Khris Middleton Contract Discussion (and Poll)

[machu46]

I think if we let him walk for nothing, our title window is shut. If we sign him for 4/$160, there's probably a decent chance our title window is shut but it's not 100%. Therefore, we should sign him, even if it costs 4/$160.

[MoreTrife]

Feel like a Bahktiari-style off season piece is incoming where he reveals he got another cleanup procedure in his knee after the season ended and how the season was a constant grind of knee drains and rehab and never felt right but wanted to play, etc.

[Plossum]

Yeah looking again at our cap sheet we really have no way of coming close to replacing him if we let him go. My only worry is if we re-sign and he’s well past his best, we have to give up that 29 1st at a minimum to rid ourselves of the deal.

Is maintaining that salary slot potentially worth one or two firsts in a couple of years if things don’t work out?

[machu46]

Yeah looking again at our cap sheet we really have no way of coming close to replacing him if we let him go. My only worry is if we re-sign and he’s well past his best, we have to give up that 29 1st at a minimum to rid ourselves of the deal.

Is maintaining that salary slot potentially worth one or two firsts in a couple of years if things don’t work out?

I think the answer is pretty easily yes.


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[Plossum]

I think you’re right. We really have no other path to adding the necessary talent to win.

[WRau1]

This is probably the easiest of the decisions to make this offseason, of course you resign him. Can't lose that salary slot.

[benultimate]

If he's getting a mammoth deal like that then please Horsty, work out how to shoehorn a Team Option or partial guarantee in there. Need some sort of safety parachute if he completely falls off the cliff. Also could help salvage some trade value if he's able to wiped from the books in a couple of years.

[LittleRooster]

This is probably the easiest of the decisions to make this offseason, of course you resign him. Can't lose that salary slot.

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[paulpressey25]

If Khris walks, Bucks are at about $114 million of salaries assuming Carter opts out. Cap will be $134 million. Lux tax of $162 million. The 2nd apron, where we lose the tax-payer MLE, etc will be about $180 million.

Someone creative might be able to retool this on the fly and avoid the repeater.

[Diggr14]

Agree on a S&T. Some playoff bound team will throw away a few firsts at him for us not to sign.

[Diggr14]

This is probably the easiest of the decisions to make this offseason, of course you resign him. Can't lose that salary slot.

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You can sign and trade him. Bring back matching salary and picks. We need to do this. Kha$h is washed.

[-Jragon-]

I get it... the point is that if we don't sign Khris we can't use that money to sign anyone else anyways.. it encourages teams to keep their players and build with them.. but what a messed up system that someone on the verge of being washed and just got outplayed by journeymen is about to get 140 million... what a world we live in..

[jschligs]

I get it... the point is that if we don't sign Khris we can't use that money to sign anyone else anyways.. it encourages teams to keep their players and build with them.. but what a messed up system that someone on the verge of being washed and just got outplayed by journeymen is about to get 140 million... what a world we live in..

I mean I wouldn't really say he was outplayed by journeymen to be honest.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

If Khris walks, Bucks are at about $114 million of salaries assuming Carter opts out. Cap will be $134 million. Lux tax of $162 million. The 2nd apron, where we lose the tax-payer MLE, etc will be about $180 million.

Someone creative might be able to retool this on the fly and avoid the repeater.

I would love to see the math of how the difference between repeater salary $175m again + tax penalty - Revenues from being a competitive team compared to $130m payroll - tax money received - revenue from a bad team.

All arguments besides money aside, are we more or less probably trying to win?

[paulpressey25]

I get it... the point is that if we don't sign Khris we can't use that money to sign anyone else anyways..

We'd have about $20 million in cap room if Middleton left, and we renounced the rights to Brook Lopez and Jevon opts out also. But then we're losing Middleton, Brook and Jevon for essentially $20 million in cap space. So that's a non-starter.

However, the new 2nd apron penalties number will be approximately $180 million ($162 million luxury tax + $17.5 million apron). If you go over that number, the following restrictions kick-in:

-Bucks cannot send out cash in trades
-Bucks cannot trade first-round picks that are more than six years into the future (I think that takes our 2029 #1 off the table until 2024)
-Bucks cannot make trades in which they take back more salary than they send out
-No taxpayer MLE (like we used to sign Ingles with)
-No Buyout market signings

Also, I think if we are in the tax this upcoming year, we enter the repeater tax, which tacks an extra $1 million for every million we are over the luxury tax line.

TL:DR - Paying Khris $30 million a year versus $40 million could end up being a big deal, if you want to retain Lopez, Ingles, Crowder, Jevon or some combination of them. And also if you want to make other trades as well.

[ShootingtheJ]

This is probably the easiest of the decisions to make this offseason, of course you resign him. Can't lose that salary slot.

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You can sign and trade him. Bring back matching salary and picks. We need to do this. Kha$h is washed.

Sorry, but the rules only allow us take take back half the salary we send out in a sign and trade. The team acquiring Khris will likely need to do salary matching, which means a 3rd team will need to be involved to make a legal deal.

Also, historically, sign and trade deals that do not include RFAs have netted very little return. The Jimmy Butler and Kyle Lowry deals are examples of this.

[machu46]

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You can sign and trade him. Bring back matching salary and picks. We need to do this. Kha$h is washed.

Sorry, but the rules only allow us take take back half the salary we send out in a sign and trade. The team acquiring Khris will likely need to do salary matching, which means a 3rd team will need to be involved to make a legal deal.

Also, historically, sign and trade deals that do not include RFAs have netted very little return. The Jimmy Butler and Kyle Lowry deals are examples of this.

Is this true about taking half back? I thought so too but then I read something the other day that said that only applies if Middleton were getting a 20% raise or something like that. So if that’s true, we just need Middleton’s first year salary to be under $46 mil I believe to avoid the BYC rule.

I do agree that the return on such deals is generally very disappointing.

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[emunney]

I get it... the point is that if we don't sign Khris we can't use that money to sign anyone else anyways.. it encourages teams to keep their players and build with them.. but what a messed up system that someone on the verge of being washed and just got outplayed by journeymen is about to get 140 million... what a world we live in..

Ehhh, this is only half right. I do think he's on the *verge* of being washed because of his knee, but he didn't get outplayed by journeymen. He had some very visible defensive problems but was great overall. If I knew I was getting that player for the next four years, I'd have no problem paying him whatever.

[paulpressey25]

Sorry, but the rules only allow us take take back half the salary we send out in a sign and trade. The team acquiring Khris will likely need to do salary matching, which means a 3rd team will need to be involved to make a legal deal.

I'm not sure that is accurate. I think the team receiving Middleton is hard capped at the apron, and can't go over it with taking on Middleton's salary. The first apron looks to be $169 million payroll ($162 million tax + $7 million apron). I think we can take back whatever Khris salary is. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

[ShootingtheJ]

You can sign and trade him. Bring back matching salary and picks. We need to do this. Kha$h is washed.

Sorry, but the rules only allow us take take back half the salary we send out in a sign and trade. The team acquiring Khris will likely need to do salary matching, which means a 3rd team will need to be involved to make a legal deal.

Also, historically, sign and trade deals that do not include RFAs have netted very little return. The Jimmy Butler and Kyle Lowry deals are examples of this.

Is this true about taking half back? I thought so too but then I read something the other day that said that only applies if Middleton were getting a 20% raise or something like that. So if that’s true, we just need Middleton’s first year salary to be under $46 mil I believe to avoid the BYC rule.

I do agree that the return on such deals is generally very disappointing.

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Hmm, I didn't think about it from that angle, good question. The 20% raise wouldn't apply here.

The real trick is getting a team to compensate us for the deal. Khris is worth a ton if he opts in, but that isn't happening.