Bam since becoming a starter (4 years) vs Bosh Heat tenure (6 years)

3ammy3uck3ts · Post #1 » by **3ammy3uck3ts** » Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:27 pm

Yes I realize Bosh went to 4 finals and won 2 championships in his tenure next to Wade and LeBron but Bam outside of Jimmy hasn’t been blessed with that level of talent. I wanted to discuss more of their overall impact and production to the team in a very similar role as the 3rd scoring option. You’ll see their shooting attempts and usage are nearly identical year after year.

This is not a comparison to Boshs Raptor years as he was the 1st option and we have got very limited data of Bam in that role.

Bam (last 4 seasons) vs Bosh (6 seasons with Miami):

Bosh: Big 3 era (3rd option)

Pts-Reb-Ast-Blk-Stl format

2010-2011: 18.7-8.3-1.9-0.8-0.6 on 49.6% shooting, .569 TS%, 13.7 shots a game (0.3 from 3) 6.1 FTA at 81.5% in 36.3 minutes a game

Bosh had 23.5 usage this season, .177 WS/48, 1.2 BPM (1.4 offense, -0.2 defense) 2.3 VORP, 19.4 PER

2011-2012: 18.0-7.9-1.8-0.9-0.8 on 48.7% shooting, .551 TS%, 14.2 shots a game (0.6 from 3) 4.9 FTA at 82.1% in 35.2 minutes a game

Bosh had a 24.2 usage this season, .165 WS/48, 0.8 BPM (1.0 offense, -0.2 defense) 1.4 VORP, 18.9 PER

2012-2013: 16.6-6.8-1.7-0.9-1.4 on 53.5% shooting, .592 TS%, 12.3 shots a game (1.0 from 3) 4.1 FTA at 79.8% in 33.2 minutes a game

Bosh had a 22.7 usage this season, .175 WS/48, 1.3 BPM (1.5 offense, -0.2 defense) 2.1 VORP, 20.0 PER

2013-2014: 16.2-6.6-1.1-1.0-1.0 on 51.6% shooting, .597 TS%, 12.1 shots a game (2.8 from 3 at 34%) 3.4 FTA at 82% in 32 minutes a game

Bosh had a 22.6 usage this season, .152 WS/48, 0.8 BPM (1.3 offense, -0.5 defense) 1.8 VORP, 19.0 PER

Bosh: Post Big 3 Era (2nd Option)

2014-2015: 21.1-7.0-2.1-0.9-0.6 on 46% shooting, .548 TS%, 16.9 shots a game (3.8 from 3 at 37.5%) 5.3 FTA at 77.2% in 35.4 minutes a game

Bosh had a 28.4 usage this season, .111 WS/48, 1.2 BPM (2.5 offense, -1.3 defense) 1.3 VORP, 19.8 PER

2015-2016: 19.1-7.4-2.4-0.7-0.6 on 46.7% shooting, .571 TS%, 14.5 shots a game (4.2 from 3 at 36.5%) 5.1 FTA at 79.5% in 33.5 minutes a game

Bosh had a 24.7 usage this season, .172 WS/48, 4.0 BPM (3.6 offense, 0.4 defense) 2.7 VORP, 20.2 PER

Chris Bosh playoff stats with (Miami 78 games): 14.9-7.3-1.1-1.1-0.8 on 48.1% shooting on 11.6 shots a game (1.6 from 3 at 40.6%) 3.8 FTA at 79% in 34.7 MPG

Bam stats since becoming a starter (3rd option):

2019-2020: 15.9-10.2-5.1-1.1-1.3 on 55.7% shooting, .598 TS%, 11.0 shots a game, 5.3 FTA at 69.1% in 33.6 minutes a game

Bam had a 21.2 usage this season, .168 WS/48, 3.4 BPM (1.4 offense, 2.0 defense) 3.3 VORP, 20.3 PER

2020-2021: 18.7-9.0-5.4-1.2-1.0 on 57% shooting, .626 TS%, 12.5 shots a game, 5.5 FTA at 79.9% in 33.5 minutes a game

Bam had a 23.7 usage this season, .197 WS/48, 4.9 BPM (2.9 offense, 2.0 defense) 3.7 VORP, 22.7 PER

2021-2022: 19.1-10.1-3.4-1.4-0.8 on 55.7% shooting, .608 TS%, 13.0 shots a game, 6.1 FTA at 75.3% in 32.6 minutes a game

Bam had a 25.0 usage this season, .188 WS/48, 3.8 BPM (1.7 offense, 2.1 defense) 2.7 VORP, 21.8 PER

2022-2023: 20.4-9.2-3.2-1.2-0.8 on 54% shooting, .592 TS%, 14.9 shots a game, 5.4 FTA at 80.6% in 34.6 minutes a game

Bam had a 25.2 usage this season, .137 WS/48, 1.6 BPM (0.8 offense, 0.8 defense) 2.3 VORP, 20.1 PER

Bam playoff stats as a starter (43 games): 16.4-9.1-3.7-1.0-0.7 on 56.2% shooting, 11.3 shots a game, 4.8 FTA at 76.9% in 34.8 MPG

Especially when factoring in Bam being the better overall defender between the 2, he has been the better regular season and playoff performer between the 2 whether Bosh was the 3rd or 2nd option. Bams regular and advanced metrics both trump Boshs.

Bam is the better rebounder, passer, defender, scorer in the paint, and better at getting to the free throw line. Bosh right now is the better mid range shooter and 3 point shooter, he also made his free throws at a slightly better clip.

Bosh peaked in his overall development when he became a great 3 point shooter at 29-30, Bam is currently 25 and improving every single season. If that continues this won’t even be up for discussion as long as he stays in a Heat jersey.

Need Bam to get his 3 point attempts and percentages up to where Bosh was his final 2 years in Miami, that would take him to a whole other level and help the team a ton.

I don’t think you can go wrong either way and I think regardless of which way you go it doesn’t lean too far in that players favor but in my opinion it’s Bam as a starter >>>> Miami Heat Bosh. I hope he can start getting the accolades to add up and continue to develop and add to his game as he gets older. He’s still younger than Bosh was when he came to Miami.

Post #2 » by **KingDavid** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:10 pm

Added poll.

As of now, I'm still leaning towards Bosh, but we're missing data due to his injury retirement. I don't know if Bam would have been better in place of Bosh with the Big 3, but Bosh today would create way more space for Jimmy and other slashers to get to the rim as he was a threat from 3 levels.

But it's also early for Bam. Don't know what his next improvement will be.

Enso · Post #3 » by **Enso** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:12 pm

Bump

For the record to be clear OP believes Bam is a better overall player than Bosh, and is using their stats as starters for the Heat to prove his point.

I'd personally go with Bosh in most scenarios but it depends what kind of big you need to fit the particular team your building.

Would be curious so see what others he're think especially raps fans who saw him play for many years as well.

LakersLegacy · Post #4 » by **LakersLegacy** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:16 pm

Bosh was a poor rebounder and he is a better rebounder, so…

Saints14 · Post #5 » by **Saints14** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:19 pm

Spoiler:

The RS numbers are close - Bosh with a scoring edge and Bam with playmaking - but you have to go Bosh for how he helped them in the playoffs

Michael Jordan · Post #6 » by **Michael Jordan** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:22 pm

Bosh was the better fit beside Wade and Lebron; they needed scoring + spacing more.

Bam is the better defender and still only 25 not even at his ceiling yet.

Trey24 · Post #7 » by **Trey24** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:38 pm

I do not have to look at data to know that Bosh was better. Heat win 0 Champs without him.

iLLmatic860 · Post #8 » by **iLLmatic860** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:39 pm

Im not even convinced that Bam would give us a proper champagne celebration if the heat won the title

Enso · Post #9 » by **Enso** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:41 pm

iLLmatic860 wrote:Im not even convinced that Bam would give us a proper champagne celebration if the heat won the title

lol

LarsV8 · Post #10 » by **LarsV8** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:43 pm

Completely different tiers of players.

Bosh >>>>> Bam

Lockdown504090 · Post #11 » by **Lockdown504090** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:46 pm

bam better at everything but shooting and creating his shot and one of the top 5 defenders of this gen.

kenwood3333 · Post #12 » by **kenwood3333** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:51 pm

If you swap them to their respective team, will the result be better or worse.

James/Wade/Bam > James/Wade/Bosh?

Jimmy/Bosh > Jimmy/Bam?

Bosh proved he is capable of adjusting his physical and mental game to fit the team's need. Can Bam do the same?

3ammy3uck3ts · Post #13 » by **3ammy3uck3ts** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:52 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:bam better at everything but shooting and creating his shot and one of the top 5 defenders of this gen.

This is a basically where I’m at. Bams better at everything outside of shooting 16+ feet out.

3ammy3uck3ts · Post #14 » by **3ammy3uck3ts** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:54 pm

And to be clear I’m comparing what they did on their roles as 3rd options on the Heat. Bam did everything better, including scoring on much better efficiency. This isn’t comparing to Toronto Bosh or if you swap Bam and Bosh on the big 3 do they win more the same or less championships because fit matters. I’m just curious in their respective roles

3ammy3uck3ts · Post #15 » by **3ammy3uck3ts** » Tue May 2, 2023 9:55 pm

LarsV8 wrote:Completely different tiers of players.

Bosh >>>>> Bam

But what can you back this take with?

MarcusBrody · Post #16 » by **MarcusBrody** » Tue May 2, 2023 10:02 pm

Michael Jordan wrote:Bosh was the better fit beside Wade and Lebron; they needed scoring + spacing more.

Bam is the better defender and still only 25 not even at his ceiling yet.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't take Bam on defense - I love him and probably would - but Bosh was a great defender for those Big 3 era Heat teams. When crunchtime came, they ran a super aggressive, trap and recover defense and Bosh's speed and versatility was key to it. He was able to flash out or double then rotate back either with his man or to close out another. LeBron was at his peak in terms of defenes, but it was really Bosh's versatility from the frontcourt position that let the system work. I think Bam actually would be similarly useful in the system, but I just think that Bosh's defensive contribution gets somewhat underrated at times.

3ammy3uck3ts · Post #17 » by **3ammy3uck3ts** » Tue May 2, 2023 10:02 pm

We just saw Bam close out the bucks in game 5 next to Jimmy with a 20 point triple double while holding the most dominant player in the world to 1-8 shooting in the 4th quarter and OT. I don’t think Bosh can give you that same 2 way impact. Bam has many playoff games in a Heat jersey better than Bosh

3ammy3uck3ts · Post #18 » by **3ammy3uck3ts** » Tue May 2, 2023 10:04 pm

MarcusBrody wrote:
Michael Jordan wrote:Bosh was the better fit beside Wade and Lebron; they needed scoring + spacing more.

Bam is the better defender and still only 25 not even at his ceiling yet.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't take Bam on defense - I love him and probably would - but Bosh was a great defender for those Big 3 era Heat teams. When crunchtime game, they ran a super aggressive, trap and recover defense and Bosh's speed and versatility was key to it. He was able to flash out or double then rotate back either with his man or to close out another. LeBron was at his peak in terms of defenes, but it was really Bosh's versatility from the frontcourt position that let the system work. I think Bam actually would be similarly useful in the system, but I just think that Bosh's defensive contribution gets somewhat underrated at times.

Bosh was elite at defending the pick n roll for sure

Post #19 » by **ken6199** » Tue May 2, 2023 10:09 pm

Trey24 wrote:I do not have to look at data to know that Bosh was better. Heat win 0 Champs without him.

OP did all the homework to back up his claim.

You on the other hand, "didn't have to look at data", and with a bad ass "Heat win 0 without Bosh" statement, came in like a boss.

Trey24 · Post #20 » by **Trey24** » Tue May 2, 2023 10:12 pm

ken6199 wrote:
Trey24 wrote:I do not have to look at data to know that Bosh was better. Heat win 0 Champs without him.

OP did all the homework to back up his claim.

You on the other hand, "didn't have to look at data", and with a bad ass "Heat win 0 without Bosh" statement, came in like a boss.

I mean I have lived it and watched them both on that team haha data is in my DNA I guess LOL

Which player has been better for the Miami Heat?