Grant Williams - wants 20 million in his next contract - Worth it?

[Harry Garris]

His forgotten talent is the ability to guard Embid and Giannis. Highly under rated defender.
Joe Mazulla has him in the dog house lately but he balls when called upon.

Everyone always calls him an underrated defender but his defensive metrics are bad and Joe Mazulla doesn’t seem to think he’s all that great on defense, otherwise he’d be playing more.

I think that Grant Williams has the appearance of being good on defense because he’s really strong and you can’t back him down easily in the post and has pretty quick feet and can kinda stay in front of perimeter players at least for a few seconds, but my guess as to why he hasn’t had the defensive impact that the other Celtics wings have had is just the lack of athleticism. He has a really hard time contesting jump shots because of the short arms and because he can’t jump very high, and guys tend to just rise up and shoot over him.

It’s a tough one because I agree the eye test suggests that maybe Grant Williams is alright because guys aren’t blowing past him all the time, but the stats and the Celtics coaching staff seem to think that he sucks, so maybe they’re right.

All your guesses here are wrong. Grant backslid defensively from a year ago without question though

I don't think my guess that his lack of athleticism is holding him back from being an awesome defender is entirely wrong. He's undersized for his position with short arms and without much leaping ability. Having the physical tools to play defense is a big part of playing defense.

[Karate Diop]

Mans wants 20 million but tops out as a 20 mpg player...

[Ticket]

Watch on YouTube

He deserves 20 mil for taking this curbstomp and coming back to play

[Tottery]

I like Williams. He is a solid 3 and D guy, but 20 per year? lol...no.

[Rastas]

15m per max player.

[DusterBuster]

Absolutely not.

[cupcakesnake]

I think he's going to get close.
Contracts are trending up as people anticipate a cap spike. There's already players comparable to Grant Williams making almost 20m. Jonathan Isaac, Nic Batum, Marcus Morris.

20m contacts for good winning players who don't put up huge stats are likely to be more normal soon.

This, but lets add more color.

Cap is up over 8% for next year. If we're talking a 4 year deal with 8.5% raises that's him starting at roughly 17.5 next year which is the equivalent of 16.1 this year. so yeah...this doesn't seem like a big ask.

My perception is that Grant Williams value has fallen off to some degree since I wrote that post in February. At that time he was seen as a part-time starter and important rotation piece on a championship roster. Maybe some teams still see him that way but Boston doesn't seem to anymore. That's how it looks at this moment in time. He played 23 minutes last night but is averaging only 15mpg in these playoffs (vs. 27mpg last year). He's getting some opportunity. Another big playoff moment from him could get him back on track.

[cupcakesnake]

Everyone always calls him an underrated defender but his defensive metrics are bad and Joe Mazulla doesn’t seem to think he’s all that great on defense, otherwise he’d be playing more.

I think that Grant Williams has the appearance of being good on defense because he’s really strong and you can’t back him down easily in the post and has pretty quick feet and can kinda stay in front of perimeter players at least for a few seconds, but my guess as to why he hasn’t had the defensive impact that the other Celtics wings have had is just the lack of athleticism. He has a really hard time contesting jump shots because of the short arms and because he can’t jump very high, and guys tend to just rise up and shoot over him.

It’s a tough one because I agree the eye test suggests that maybe Grant Williams is alright because guys aren’t blowing past him all the time, but the stats and the Celtics coaching staff seem to think that he sucks, so maybe they’re right.

All your guesses here are wrong. Grant backslid defensively from a year ago without question though

I don't think my guess that his lack of athleticism is holding him back from being an awesome defender is entirely wrong. He's undersized for his position with short arms and without much leaping ability. Having the physical tools to play defense is a big part of playing defense.

He's not super short-armed. His combine measurements had him at 6'5.75" with a 6'9.75" wingspan. That's not freak long like Draymond or OG or Kawhi, but that's solid length for an NBA wing. It's similar to the Morris twins, Saddiq Bey etc.

It's not huge plus length but I wouldn't call him short-armed. His main defensive strength is being crazy strong and heavy (240lbs. at the time of the draft) while having decent foot speed.

[basketballRob]

I can't see the Magic offering him more than they paid Wendell Carter Jr. 4-yrs $50M. If he's willing to accept like a 4-yr $44m deal, I'd be okay with it. Carter is better and younger.

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[TheChaser]

No

Correct for short and long answers.

[celticfan42487]

All your guesses here are wrong. Grant backslid defensively from a year ago without question though

I don't think my guess that his lack of athleticism is holding him back from being an awesome defender is entirely wrong. He's undersized for his position with short arms and without much leaping ability. Having the physical tools to play defense is a big part of playing defense.

He's not super short-armed. His combine measurements had him at 6'5.75" with a 6'9.75" wingspan. That's not freak long like Draymond or OG or Kawhi, but that's solid length for an NBA wing. It's similar to the Morris twins, Saddiq Bey etc.

It's not huge plus length but I wouldn't call him short-armed. His main defensive strength is being crazy strong and heavy (240lbs. at the time of the draft) while having decent foot speed.

He's def a beefy PF backup big who can hit a corner 3 (and side 3s) and rotate to perimeter players on defense without hurting you.

Because of the beef he can hold Centers out of their ideal starting spots off ball.

Can't really rebound or rim protect but will try to take charges if he's off ball.

Makes him an above average defender and a very good one for the right matchup (earthbound Embiid, Jokic). But a poor one against an athletic Center or one that can shoot because he's not athletic so they can just lob over him or in the end he's not that tall.

In my mind just a solid bench PF who happens to be good against post playing Centers who aren't super athletic. Which currently all the MVP players in the league are except Giannis. But since Giannis often barrels in he's willing to take that punishment too and you can set up a defense behind him with Grant taking the punishment as his man defender.

So he's worth something.

What would be the market value of a top 6th man? I think that's what he should get. Some team out there is going to say this guy can be a key piece to us beating Jokic, Embiid, Giannis for our defense and pay him top 6th man money.

[Fantaxp7]

He really stunk it up the second half of this season after making these remarks. I'm hoping it brings him back down to earth and he stays for a more realistic number.

Props to him for looking good when the team has needed him so far in the playoffs. Hopefully doesn't re-inflate his ego.

[Celts17Pride]

I can't see the Magic offering him more than they paid Wendell Carter Jr. 4-yrs $50M. If he's willing to accept like a 4-yr $44m deal, I'd be okay with it. Carter is better and younger.

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Celtics will match anything reasonable so 4-yr $44m deal means he is staying in Boston.

[basketballRob]

I can't see the Magic offering him more than they paid Wendell Carter Jr. 4-yrs $50M. If he's willing to accept like a 4-yr $44m deal, I'd be okay with it. Carter is better and younger.

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Celtics will match anything reasonable so 4-yr $44m deal means he is staying in Boston.

That's the range he'll likely get. $40-50M for 4 years. Houstan has $60M in cap and could do something crazy.

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[jbk1234]

I don't love the box numbers, especially the rebounding numbers, but those will improve some if the team who signs him envisions him in a starting role.

He's probably worth between $14-16M. Big men shoot 40% from 3, have good lateral quickness, and his center of gravity defensively are valuable. Twenty million per is probably a $4M premium on top of the upper end of his value. If he improves with more minutes, that's probably fine. If not, then it could be hard to move him.

[clyde21]

i appreciate glue guys as much as the next guy but no, GMs need to get these deals under control. just b/c you can doesn't mean you should.

personally wouldn't do anything higher than 15per.

what the NBA desperately needs a is a hard cap and max contract removal, let's the market actually speak for itself at that point.

[soxfan2003]

3 years 40 million with some decent incentives seems like a fair deal for him from Boston or another team. 3/60 is just too much for a role player who doesn't have a truly dominant aspect to his game and does have some noticeable weaknesses.

Marcus Smart signed less than 2 years ago and his contract averages less than 20 million a year. I doubt there is an NBA team that gives that sort of contract to Williams. He is a good player but other good players are available for less money.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

With Ime now established in Houston and them having a plethora of Cap Space, they are a definite candidate to sign Williams
as a Free Agent or perhaps work out a S&T for him involving DeShaun Tate, whom the Celtics were interested in acquiring
at the Deadline...

[docholliday99]

For me, Williams comparable is Tucker, in what they bring on the floor statwise, defense, physical stature, "glueness" and salary - that's about 11-15m per. Not unreasonable at all.

However, (and please correct me as I'm an armchair GM) I'm not even sure Boston can afford 15per for Williams; with the new CBA restrictions and already in the luxury tax, would you pay your 8th best player 15 per? Next season, Boston has Tatum, Brown, White, Smart, Brogdon, Horford, and the other Williams ahead of him on the talent chart and under contract for a 144.3m, Gallo has a 6.8m PO which he'll pickup and then Pritchard, Kornet and Hauser after him for 8.4m, that's a combined total of 159.6. The tax threshold next season is 162m and now the new CBA has a second apron set at 17.5m(?) above the tax apron, putting it at 179.5m. Next season, Boston will be year 2 in the luxury tax with the repeater tax and Brown's extension looming the following year. Even with the new TV deal coming (which has been capped smoothed now), I just don't see Williams staying. Big decisions for the Celtics this offseason, regardless if they win a title or not this year.

[dhsilv2]

I think he's going to get close.
Contracts are trending up as people anticipate a cap spike. There's already players comparable to Grant Williams making almost 20m. Jonathan Isaac, Nic Batum, Marcus Morris.

20m contacts for good winning players who don't put up huge stats are likely to be more normal soon.

This, but lets add more color.

Cap is up over 8% for next year. If we're talking a 4 year deal with 8.5% raises that's him starting at roughly 17.5 next year which is the equivalent of 16.1 this year. so yeah...this doesn't seem like a big ask.

My perception is that Grant Williams value has fallen off to some degree since I wrote that post in February. At that time he was seen as a part-time starter and important rotation piece on a championship roster. Maybe some teams still see him that way but Boston doesn't seem to anymore. That's how it looks at this moment in time. He played 23 minutes last night but is averaging only 15mpg in these playoffs (vs. 27mpg last year). He's getting some opportunity. Another big playoff moment from him could get him back on track.

I'd agree with that. I'm just adding data with the 20 million number seems to be confusing people in terms of what it is. He's more or less asking for 150th best player type money shockingly enough. 16 mil is about 95th year, throw in rookie deals and guys who took a bad deal.