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[JujitsuFlip]

The window becomes progressively smaller if Mitchell and Allen walk for nothing, given the fact the Cavs owe their 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, and 2029 first round picks to the Jazz.

Furthermore, even if they do trade Allen and Mitchell for pieces that actually fit Garland and Mobley better, I doubt they ever get fair value for either guy.

Allen loves Cleveland. I see no reason as to why he would walk after his deal expires. I see him resigning with the team in the first chance he gets.

Mitchell on the other hand I could see walking. But if he does, while I do agree we probably won't get back fair value for him, it should be enough to still at least help the team continue to be a top 10 offense even without him. I'm still of the opinion that two good three and D players at SG and SF is all we really need to be set up for success.

Unless Mobley becomes someone we can trust to dribble the ball and make timely passes, we still need at least one secondary ball handler in the starting lineup and a backup PG. Mitchell covers both of those needs.

Anyway, if Mitchell won't extend, there's a couple of major possibilities worth examining:

1) He's made it known he wants to go to the Knicks, the Knicks want him, and nobody else wants to trade for him as a one year rental. In that case we can start thinking about what pieces we want from the Knicks, but presumably the Knicks would rather not repeat the mistake they made when trading for Melo and if they see a way to open the cap space to sign Mitchell, they won't want to give too much up. Alas, there's a lot of pressure in NYC to make the big deal and not wait which would play to our favor.

2) He hasn't made any demands, and we would likely look for an opportunity to swap him for a star on another team looking to move on, or maybe a young promising player on a team ready to accelerate their plans.

So, I'm not thinking of trading him for loose-parts like Cam Thomas, Royce O'Neale, and Dorian Finney-Smith; I'd be trying to make a bigger play like swapping him for Luka, Giannis, Zion, Jaylen Brown, Mikal Bridges, etc, if/when someone from that tier becomes available for whatever reason. A top-5 lottery pick and some role players could also be interesting in the right draft and would make some sense in terms of what we gave up for Mitchell (condense all those likely late picks in to a sure fire top pick). If we just wanted back a pile of future picks to replace the ones we sent to Utah, there are teams with way too many of them.

Mitchell could never return Giannis, Luka, or Zion. Given he is a 2 way player, doubt he could return Brown either.

[JonFromVA]

The window becomes progressively smaller if Mitchell and Allen walk for nothing, given the fact the Cavs owe their 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, and 2029 first round picks to the Jazz.

Furthermore, even if they do trade Allen and Mitchell for pieces that actually fit Garland and Mobley better, I doubt they ever get fair value for either guy.

There's a whole lot of possible outcomes - that's the fun of being a GM. For instance, there's an alternate reality where we don't trade for Mitchell, we don't trade for Caris and we're just good enough that those picks never amount to anything and/or we have to dump or draft & stash some of them to save a roster spot.

We still have our first round pick in 2024, we still have first round swaps in 2026 and 2028, we have 2nd round picks, and for now we still have Caris, Mitchell, and the rest of the core we've assembled. The plan is to build around them, not to trade them.

Can things go horribly wrong? Sure. Things can always go horribly wrong, I just don't find it enjoyable spending my time dwelling on those things like that when they are 100% out of my control.

There's also the alternate reality where they trade those picks to fill out the roster with pieces that make sense.

Let's not overvalue late picks. It cost us 2 of them to get Timofey Mozgov and we got like all of a season out of him before he broke down and the Lakers for unknown reasons decided to overpay him. If we could have beaten the Knicks offer to Portland (maybe a first and a second?), we could have traded for Josh Hart who certainly would have helped us - but didn't work out an extension with the Knicks and could be on his way elsewhere this Summer. Caris LeVert is a mixed bag we'll likely have no choice but to spend a lot of money on.

[JujitsuFlip]

Allen loves Cleveland. I see no reason as to why he would walk after his deal expires. I see him resigning with the team in the first chance he gets.

Mitchell on the other hand I could see walking. But if he does, while I do agree we probably won't get back fair value for him, it should be enough to still at least help the team continue to be a top 10 offense even without him. I'm still of the opinion that two good three and D players at SG and SF is all we really need to be set up for success.

If Allen doesn't extend first chance he gets, Cavs have to trade him.

I mean, it really depends because the Spurs didn't get much of anything for Kawhi and in my estimation he is far superior to Mitchell. The best thing possible is Mitchell extends next summer, if he doesn't, Cavs are gonna be in a bad spot.

Well yeah of course we trade Allen if it becomes clear that he's not going to stay. I'm just saying that I doubt that happens. As I've said before, Allen has enjoyed being in Cleveland and hasn't really shown any signs of wanting to leave.

Can we really say that the Kawhi situation is comparable? I mean Kawhi was out for an entire year before the trade happened and even then, they still at least got DeRozan in the deal. Considering the age of our talent, I wouldn't have any issues getting a caliber of that player on our team just as long as he stays with a team and has a playstyle that is more team friendly.

Well, it may not be Allen's choice too. Him or Mobley must learn to make and take the 3 ball. Both of them combining for a single 3FGA in a 5 game playoff series is making everyone's life more difficult.

Probably not comparable, given Kawhi was a champion and Finals MVP before that trade. Gotta remember they traded Danny Green with Kawhi, if all the Cavs get back is a worse player than Mitchell, a prospect, and a protected pick, Cavs are in bad shape. Just cross your fingers Mitchell extends next summer, otherwise Cavs are gonna have a rough time until 2030 when they can finally control their own draft assets again.

[JujitsuFlip]

There's a whole lot of possible outcomes - that's the fun of being a GM. For instance, there's an alternate reality where we don't trade for Mitchell, we don't trade for Caris and we're just good enough that those picks never amount to anything and/or we have to dump or draft & stash some of them to save a roster spot.

We still have our first round pick in 2024, we still have first round swaps in 2026 and 2028, we have 2nd round picks, and for now we still have Caris, Mitchell, and the rest of the core we've assembled. The plan is to build around them, not to trade them.

Can things go horribly wrong? Sure. Things can always go horribly wrong, I just don't find it enjoyable spending my time dwelling on those things like that when they are 100% out of my control.

There's also the alternate reality where they trade those picks to fill out the roster with pieces that make sense.

Let's not overvalue late picks. It cost us 2 of them to get Timofey Mozgov and we got like all of a season out of him before he broke down and the Lakers for unknown reasons decided to overpay him. If we could have beaten the Knicks offer to Portland (maybe a first and a second?), we could have traded for Josh Hart who certainly would have helped us - but didn't work out an extension with the Knicks and could be on his way elsewhere this Summer. Caris LeVert is a mixed bag we'll likely have no choice but to spend a lot of money on.

I don't overvalue them, I understand the flexibility they bring, a concept that is lost on others.

Who did those future protected picks we trade belong to? I'll give you a hint, they weren't the Cavs.

Well, why couldn't we beat their offer for Hart, Jon? Because we can't trade any of our picks, the Jazz own them all. We have zero flexibility with draft assets until 2030!

[JonFromVA]

Allen loves Cleveland. I see no reason as to why he would walk after his deal expires. I see him resigning with the team in the first chance he gets.

Mitchell on the other hand I could see walking. But if he does, while I do agree we probably won't get back fair value for him, it should be enough to still at least help the team continue to be a top 10 offense even without him. I'm still of the opinion that two good three and D players at SG and SF is all we really need to be set up for success.

Unless Mobley becomes someone we can trust to dribble the ball and make timely passes, we still need at least one secondary ball handler in the starting lineup and a backup PG. Mitchell covers both of those needs.

Anyway, if Mitchell won't extend, there's a couple of major possibilities worth examining:

1) He's made it known he wants to go to the Knicks, the Knicks want him, and nobody else wants to trade for him as a one year rental. In that case we can start thinking about what pieces we want from the Knicks, but presumably the Knicks would rather not repeat the mistake they made when trading for Melo and if they see a way to open the cap space to sign Mitchell, they won't want to give too much up. Alas, there's a lot of pressure in NYC to make the big deal and not wait which would play to our favor.

2) He hasn't made any demands, and we would likely look for an opportunity to swap him for a star on another team looking to move on, or maybe a young promising player on a team ready to accelerate their plans.

So, I'm not thinking of trading him for loose-parts like Cam Thomas, Royce O'Neale, and Dorian Finney-Smith; I'd be trying to make a bigger play like swapping him for Luka, Giannis, Zion, Jaylen Brown, Mikal Bridges, etc, if/when someone from that tier becomes available for whatever reason. A top-5 lottery pick and some role players could also be interesting in the right draft and would make some sense in terms of what we gave up for Mitchell (condense all those likely late picks in to a sure fire top pick). If we just wanted back a pile of future picks to replace the ones we sent to Utah, there are teams with way too many of them.

Mitchell could never return Giannis, Luka, or Zion. Given he is a 2 way player, doubt he could return Brown either.

He gets it done if those guys need to be moved and there isn't a better offer on the table. He beats out trades headlined by the likes of Lillard, Beal, LaVine, Barrett/Toppin, etc. He likely beats out trades involving Brown or OG because while those players are nice, you can't build an offense around them like you can with Mitchell.

We'll have to wait for the All-NBA teams to be named, but it looks like Mitchell got some MVP votes and may make 2nd team All-NBA which by itself puts him up there with the best in the league.

[JonFromVA]

There's also the alternate reality where they trade those picks to fill out the roster with pieces that make sense.

Let's not overvalue late picks. It cost us 2 of them to get Timofey Mozgov and we got like all of a season out of him before he broke down and the Lakers for unknown reasons decided to overpay him. If we could have beaten the Knicks offer to Portland (maybe a first and a second?), we could have traded for Josh Hart who certainly would have helped us - but didn't work out an extension with the Knicks and could be on his way elsewhere this Summer. Caris LeVert is a mixed bag we'll likely have no choice but to spend a lot of money on.

I don't overvalue them, I understand the flexibility they bring, a concept that is lost on others.

Who did those future protected picks we trade belong to? I'll give you a hint, they weren't the Cavs.

Well, why couldn't we beat their offer for Hart, Jon? Because we can't trade any of our picks, the Jazz own them all. We have zero flexibility with draft assets until 2030!

Again, this is false and I wish you'd stop saying it. We can trade any of our 2nds, and we do have 1st round picks coming that can be traded on the day of the draft they convey.

That doesn't change the fact that all we might have had to show for our first round pick and additional picks we spent to get Hart could have been a 1/3rd of a season rental.

Suffice it to say I'm not interested in trading Mitchell for a couple of late first round picks we can swap for the next Timofey Mozgov ...

[JonFromVA]

Allen loves Cleveland. I see no reason as to why he would walk after his deal expires. I see him resigning with the team in the first chance he gets.

Mitchell on the other hand I could see walking. But if he does, while I do agree we probably won't get back fair value for him, it should be enough to still at least help the team continue to be a top 10 offense even without him. I'm still of the opinion that two good three and D players at SG and SF is all we really need to be set up for success.

If Allen doesn't extend first chance he gets, Cavs have to trade him.

I mean, it really depends because the Spurs didn't get much of anything for Kawhi and in my estimation he is far superior to Mitchell. The best thing possible is Mitchell extends next summer, if he doesn't, Cavs are gonna be in a bad spot.

Well yeah of course we trade Allen if it becomes clear that he's not going to stay. I'm just saying that I doubt that happens. As I've said before, Allen has enjoyed being in Cleveland and hasn't really shown any signs of wanting to leave.

Can we really say that the Kawhi situation is comparable? I mean Kawhi was out for an entire year before the trade happened and even then, they still at least got DeRozan in the deal. Considering the age of our talent, I wouldn't have any issues getting a caliber of that player on our team just as long as he stays with a team and has a playstyle that is more team friendly.

How clear, though?

If Allen thinks someone might pay him the max and wants to find out for himself, I probably let him shop himself around and see for himself if our offer was fair. If he outright tells us, he won't re-sign - that's another matter - but something that rarely happens because it would cost him leverage in negotiations.

It's different with Mitchell because we will offer him a max extension, and thanks to the new CBA as I understand it, it will pay him more than any other team. So, if he won't extend - we know it's not about the money.

We're somewhat fortunate that it's become common practice since LeFiasco for players to re-sign with their current team for the max and then ask for a trade so they can get the money and their team is able to get something in return.

[JujitsuFlip]

Let's not overvalue late picks. It cost us 2 of them to get Timofey Mozgov and we got like all of a season out of him before he broke down and the Lakers for unknown reasons decided to overpay him. If we could have beaten the Knicks offer to Portland (maybe a first and a second?), we could have traded for Josh Hart who certainly would have helped us - but didn't work out an extension with the Knicks and could be on his way elsewhere this Summer. Caris LeVert is a mixed bag we'll likely have no choice but to spend a lot of money on.

I don't overvalue them, I understand the flexibility they bring, a concept that is lost on others.

Who did those future protected picks we trade belong to? I'll give you a hint, they weren't the Cavs.

Well, why couldn't we beat their offer for Hart, Jon? Because we can't trade any of our picks, the Jazz own them all. We have zero flexibility with draft assets until 2030!

Again, this is false and I wish you'd stop saying it. We can trade any of our 2nds, and we do have 1st round picks coming that can be traded on the day of the draft they convey.

That doesn't change the fact that all we might have had to show for our first round pick and additional picks we spent to get Hart could have been a 1/3rd of a season rental.

Suffice it to say I'm not interested in trading Mitchell for a couple of late first round picks we can swap for the next Timofey Mozgov ...

No one values 2nd round picks, Jon, i wish you would realize this. Look at this previous trade deadline where several teams had to trade 5 seconds to get a deal done, they're useless.

Yeah, and as I pointed out to you, the Cavs can't wait until June 2024, June 2026, or June 2028 to upgrade the roster, sorry.

Who cares and 6 first rounders + an All-Star may only get you 2 or 3 years of Mitchell, the first of which ended in an embarrassing first round exit to an inferior team...

[JujitsuFlip]

Unless Mobley becomes someone we can trust to dribble the ball and make timely passes, we still need at least one secondary ball handler in the starting lineup and a backup PG. Mitchell covers both of those needs.

Anyway, if Mitchell won't extend, there's a couple of major possibilities worth examining:

1) He's made it known he wants to go to the Knicks, the Knicks want him, and nobody else wants to trade for him as a one year rental. In that case we can start thinking about what pieces we want from the Knicks, but presumably the Knicks would rather not repeat the mistake they made when trading for Melo and if they see a way to open the cap space to sign Mitchell, they won't want to give too much up. Alas, there's a lot of pressure in NYC to make the big deal and not wait which would play to our favor.

2) He hasn't made any demands, and we would likely look for an opportunity to swap him for a star on another team looking to move on, or maybe a young promising player on a team ready to accelerate their plans.

So, I'm not thinking of trading him for loose-parts like Cam Thomas, Royce O'Neale, and Dorian Finney-Smith; I'd be trying to make a bigger play like swapping him for Luka, Giannis, Zion, Jaylen Brown, Mikal Bridges, etc, if/when someone from that tier becomes available for whatever reason. A top-5 lottery pick and some role players could also be interesting in the right draft and would make some sense in terms of what we gave up for Mitchell (condense all those likely late picks in to a sure fire top pick). If we just wanted back a pile of future picks to replace the ones we sent to Utah, there are teams with way too many of them.

Mitchell could never return Giannis, Luka, or Zion. Given he is a 2 way player, doubt he could return Brown either.

He gets it done if those guys need to be moved and there isn't a better offer on the table. He beats out trades headlined by the likes of Lillard, Beal, LaVine, Barrett/Toppin, etc. He likely beats out trades involving Brown or OG because while those players are nice, you can't build an offense around them like you can with Mitchell.

We'll have to wait for the All-NBA teams to be named, but it looks like Mitchell got some MVP votes and may make 2nd team All-NBA which by itself puts him up there with the best in the league.

Every single one of those teams have 1st round draft capital to add to trades to get a deal done, something the Cavs do not have.

He did receive some MVP votes for his regular season performance, he disappeared in the playoffs.

[TheLand13]

I don't overvalue them, I understand the flexibility they bring, a concept that is lost on others.

Who did those future protected picks we trade belong to? I'll give you a hint, they weren't the Cavs.

Well, why couldn't we beat their offer for Hart, Jon? Because we can't trade any of our picks, the Jazz own them all. We have zero flexibility with draft assets until 2030!

Again, this is false and I wish you'd stop saying it. We can trade any of our 2nds, and we do have 1st round picks coming that can be traded on the day of the draft they convey.

That doesn't change the fact that all we might have had to show for our first round pick and additional picks we spent to get Hart could have been a 1/3rd of a season rental.

Suffice it to say I'm not interested in trading Mitchell for a couple of late first round picks we can swap for the next Timofey Mozgov ...

No one values 2nd round picks, Jon, i wish you would realize this. Look at this previous trade deadline where several teams had to trade 5 seconds to get a deal done, they're useless.

Yeah, and as I pointed out to you, the Cavs can't wait until June 2024, June 2026, or June 2028 to upgrade the roster, sorry.

Who cares and 6 first rounders + an All-Star may only get you 2 or 3 years of Mitchell, the first of which ended in an embarrassing first round exit to an inferior team...

And in what way are the Knicks an inferior team? Are we going entirely off record? I agree that it was a pretty embarrassing way to go out, but I take issue with this idea that the Knicks were inferior.

[jbk1234]

Not to beat a dead horse, but (grabs a stick) it's really hard for me to approve of the Cavs keeping JBB on while watching this Knicks/Heat series.

[JujitsuFlip]

Again, this is false and I wish you'd stop saying it. We can trade any of our 2nds, and we do have 1st round picks coming that can be traded on the day of the draft they convey.

That doesn't change the fact that all we might have had to show for our first round pick and additional picks we spent to get Hart could have been a 1/3rd of a season rental.

Suffice it to say I'm not interested in trading Mitchell for a couple of late first round picks we can swap for the next Timofey Mozgov ...

No one values 2nd round picks, Jon, i wish you would realize this. Look at this previous trade deadline where several teams had to trade 5 seconds to get a deal done, they're useless.

Yeah, and as I pointed out to you, the Cavs can't wait until June 2024, June 2026, or June 2028 to upgrade the roster, sorry.

Who cares and 6 first rounders + an All-Star may only get you 2 or 3 years of Mitchell, the first of which ended in an embarrassing first round exit to an inferior team...

And in what way are the Knicks an inferior team? Are we going entirely off record? I agree that it was a pretty embarrassing way to go out, but I take issue with this idea that the Knicks were inferior.

In almost every single way besides rebounding and even though it isn't measurable, physicality.

This Knicks team is awful. Cavs have 3 All-Stars and a DPOY/ROY finalist on their team.

Look at the Heat, lost Herro and Dipo, Spo is still going 10 deep with 7 undrafted players on the roster. JB got out coached by freaking Thibs who is nitrous for making no adjustments and being a 1 trick pony.

There is zero reason the Cavs shoulda lost that series, especially in 5 games. JB needs to play more guys and trust more guys, 7 man rotation is absurd.

[TheLand13]

And in what way are the Knicks an inferior team? Are we going entirely off record? I agree that it was a pretty embarrassing way to go out, but I take issue with this idea that the Knicks were inferior.

In almost every single way besides rebounding and even though it isn't measurable, physicality.

Lol

Knicks were a top five offense in the league to go along with the rebounding and physicality, were better coached, AND had a much better bench team. Like, it wasn't even close in that department. Hart, Hartenstein, Toppin. These three alone are better than anyone the Cavaliers had coming off the bench in that series, including LeVert. Oh and by the way, I haven't even mentioned Quickly yet, who was a sixth man of the year finalist.

So on that front, you are factually wrong.

Do you know how much better the Cavaliers would be if they had Josh Hart playing SF? Do you even have the slightest clue? Actually you know what, forget that. Do you know how much better Cleveland would be if they had Hartenstein coming off the bench for them? We are talking potential favorites to come out of the East. That's how much better they would be.

This Knicks team is awful.

They've had the best record in the NBA since December... get out of here with this "Knicks are awful" nonsense.

Cavs have 3 All-Stars and a DPOY/ROY finalist on their team.

Who are these three all stars you are referring to? Name them now.

You can't be talking about Darius Garland, right? He wasn't an all star this year. Granted, he played well in the playoffs so I'll give you that. You can't be referring to Jarrett Allen because he also wasn't an all star this year. And he also struggled offensively all season long so don't even try to suggest he would have been one had Mitchell not been on the team.

This team had one all star. One. And it was the guy who underperformed in this series.

Yeah, Mobley was a DPOY finalist. And he did his part defensively. Hell, Cleveland as a whole did their part defensively. But that wasn't enough obviously because, guess what? Outside of those four that we are discussing, Cleveland has no one of note. Sure LeVert played pretty well in that series all things considered. And sure, Dean Wade could be a valuable player IF his three point shot is falling. And yeah, I'll always contend that Okoro really stepped up and took being taken out of the starting line up personally. But what Cleveland has to offer outside of their big four doesn't even come close to what the Knicks had to offer.

Look at the Heat, lost Herro and Dipo, Spo is still going 10 deep with 7 undrafted players on the roster. JB got out coached by freaking Thibs who is nitrous for making no adjustments and being a 1 trick pony.

This line of thinking is incredibly flawed. What difference does it make if seven players are undrafted? They are doing their part and are able to contribute, that's something that matters. They have a clear built in system. And they have a coach who knows what he's doing.

There is zero reason the Cavs shoulda lost that series, especially in 5 games. JB needs to play more guys and trust more guys, 7 man rotation is absurd.

[/quote]

Yeah, this is something that someone who has no idea what they're talking about would say. Me? I didn't think the Cavaliers had any chance of winning whatsoever. I had them losing in six and they still manage to do worse than that.

And I haven't even discussed the most important aspect in all of this... which is that the Knicks were a horrible matchup for Cleveland. That's literally the biggest reason the Knicks dominated that series, and it's one of the reasons why they're down 2-1 to Miami right now. Those matchup advantages that they had over Cleveland do not exist in that series. The fact that you don't even understand how this works demonstrates your knowledge of the game.

[JujitsuFlip]

Lol sure thing man, whatever you believe.

Anyway, is JB playing any of the below in the playoffs?

Love - this is a for sure no
Zeller - JB probably views him like RoLo
Highsmith - maybe the equivalent of Stevens
Robinson - an overpaid Merrill?
Martin - idk, similar to Wade
Lowry - 5 mpg like Rubio?
Gabe - Neto
Strus - okay, he might play him but who knows, Cavs should sign him.

These guys are role players, they have roles, that is how Spo uses them, for the role they fill...

[JonFromVA]

I don't overvalue them, I understand the flexibility they bring, a concept that is lost on others.

Who did those future protected picks we trade belong to? I'll give you a hint, they weren't the Cavs.

Well, why couldn't we beat their offer for Hart, Jon? Because we can't trade any of our picks, the Jazz own them all. We have zero flexibility with draft assets until 2030!

Again, this is false and I wish you'd stop saying it. We can trade any of our 2nds, and we do have 1st round picks coming that can be traded on the day of the draft they convey.

That doesn't change the fact that all we might have had to show for our first round pick and additional picks we spent to get Hart could have been a 1/3rd of a season rental.

Suffice it to say I'm not interested in trading Mitchell for a couple of late first round picks we can swap for the next Timofey Mozgov ...

No one values 2nd round picks, Jon, i wish you would realize this. Look at this previous trade deadline where several teams had to trade 5 seconds to get a deal done, they're useless.

Yeah, and as I pointed out to you, the Cavs can't wait until June 2024, June 2026, or June 2028 to upgrade the roster, sorry.

Who cares and 6 first rounders + an All-Star may only get you 2 or 3 years of Mitchell, the first of which ended in an embarrassing first round exit to an inferior team...

Just stop repeating completely wrong statements like they're fact and I'll stop correcting you and we'll both save time and typing ... it's honestly as easy as that.

[JonFromVA]

Mitchell could never return Giannis, Luka, or Zion. Given he is a 2 way player, doubt he could return Brown either.

He gets it done if those guys need to be moved and there isn't a better offer on the table. He beats out trades headlined by the likes of Lillard, Beal, LaVine, Barrett/Toppin, etc. He likely beats out trades involving Brown or OG because while those players are nice, you can't build an offense around them like you can with Mitchell.

We'll have to wait for the All-NBA teams to be named, but it looks like Mitchell got some MVP votes and may make 2nd team All-NBA which by itself puts him up there with the best in the league.

Every single one of those teams have 1st round draft capital to add to trades to get a deal done, something the Cavs do not have.

He did receive some MVP votes for his regular season performance, he disappeared in the playoffs.

Personally, I'd rather have the younger better player than an older worse player and a likely late first round pick.

[JonFromVA]

Not to beat a dead horse, but (grabs a stick) it's really hard for me to approve of the Cavs keeping JBB on while watching this Knicks/Heat series.

We all see problems with JBB, but it's about the future, and I've seen stranger things than a coach and his team growing from a disappointing playoff series. And if change is what you want, it's better this happened rather than the close fought series, a win, and a second round exit everyone would have declared a win.

Change can come in many forms ...

[JujitsuFlip]

Again, this is false and I wish you'd stop saying it. We can trade any of our 2nds, and we do have 1st round picks coming that can be traded on the day of the draft they convey.

That doesn't change the fact that all we might have had to show for our first round pick and additional picks we spent to get Hart could have been a 1/3rd of a season rental.

Suffice it to say I'm not interested in trading Mitchell for a couple of late first round picks we can swap for the next Timofey Mozgov ...

No one values 2nd round picks, Jon, i wish you would realize this. Look at this previous trade deadline where several teams had to trade 5 seconds to get a deal done, they're useless.

Yeah, and as I pointed out to you, the Cavs can't wait until June 2024, June 2026, or June 2028 to upgrade the roster, sorry.

Who cares and 6 first rounders + an All-Star may only get you 2 or 3 years of Mitchell, the first of which ended in an embarrassing first round exit to an inferior team...

Just stop repeating completely wrong statements like they're fact and I'll stop correcting you and we'll both save time and typing ... it's honestly as easy as that.

Yeah, idc about the asterisks, Jon, because they're pointless, Lmfao

[afarmenian]

Watching more and more playoff games. It's become apparent the cavs cannot understand any circumstance continue with Allen and Mobley or this team will not compete in the playoffs. This is just the reality of the situation there is not one team left that is going with two traditional big man that can't shoot. Most teams won't even roll with one big man that can't space the floor look at the Warriors sitting Looney to give Curry and Klay more spacing.

We really messed up giving up Lauri. I am not sure if Allen would have got it done but if it could have woof......

[jbk1234]

Watching more and more playoff games. It's become apparent the cavs cannot understand any circumstance continue with Allen and Mobley or this team will not compete in the playoffs. This is just the reality of the situation there is not one team left that is going with two traditional big man that can't shoot. Most teams won't even roll with one big man that can't space the floor look at the Warriors sitting Looney to give Curry and Klay more spacing.

We really messed up giving up Lauri. I am not sure if Allen would have got it done but if it could have woof......

It is interesting that our best game was the one where Okoro got yanked due to early foul trouble and never came back in. I think you can get away with two non-shooters or two poor defenders, but any time you add a third in either category, it's kind of irreparable.