2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Inside perspective on the notion of Ayton being a bad teammate or locker room cancer/ malcontent!
As I've said for awhile now, Ayton's problem began in 2021 with the front office jerking him around for multiple seasons rather than just paying him initially OR letting him leave in free agency. It had/ has nothing to do with his fellow teammates. Maybe too a bit of built up issues connected to Monty too with regards to his role and utilization. But that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone seeing as how Williams still can't figure out proper rotations or player matchup utilization even after 3-4 yrs here. Ayton will recover and recoup his value and impact in a new environment and with a fresh start in a different role. It's just time to part ways for everyone involved.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If always some ifs man.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[kennydorglas]

Read on Twitter

Inside perspective on the notion of Ayton being a bad teammate or locker room cancer/ malcontent!
As I've said for awhile now, Ayton's problem began in 2021 with the front office jerking him around for multiple seasons rather than just paying him initially OR letting him leave in free agency. It had/ has nothing to do with his fellow teammates. Maybe too a bit of built up issues connected to Monty too with regards to his role and utilization. But that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone seeing as how Williams still can't figure out proper rotations or player matchup utilization even after 3-4 yrs here. Ayton will recover and recoup his value and impact in a new environment and with a fresh start in a different role. It's just time to part ways for everyone involved.

I've never seen Mikal pissed in game before.
The only one who got him there was DA.

This just a demonstrate how good of teammate Jock actually is.
Instead of being a drama queen on the bench when every **** eye is on you, he just defend his teammate in public.

[SunsRback4Good]

AUSSIE AUSSIE ASUSSIE

[bigfoot]

New York has a lot of role players that I can see getting for Deandre Ayton.

Toppin, Quickly, Grimes, Robinson. I would love these type of players. I also wonder if they’d give up RJ Barrett. I’m not saying all these guys are available but do think a mix of those guys may work for both teams.


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Ayton would wither away and die from press and fans in NYC

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Inside perspective on the notion of Ayton being a bad teammate or locker room cancer/ malcontent!
As I've said for awhile now, Ayton's problem began in 2021 with the front office jerking him around for multiple seasons rather than just paying him initially OR letting him leave in free agency. It had/ has nothing to do with his fellow teammates. Maybe too a bit of built up issues connected to Monty too with regards to his role and utilization. But that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone seeing as how Williams still can't figure out proper rotations or player matchup utilization even after 3-4 yrs here. Ayton will recover and recoup his value and impact in a new environment and with a fresh start in a different role. It's just time to part ways for everyone involved.

I've never seen Mikal pissed in game before.
The only one who got him there was DA.

This just a demonstrate how good of teammate Jock actually is.
Instead of being a drama queen on the bench when every **** eye is on you, he just defend his teammate in public.

Ayton is the only player that Monty Williams has ever had a public altercation with as well. I’m not a Monty fan at all but one thing I give him credit for is being a players coach that all players love and respect.

He’s coached for like 6+ nba teams I think and been coaching for many years and Ayton is the only that he’s had issues with. Even yesterday he called out Ayton’s effort in the interview before the 4th qtr, something coaches usually never do and something Monty doesn’t do for anyone else.

Landale’s trying to be a good teammate and I respect that. He knows he needs to be seen as a good locker room veteran type of guy to earn a contract in the NBA for next season which he does deserve imo.

But Ayton’s actions show more than what Landale can say about him.

There’s a very, very, very old saying that says “If a person shows you who they are, believe them”. This applies for basketball and also for real life.

[KdoubleDees23]

Sabonis or Turner would've been amazing

I cannot recall last summer but I am not sure the Pacers were offering Turner for Ayton in an S&T. I think anybody would do that deal today

Just have to hope the Suns find a sucker: Detroit, Charlotte, maybe Dallas - to take him. Detroit just traded for Wiseman but would they try Bogdo and Wiseman for Ayton?

With Detroit, The reason that I mentioned an Ayton trade with them was because they already have plenty of redundant big man options and matching expiring contracts to activate swap for Ayton, including some that would address our positional depth concerns. Now there wouldn't be any draft assets available this summer for inclusion really but they still have reasonable depth pieces and are looking to take the next jump to actually making the playoffs for their young core to garner the resulting experience.

For me personally, and at this point too, whilst not my preferred trade priority, obviously I see this as fairly palatable for us!

Phoenix/ Detroit-
Ayton/ Shamet for Burks/ Wiseman/ Hayes/ 23' 31st (Detroit 2nd ). This gives the Pistons an immediate experience upgrade from Wiseman, and would pair two of the top 3 picks from the 2018 draft together for their core! Wiseman wasn't a big time cost acquisition for them anyways, and they'll be sitting on a huge amount of cap space this summer. Getting a number 1 pick (in Ayton) for exchanging near equal salary and only giving up another yet unproven lotto big a fringe rotation player, and a multiyear unproven fringe bust project guard and a 2nd is equitable value for what Ayton and Shamet are capable of offering in a different environment.

For us, it's a "no brainer" !! We'd have a young comparable development big with potential upside on a cheaper scale deal. Burks and Hayes would equate to around 20 million in expirings to help restore our cap viability/ flexibility (buyout Paul after). And focus on revamping our roster. Or we could simply choose to trade Ayton for those three expirings and a 2nd ( 31st pick) to drastically reduce our tax restrictions. Maybe flip those expirings to Toronto for Van Vleet and Trent Jr around the deadline? Or to another team for other pieces/ assets.

Overall, my preference would be:
1- Dallas.
Ayton/ Shamet for Hardaway Jr/ Bertans/ Kleber/ McGee/ and the 10th pick in the 23' draft.
OR
Ayton for Hardaway Jr/ Kleber/ McGee/ 10th pick 23' draft.

2- Houston. (For cap reduction, young cost controlled assets, and draft picks)??
Ayton for Eason/ Martin Jr/ Washington/ 20th pick ( 2023 draft). IF Houston wants to get Ayton to pair with Harden and still keep more cap flexibility to add key pieces around Harden and Ayton, then I'd be absolutely willing to take back Porter Jr's 18 million in a trade deal. Maybe alternatively this:

Ayton/ Shamet for KPJr/ Eason/ Martin Jr/ 20th pick in the 2023 draft.

3- Charlotte ( ** IF they miss out on Wemby)
Ayton/ Shamet for Rozier/ Bouknight/ Richards or Williams ( their preference)/ 27th pick/ 39th pick in 2023 draft.
They can keep their top 3 pick to take Scoot or another guard, and us taking back comparable salary allows them to still bring back Bridges and add some other key free agent pieces!! Then Detroit as a 4th alternative option.

You probably have the worst trades on this site. lol. Come on man. Think before you post

[Ghost of Kleine]

I cannot recall last summer but I am not sure the Pacers were offering Turner for Ayton in an S&T. I think anybody would do that deal today

Just have to hope the Suns find a sucker: Detroit, Charlotte, maybe Dallas - to take him. Detroit just traded for Wiseman but would they try Bogdo and Wiseman for Ayton?

With Detroit, The reason that I mentioned an Ayton trade with them was because they already have plenty of redundant big man options and matching expiring contracts to activate swap for Ayton, including some that would address our positional depth concerns. Now there wouldn't be any draft assets available this summer for inclusion really but they still have reasonable depth pieces and are looking to take the next jump to actually making the playoffs for their young core to garner the resulting experience.

For me personally, and at this point too, whilst not my preferred trade priority, obviously I see this as fairly palatable for us!

Phoenix/ Detroit-
Ayton/ Shamet for Burks/ Wiseman/ Hayes/ 23' 31st (Detroit 2nd ). This gives the Pistons an immediate experience upgrade from Wiseman, and would pair two of the top 3 picks from the 2018 draft together for their core! Wiseman wasn't a big time cost acquisition for them anyways, and they'll be sitting on a huge amount of cap space this summer. Getting a number 1 pick (in Ayton) for exchanging near equal salary and only giving up another yet unproven lotto big a fringe rotation player, and a multiyear unproven fringe bust project guard and a 2nd is equitable value for what Ayton and Shamet are capable of offering in a different environment.

For us, it's a "no brainer" !! We'd have a young comparable development big with potential upside on a cheaper scale deal. Burks and Hayes would equate to around 20 million in expirings to help restore our cap viability/ flexibility (buyout Paul after). And focus on revamping our roster. Or we could simply choose to trade Ayton for those three expirings and a 2nd ( 31st pick) to drastically reduce our tax restrictions. Maybe flip those expirings to Toronto for Van Vleet and Trent Jr around the deadline? Or to another team for other pieces/ assets.

Overall, my preference would be:
1- Dallas.
Ayton/ Shamet for Hardaway Jr/ Bertans/ Kleber/ McGee/ and the 10th pick in the 23' draft.
OR
Ayton for Hardaway Jr/ Kleber/ McGee/ 10th pick 23' draft.

2- Houston. (For cap reduction, young cost controlled assets, and draft picks)??
Ayton for Eason/ Martin Jr/ Washington/ 20th pick ( 2023 draft). IF Houston wants to get Ayton to pair with Harden and still keep more cap flexibility to add key pieces around Harden and Ayton, then I'd be absolutely willing to take back Porter Jr's 18 million in a trade deal. Maybe alternatively this:

Ayton/ Shamet for KPJr/ Eason/ Martin Jr/ 20th pick in the 2023 draft.

3- Charlotte ( ** IF they miss out on Wemby)
Ayton/ Shamet for Rozier/ Bouknight/ Richards or Williams ( their preference)/ 27th pick/ 39th pick in 2023 draft.
They can keep their top 3 pick to take Scoot or another guard, and us taking back comparable salary allows them to still bring back Bridges and add some other key free agent pieces!! Then Detroit as a 4th alternative option.

You probably have the worst trades on this site. lol. Come on man. Think before you post

Thanks! looking at many of your post contributions on here, perhaps you might consider extending everyone on here the same courtesy?? By the way, feel free to offer your own impressive trade postulations from your expert opinion. Just try to think before you post too man!

[bwgood77]

Jock: I'm sick and tired of people slandering and **** on DA.

Fan Response: Slander and **** on DA.

lol

[KdoubleDees23]

With Detroit, The reason that I mentioned an Ayton trade with them was because they already have plenty of redundant big man options and matching expiring contracts to activate swap for Ayton, including some that would address our positional depth concerns. Now there wouldn't be any draft assets available this summer for inclusion really but they still have reasonable depth pieces and are looking to take the next jump to actually making the playoffs for their young core to garner the resulting experience.

For me personally, and at this point too, whilst not my preferred trade priority, obviously I see this as fairly palatable for us!

Phoenix/ Detroit-
Ayton/ Shamet for Burks/ Wiseman/ Hayes/ 23' 31st (Detroit 2nd ). This gives the Pistons an immediate experience upgrade from Wiseman, and would pair two of the top 3 picks from the 2018 draft together for their core! Wiseman wasn't a big time cost acquisition for them anyways, and they'll be sitting on a huge amount of cap space this summer. Getting a number 1 pick (in Ayton) for exchanging near equal salary and only giving up another yet unproven lotto big a fringe rotation player, and a multiyear unproven fringe bust project guard and a 2nd is equitable value for what Ayton and Shamet are capable of offering in a different environment.

For us, it's a "no brainer" !! We'd have a young comparable development big with potential upside on a cheaper scale deal. Burks and Hayes would equate to around 20 million in expirings to help restore our cap viability/ flexibility (buyout Paul after). And focus on revamping our roster. Or we could simply choose to trade Ayton for those three expirings and a 2nd ( 31st pick) to drastically reduce our tax restrictions. Maybe flip those expirings to Toronto for Van Vleet and Trent Jr around the deadline? Or to another team for other pieces/ assets.

Overall, my preference would be:
1- Dallas.
Ayton/ Shamet for Hardaway Jr/ Bertans/ Kleber/ McGee/ and the 10th pick in the 23' draft.
OR
Ayton for Hardaway Jr/ Kleber/ McGee/ 10th pick 23' draft.

2- Houston. (For cap reduction, young cost controlled assets, and draft picks)??
Ayton for Eason/ Martin Jr/ Washington/ 20th pick ( 2023 draft). IF Houston wants to get Ayton to pair with Harden and still keep more cap flexibility to add key pieces around Harden and Ayton, then I'd be absolutely willing to take back Porter Jr's 18 million in a trade deal. Maybe alternatively this:

Ayton/ Shamet for KPJr/ Eason/ Martin Jr/ 20th pick in the 2023 draft.

3- Charlotte ( ** IF they miss out on Wemby)
Ayton/ Shamet for Rozier/ Bouknight/ Richards or Williams ( their preference)/ 27th pick/ 39th pick in 2023 draft.
They can keep their top 3 pick to take Scoot or another guard, and us taking back comparable salary allows them to still bring back Bridges and add some other key free agent pieces!! Then Detroit as a 4th alternative option.

You probably have the worst trades on this site. lol. Come on man. Think before you post

Thanks! looking at many of your post contributions on here, perhaps you might consider extending everyone on here the same courtesy?? By the way, feel free to offer your own impressive trade postulations from your expert opinion. Just try to think before you post too man!

Not a troll , just factual.

Every trade I’d yours makes us worse .

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Inside perspective on the notion of Ayton being a bad teammate or locker room cancer/ malcontent!
As I've said for awhile now, Ayton's problem began in 2021 with the front office jerking him around for multiple seasons rather than just paying him initially OR letting him leave in free agency. It had/ has nothing to do with his fellow teammates. Maybe too a bit of built up issues connected to Monty too with regards to his role and utilization. But that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone seeing as how Williams still can't figure out proper rotations or player matchup utilization even after 3-4 yrs here. Ayton will recover and recoup his value and impact in a new environment and with a fresh start in a different role. It's just time to part ways for everyone involved.

I've never seen Mikal pissed in game before.
The only one who got him there was DA.

This just a demonstrate how good of teammate Jock actually is.
Instead of being a drama queen on the bench when every **** eye is on you, he just defend his teammate in public.

Ayton is the only player that Monty Williams has ever had a public altercation with as well. I’m not a Monty fan at all but one thing I give him credit for is being a players coach that all players love and respect.

He’s coached for like 6+ nba teams I think and been coaching for many years and Ayton is the only that he’s had issues with. Even yesterday he called out Ayton’s effort in the interview before the 4th qtr, something coaches usually never do and something Monty doesn’t do for anyone else.

Landale’s trying to be a good teammate and I respect that. He knows he needs to be seen as a good locker room veteran type of guy to earn a contract in the NBA for next season which he does deserve imo.

But Ayton’s actions show more than what Landale can say about him.

There’s a very, very, very old saying that says “If a person shows you who they are, believe them”. This applies for basketball and also for real life.

And yet you have the players themselves speaking up for Ayton! Which players have you heard defending Monty? And as for the SINGULAR ALTERCATION between Williams and Ayton last summer during the Mavs series, Everyone was frustrated and passionate over the monumental collapse in that series. Look here at this video reference:

Watch on YouTube

What is Monty himself saying again in this video man! That there's an issue between him and Ayton or that it's frustration for the "whole group! It's simply not at all uncommon for emotions to run high in the playoffs and in the high pressure situations.
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/deandre-ayton-and-monty-williams-reveal-the-real-reason-behind-intense-bench-altercation

Williams clarified the incident after the game and revealed that it was an issue he had with the whole team and the situation came out of frustration.

“It was the whole team in those moments. It wasn’t just Deandre, it was the whole group out there not executing properly. It was a bit of frustration, but that happens. That was not an isolated one person or one player thing.” (h/t Clutch Points)

So two different sources of information BOTH indicating FROM MONTY WILLIAMS HIMSELF that it was just a "heat of the moment" heightened emotional situation over them historically getting there butts kicked on national TV. People seem to like to make that situation about Ayton alone, but everyone on the team didn't really do jack**** to save the game. Everyone struggled. And Williams himself got outcoached repeatedly. Again it's no surprise at all that emotions would be running high in that situation! But I haven't heard or come across a single instance of ANYONE AT ANYTIME claiming Ayton is a locker room cancer or a malcontent or diva! To the contrary, considering everything he's been put through by the front office, media, etc. If anything, he's been the opposite of a malcontent. And has been nothing short of a consummate professional.

But please, anyone! Feel free to share any legitimate evidence or statements (aside from personal opinions) to the contrary.

[Ghost of Kleine]

You probably have the worst trades on this site. lol. Come on man. Think before you post

Thanks! looking at many of your post contributions on here, perhaps you might consider extending everyone on here the same courtesy?? By the way, feel free to offer your own impressive trade postulations from your expert opinion. Just try to think before you post too man!

Not a troll , just factual.

Every trade I’d yours makes us worse .

Thanks for your very objective opinions.
Again, please feel free to present your own better suggestions based upon your vast and superior expertise? Maybe you can help me learn to be better at this so you don't find my trade postulations so unpalatable to your high standards. I'll eagerly wait for your better and more logical proposals!

[Ghost of Kleine]

If always some ifs man.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

And IF our whole team wasn't really mentally soft we would've already won a championship by now. Or if our beloved coach could keep from being repeatedly outcoached, then maybe we wouldn't have gotten historically embarrassed by the Mavs last summer. And IF Jones had actually picked up legitimate quality free agents in free agency or actually performed a legitimate trade to add key depth at the deadline in the past two seasons, then maybe our bench wouldn't struggle so frequently. The point is that If's are just part of the game as the players, coaches, personnel, etc are all still human after all and not absent of emotional responses or other internal and external factors affecting them. Ayton is soft and far too passive and needs to move on not just himself but for our competitive advancement. Entertainment or not, the NBA is a business and the players are employees at a job. Reality is that in life, people just get tired sometimes of their work environment and mentally, emotionally or even behaviorally check out and wanna go elsewhere! Which Ayton did try to do. But we kept him here by choosing to match his offer! That's on us, not him. All i'm saying is it's important for everyone to remember that these athletes (though incredible) are still everyday humans with lives and emotions outside of basketball. And It'd be hard for anyone to be fully invested in a job wherein your not wanted or valued and yet the bosses won't let you leave the situation either. I understand Ayton's glaring weaknesses with his poor motor and soft play. But that doesn't make him a bad person nor a malcontent or locker room cancer or a drama queen. How many of us here could HONESTLY SAY that we could handle the same situation and pressure and vitriol better and more professionally in our 20's????

I'm not saying at all it isn't time to move on! And I've already stated that Ayton is equally to blame in this scenario for not having the same passion/ fire or intestinal fortitude to develop quicker! But I think it's pretty absurd and disingenuous for some on here to try and heap the blame for all of our troubles on Ayton! This team has many significant issues that must be redressed for us to compete at a higher level. And Ayton is just one of those issues, not the only one!

[SunsRback4Good]

If always some ifs man.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

And IF our whole team wasn't really mentally soft we would've already won a championship by now. Or if our beloved coach could keep from being repeatedly outcoached, then maybe we wouldn't have gotten historically embarrassed by the Mavs last summer. And IF Jones had actually picked up legitimate quality free agents in free agency or actually performed a legitimate trade to add key depth at the deadline in the past two seasons, then maybe our bench wouldn't struggle so frequently. The point is that If's are just part of the game as the players, coaches, personnel, etc are all still human after all and not absent of emotional responses or other internal and external factors affecting them. Ayton is soft and far too passive and needs to move on not just himself but for our competitive advancement. Entertainment or not, the NBA is a business and the players are employees at a job. Reality is that in life, people just get tired sometimes of their work environment and mentally, emotionally or even behaviorally check out and wanna go elsewhere! Which Ayton did try to do. But we kept him here by choosing to match his offer! That's on us, not him. All i'm saying is it's important for everyone to remember that these athletes (though incredible) are still everyday humans with lives and emotions outside of basketball. And It'd be hard for anyone to be fully invested in a job wherein your not wanted or valued and yet the bosses won't let you leave the situation either. I understand Ayton's glaring weaknesses with his poor motor and soft play. But that doesn't make him a bad person nor a malcontent or locker room cancer or a drama queen. How many of us here could HONESTLY SAY that we could handle the same situation and pressure and vitriol better and more professionally in our 20's????

I'm not saying at all it isn't time to move on! And I've already stated that Ayton is equally to blame in this scenario for not having the same passion/ fire or intestinal fortitude to develop quicker! But I think it's pretty absurd and disingenuous for some on here to try and heap the blame for all of our troubles on Ayton! This team has many significant issues that must be redressed for us to compete at a higher level. And Ayton is just one of those issues, not the only one!

Has anyone ever taught you how to use proper paragraphs? I don’t have time to read an entire novel. Please do better next time GOK as I’m getting tired of your posts lately and your unrealistic trade ideas.

Spoiler:

Green font trying to take a page out of Doubledees23 book. (How did I do). You know I love you GOK. Nothing but love here.

[bwgood77]

If always some ifs man.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

And IF our whole team wasn't really mentally soft we would've already won a championship by now. Or if our beloved coach could keep from being repeatedly outcoached, then maybe we wouldn't have gotten historically embarrassed by the Mavs last summer. And IF Jones had actually picked up legitimate quality free agents in free agency or actually performed a legitimate trade to add key depth at the deadline in the past two seasons, then maybe our bench wouldn't struggle so frequently. The point is that If's are just part of the game as the players, coaches, personnel, etc are all still human after all and not absent of emotional responses or other internal and external factors affecting them. Ayton is soft and far too passive and needs to move on not just himself but for our competitive advancement. Entertainment or not, the NBA is a business and the players are employees at a job. Reality is that in life, people just get tired sometimes of their work environment and mentally, emotionally or even behaviorally check out and wanna go elsewhere! Which Ayton did try to do. But we kept him here by choosing to match his offer! That's on us, not him. All i'm saying is it's important for everyone to remember that these athletes (though incredible) are still everyday humans with lives and emotions outside of basketball. And It'd be hard for anyone to be fully invested in a job wherein your not wanted or valued and yet the bosses won't let you leave the situation either. I understand Ayton's glaring weaknesses with his poor motor and soft play. But that doesn't make him a bad person nor a malcontent or locker room cancer or a drama queen. How many of us here could HONESTLY SAY that we could handle the same situation and pressure and vitriol better and more professionally in our 20's????

I'm not saying at all it isn't time to move on! And I've already stated that Ayton is equally to blame in this scenario for not having the same passion/ fire or intestinal fortitude to develop quicker! But I think it's pretty absurd and disingenuous for some on here to try and heap the blame for all of our troubles on Ayton! This team has many significant issues that must be redressed for us to compete at a higher level. And Ayton is just one of those issues, not the only one!

Ayton has ALWAYS had motor issues all the way since HS. People expecting that to change every year...I don't know what to say anymore. It's in his DNA. It's also partly from overthinking things and freezing or lacking confidence at times which I thought might improve but that has been consistently on and off over the years too. There were times he played more instinctually when we had great chemistry with that surprise team in 21 and in 22. But he still will overthink it and become robotic at times and it kills it and his confidence and it sometimes kind of snowballs.

I didn't want to draft him and complained a ton about him as a rookie too, but finally realized I was just feeding negativity and me complaining wouldn't change anything. I'd like to see him traded for a good package but don't really expect a good package if he is traded. I'm not sure I expect our team to be better next year regardless.

But yeah, people saying "IF" he played like that every night or expect his motor to be consistent and change, that won't happen. I accepted that long ago since he was going to be on the team and hoped for the best. It would be nice if he had a nonstop consistent high motor but it's not who he is. I understand it's frustrating.

To me, it's more disappointing he regressed on offense and defense, because I don't expect his motor issues to change, but I didn't expect regression. I was really encouraged in years 2 and 3 with his defensive improvements and with his offensive improvements in years 3 and 4 so it was nice seeing him come into each season with improvements. But this season we haven't seen that. It has been a rocky season overall for everyone though.

Hopefully he plays better and gets renewed confidence. I do think it's good to get him 2-3 early buckets. I do think it helps him quite a bit to get going..same goes for a lot of players.

Just hope for the best and expect...well, not sure what to expect lol, outside of fans complaining about Monty, Ayton and Shamet.

[bigfoot]

Read on Twitter

Inside perspective on the notion of Ayton being a bad teammate or locker room cancer/ malcontent!
As I've said for awhile now, Ayton's problem began in 2021 with the front office jerking him around for multiple seasons rather than just paying him initially OR letting him leave in free agency. It had/ has nothing to do with his fellow teammates. Maybe too a bit of built up issues connected to Monty too with regards to his role and utilization. But that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone seeing as how Williams still can't figure out proper rotations or player matchup utilization even after 3-4 yrs here. Ayton will recover and recoup his value and impact in a new environment and with a fresh start in a different role. It's just time to part ways for everyone involved.

I can’t even fathom giving Ayton a five year max contract with 8% raises.

And if we are gonna go into what ifs then what DA just applied himself this season instead of such a huge regression both offensively and defensively. Maybe the Suns would have stood pat and Bridges, CamJo, and all this picks you will sorely miss would still be part of the Suns.

Ayton won’t recoup anything. His head is filled with rocks. He has to be the lowest bbiq and lowest motor player in the NBA. How do you explain a 45 inch vertical never being used in a game? I praying Jock gets most DAs minutes over the course of the playoffs.

[bigfoot]

Read on Twitter

That bottom left side is sickening

[Ghost of Kleine]

If always some ifs man.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

And IF our whole team wasn't really mentally soft we would've already won a championship by now. Or if our beloved coach could keep from being repeatedly outcoached, then maybe we wouldn't have gotten historically embarrassed by the Mavs last summer. And IF Jones had actually picked up legitimate quality free agents in free agency or actually performed a legitimate trade to add key depth at the deadline in the past two seasons, then maybe our bench wouldn't struggle so frequently. The point is that If's are just part of the game as the players, coaches, personnel, etc are all still human after all and not absent of emotional responses or other internal and external factors affecting them. Ayton is soft and far too passive and needs to move on not just himself but for our competitive advancement. Entertainment or not, the NBA is a business and the players are employees at a job. Reality is that in life, people just get tired sometimes of their work environment and mentally, emotionally or even behaviorally check out and wanna go elsewhere! Which Ayton did try to do. But we kept him here by choosing to match his offer! That's on us, not him. All i'm saying is it's important for everyone to remember that these athletes (though incredible) are still everyday humans with lives and emotions outside of basketball. And It'd be hard for anyone to be fully invested in a job wherein your not wanted or valued and yet the bosses won't let you leave the situation either. I understand Ayton's glaring weaknesses with his poor motor and soft play. But that doesn't make him a bad person nor a malcontent or locker room cancer or a drama queen. How many of us here could HONESTLY SAY that we could handle the same situation and pressure and vitriol better and more professionally in our 20's????

I'm not saying at all it isn't time to move on! And I've already stated that Ayton is equally to blame in this scenario for not having the same passion/ fire or intestinal fortitude to develop quicker! But I think it's pretty absurd and disingenuous for some on here to try and heap the blame for all of our troubles on Ayton! This team has many significant issues that must be redressed for us to compete at a higher level. And Ayton is just one of those issues, not the only one!

Has anyone ever taught you how to use proper paragraphs? I don’t have time to read an entire novel. Please do better next time GOK as I’m getting tired of your posts lately and your unrealistic trade ideas.

Spoiler:

Green font trying to take a page out of Doubledees23 book. (How did I do). You know I love you GOK. Nothing but love here.

It's cool brother! Love ya back! You're awesome and the game threads would be lost without you, so I'm very glad your here and for your contributions. We all have our roles to play on here, apparently mine is as a satirically abrasive antagonist...lol. But honestly, I really like everyone on here! Even those I may passionately disagree with occasionally. Doubledees 23 is just another poster looking to try and make a reputation for himself by criticizing others ideas without being able to generate or offer any of his own! More commonly known as trolling. I don't even dislike him though. I rather find his predictable responses somewhat entertaining despite their lack of substance or merit beyond his attempts at self aggrandization. Again, we all play our roles here.

[SunsRback4Good]

And IF our whole team wasn't really mentally soft we would've already won a championship by now. Or if our beloved coach could keep from being repeatedly outcoached, then maybe we wouldn't have gotten historically embarrassed by the Mavs last summer. And IF Jones had actually picked up legitimate quality free agents in free agency or actually performed a legitimate trade to add key depth at the deadline in the past two seasons, then maybe our bench wouldn't struggle so frequently. The point is that If's are just part of the game as the players, coaches, personnel, etc are all still human after all and not absent of emotional responses or other internal and external factors affecting them. Ayton is soft and far too passive and needs to move on not just himself but for our competitive advancement. Entertainment or not, the NBA is a business and the players are employees at a job. Reality is that in life, people just get tired sometimes of their work environment and mentally, emotionally or even behaviorally check out and wanna go elsewhere! Which Ayton did try to do. But we kept him here by choosing to match his offer! That's on us, not him. All i'm saying is it's important for everyone to remember that these athletes (though incredible) are still everyday humans with lives and emotions outside of basketball. And It'd be hard for anyone to be fully invested in a job wherein your not wanted or valued and yet the bosses won't let you leave the situation either. I understand Ayton's glaring weaknesses with his poor motor and soft play. But that doesn't make him a bad person nor a malcontent or locker room cancer or a drama queen. How many of us here could HONESTLY SAY that we could handle the same situation and pressure and vitriol better and more professionally in our 20's????

I'm not saying at all it isn't time to move on! And I've already stated that Ayton is equally to blame in this scenario for not having the same passion/ fire or intestinal fortitude to develop quicker! But I think it's pretty absurd and disingenuous for some on here to try and heap the blame for all of our troubles on Ayton! This team has many significant issues that must be redressed for us to compete at a higher level. And Ayton is just one of those issues, not the only one!

Has anyone ever taught you how to use proper paragraphs? I don’t have time to read an entire novel. Please do better next time GOK as I’m getting tired of your posts lately and your unrealistic trade ideas.

Spoiler:

Green font trying to take a page out of Doubledees23 book. (How did I do). You know I love you GOK. Nothing but love here.

It's cool brother! Love ya back! You're awesome and the game threads would be lost without you, so I'm very glad your here and for your contributions. We all have our roles to play on here, apparently mine is as a satirically abrasive antagonist...lol. But honestly, I really like everyone on here! Even those I may passionately disagree with occasionally. Doubledees 23 is just another poster looking to try and make a reputation for himself by criticizing others ideas without being able to generate or offer any of his own! More commonly known as trolling. I don't even dislike him though. I rather find his predictable responses somewhat entertaining despite their lack of substance or merit beyond his attempts at self aggrandization. Again, we all play our roles here.

Well said, I couldn’t agree more. We all play our roles here one way or another. But just remember with great power comes great responsibility.