Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[MickeyDavis]

This is a good take.

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All of the "media" and "fans" who were experts on how Giannis should feel 2 days ago, have moved on to become NFL draft experts.

[CannondaleF400]

I'd like to bring the roster back and change the head coach. If things don't improve next year then make big changes with the roster.

[emunney]

This is a good take.

Read on Twitter

All of the "media" and "fans" who were experts on how Giannis should feel 2 days ago, have moved on to become NFL draft experts.

Lol, same!

[BuckFan25226]

The whole team looked like they quit the second they saw yet another huge 4th quarter lead start to evaporate. I don't think I've ever seen a group of such veteran experienced, championship winning players just completely fold like that.

This is why I really don't know how to evaluate this squad. We know they tend to have these moments of fleeting *insert more appropriate word here* when the intensity ramps up, but there's no way looking at the last 6-playoff series before this that you conclude that this group as a whole is this bad in the clutch. Hell, they had the best W/L record in the entire league by a country mile in clutch situations this year (27-8). It almost defies logic how they could meltdown like this.

It was truly some twilight zone ****. Like, the worst tanking teams in the league could not have duplicated some of the stuff we were doing in the 4th quarters of games 4 and 5.

Outside of that Philly game a couple of months ago, this sort of thing just doesn't happen. This team usually pulls away in the last 6 min, not crumbles. I've been comfortable all year watching a tight game in the 4th. Everything about this series defies logic.

It doesn't defy logic though. We've done this all year. Look at the Toronto meltdown, what was that? A 20 point lead with 2 min? Look at the Chicago game, 14 or 15 points in the last 4 minutes to lose? Up 10 with 2 minutes. The Philly game in March, also almost losing to the bench of Boston at home.

This team always talks about the importance of building the right habits, taking your pills etc. Add in the BS load management and how exhausted we looked against Miami, this really isn't as shocking once you look back at how this team looked throughout the year.

Look at some of the playoff/winning teams we played all year.

Smoked by Atlanta twice in November
Smoked @ Philly
Losing both games in Chicago(one being another meltdown)
Smoked in Cleveland twice
Embarrassed in Memphis
Embarrassed by Boston multiple times
Worked over in Brooklyn when they had KD/Kyrie
Melting down against GSW later in the year to lose
Bitch slapped in Denver

What happened against Miami was coming.

[aboveAverage]

First of all, I don’t really care about media sessions after these kind of disappointing losses because all you get is quick sound bites. You never know what the players and coaching staff really think and what they’re saying behind the scenes. And I’m sure they were highly disappointed. Giannis is not obligated to give us any more insight into his thoughts than he feels comfortable with.

That being said, it’s completely acceptable to admit that this was a team failure. If it wasn't, then the team’s expectations were not high enough. Furthermore, failure is part of life. That’s the philosophical zen part that I believe Giannis wanted to get across, and it’s also true. You can learn from this and get better. It doesn’t define you or make the season and all the effort worthless. But the playoff result was objectively a failure on the team level, and admitting it demonstrates accountability and leadership.

[BUCKnation]

Bud absolutely choked and I'm fine moving on from him and doing something different, but you're lying to yourself if you think he isn't a top 10, borderline top 5 current head coach.

Both have their warts and seem to rub some players the wrong way, but I think higher of Lue, than Nurse, and those are probably the top 2 options. Not sure I'd be ok with trying someone new. Not really sure who is out there for that.

[skones]

Bud absolutely choked and I'm fine moving on from him and doing something different, but you're lying to yourself if you think he isn't a top 10, borderline top 5 current head coach.

Both have their warts and seem to rub some players the wrong way, but I think higher of Lue, than Nurse, and those are probably the top 2 options. Not sure I'd be ok with trying someone new. Not really sure who is out there for that.

Frank came out and said Lue would be back next year yesterday.

[BUCKnation]

This is a good take.

Read on Twitter

Definitely the best one I've seen. It was more than a fair question and I appreciate Giannis having a different answer than the flat out yes that it is.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

This is a good take.

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Except he (EN) never said anything about Giannis. I think that is a horrible take. He clearly asked if this season is a failure but the tweet implies he was telling Giannis he should feel like a failure. (Unless the tweet wasnt directly about the interview and instead talking about random masses?)
You can fail at a task at a group but not be a failure.

[Ron Swanson]

The Nurse obsession dates back to before we even hired Bud. It's just weird to completely ignore the fanbase that watched him for years (Toronto) when they point out his many perceived warts (rigid with rotations and staggering, defensive scheme too reliant on gambling and creating turnovers, doesn't maximize offensive talent) and dismiss it as "impatient fanbase just soured on him" without a hint of irony. I'm not convinced they're ready to move on from Bud, but if so, I think my Top-3 candidates is pretty clear cut:

Kenny Atkinson
Frank Vogel

Carlisle (if he decides he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild any more)

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

First question is to Giannis and ask him what he wants and if he is willing to extend if we do it (Rematch mode, rebuild, retool, blow it up, etc). If he is non-committal I say rebuild with whatever we can get. If Giannis is not ready to commit and not willing to rebuild, may be better to know next year while he has a few years on his contract. Worst case scenario is keeping the band together only for Giannis to not resign.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

The Nurse obsession dates back to before we even hired Bud. It's just weird to completely ignore the fanbase that watched him for years (Toronto) when they point out his many perceived warts (rigid with rotations and staggering, defensive scheme too reliant on gambling and creating turnovers, doesn't maximize offensive talent) and dismiss it as "impatient fanbase just soured on him" without a hint of irony. I'm not convinced they're ready to move on from Bud, but if so, I think my Top-3 candidates is pretty clear cut:

Kenny Atkinson
Frank Vogel

Carlisle (if he decides he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild any more)

But is there any fan base that loves their coach after that long? I still think Bud is a hell of a coach and probably top 10 in the league. He showed it with the Hawks, and he showed it his first year with us. I think he will be great somewhere else after getting rejuvenated during a break. But he has gotten stale and predictable. He has obvious flaws and Bucks fans will focus on his failures despite instantly taking the team to the next level and have having by far the best record in the NBA in the past 5 years (no ones even close).

Not saying you are wrong on Nurse, just weird you would listen to the Raptors board of all things

[Matches Malone]

You're going to China, buddy.

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[Ron Swanson]

Jae's purpose was to play basketball, and unfortunately, he sucked very badly at it.

[Turk Nowitzki]

I was waiting for a Crowder story to pop up. Giving up the five 2nds for him to be the "missing piece" and then just having him ride the bench all series is pretty embarrassing.

Not even saying it was the wrong decision to not play him, just that it was embarrassing.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Yeah I had a feeling Jae was going to say something, he can't seem to help himself. Truth is homie cost himself a chunk of money with his hissy fit about Johnson starting and if he was being honest with himself he's probably embarrassed.

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[Prez]

He was a massive disappointment in the playoffs but he showed enough in his limited RS time that I’d still be interested in bringing him back if it’s cheap, with a full season and training camp under a new coach (hopefully). If he’s asking for anything not cheap then yeah I’m out.

[BUCKnation]

I don't think I'm going to care as much about the team next year in regular season. I'll still try to watch what I can, since I don't want to take a player like Giannis for granted, but the gulf between the regular season and postseason has never been bigger.

It was truly sickening watching a Miami team who was awful for 83.8 games this season turn into what looked like a legitimate finals contender. They could barely break 100 in those play in games.

The league in its current state is so diverse in talent that it's just jockeying for playoff seeds that don't really matter as it seems home court means less and less. Like what's the point in caring a bunch about a regular season that clearly doesn't matter. I know we've already mostly figured this out, but I thought you could still draw things from it.

I kind of feel like what Russillo described in his pod last week when he talked about going through an existential crisis. We watch for months and try to make opinions and care, but what is all for. It's basically pre season.

[BUCKnation]

Also, I'd be fine with Rozier as a target. Masai being all high and mighty at the deadline screwed us out of FVV, and I don't think he's an option as an FA. IIRC, we had the best offer, but he passed and will likely lose him for nothing.

I'm not sure Rozier would be the PG we need in terms of distribution, but he could free up Jrue as the main ball handler, he is a proven very good shooter and not afraid of being the guy if needed. His efficiency tanked this year, but Charlotte lost all of their scorers for significant amounts of time this season, so I'm willing to let that go. Would be a nice upgrade if we wanted to consolidate some of the bench.

[skones]

He was a massive disappointment in the playoffs but he showed enough in his limited RS time that I’d still be interested in bringing him back if it’s cheap, with a full season and training camp under a new coach (hopefully). If he’s asking for anything not cheap then yeah I’m out.

We need youth, not vets aging out.