Is Fred VanFleet still on the agenda?

[MasterGMer]

Can someone explain the van vleet thing to me? Why would would pay max money to an undersized guard who's a below average defender who doesn't even shoot 40% from the field? And he's about to be on the wrong side of 30. Seems to me like a terrible contract waiting to happen that will severely limit our ability to build around Paulo/Franz going forward

What better option are you seeing that doesn't involve waiting for a star player to say they want to play with Orlando?

.

In this case we wait, the team is trending towards the right direction and there is no rush. Why tie max money to 29 yo FVF? This board gets obsessed w players.

I agree with you. I think everything is depended upon the draft lottery. If we have a Top 3 pick, it is over

[tiderulz]

Can someone explain the van vleet thing to me? Why would would pay max money to an undersized guard who's a below average defender who doesn't even shoot 40% from the field? And he's about to be on the wrong side of 30. Seems to me like a terrible contract waiting to happen that will severely limit our ability to build around Paulo/Franz going forward

What better option are you seeing that doesn't involve waiting for a star player to say they want to play with Orlando?

.

In this case we wait, the team is trending towards the right direction and there is no rush. Why tie max money to 29 yo FVF? This board gets obsessed w players.

who said max money?

[Audi]

What better option are you seeing that doesn't involve waiting for a star player to say they want to play with Orlando?

.

In this case we wait, the team is trending towards the right direction and there is no rush. Why tie max money to 29 yo FVF? This board gets obsessed w players.

who said max money?

Forget max money - who's replacing FVV at the critical time that Paolo and Franz are in their primes and he's looking for an extension while ~8 yrs older than the average PG? Best find a way to get our surefire starting PG of the future that will start building chemistry and grow with P&F through those prime years, over what is essentially a 4 year rental of a guy on the downside of his career.

[tiderulz]

In this case we wait, the team is trending towards the right direction and there is no rush. Why tie max money to 29 yo FVF? This board gets obsessed w players.

who said max money?

Forget max money - who's replacing FVV at the critical time that Paolo and Franz are in their primes and he's looking for an extension while ~8 yrs older than the average PG? Best find a way to get our surefire starting PG of the future that will start building chemistry and grow with P&F through those prime years, over what is essentially a 4 year rental of a guy on the downside of his career.

so we draft a young PG now, or pick one up to learn under FVV. or Cole develops. Who cares, you can pick up another 3rd option

[Skybox]

who said max money?

Forget max money - who's replacing FVV at the critical time that Paolo and Franz are in their primes and he's looking for an extension while ~8 yrs older than the average PG? Best find a way to get our surefire starting PG of the future that will start building chemistry and grow with P&F through those prime years, over what is essentially a 4 year rental of a guy on the downside of his career.

so we draft a young PG now, or pick one up to learn under FVV. or Cole develops. Who cares, you can pick up another 3rd option

IF we had the cojones to sign FVV, I'd feel a lot more comfortable drafting a young PG with potential like Amen or Black. The LAST thing Paolo and Franz need now is a baby PG learning his way (who can't shoot)...the only one I draft and confidently hand the reins to is Scoot...either way, someone's gotta go.

[Last Guardian]

Not sure why he ever was on the agenda. Hopefully it was just a rumor FVV agent started to get his price up. Can’t see the Magic being interested in a small sub 40% shooting drama queen. Raptors fans can’t wait to get rid of him but somehow we are a championship contender if we get him.

[jezzerinho]

Not sure why he ever was on the agenda. Hopefully it was just a rumor FVV agent started to get his price up. Can’t see the Magic being interested in a small sub 40% shooting drama queen. Raptors fans can’t wait to get rid of him but somehow we are a championship contender if we get him.

Nobody thinks FVV would make Orl a contender. Nobody. He makes them better though and when they are better they maybe start to unwrap the potential of the Wagner/Banchero duo and maybe attract real talent - at which point FVV can be moved on, or not.

[Skybox]

Not sure why he ever was on the agenda. Hopefully it was just a rumor FVV agent started to get his price up. Can’t see the Magic being interested in a small sub 40% shooting drama queen. Raptors fans can’t wait to get rid of him but somehow we are a championship contender if we get him.

Nobody thinks FVV would make Orl a contender. Nobody. He makes them better though and when they are better they maybe start to unwrap the potential of the Wagner/Banchero duo and maybe attract real talent - at which point FVV can be moved on, or not.

THIS...PG play improves everyone else's development. This is a PG league...FVV isn't forever but he takes us several notches forward. I'm a broken record but having a PG with so many limitations imposes limitations on the whole offense. If you're going to spend money, and you're a "developing" young team...spend it on a PG.

[Last Guardian]

Not sure why he ever was on the agenda. Hopefully it was just a rumor FVV agent started to get his price up. Can’t see the Magic being interested in a small sub 40% shooting drama queen. Raptors fans can’t wait to get rid of him but somehow we are a championship contender if we get him.

Nobody thinks FVV would make Orl a contender. Nobody. He makes them better though and when they are better they maybe start to unwrap the potential of the Wagner/Banchero duo and maybe attract real talent - at which point FVV can be moved on, or not.

Incorrect, in the Reaves/FVV thread it is stated that backcourt would contend.

Not sure in what world FVV makes this team better. He hogs it more than Cole and shoots even worse than he does while being far less athletic. Why get FVV if we can just start Cole…

And the people saying move on from Suggs Suggs defense alone is way more valuable than anything FVV does.

[pepe1991]

Not sure why he ever was on the agenda. Hopefully it was just a rumor FVV agent started to get his price up. Can’t see the Magic being interested in a small sub 40% shooting drama queen. Raptors fans can’t wait to get rid of him but somehow we are a championship contender if we get him.

Nobody thinks FVV would make Orl a contender. Nobody. He makes them better though and when they are better they maybe start to unwrap the potential of the Wagner/Banchero duo and maybe attract real talent - at which point FVV can be moved on, or not.

Incorrect, in the Reaves/FVV thread it is stated that backcourt would contend.

Not sure in what world FVV makes this team better. He hogs it more than Cole and shoots even worse than he does while being far less athletic. Why get FVV if we can just start Cole…

And the people saying move on from Suggs Suggs defense alone is way more valuable than anything FVV does.

Wait wait wait

Incorrect, in the Reaves/FVV thread it is stated that backcourt would contend.

Even if somebody said it, it's not like there was some mutal agreement on this. People just seek for alternatives to improve roster given Magic have bag of money in free agency.

Not sure in what world FVV makes this team better.

This one.

He hogs it more than Cole and shoots even worse than he does while being far less athletic. Why get FVV if we can just start Cole…

Falacy.
Both Fultz and Cole tend to hog ball more. Both of them average more seconds with ball per touch than Vleet.
In numbers Vleet at average holds ball for 4,56 seconds.
Fultz keeps ball for 4,94 sec
Cole keeps ball for 4,71 sec

In average dribbling per touch
Fultz is one of worst " looking to dribble over passing" players in nba ,averaging 4,62 dribbles per touch.
Vleet averages 4,17 dribbles per touch, Cole 4,10 per touch.

By assists adjusted to min, FVV still creates more assists than Cole and Fultz.

Why get FVV if we can just start Cole…

Because we know what happends when Cole plays against starters. He gets steamrolled. Cole is too weak & lacks awarness to defend space. He is best used as backup PG because his poor decision making on defense ( combined with his chucker mentality) doesn't blend well with duties of starting PG.

And the people saying move on from Suggs Suggs defense alone is way more valuable than anything FVV does.

That Jalen Suggs who as starting PG was big part of 30th ranked among 30 teams offense and by all metrics top 10 worst rotation playres as a rookie while playing position he supposed to be playing?
That Jalen Suggs that can't start over corpses of Gary Harris who scored in double figures 11 times whole season long?
Jalen Suggs, the guy who was THAT bad at PG that he was demoted from that position and played in role where it's easier to hide fact he can't dribble, pass nor make right decisions?

But he is 4th overall pick witch means he has unlimited ceiling . Yea, i know whole spiel of nonsense fans tend to talk themselfs into when they defend players who are objectivlly not good at basketball today.


Magic don't *need* Vleet. Magic don't *need* anybody. Magic can easly be lovable perrennial 45 wins- first round exit team with bunch of people who fans on forum like or think they will develop into something same players never showed they can be.
But if Magic *want* to be more than perrennial first round exit team, than they will need to find serious solution for their awful PG and SG starting position.

Who's left in playoffs?
Heat- Lowry & Butler
Knicks-Brunson & Barrett
76ers- Harden & Maxey
Celtics- Smart & Brown /White
Suns- CP3 and Booker
Warriors- Klay & Steph
Lakers- Russell & Reaves
Nuggets- Murray & KCP

Only teams who don't have allstars or superstar guards are teams with top 5 players on planet Earth.

We can argue is Vleet upgrade that will set Magic into new direction & change expetations. What we can't argue is fact that Vleet is massive upgrade over any alternatives Magic have on roster today. Both 3 "Point guards" Magic have are best suited for bench roles. All 3 are free agents over next 2 years, so even keeping 3 bench players will become expensive regardless.

[orlando_joe]

Not sure why he ever was on the agenda. Hopefully it was just a rumor FVV agent started to get his price up. Can’t see the Magic being interested in a small sub 40% shooting drama queen. Raptors fans can’t wait to get rid of him but somehow we are a championship contender if we get him.

Nobody thinks FVV would make Orl a contender. Nobody. He makes them better though and when they are better they maybe start to unwrap the potential of the Wagner/Banchero duo and maybe attract real talent - at which point FVV can be moved on, or not.

you cant move fvv on 30 mill a yr contract he wants thats the problem i have it could cost 2 first round picks and a yr of bad money contract as magic picks wont have much value after this yr

[jezzerinho]

Not sure why he ever was on the agenda. Hopefully it was just a rumor FVV agent started to get his price up. Can’t see the Magic being interested in a small sub 40% shooting drama queen. Raptors fans can’t wait to get rid of him but somehow we are a championship contender if we get him.

Nobody thinks FVV would make Orl a contender. Nobody. He makes them better though and when they are better they maybe start to unwrap the potential of the Wagner/Banchero duo and maybe attract real talent - at which point FVV can be moved on, or not.

you cant move fvv on 30 mill a yr contract he wants thats the problem i have it could cost 2 first round picks and a yr of bad money contract as magic picks wont have much value after this yr

You don't know that. It hasn't been the case with Paul, Dinwiddie, Lowry, Irving, Harden, CJ and unlikely to have been for Conley, Jrue, maybe not even Beal.

Wall was one that was a liability, but that was a combo of deal size and injuries. Suppose you could argue Westbrook? I'm sure there are others, but point being its just as likely FVV has neutral or positive value when we move him as negative.

[orlando_joe]

Nobody thinks FVV would make Orl a contender. Nobody. He makes them better though and when they are better they maybe start to unwrap the potential of the Wagner/Banchero duo and maybe attract real talent - at which point FVV can be moved on, or not.

you cant move fvv on 30 mill a yr contract he wants thats the problem i have it could cost 2 first round picks and a yr of bad money contract as magic picks wont have much value after this yr

You don't know that. It hasn't been the case with Paul, Dinwiddie, Lowry, Irving, Harden, CJ and unlikely to have been for Conley, Jrue, maybe not even Beal.

Wall was one that was a liability, but that was a combo of deal size and injuries. Suppose you could argue Westbrook? I'm sure there are others, but point being its just as likely FVV has neutral or positive value when we move him as negative.

i dont think thats true..most were signed by team that drafted them or played prime with them
not in same ball park as paul,irving,harden,cj or even beal but time will tell wash maybe stuck at this point as magic team why step into maybe stuck .come on..conley would have been traded long ago but for contract it took it to be exp and sent to team with gobert for a guy minn really wanted out.dinwiddle been bounce more then a pingpong ball always to move as filler neg value ...lowry heat would trade if they could .. imo team that signs him will want him gone in 2 yrs or less and for me fine with running with youth next yr and look at team next summer for holes to fill..again just me?

[Skybox]

Not sure why he ever was on the agenda. Hopefully it was just a rumor FVV agent started to get his price up. Can’t see the Magic being interested in a small sub 40% shooting drama queen. Raptors fans can’t wait to get rid of him but somehow we are a championship contender if we get him.

Nobody thinks FVV would make Orl a contender. Nobody. He makes them better though and when they are better they maybe start to unwrap the potential of the Wagner/Banchero duo and maybe attract real talent - at which point FVV can be moved on, or not.

you cant move fvv on 30 mill a yr contract he wants thats the problem i have it could cost 2 first round picks and a yr of bad money contract as magic picks wont have much value after this yr

Why move the best Magic PG since Penny?

[davey_wavy]

Meh who cares its not your money Orlando is spending. If He makes us better, then he makes us better. No more of this "organic growth" crap; sign some ballers and let's get playing. Yall are more worried about the payroll than the playoffs

[Skybox]

Meh who cares its not your money Orlando is spending. If He makes us better, then he makes us better. No more of this "organic growth" crap; sign some ballers and let's get playing. Yall are more worried about the payroll than the playoffs

Amen…there’s plenty of inexpensive players- there’s a reason

[orlando_joe]

Nobody thinks FVV would make Orl a contender. Nobody. He makes them better though and when they are better they maybe start to unwrap the potential of the Wagner/Banchero duo and maybe attract real talent - at which point FVV can be moved on, or not.

you cant move fvv on 30 mill a yr contract he wants thats the problem i have it could cost 2 first round picks and a yr of bad money contract as magic picks wont have much value after this yr

Why move the best Magic PG since Penny?

fultz

[orlando_joe]

Meh who cares its not your money Orlando is spending. If He makes us better, then he makes us better. No more of this "organic growth" crap; sign some ballers and let's get playing. Yall are more worried about the payroll than the playoffs

because it could stop magic from adding real difference maker over next 4 seasons i dont see fvv getting magic any farther in playoffs then without him ..could even hold them back in 2 yrs

[JT3000]

you cant move fvv on 30 mill a yr contract he wants thats the problem i have it could cost 2 first round picks and a yr of bad money contract as magic picks wont have much value after this yr

Why move the best Magic PG since Penny?

fultz

Backup.

[drsd]

Forget max money - who's replacing FVV at the critical time that Paolo and Franz are in their primes and he's looking for an extension while ~8 yrs older than the average PG? Best find a way to get our surefire starting PG of the future that will start building chemistry and grow with P&F through those prime years, over what is essentially a 4 year rental of a guy on the downside of his career.

Actually I believe the Magic would prosper from spreading out their age ranges. And as PG is the hardest job on the court, their is something to be said for maturity at this time.

((that said, I believe that Fultz is still the player best placed)).

My point is that having all five starters within 3 years of each other has risks as well.