Rui Hachimura 2.0

[tleikheen]

His career 3point % on basketball reference is .347
This year including time with us and the Lakers it’s .319

Now 2 games into his 3rd series ,5 games for the Wizards & 8 games for the lakers Hachimura is ..... 24 -42 ..... from the 3pt line for 57 percent in his playoff games . Obviously he steps up when the lights are brightest and everybody is watching he becomes money .

[Endless Loop]

First off, it'd be up to the coaching staff to work with Rui -- not Tommy!
Thus, for your point to float, there have to have been two different uninterested coaching staffs.

Plus, you write as if Rui had no responsibility for his own development. I don't buy that.

I wouldn't use the word "uninterested" coaching staffs. I'd use the word "incompetent".

Is it your view that neither Tommy (for failing to hold coaches accountable) nor coaches (who should have defined a role for the guy in order to help him maximize his potential) has responsibility for the fact that Rui seems to be a much better contributor for the Lakers than he was for the Wiz? That it's Rui's fault for not developing his potential for all those years with the Wiz, but then developing it during his few days with the Lakers?

In the end, if Rui continues to up his game, then the fault ultimately lies with Ted, because he sets the tone for the organization. He doesn't hold people accountable- for instance committing to WUJ for a third year before he hires a new GM even though the coaching staff was most responsible for not defining the right role for Rui.

[pcbothwel]

In the end, the choice was obvious. We should have traded Kuz and kept Rui.
1) Kuz was clearly the better player/more valuable asset and would have garnered us more in return.
2) With Rui being an RFA, we were much more in the driver seat for negotiations.

[nate33]

In the end, the choice was obvious. We should have traded Kuz and kept Rui.
1) Kuz was clearly the better player/more valuable asset and would have garnered us more in return.
2) With Rui being an RFA, we were much more in the driver seat for negotiations.

Yes. This is true.

My first choice would have been to trade both.
My second choice would have been to trade Kuzma and keep Rui.

Big gap.

My third choice would have been to keep Kuzma and trade Rui.
My fourth choice would have been to keep both (since it was impossible to pay them both this offseason).

Sheppard at least didn't do the worst possible thing. But he did the next worst possible thing.

[badinage]

To keep Rui = to pay him money he’s not worth and, ultimately, Juwaning him.

On another note, is it me or does he look markedly trimmer? He was lithe last night. Not a combo 3-4, either. A clear 3.

The Lakers are obviously working on him and not just with him, and have decided he’s a big wing not a PF.

[Endless Loop]

To keep Rui = to pay him money he’s not worth and, ultimately, Juwaning him.

On another note, is it me or does he look markedly trimmer? He was lithe last night. Not a combo 3-4, either. A clear 3.

The Lakers are obviously working on him and not just with him, and have decided he’s a big wing not a PF.

Reminds me of the brain trust that drafted Johnny Davis to be a point guard.

[deneem4]

In the end, the choice was obvious. We should have traded Kuz and kept Rui.
1) Kuz was clearly the better player/more valuable asset and would have garnered us more in return.
2) With Rui being an RFA, we were much more in the driver seat for negotiations.

Yes. This is true.

My first choice would have been to trade both.
My second choice would have been to trade Kuzma and keep Rui.

Big gap.

My third choice would have been to keep Kuzma and trade Rui.
My fourth choice would have been to keep both (since it was impossible to pay them both this offseason).

Sheppard at least didn't do the worst possible thing. But he did the next worst possible thing.

We should’ve kept both and allowed them to play together

[prime1time]

Did anyone watch the PG County Basketball documentary, "In the Water"? The sad reality is that for the Washington Wizards there is something "In the water" and I don't mean that in a good way. If we kept Rui, chances are great he probably wouldn't have achieved much in DC. People lodged numerous complaints at Hachimura and a lot of them were valid. But great organizations - and more specifically great players - figure out how to get the most out of players. Watching Rui on the court with LBJ is fascinating. It's like watching an old married couple who's come to grips and accepts the flaws of their partner.

LBJ knows who Rui is and who Rui is not. In one action, when LBJ is off ball and Austin Reaves has the ball, LBJ is staring out Rui trying to make eye contact while pointing to the spot on the floor where Rui needs to be. Who on the Wizards is going to do that? The Lakers are able to get more out of Rui because they put him in places to be successful and accept that he has strengths and weaknesses. Going forward the real question is what will being in such a positive environment do for Rui going forward? Hopefully he continues to work on and improve his game.

And this isn't even surprising. Look at all the players who have been run out of town. Javale McGee (multiple championships), Nick Young (championship), Otto Porter (championship) and Bobby Portis (championship) just to name a few. I expect that next offseason the same thing will happen with Avdija.

[Dat2U]

Regular season Rui was not worth keeping. Neither the Lakers or Wizards version. As the playoffs are a totally different beast, Rui's shot creation skills have become pretty useful when defenses are locked in and easy baskets are harder to come by.

I mentioned a few pages back that there's a decent list of guys who stepped up during the playoffs and it was the only times they stepped up. Hell Juan Dixon's greatest professional game came in the playoffs so its clear, you cannot always buy these postseason performances and assume it translates to 82 games.

I still prefer the (3) 2nd rounders to extending Rui for $15-20 mil to be an inconsistent backup PF.

[montestewart]

Regular season Rui was not worth keeping. Neither the Lakers or Wizards version. As the playoffs are a totally different beast, Rui's shot creation skills have become pretty useful when defenses are locked in and easy baskets are harder to come by.

I mentioned a few pages back that there's a decent list of guys who stepped up during the playoffs and it was the only times they stepped up. Hell Juan Dixon's greatest professional game came in the playoffs so its clear, you cannot always buy these postseason performances and assume it translates to 82 games.

I still prefer the (3) 2nd rounders to extending Rui for $15-20 mil to be an inconsistent backup PF.

I remember that game. I was sure the game was over and left the arena to get tickets for the next game at the box office. I couldn't get back in the arena and watched the scoreboard and the far end of the court through the glass doors on 6th St while Dixon traded threes with...the Bulls, right?

[Dat2U]

Regular season Rui was not worth keeping. Neither the Lakers or Wizards version. As the playoffs are a totally different beast, Rui's shot creation skills have become pretty useful when defenses are locked in and easy baskets are harder to come by.

I mentioned a few pages back that there's a decent list of guys who stepped up during the playoffs and it was the only times they stepped up. Hell Juan Dixon's greatest professional game came in the playoffs so its clear, you cannot always buy these postseason performances and assume it translates to 82 games.

I still prefer the (3) 2nd rounders to extending Rui for $15-20 mil to be an inconsistent backup PF.

I remember that game. I was sure the game was over and left the arena to get tickets for the next game at the box office. I couldn't get back in the arena and watched the scoreboard and the far end of the court through the glass doors on 6th St while Dixon traded threes with...the Bulls, right?

Yep that was the Bulls series.

[payitforward]

First off, it'd be up to the coaching staff to work with Rui -- not Tommy!
Thus, for your point to float, there have to have been two different uninterested coaching staffs.

Plus, you write as if Rui had no responsibility for his own development. I don't buy that.

I wouldn't use the word "uninterested" coaching staffs. I'd use the word "incompetent".

I was never a big fan of Brooks, but we did win 49 games one year with him as coach.

You have no evidence that the current coaching staff in incompetent. This is a bad team, a lousy roster. That is what we know.

...Rui seems to be a much better contributor for the Lakers than he was for the Wiz? That it's Rui's fault for not developing his potential for all those years with the Wiz, but then developing it during his few days with the Lakers?...

In his regular season minutes on the Lakers, Rui was somewhat improved from the earlier part of the season with us. Somewhat -- not "much improved." Sorry.

Still, better is better. So it's worth asking how he was improved

Was his scoring improved in his regular season games as a Laker?

No, it was worse -- please take in that fact!
In Rui's regular season minutes as a Laker, he scored fewer points per 40 minutes, & his TS% got worse.

Oh, & because he didn't have the ball in his hands much, Rui's assists went down. So that too got worse not better.

OTOH, his turnovers went down -- presumably for the same reason -- & that made up for the drop in assists.

So, what was it that got better? Basically, his rebounding went up some, especially his offensive rebounding. & that accounted for more or less the entirety of his regular season improvement w/ the Lakers over his play for us.

OTOH, Rui has had some very nice playoff games so far this year. It's not enough minutes to draw any long-term conclusions, but still it's nice to see good games.

...In the end, if Rui continues to up his game, then the fault ultimately lies with Ted, because he sets the tone for the organization. He doesn't hold people accountable....

I'm always happy to blame Ted! So, sure...! & either way -- b/c if Rui fails then we can blame Ted for the fact that we drafted him!

OTOH, the statement you make is oversimplified: for starters although Rui has had some good playoff outings, there's not enough evidence to conclude that he's "upped his game."

Most likely, we'll have to wait for his '23-24 season to tell us if he has become a good NBA player. OTOH, if he blows up & takes the Lakers to the title, why... wouldn't that be something?

That's absolutely what I hope will happen! & it's possible too.

[payitforward]

...I still prefer the (3) 2nd rounders to extending Rui for $15-20 mil to be an inconsistent backup PF.

Absolutely!

[tleikheen]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/rui-hachimura-is-becoming-star-in-front-of-lakers-eyes-in-the-2023-nba-playoffs/ar-AA1aN8JE .......

Mind blowing ,a guy that just turned 25 for your team that made 909-1898 (47.8 percent)of his shots and 155-436 (35 percent) of his 3pt shots is playing poorly for you and bad mouthed by the fans.
This is still pretty damn good shooting and then act stunned that this is his perceived ceiling by the same fans. Laker fans mock having to ONLY give up Nunn and 3 bottom tiered 2nd rounders for Rui and what he's doing for them

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/rui-hachimura-is-becoming-star-in-front-of-lakers-eyes-in-the-2023-nba-playoffs/ar-AA1aN8JE .......

Mind blowing ,a guy that just turned 25 for your team that made 909-1898 (47.8 percent)of his shots and 155-436 (35 percent) of his 3pt shots is playing poorly for you and bad mouthed by the fans.
This is still pretty damn good shooting and then act stunned that this is his perceived ceiling by the same fans. Laker fans mock having to ONLY give up Nunn and 3 bottom tiered 2nd rounders for Rui and what he's doing for them

He's been uber efficient these playoffs so far, so hats off to him for that but I'd hedge that LA is just trying to keep him motivated. He is not a star, more likely Jeff Green reincarnated. There's nothing wrong with that, and if he continues he can continue to be a decent spot starter and solid sixth man.

He still has issues with consistency, and while I've seen some clips with him playing some yeoman's man defense these playoffs, I still haven't seen enough to say that he offers much more than scoring on a consistent basis. Rebounds are still very very meh, assists nearly non-existent, blocks ditto, etc. Two of his three 20-point games off the bench these playoffs have come in 10- and 17-point losses.

As others have pointed to, at a heightened salary, it was just better to part ways with him when we did.

[payitforward]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/rui-hachimura-is-becoming-star-in-front-of-lakers-eyes-in-the-2023-nba-playoffs/ar-AA1aN8JE .......

Mind blowing ,a guy that just turned 25 for your team that made 909-1898 (47.8 percent)of his shots and 155-436 (35 percent) of his 3pt shots is playing poorly for you and bad mouthed by the fans.
This is still pretty damn good shooting and then act stunned that this is his perceived ceiling by the same fans. Laker fans mock having to ONLY give up Nunn and 3 bottom tiered 2nd rounders for Rui and what he's doing for them

Rui shot a .537 efg% for us this year. No that's not good.

He then shot a .525 regular-season efg% for the Lakers. Including a .296 3-point %. That's also not good. In fact, it's worse. Plus, it was on lower usage.

Those are just facts.

OTOH, he has had some terrific playoff games for the Lakers That's also a fact. & any normally thoughtful person would love to see him keep it up.

OTOH, if you keep blowing your out-ot-tune trumpet full of falsehoods, maybe it's time to shut this thread & talk about Rui in the "ex-Wizards" thread? Because that's what he is.

[gambitx777]

I agree with piff this thread needs locked. He turned down a fair extension offer. You guys always complain about not trading guys before you let them walk Tommy did that. Rui didn't have a ton of value because he hasn't played a ton of games over his first contract and he had inconsistent play. Lock the thread.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[WallToWall]

We did the right thing in trading Rui. He didnt do as well as expected and he was going to command a salary which we couldnt pay. The logical choice is to get the most value for him in trade. I dont agree with TS opinion that he did the trade to free up Avdija. I'll hold that discussion for later.

Rui may look good right now in a Lakers jersey. Maybe he is a late bloomer and we didnt wait long enough. I dont think so though. I think we saw all that he can do, and that he was quite limited defensively. He may grow his game a little more over time, but I doubt he will make the leap defensively to the point that he is not a defensive liability. He will remain wildly inconsistent on the offensive side. One game, he will have an incredible stat line, and the next two games, you'll wonder if he should be a basketball player.
Three 2nd rnd picks is good value for him. Lets move on. We have another thread for ex-Wizards players if/when we want to keep up with him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Did anyone watch the PG County Basketball documentary, "In the Water"? The sad reality is that for the Washington Wizards there is something "In the water" and I don't mean that in a good way. If we kept Rui, chances are great he probably wouldn't have achieved much in DC. People lodged numerous complaints at Hachimura and a lot of them were valid. But great organizations - and more specifically great players - figure out how to get the most out of players. Watching Rui on the court with LBJ is fascinating. It's like watching an old married couple who's come to grips and accepts the flaws of their partner.

LBJ knows who Rui is and who Rui is not. In one action, when LBJ is off ball and Austin Reaves has the ball, LBJ is staring out Rui trying to make eye contact while pointing to the spot on the floor where Rui needs to be. Who on the Wizards is going to do that? The Lakers are able to get more out of Rui because they put him in places to be successful and accept that he has strengths and weaknesses. Going forward the real question is what will being in such a positive environment do for Rui going forward? Hopefully he continues to work on and improve his game.

And this isn't even surprising. Look at all the players who have been run out of town. Javale McGee (multiple championships), Nick Young (championship), Otto Porter (championship) and Bobby Portis (championship) just to name a few. I expect that next offseason the same thing will happen with Avdija.

DeShawn Stevenson, Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, Gary Payton III, Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace.

Chris Webber deserves mention.

I agree with your prediction of Advija being next.

[nate33]

And this isn't even surprising. Look at all the players who have been run out of town. Javale McGee (multiple championships), Nick Young (championship), Otto Porter (championship) and Bobby Portis (championship) just to name a few. I expect that next offseason the same thing will happen with Avdija.

DeShawn Stevenson, Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, Gary Payton III, Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace.

Chris Webber deserves mention.

I agree with your prediction of Advija being next.

Nope! I'm not going to let this revisionist history stand.

McGee and Young were not good players that we gave up on who then went on to lead teams to championships. They were bad players that we gave up on, who then toiled in obscurity as bench players for years and years. They managed to land on championship teams because NOBODY wanted them after 5+ years of failure, so they were available as cheap free agents. There is no way a rational person would consider this a failure of the Wizards player development. The Wizards got 4 years out of Nene when they traded McGee. Nene was the best center we've had since Ruland. (Also, Nick Young averaged 2.6 points, 0.6 rebounds and 0.2 assists in the playoffs. McGee averaged 2.9 points and 3.1 rebounds. Let's not overstate their contribution.)

Likewise, Otto Porter's championship was after years and years of being a negative contract and a burden to the Chicago Bulls. When his contract mercifully ended, the Warriors signed him as a free agent for cheap. He had one brief year where his glass skeleton held up reasonably well in a bench role, and now he is back to being hurt all the time. Again, not a failure of player development. In hindsight, it was clearly a good move to dump him for salary relief rather than pay him the remaining 3 years on his max contract to be hurt all the time.

Bobby Portis was let go because New York signed him to a $15M contract where he went on to average just 10 points and 5 boards. Again, it was the right move. Portis was a useful rotation player, but he didn't deserve double the MLE. New York let him go after that one bad season and he found a nice home in Milwaukee, but at just $4M a year. Portis wasn't going to play in DC for $4M a year so the idea that we somehow blew it by not retaining him is absurd.

Stevenson, Butler and Haywood were let go because they were over-the-hill vets on a team that desperately needed to rebuild. I think Grunfeld did a lousy job of getting value for them in the Dallas trade, but the decision to let them go was not wrong at all. They weren't "run out of town". They were let go as part of a rebuild, which ALL intelligent teams have to do at some point. It's not like we could have won a championship here if we just retained them. Moving those guys is what landed us the #1 overall draft pick and John Wall.

I'll give you Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace and Chris Webber, but that's ancient history. That was before even Ernie Grunfeld.