’s a good chance we see them pick up some undrafted or development guys AND actually play them.

This has to be a transitional year.

[Couch Potato]

I'm ready to duck shoes and projectiles like George Bush.

If we can't get another superstar to pair with Giannis, I'm down for trading Giannis himself. I believe he's reached the peak of his talent and has shown some disturbing signs of regression this season. He's also going to age far worse than Middleton is.

I wouldn't mind taking a chance on a young franchise level player like Zion, Luka, or at least try to land the number one pick. Giannis is the only one who could possibly make that happen, but time is running out.

Zion is always over weight and/or injured.

[emunney]

Kind of intrigued by the thought of keeping the big 4 together for another year with a new coach, and seeing what value we can squeeze out of the other guys. For instance, here are some half-baked ideas along the lines of what I'm thinking:

Bobby to NOP
Kira Lewis, Garrett Temple, 2024 FRP pick (Bucks own) to Bucks

Pat to OKC
Isaiah Joe, Pokusevski to Bucks

Grayson to Knicks
Toppin to Bucks

Taking fliers on young talent could change the complexion of the team without closing the door on competing, while *potentially* identifying a new core piece.

[emunney]

This is a good take.

Read on Twitter

[skones]

Gotta find the next Malik Monk.

Coby White fits that classic drafted high at 7, under achieved, still has an applicable skillset but is perceived as disappointing due to draft position. Actually moved some of his impact metrics into the green this season. At 22, he's even got plenty of time to grow into a larger role with a little coach empowerment. May however be priced out of our range, but he'd be near the top of my sneaky re-tool target list.

[emunney]

Gotta find the next Malik Monk.

Coby White fits that classic drafted high at 7, under achieved, still has an applicable skillset but is perceived as disappointing due to draft position. Actually moved some of his impact metrics into the green this season. At 22, he's even got plenty of time to grow into a larger role with a little coach empowerment. May however be priced out of our range, but he'd be near the top of my sneaky re-tool target list.

The expectations people have for picks are really weird when you think about it. Like at 7, you should theoretically be getting the 7th best guy in the draft, right? Many years that guy isn't even an average NBA starter.

[German Athens]

I kinda want Josh green, and Dallas could use one of our big 3.

Overall, I feel gross suggesting it, but Jrue for green, Tim hardaway jr, Bertrans + 10.

I haven’t looked at this draft yet. How’s the mid lottery look?

[emunney]

Like, even a guy like Brogdon would probably be considered a mild disappointment if he was taken 7th, and that's asinine.

[BUCKnation]

The whole team looked like they quit the second they saw yet another huge 4th quarter lead start to evaporate. I don't think I've ever seen a group of such veteran experienced, championship winning players just completely fold like that.

This is why I really don't know how to evaluate this squad. We know they tend to have these moments of fleeting *insert more appropriate word here* when the intensity ramps up, but there's no way looking at the last 6-playoff series before this that you conclude that this group as a whole is this bad in the clutch. Hell, they had the best W/L record in the entire league by a country mile in clutch situations this year (27-8). It almost defies logic how they could meltdown like this.

It was truly some twilight zone ****. Like, the worst tanking teams in the league could not have duplicated some of the stuff we were doing in the 4th quarters of games 4 and 5.

Outside of that Philly game a couple of months ago, this sort of thing just doesn't happen. This team usually pulls away in the last 6 min, not crumbles. I've been comfortable all year watching a tight game in the 4th. Everything about this series defies logic.

[skones]

Gotta find the next Malik Monk.

Coby White fits that classic drafted high at 7, under achieved, still has an applicable skillset but is perceived as disappointing due to draft position. Actually moved some of his impact metrics into the green this season. At 22, he's even got plenty of time to grow into a larger role with a little coach empowerment. May however be priced out of our range, but he'd be near the top of my sneaky re-tool target list.

The expectations people have for picks are really weird when you think about it. Like at 7, you should theoretically be getting the 7th best guy in the draft, right? Many years that guy isn't even an average NBA starter.

It's wild how the expectations of the team drafting them, seems to seep in the brains of other GMs around the league and these talented guys who look like damn solid bench contributors go for way cheaper than they probably should. It makes you question what some of these GMs see when they evaluate talent. There's an emphasis on the shiny new draft toy more than there is actual development.

How many of these guys, if you took them in the second half of the lottery, and said, "hey, this is the role we have in mind for you, and then build them into these do the right thing bench players," would succeed instead of going to these bottom feeders where they're given often unrealistic expectations? You'd have this legitimate contributor and any other growth would be gravy. It's just not the approach.

Long sentence but you get the gist.

[MissKhriddleton]

The whole team looked like they quit the second they saw yet another huge 4th quarter lead start to evaporate. I don't think I've ever seen a group of such veteran experienced, championship winning players just completely fold like that.

This is why I really don't know how to evaluate this squad. We know they tend to have these moments of fleeting *insert more appropriate word here* when the intensity ramps up, but there's no way looking at the last 6-playoff series before this that you conclude that this group as a whole is this bad in the clutch. Hell, they had the best W/L record in the entire league by a country mile in clutch situations this year (27-8). It almost defies logic how they could meltdown like this.

It was truly some twilight zone ****. Like, the worst tanking teams in the league could not have duplicated some of the stuff we were doing in the 4th quarters of games 4 and 5.

Outside of that Philly game a couple of months ago, this sort of thing just doesn't happen. This team usually pulls away in the last 6 min, not crumbles. I've been comfortable all year watching a tight game in the 4th. Everything about this series defies logic.

Probably just one shot during those runs to push a lead up to 15 or back up from 9 to 11-12 in either Game 4 or 5 and we coast to victory. You see it all the time where a team makes a big run down double digits and then a three from the other side kills all their hope. They just didn't go in. Maybe like a 2% chance that we would have missed all the shots that we did.

One freaking shot in both games and it's a closeout party tonight and we're laughing about the Knicks. ****.

[Bucksfan28]

Gotta find the next Malik Monk.

Coby White fits that classic drafted high at 7, under achieved, still has an applicable skillset but is perceived as disappointing due to draft position. Actually moved some of his impact metrics into the green this season. At 22, he's even got plenty of time to grow into a larger role with a little coach empowerment. May however be priced out of our range, but he'd be near the top of my sneaky re-tool target list.

Could be misremembering but thought I heard Chicago became really high on him the last month or two of the season. I like the thought but yea, he might be too expensive.

[skones]

Gotta find the next Malik Monk.

Coby White fits that classic drafted high at 7, under achieved, still has an applicable skillset but is perceived as disappointing due to draft position. Actually moved some of his impact metrics into the green this season. At 22, he's even got plenty of time to grow into a larger role with a little coach empowerment. May however be priced out of our range, but he'd be near the top of my sneaky re-tool target list.

Could be misremembering but thought I heard Chicago became really high on him the last month or two of the season. I like the thought but yea, he might be too expensive.

We have a Bobby trade chip to leverage here IMO. I don't know which direction Chicago goes in, but White's not a PG and paying him when you have Lavine on the roster may be ill advised. Then you've got Dosunmu, Caruso, Derozan. That backcourt is crowded. They'd be putting A LOT of stock into his last 15 games or so during the dog days of the season.