2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[schnakenpopanz]

I remember when people laughed at me when I called ayton, one of the worst contracts out there. but we are getting there. slowly

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[Revived]

I've never seen Mikal pissed in game before.
The only one who got him there was DA.

This just a demonstrate how good of teammate Jock actually is.
Instead of being a drama queen on the bench when every **** eye is on you, he just defend his teammate in public.

Ayton is the only player that Monty Williams has ever had a public altercation with as well. I’m not a Monty fan at all but one thing I give him credit for is being a players coach that all players love and respect.

He’s coached for like 6+ nba teams I think and been coaching for many years and Ayton is the only that he’s had issues with. Even yesterday he called out Ayton’s effort in the interview before the 4th qtr, something coaches usually never do and something Monty doesn’t do for anyone else.

Landale’s trying to be a good teammate and I respect that. He knows he needs to be seen as a good locker room veteran type of guy to earn a contract in the NBA for next season which he does deserve imo.

But Ayton’s actions show more than what Landale can say about him.

There’s a very, very, very old saying that says “If a person shows you who they are, believe them”. This applies for basketball and also for real life.

And yet you have the players themselves speaking up for Ayton! Which players have you heard defending Monty? And as for the SINGULAR ALTERCATION between Williams and Ayton last summer during the Mavs series, Everyone was frustrated and passionate over the monumental collapse in that series. Look here at this video reference:

Watch on YouTube

What is Monty himself saying again in this video man! That there's an issue between him and Ayton or that it's frustration for the "whole group! It's simply not at all uncommon for emotions to run high in the playoffs and in the high pressure situations.
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/deandre-ayton-and-monty-williams-reveal-the-real-reason-behind-intense-bench-altercation

Williams clarified the incident after the game and revealed that it was an issue he had with the whole team and the situation came out of frustration.

“It was the whole team in those moments. It wasn’t just Deandre, it was the whole group out there not executing properly. It was a bit of frustration, but that happens. That was not an isolated one person or one player thing.” (h/t Clutch Points)

So two different sources of information BOTH indicating FROM MONTY WILLIAMS HIMSELF that it was just a "heat of the moment" heightened emotional situation over them historically getting there butts kicked on national TV. People seem to like to make that situation about Ayton alone, but everyone on the team didn't really do jack**** to save the game. Everyone struggled. And Williams himself got outcoached repeatedly. Again it's no surprise at all that emotions would be running high in that situation! But I haven't heard or come across a single instance of ANYONE AT ANYTIME claiming Ayton is a locker room cancer or a malcontent or diva! To the contrary, considering everything he's been put through by the front office, media, etc. If anything, he's been the opposite of a malcontent. And has been nothing short of a consummate professional.

But please, anyone! Feel free to share any legitimate evidence or statements (aside from personal opinions) to the contrary.

GOK, the Ayton hill is not the one to die on. He doesn’t care about basketball and he doesn’t even care about Suns fans otherwise he wouldn’t be going through a dozen mood swings every time he’s on the court. You notice how Devin Booker is a superstar max player yet he’s hustling non stop and diving for loose balls and doing all those little things even while having to carry the entire offense basically. That’s playing for the fans, and that’s playing to win.

As far as the videos you posted, I know you’ve watched basketball for a very long time and you should know this by now. No coach or player is gonna rip their player in an interview unless it’s really that bad. I’ll say what I said before…what Monty does in actual games matter more. What Ayton does in actual games matter more. Not to mention in the interview between quarters of last game, Monty actually called out Ayton’s effort publicly on tv! Of course Monty and Jock are all gonna sing the praises of any player or coach. That’s how it is. What matters is what we SEE on the court. Numerous Suns players have constantly yelled and screamed at him in ways that they don’t do to any of the other players.

[Revived]

I don’t get some people here that think Ayton is getting this unnecessary hate. I wonder if they watch any TV or sports shows or even other games besides Suns games. It’s not just Suns fans, it’s a whole bunch of regular basketball fans, and the entire national media in the United States that’s ripping Ayton to shreds because they see it how trash he is. Richard Jefferson was basically calling Ayton a bum the entire last game. Mitchell Robinson called him a clown after he punked Ayton. Numerous tv personalities and former players have and currently do bash him nonstop. And every bit of it is warranted. Every bit. Ayton will make money in this one season than all posters of the Suns board combined plus our next 10+ generations. Yet he cannot play with effort during the 30-35 mins he plays a child’s game of basketball for.

The people defending him are far worse than the folks that used to defend Eric Bledsoe and Morris twins constantly. And there was no leg to stand on that either yet they still did it. Morris twins went on to become unlikable by every fanbase they’ve played on and Bucks fans turned on Bledsoe very fast after a year or two when Terry Rozier was making him his female companion in the playoffs.

Ayton is a #1 overall pick on a rookie-MAX contract. Why baby him? He should be expected to perform to that of a max contract player. Look at Bam Adebayo if you want to see what that looks like. Ask any Heat fan if they would trade Bam for Ayton and please record the response.

To me, the Ayton fans in some type of way must be what the Manson supporters used to be like back in the day. They know it’s wrong and they know there’s no logic behind supporting the guy but they do it because they’ve done it for so long and feel it’s too late to change sides. Not saying it’s a direct parallel of course but there are at least some similarities in my opinion.

[Frank Lee]

Thanks! looking at many of your post contributions on here, perhaps you might consider extending everyone on here the same courtesy?? By the way, feel free to offer your own impressive trade postulations from your expert opinion. Just try to think before you post too man!

Not a troll , just factual.

Every trade I’d yours makes us worse .

Thanks for your very objective opinions.
Again, please feel free to present your own better suggestions based upon your vast and superior expertise? Maybe you can help me learn to be better at this so you don't find my trade postulations so unpalatable to your high standards. I'll eagerly wait for your better and more logical proposals!

Just may be there are not any ‘good deals’ available. You keep trying to find a needle in the haystack in a field of haystacks. The dude has underperformed regularly. We all know his faults… cant imagine they are a big secret.

Teams are going to want to dump salaries of underperformers and overpaiders back at us. And well need a starting center to boot. Ayton still has value, but taking $.50 in the dollar doesn’t necessarily make us better. I don’t think we’ve hit the addition by subtraction point yet.

Equally difficult is moving CP.

In both cases, doing nothing is likely the most logical path. And thats right up Junkyard’s alley. If problems still linger, readdress it all by the trade deadline.

[garrick]

https://arizonasports.com/story/3522771/suns-nuggets-game-4-preview-phoenixs-path-to-victory-revealed/

Decent article from Kellan Olson if you haven't read it yet, Shamet gets a positive mention in the article.

[sunsbg]

Make an elephant out of a fly. No need to watch TV shows, follow attention seeking nobodies on tweeter to know Ayton plays with no energy and lately with no desire too. Will only turn you into a drama queen.

[lonea]

New York has a lot of role players that I can see getting for Deandre Ayton.

Toppin, Quickly, Grimes, Robinson. I would love these type of players. I also wonder if they’d give up RJ Barrett. I’m not saying all these guys are available but do think a mix of those guys may work for both teams.


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Woahhhh, I'm surprised you mentioned Robinson. Because some people on this particular forum would call him a scrub

[Jdiddy701]

New York has a lot of role players that I can see getting for Deandre Ayton.

Toppin, Quickly, Grimes, Robinson. I would love these type of players. I also wonder if they’d give up RJ Barrett. I’m not saying all these guys are available but do think a mix of those guys may work for both teams.


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Woahhhh, I'm surprised you mentioned Robinson. Because some people on this particular forum would call him a scrub

Mitchell Robinson is great in a simplified role. He ain’t no scrub.


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[Ghost of Kleine]

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I wonder IF he takes his 18 million player option, Seeing as they clearly don't want his salary, if they'd consider swapping him for Shamet's 10 million for the 8 million in savings they could get? Then of course we could still look to move Paul and Ayton in separate deals? **

[Ghost of Kleine]

duplicate post

[Ghost of Kleine]

For the record, I would be opposed to considering Mitchell Robinson for Ayton as I don't consider him a scrub at all in a basic defensive and rebounding role. Although for salary matching requirements, We'd very likely need to take back Fournier's deal to have the money match (per their preference. I think in that situation, I'd rather do an Ayton/ Payne for Mitchell/ D Rose/ Quickley premise to exchange Quickley for Payne if at all possible?

[SunsRback4Good]

New York has a lot of role players that I can see getting for Deandre Ayton.

Toppin, Quickly, Grimes, Robinson. I would love these type of players. I also wonder if they’d give up RJ Barrett. I’m not saying all these guys are available but do think a mix of those guys may work for both teams.


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Woahhhh, I'm surprised you mentioned Robinson. Because some people on this particular forum would call him a scrub

Mitchell Robinson is great in a simplified role. He ain’t no scrub.


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Exactly! You can’t be the son of David Robinson and be a scrub it doesn’t work that way. Obviously his dad was much better but Mitchell is still young so there’s hope he can improve and become an impactful player.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

Ayton is the only player that Monty Williams has ever had a public altercation with as well. I’m not a Monty fan at all but one thing I give him credit for is being a players coach that all players love and respect.

He’s coached for like 6+ nba teams I think and been coaching for many years and Ayton is the only that he’s had issues with. Even yesterday he called out Ayton’s effort in the interview before the 4th qtr, something coaches usually never do and something Monty doesn’t do for anyone else.

Landale’s trying to be a good teammate and I respect that. He knows he needs to be seen as a good locker room veteran type of guy to earn a contract in the NBA for next season which he does deserve imo.

But Ayton’s actions show more than what Landale can say about him.

There’s a very, very, very old saying that says “If a person shows you who they are, believe them”. This applies for basketball and also for real life.

And yet you have the players themselves speaking up for Ayton! Which players have you heard defending Monty? And as for the SINGULAR ALTERCATION between Williams and Ayton last summer during the Mavs series, Everyone was frustrated and passionate over the monumental collapse in that series. Look here at this video reference:

Watch on YouTube

What is Monty himself saying again in this video man! That there's an issue between him and Ayton or that it's frustration for the "whole group! It's simply not at all uncommon for emotions to run high in the playoffs and in the high pressure situations.
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/deandre-ayton-and-monty-williams-reveal-the-real-reason-behind-intense-bench-altercation

Williams clarified the incident after the game and revealed that it was an issue he had with the whole team and the situation came out of frustration.

“It was the whole team in those moments. It wasn’t just Deandre, it was the whole group out there not executing properly. It was a bit of frustration, but that happens. That was not an isolated one person or one player thing.” (h/t Clutch Points)

So two different sources of information BOTH indicating FROM MONTY WILLIAMS HIMSELF that it was just a "heat of the moment" heightened emotional situation over them historically getting there butts kicked on national TV. People seem to like to make that situation about Ayton alone, but everyone on the team didn't really do jack**** to save the game. Everyone struggled. And Williams himself got outcoached repeatedly. Again it's no surprise at all that emotions would be running high in that situation! But I haven't heard or come across a single instance of ANYONE AT ANYTIME claiming Ayton is a locker room cancer or a malcontent or diva! To the contrary, considering everything he's been put through by the front office, media, etc. If anything, he's been the opposite of a malcontent. And has been nothing short of a consummate professional.

But please, anyone! Feel free to share any legitimate evidence or statements (aside from personal opinions) to the contrary.

GOK, the Ayton hill is not the one to die on. He doesn’t care about basketball and he doesn’t even care about Suns fans otherwise he wouldn’t be going through a dozen mood swings every time he’s on the court. You notice how Devin Booker is a superstar max player yet he’s hustling non stop and diving for loose balls and doing all those little things even while having to carry the entire offense basically. That’s playing for the fans, and that’s playing to win.

As far as the videos you posted, I know you’ve watched basketball for a very long time and you should know this by now. No coach or player is gonna rip their player in an interview unless it’s really that bad. I’ll say what I said before…what Monty does in actual games matter more. What Ayton does in actual games matter more. Not to mention in the interview between quarters of last game, Monty actually called out Ayton’s effort publicly on tv! Of course Monty and Jock are all gonna sing the praises of any player or coach. That’s how it is. What matters is what we SEE on the court. Numerous Suns players have constantly yelled and screamed at him in ways that they don’t do to any of the other players.

I have nothing but respect for you man! And your insight is on point and much appreciated. To be clear, I'm not dying on any hill for Ayton, nor am I arguing against his poor motor, lack of physicality (finesse nature) etc. What I'm postulating on is my perspective of the root origin of how this significant apathy and overall disconnect began with respect to acknowledging the accountability associated with the root cause of the deterioration /regression. Again, it's no big secret that I've openly been one of his biggest supporters/ defenders. And I've exercised substantial patience with him in regards to his potential development out of a clear understanding of his immense untapped upside. But even I have come to recognize that it's time to move on for both parties, and have accordingly postulated (for discussion) varying trade possibilities surrounding him whilst accepting and taking into consideration the corresponding value depreciation tethered to his struggles and disinterest/ apathy. But what I will readily argue against is the premise that he's a malcontent, locker room cancer, or a diva at all. And again, there's no evidence ANYWHERE of ANYONE indicating he's a bad teammate or has a bad attitude or his team mates or other players don't like him (aside from maybe Mitchell's competitive taunting statement). But even that isn't correlative to the premise of his having a bad attitude or being a toxic player/ team mate at all. If you actually consider the human nature and emotional variances attached to such high pressure situations, then it's fairly common that emotions can run high in the playoffs. And it's obviously not at all uncommon for emotion based confrontations to happen in these high pressure scenarios either! Players argue with each other and even there coaches at times throughout the season and especially in the postseason. And especially when there are really high stakes and they're getting their azzes handed to them in embarrassing fashion! The NBA is littered with such instances every season! And at any given time a team is severely struggling, Tensions will be high and will argue with each other over missing rotations, botched plays, etc. It happens all the time. But to make this specific situation into more than it is is something I just find to be hyperbolic and disingenuous or a mischaracterization of the overall situation to support a narrative.

As for Booker, Yes, He's been incredible! And I love his passion and unquenchable fire and killer instinct for the game! He's got that superstar Jordan/ Kobe mentality for sure! But in fairness, How many other players in the entire NBA have that same killer mentality or relentless drive?? How many rookie max players currently exhibit those same identical attributes? The point is those types of players are very rare! Hence the rarity of the Supermax designation. Now I've already repeatedly said that Ayton is equally to blame for not using whatever frustrations or slights he might harbor to drive himself to more substantial progress in his game. Perhaps he just clearly doesn't have that in him? And I'm completely fine with us moving on from him for such reasons too! I also won't ever find fault with a coach lambasting their players for effort, even though Williams himself is far from being absent of due scrutiny. But my overall argument here has not at all been against or oppositional to trading him. Nor am I defending his poor performance or overall apathy and passive play. I'm ready to move on entirely to something else and have repeatedly indicated so in my various posts and trade postulations.


What I do/ will argue against is the narrative that he's the sole cause of this team's struggles/ issues, and likely early postseason dismissal. Or that he's a poor teammate, locker room cancer, malcontent, diva, or exhibits toxic behavior and that he's not liked by his teammates or is causing dissention amongst our team. Such a proposition is just an absurd reach, disingenuous, and unnecessary beyond the basic and more LEGITIMATE reasons that make it clear it's time for us to move on! He's not at all a bad kid, bad teammate, toxic player or locker room cancer. And he's not at all the sole reason we're really struggling to compete either! This team has an extensive laundry list of issues causing these struggles. Ayton is one significant issue in that list! And I expect us to move on from him finally as a result. I just find it in poor taste and somewhat petty to vilify and scapegoat one player out of frustration for our current outcome when clear and absolute accountability is due across the board sans Booker of course. I mean what other players or even our coach himself performed well or to expectations in that game 7 or even the series? Everyone was at fault! NO ONE played well! And isn't some big mystery to anyone that tensions were running high and everyone was really frustrated from getting epically embarrassed on national TV. And if the premise of his teammates disliking Ayton so much is at all true, Then they clearly didn't HAVE TO choose to come to his defense. Nor did the coach! True coaches don't speak badly about their players, But he just as easily could said no comment or he doesn't have anything to say on the matter! But no one forced anyone to defend Ayton! They obviously CHOSE TO THEMSELVES!


does Ayton deserve to/ have to to go? absolutely YES!!! I really have no qualms in openly admitting it. But we have a lot of significant concerns to address beyond just Ayton alone! And I for one despite his very disappointing and frustrating faults see no reason to further demonize him on his way out the door! I'm ultimately sad that it has come to this. But recognize/accept the validity of why he's got to go! But also the likely root cause of his current apathy and disinterest. And that's my respective position. I'll be happy for both parties when he's moved finally! I'll continue to fault Saver and our front office for 50% of the current outcome, just as I'll fault the other 50% on Ayton himself. It is what it is plain and simple.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

I wonder IF he takes his 18 million player option, Seeing as they clearly don't want his salary, if they'd consider swapping him for Shamet's 10 million for the 8 million in savings they could get? Then of course we could still look to move Paul and Ayton in separate deals? **

Forgot our current hard cap situation excludes us from taking back unmatched salaries in trades?? Maybe add Payne? for their bench depth behind Van Vleet IF they keep him on his player option, seeing as Flynn just isn't it! As long as they don't use their lotto pick for a guard too? Then you move Ayton for fillers, a decent pick or two, etc. But if at all possible, Trent (even at 18 million) would be a substantial upgrade to Shamet? And for the raptors, Shamet would be a tremendous help to their tank strategies!.....lol. Then IF Charlotte misses out on Wemby, flip Ayton for Rozier/ Bouknight/ Richards (or Williams)/ the 27th pick/ 39th pick.

Booker/Trent/Craig/Durant/ Biyombo.
Rozier/Okogie/Bates Diop/ Warren/ Landale.
Smith Jr/ Mclemore/ Craig/ Kaminsky/ Richards?
Two ways- (3 allowed).
-Coulilaby.
-Beekman.
- Holmes.

27th pick- Bilal Coulilaby (Bridges 2.0)?? Wing defense.
https://www.tankathon.com/players/bilal-coulibaly

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

39th pick- Day'ron Holmes or Kobe Brown?? PF.
https://www.tankathon.com/players/daron-holmes-ii

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

52nd pick- Reese Beekman or Jalen Pickett?? (Backup Guard).
https://www.tankathon.com/players/reece-beekman

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

[Puff]

If always some ifs man.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

And IF our whole team wasn't really mentally soft we would've already won a championship by now. Or if our beloved coach could keep from being repeatedly outcoached, then maybe we wouldn't have gotten historically embarrassed by the Mavs last summer. And IF Jones had actually picked up legitimate quality free agents in free agency or actually performed a legitimate trade to add key depth at the deadline in the past two seasons, then maybe our bench wouldn't struggle so frequently. The point is that If's are just part of the game as the players, coaches, personnel, etc are all still human after all and not absent of emotional responses or other internal and external factors affecting them. Ayton is soft and far too passive and needs to move on not just himself but for our competitive advancement. Entertainment or not, the NBA is a business and the players are employees at a job. Reality is that in life, people just get tired sometimes of their work environment and mentally, emotionally or even behaviorally check out and wanna go elsewhere! Which Ayton did try to do. But we kept him here by choosing to match his offer! That's on us, not him. All i'm saying is it's important for everyone to remember that these athletes (though incredible) are still everyday humans with lives and emotions outside of basketball. And It'd be hard for anyone to be fully invested in a job wherein your not wanted or valued and yet the bosses won't let you leave the situation either. I understand Ayton's glaring weaknesses with his poor motor and soft play. But that doesn't make him a bad person nor a malcontent or locker room cancer or a drama queen. How many of us here could HONESTLY SAY that we could handle the same situation and pressure and vitriol better and more professionally in our 20's????

I'm not saying at all it isn't time to move on! And I've already stated that Ayton is equally to blame in this scenario for not having the same passion/ fire or intestinal fortitude to develop quicker! But I think it's pretty absurd and disingenuous for some on here to try and heap the blame for all of our troubles on Ayton! This team has many significant issues that must be redressed for us to compete at a higher level. And Ayton is just one of those issues, not the only one! :wink:

Ayton has ALWAYS had motor issues all the way since HS. People expecting that to change every year...I don't know what to say anymore. It's in his DNA. It's also partly from overthinking things and freezing or lacking confidence at times which I thought might improve but that has been consistently on and off over the years too. There were times he played more instinctually when we had great chemistry with that surprise team in 21 and in 22. But he still will overthink it and become robotic at times and it kills it and his confidence and it sometimes kind of snowballs.

I didn't want to draft him and complained a ton about him as a rookie too, but finally realized I was just feeding negativity and me complaining wouldn't change anything. I'd like to see him traded for a good package but don't really expect a good package if he is traded. I'm not sure I expect our team to be better next year regardless.

But yeah, people saying "IF" he played like that every night or expect his motor to be consistent and change, that won't happen. I accepted that long ago since he was going to be on the team and hoped for the best. It would be nice if he had a nonstop consistent high motor but it's not who he is. I understand it's frustrating.

To me, it's more disappointing he regressed on offense and defense, because I don't expect his motor issues to change, but I didn't expect regression. I was really encouraged in years 2 and 3 with his defensive improvements and with his offensive improvements in years 3 and 4 so it was nice seeing him come into each season with improvements. But this season we haven't seen that. It has been a rocky season overall for everyone though.

Hopefully he plays better and gets renewed confidence. I do think it's good to get him 2-3 early buckets. I do think it helps him quite a bit to get going..same goes for a lot of players.

Just hope for the best and expect...well, not sure what to expect lol, outside of fans complaining about Monty, Ayton and Shamet.

The thing that really bugs me about Ayton is that he hasn't added anything to his offensive arsenal while standing around too much when opportunities for rebounds exist.

Last year he had that unstoppable jump hook that was almost automatic. What in the hell happened to it. He continues to be a jump shooter in the paint. He never takes it strong to the hole unless there is a clear path. He is one of the main reasons we do not get to the line enough.

I think we all see his talent. I also am tired of hearing that Monty is holding him back. It is all on Ayton to show who he is. Is he great or just an average at best NBA player.

Very frustrating

[lilfishi22]

And IF our whole team wasn't really mentally soft we would've already won a championship by now. Or if our beloved coach could keep from being repeatedly outcoached, then maybe we wouldn't have gotten historically embarrassed by the Mavs last summer. And IF Jones had actually picked up legitimate quality free agents in free agency or actually performed a legitimate trade to add key depth at the deadline in the past two seasons, then maybe our bench wouldn't struggle so frequently. The point is that If's are just part of the game as the players, coaches, personnel, etc are all still human after all and not absent of emotional responses or other internal and external factors affecting them. Ayton is soft and far too passive and needs to move on not just himself but for our competitive advancement. Entertainment or not, the NBA is a business and the players are employees at a job. Reality is that in life, people just get tired sometimes of their work environment and mentally, emotionally or even behaviorally check out and wanna go elsewhere! Which Ayton did try to do. But we kept him here by choosing to match his offer! That's on us, not him. All i'm saying is it's important for everyone to remember that these athletes (though incredible) are still everyday humans with lives and emotions outside of basketball. And It'd be hard for anyone to be fully invested in a job wherein your not wanted or valued and yet the bosses won't let you leave the situation either. I understand Ayton's glaring weaknesses with his poor motor and soft play. But that doesn't make him a bad person nor a malcontent or locker room cancer or a drama queen. How many of us here could HONESTLY SAY that we could handle the same situation and pressure and vitriol better and more professionally in our 20's????

I'm not saying at all it isn't time to move on! And I've already stated that Ayton is equally to blame in this scenario for not having the same passion/ fire or intestinal fortitude to develop quicker! But I think it's pretty absurd and disingenuous for some on here to try and heap the blame for all of our troubles on Ayton! This team has many significant issues that must be redressed for us to compete at a higher level. And Ayton is just one of those issues, not the only one!

Ayton has ALWAYS had motor issues all the way since HS. People expecting that to change every year...I don't know what to say anymore. It's in his DNA. It's also partly from overthinking things and freezing or lacking confidence at times which I thought might improve but that has been consistently on and off over the years too. There were times he played more instinctually when we had great chemistry with that surprise team in 21 and in 22. But he still will overthink it and become robotic at times and it kills it and his confidence and it sometimes kind of snowballs.

I didn't want to draft him and complained a ton about him as a rookie too, but finally realized I was just feeding negativity and me complaining wouldn't change anything. I'd like to see him traded for a good package but don't really expect a good package if he is traded. I'm not sure I expect our team to be better next year regardless.

But yeah, people saying "IF" he played like that every night or expect his motor to be consistent and change, that won't happen. I accepted that long ago since he was going to be on the team and hoped for the best. It would be nice if he had a nonstop consistent high motor but it's not who he is. I understand it's frustrating.

To me, it's more disappointing he regressed on offense and defense, because I don't expect his motor issues to change, but I didn't expect regression. I was really encouraged in years 2 and 3 with his defensive improvements and with his offensive improvements in years 3 and 4 so it was nice seeing him come into each season with improvements. But this season we haven't seen that. It has been a rocky season overall for everyone though.

Hopefully he plays better and gets renewed confidence. I do think it's good to get him 2-3 early buckets. I do think it helps him quite a bit to get going..same goes for a lot of players.

Just hope for the best and expect...well, not sure what to expect lol, outside of fans complaining about Monty, Ayton and Shamet.

The thing that really bugs me about Ayton is that he hasn't added anything to his offensive arsenal while standing around too much when opportunities for rebounds exist.

Last year he had that unstoppable jump hook that was almost automatic. What in the hell happened to it. He continues to be a jump shooter in the paint. He never takes it strong to the hole unless there is a clear path. He is one of the main reasons we do not get to the line enough.

I think we all see his talent. I also am tired of hearing that Monty is holding him back. It is all on Ayton to show who he is. Is he great or just an average at best NBA player.

Very frustrating

I've said it many times, great players will do great things in spite of coaching, roster and defense's.

That's why Book was already doing great things even when we had a rat team, trash coaching and nobody else worth a damn taking defensive attention away from him. DA has had every opportunity to do great things, he's had Book and CP3 take defenders off him, he's had the paint all the himself, 9 times out of 10 he's the biggest and most athletic dude around the rim and he's had the greenlight to shoot.

[Revived]

New York has a lot of role players that I can see getting for Deandre Ayton.

Toppin, Quickly, Grimes, Robinson. I would love these type of players. I also wonder if they’d give up RJ Barrett. I’m not saying all these guys are available but do think a mix of those guys may work for both teams.


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Woahhhh, I'm surprised you mentioned Robinson. Because some people on this particular forum would call him a scrub

Mitchell Robinson is great in a simplified role. He ain’t no scrub.


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Would Knicks make that trade?

[spanishninja]

Woahhhh, I'm surprised you mentioned Robinson. Because some people on this particular forum would call him a scrub

Mitchell Robinson is great in a simplified role. He ain’t no scrub.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly! You can’t be the son of David Robinson and be a scrub it doesn’t work that way. Obviously his dad was much better but Mitchell is still young so there’s hope he can improve and become an impactful player.

uh, what?

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I wonder IF he takes his 18 million player option, Seeing as they clearly don't want his salary, if they'd consider swapping him for Shamet's 10 million for the 8 million in savings they could get? Then of course we could still look to move Paul and Ayton in separate deals? **

I’d definitely do this. Then with Trent Jr and CP3’s $15M expiring deal, we would only have KD/Book as big contracts on the books the next summer if they can trade out Ayton as well.

[SunsRback4Good]

Mitchell Robinson is great in a simplified role. He ain’t no scrub.


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Exactly! You can’t be the son of David Robinson and be a scrub it doesn’t work that way. Obviously his dad was much better but Mitchell is still young so there’s hope he can improve and become an impactful player.

uh, what?

Sarcasm Bud. I knew both were not related just have the same last name.