OT: Leafs/NHL Thread

[ruckus]

My bad. I'll jump back off the bandwagon.

[Dr Positivity]

That game was pretty even but Tampa deserved one for some of the ones Toronto stole, and their goalie advantage finally showed up. Worried that Kucherov-Point-Stamkos have a huge game 6, they've been shockingly invisible and you can't hold them down for the whole series. I heard it said game 6 is the one for the stars, game 7 is when the Brandon Paul type guy gets game winner.

Matthew Knies looks like a great piece going forward.

The core being 0-10 in series clinching games is UNBELIEVABLE.

[sycammer]

The same problem with the leafs for the past 20 years - pretending like NHL contenders when not good enough to win 1st round

[Scott Hall]

Read on Twitter

[deeps6x]

Can you please start and finish your game on time? I'm tired of missing Oilers goals because the Toronto Sports Network has to show me meaningless minutes of a Leafs game.

Thanks!

[GQStylin]

Always had a problem with Leafs defense as a group. Poor transition. Unless you're blind, Giordano/Holl are horrible. But being capped out every year limits your options. That's why Dubas failure in the draft (while giving picks away) is the real root of problems. You can get quality dmen in the 2nd-4th rounds and he has failed to do so.

Gio is still decent, but he definitely made some mistakes during the series and at his age isn't the same player he use to be. Holl isn't completely bad, but Liljegren is definitely better than him at this point and there's no reason why he shouldn't be in game 6 after how Holl played in game 5.

Also I disagree that Dubas 'failed' in the draft when he's done the exact opposite and has found promising players outside of the 1st round which our past GMs have failed to do in any significant way. Liljegren and Timmins are quality young Dmen who are ready for fulltime jobs with the Leafs as soon as they have spots for them and Topi Niemela is a good Dman prospect with the Marlies that could be ready for the NHL in a year or two.

If there's one thing that Dubas has done a pretty decent job of during his time as Leafs GM its rebuilding an almost non-existent prospect pool that have a good shot at making the NHL in the near future.

[Los_29]

Lightning have outplayed the Leafs in this series. I don’t know if Jon Cooper is just blatantly out coaching Keefe or if the Lightning are just the better team. Whatever it is, it’s pretty worrisome.

[GQStylin]

Dang I wonder what Bruins fans are thinking when their team was up 3-1 in the series and now they're going to a game 7. I mean it wouldn't be a surprise if the Leafs had to play a game 7, but I didn't expect the Bruins to have to play a game 7 even though I still think they'll win in the end. Would be pretty damn insane for them to be knocked out of the playoffs in the 1st round after dominating in the regular season so much.

[Raps in 4]

It's nice to see Boston choking for a change. If they blow game 7, this might go down as the biggest choke in NHL history. Best regular season team of all time goes up 3-1 to the bottom seed only to choke the series away. Would be incredible.

**** Boston.

[Green Backpack]

Bruins are choking but I think they'll take it at home in 7.

I am so nervous for tonight. Not sure why we do this to ourselves folks.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Always had a problem with Leafs defense as a group. Poor transition. Unless you're blind, Giordano/Holl are horrible. But being capped out every year limits your options. That's why Dubas failure in the draft (while giving picks away) is the real root of problems. You can get quality dmen in the 2nd-4th rounds and he has failed to do so.

Gio is still decent, but he definitely made some mistakes during the series and at his age isn't the same player he use to be. Holl isn't completely bad, but Liljegren is definitely better than him at this point and there's no reason why he shouldn't be in game 6 after how Holl played in game 5.

Also I disagree that Dubas 'failed' in the draft when he's done the exact opposite and has found promising players outside of the 1st round which our past GMs have failed to do in any significant way. Liljegren and Timmins are quality young Dmen who are ready for fulltime jobs with the Leafs as soon as they have spots for them and Topi Niemela is a good Dman prospect with the Marlies that could be ready for the NHL in a year or two.

If there's one thing that Dubas has done a pretty decent job of during his time as Leafs GM its rebuilding an almost non-existent prospect pool that have a good shot at making the NHL in the near future.

Liljegrin was Lou's pick. Timmins was a FA signing. They went out at the deadline to bring in two more D men to bump these guys and Sandin, who then was flipped for picks. The only defenseman they've brought up and 'developed' is Holl, who is in his 30s and has been on the ice for like 75% of Tampa's goals this series. Oh, and they traded for Jared McCann just so that the Kraken wouldn't take Holl!

At least in this series the core players that Dubas inherited (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly) have all shown up. Makes it even more obvious that if they lose here Dubas needs to go.

[6ixset]

If I prepare myself now, before game 6, for an eventual game 7 heartbreak - will it hurt any less?

[WaltFrazier]

Bruins are choking but I think they'll take it at home in 7.

I am so nervous for tonight. Not sure why we do this to ourselves folks.

Just as the Celtics were guaranteed game 7 if the Hawks had ever won game 6.

Sitting in Fort Meyers airport, Toronto at 3, home in time to watch the game. Hardly watch hockey all year but this is big tonight. A game 7 will be excruciating

[will]

Bruins are choking but I think they'll take it at home in 7.

I am so nervous for tonight. Not sure why we do this to ourselves folks.

Just as the Celtics were guaranteed game 7 if the Hawks had ever won game 6.

Sitting in Fort Meyers airport, Toronto at 3, home in time to watch the game. Hardly watch hockey all year but this is big tonight. A game 7 will be excruciating

Is it a Chuck garrrunteee?

[Rapsin6]

A bit off topic but yesterday was the first game Phil Kessel has missed since 2009 in a sport far more physically demanding than basketball. This year, 10 players played all their games in the NBA. When do we stop the myth that 37 minutes a game is too much for a basketball player and 3 less minutes will save a player from injuries and breakdowns. Injuries happen regardless but the benefits of fewer minutes and load management are minimal.

Put another way, if a person goes for a jog for 35 minutes a day, then after a few months decide to go for an extra 3 minutes, those extra 3 minutes aren’t the difference between good jog and knee issues. The knee issues would have very likely occurred anyway.

Basketball players are just soft and with over use of load management, they have forgotten they are in the entertainment business and are pissing off the customer. Joel Embiid sitting out vs Jokic was ridiculous.

End of rant. GO LEAFS!!!

[ItsDanger]

Always had a problem with Leafs defense as a group. Poor transition. Unless you're blind, Giordano/Holl are horrible. But being capped out every year limits your options. That's why Dubas failure in the draft (while giving picks away) is the real root of problems. You can get quality dmen in the 2nd-4th rounds and he has failed to do so.

Gio is still decent, but he definitely made some mistakes during the series and at his age isn't the same player he use to be. Holl isn't completely bad, but Liljegren is definitely better than him at this point and there's no reason why he shouldn't be in game 6 after how Holl played in game 5.

Also I disagree that Dubas 'failed' in the draft when he's done the exact opposite and has found promising players outside of the 1st round which our past GMs have failed to do in any significant way. Liljegren and Timmins are quality young Dmen who are ready for fulltime jobs with the Leafs as soon as they have spots for them and Topi Niemela is a good Dman prospect with the Marlies that could be ready for the NHL in a year or two.

If there's one thing that Dubas has done a pretty decent job of during his time as Leafs GM its rebuilding an almost non-existent prospect pool that have a good shot at making the NHL in the near future.

Dubas has been the GM at draft since 2018, AGM before that. Look back at their draft record, its beyond horrible. Nobody expects perfection, but you got to nail 1 or 2 guys in rounds 2-4, that separates the good GMs from the mediocre to below average GMs. Fire the entire scouting staff.

[mdenny]

Victor Hedman is the most impactful player on the ice every game I've watched.

When's the last time the leafs had a top 5 defenseman? Gotta be Borje Salming. When's the last time they had a top 10 defenseman? Might be Salming too.

Those stud defenseman are so huge in the playoffs because they play half the game. Not many teams win the cup without one and the leafs haven't had one for close to 40 years lol.

I mean...each team should have a top 5 d-man once every 6 years. The leafs HAVE to be on the only franchise to have gone that long without one.

It's the equivalent of rolling a die 35 to 40 times and never rolling a 6. Extremely unlikely to not even luck into one.

The only team I can think of to win a cup without a top 5 d-man would be the penguins. But Letang may have been flirting with top 10. All the other cup winners had a doughty or a Lidstrom or neidermeyer or a Hedman.

[Dr Positivity]

Bruins fans are in absolute panac/shambles mode

[GQStylin]

Liljegrin was Lou's pick. Timmins was a FA signing. They went out at the deadline to bring in two more D men to bump these guys and Sandin, who then was flipped for picks. The only defenseman they've brought up and 'developed' is Holl, who is in his 30s and has been on the ice for like 75% of Tampa's goals this series. Oh, and they traded for Jared McCann just so that the Kraken wouldn't take Holl!

At least in this series the core players that Dubas inherited (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly) have all shown up. Makes it even more obvious that if they lose here Dubas needs to go.

Liljegren was Mark Hunter's pick when he was still here as head of scouting I believe. Also if you're talking about development in general then Liljegren, Sandin and Holl were all developed by the Leafs. Also the additions of McCabe and Schenn were good in adding size and toughness to the defense and I have no problems with what Dubas gave up for them. Holl I don't know why Keefe loves him so much, but he should sit and not play for the forseeable future.

Marner was a Dubas/Hunter pick I believe when at the time Babcock wanted to draft Hanafin. Nylander and Rielly were already here before Lou entered the picture so the core was constructed with little input from Lou. At any rate having a good core isn't enough in hockey unlike having 2-3 star players in the NBA will always likely get you automatically into the playoffs and probably win at least a couple of rounds of playoff wins. Lou might've left Dubas with a good core, but he also left him with the Zaitzev and Marleau issues and not a very good supporting cast and if you looked at his trade deadline deals they were all crap and didn't move the needle at all in improving the team for the playoffs.

Dubas has not only improved the Leafs, but he also helped rebuild a non-existent prospect pool and put in place a good scouting team to try and find decent players everywhere. These are things that Lou and most every other previous Leafs GM never did or they did it very poorly. I would re-sign Dubas based on his current work regardless of the lack of playoff success, but if he does leave at least he's left the team with a good foundation to continue to build from.

[GQStylin]

Dubas has been the GM at draft since 2018, AGM before that. Look back at their draft record, its beyond horrible. Nobody expects perfection, but you got to nail 1 or 2 guys in rounds 2-4, that separates the good GMs from the mediocre to below average GMs. Fire the entire scouting staff.

How many GMs in the league have had very good/great drafting success since 2018 where one or two guys per year in rounds 2-4 have developed into an NHL regular player or were looking like future NHL players? I don't think very many, but I have no problems with being proven wrong if you can show me which GMs in the league drafted as well as you specified.