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Bud Appreciation Thread

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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#261 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Sun May 7, 2023 11:53 pm

Wooderson wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:id agree with this except our core was in their dead ass prime and whatever improvement weve made around the periphery was not worth 16 games and an SRS jump of -.45 to +8.06. If role players were worth that much we should have an entire roster of them and abandon the superstar model.

giannis 23
middleton 26
beldsoe 28
brogdon 25

without bud giannis would not have 2 mvps or a title. thats my opinion. i feel strongly that our window just slammed shut. i would have prefferred Bud coached another 15 years giannis or not.

kidd got fired for this core underacheiving. he was not a great coach but this core is "different"


Giannis was definitely not in his prime at 23. He had been gaining steam every season with a unique trajectory and was in a crap coaching situation. Brogdon was a second year player in 2018, he clearly had room to grow.

Second on the coaching front, there was a lot a low hanging fruit to clean up there too. You're considering the counterfactual of no Bud as if the Bucks continue to have bottom of the bottom tier coaching with late stage Kidd/Prunty etc. Even if the Bucks hired an average coach instead of Bud, they'd have gotten a big boost.

Comparing pre-Bud Bucks to the Bucks with Bud in a vacuum is losing the plot a bit if you're using that situation to assume they'll sink into the gutter again and be a barely above .500 team or something like that. That situation was dire outside of the top few core players, for personnel and coaching.


i predict some 50ish win seasons and middling playoff returns for the next couple. top record in the league and vegas odds on champs stuff is over tho

maybe im wrong of course. this isnt science
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#262 » by blazza18 » Mon May 8, 2023 12:04 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:i predict some 50ish win seasons and middling playoff returns for the next couple. top record in the league and vegas odds on champs stuff is over tho

maybe im wrong of course. this isnt science


A coaching change wasn't stopping this from being the realistic reality moving forward.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#263 » by theFireBlanket » Mon May 8, 2023 3:03 am

Do we have any other rumors of Giannis wanting Bud gone since training camp, aside from the mention on ESPN?

One of their reporters claimed she has friends in the Milwaukee media who knew this was his position all year.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#264 » by BroncoBuck » Mon May 8, 2023 4:26 am

midranger wrote:Coaches Bud has beaten more than lost to in the playoffs
Lionel Hollins
Randy Wittman
Brad Stevens (x 2)
Dwane Casey
Steve Clifford
Steve Nash
Nate McMillan
Monty Williams
Billy Donovan
Cumulative regular season record: 3288-3277 0.501
Cumulative playoff record: 180-237 0.432
Only 2 coaches had winning playoff records (Wittman, Williams)
1 total finals appearance (Monty Williams)
0 total championships

Coaches Bud lost to in the playoffs more than he won
Frank Vogel
David Blatt
Ty Lue
Nick Nurse
Erik Spoelstra (1-2)
Ime Udoka
Cumulative regular season record: 2278-1714 0.571
Cumulative playoff record: 305-219 0.582
All coaches have winning records in playoffs
All coaches have at least 1 finals appearance
4 coaches won championships
13 total finals appearances
5 total championships


4 (Vogel, Blatt, Lue, Spo) of these coaches with winning playoff records have coached LeBron James (the guy who always makes the Finals).

Nurse is 9-8 without Kawhi (hilarious how often we here about KD’s toe on the line when that Raptors team had the biggest fluke championship run of all time)

Stats are helpful, but there are massive qualifiers.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#265 » by midranger » Mon May 8, 2023 5:50 am

Take away Buds record with Horford or Giannis and he’s never actually coached a playoff game.

Massive qualifiers, indeed.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#266 » by BroncoBuck » Mon May 8, 2023 11:16 am

midranger wrote:Take away Buds record with Horford or Giannis and he’s never actually coached a playoff game.

Massive qualifiers, indeed.


Putting Horford on level with LeBron, Giannis and Kawhi is certainly a choice…

Also worth noting that mathematically a team can lose in the conference Finals and the coach would have a losing playoff record that season. For example:
4-3
4-3
1-4

Bud went .500 in the playoffs the year he brought Atlanta to the conference Finals because LeBron swept them. Apparently that sweep invalidates that Atlanta team’s postseason success entirely. Same goes for Brad Stevens IT Celtics team. Throttled by LeBron in the Conference Finals they finished .500 in the playoffs. While the postseason from existence.

Numbers are a tool, but you’re better off just looking at who they lost to and asking yourself if they should have won. David Blatt was a mess as a coach and he has a great playoff record because LeBron James doesn’t need a coach.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#267 » by MVP2110 » Mon May 8, 2023 11:46 am

BroncoBuck wrote:
midranger wrote:Coaches Bud has beaten more than lost to in the playoffs
Lionel Hollins
Randy Wittman
Brad Stevens (x 2)
Dwane Casey
Steve Clifford
Steve Nash
Nate McMillan
Monty Williams
Billy Donovan
Cumulative regular season record: 3288-3277 0.501
Cumulative playoff record: 180-237 0.432
Only 2 coaches had winning playoff records (Wittman, Williams)
1 total finals appearance (Monty Williams)
0 total championships

Coaches Bud lost to in the playoffs more than he won
Frank Vogel
David Blatt
Ty Lue
Nick Nurse
Erik Spoelstra (1-2)
Ime Udoka
Cumulative regular season record: 2278-1714 0.571
Cumulative playoff record: 305-219 0.582
All coaches have winning records in playoffs
All coaches have at least 1 finals appearance
4 coaches won championships
13 total finals appearances
5 total championships


4 (Vogel, Blatt, Lue, Spo) of these coaches with winning playoff records have coached LeBron James (the guy who always makes the Finals).

Nurse is 9-8 without Kawhi (hilarious how often we here about KD’s toe on the line when that Raptors team had the biggest fluke championship run of all time)

Stats are helpful, but there are massive qualifiers.


It is really weird to just throw out coaches playoff success because they had a superstar on their team. Of course you need stars to win, this is a known thing, but there are alot of coaches who have star players and still fail with them so showing who has had success is very much worth noting
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#268 » by jute2003 » Mon May 8, 2023 12:47 pm

theFireBlanket wrote:Do we have any other rumors of Giannis wanting Bud gone since training camp, aside from the mention on ESPN?

One of their reporters claimed she has friends in the Milwaukee media who knew this was his position all year.
That doesn't sound very Giannis like. I would bet that it is bull
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#269 » by paulpressey25 » Mon May 8, 2023 1:54 pm

rilamann wrote:
This is by far the best team we've had in the Giannis era & This Bucks team is the deepest team in the league. I totally didn't read posts like that 2-3 times a day on this board over the past 6 months.

Oh, and the Heat are actually a top 2 team in the east, they were just masquerading as a play-in team for the first 84 games of the season because it was part of a big elaborate plan.


You're locked in some conflicts here as well on the roster. Read plenty of posts the past couple months about how our players are mentally weak frauds, and you don't trust any of them except for Giannis. Well, that played out. Jrue (every aspect) and Middleton (turnovers/defense) played that way in the Miami series, and zero other guys came to pick up the slack, save for Pat sort of playing his normal self.

There is a lot of hyperbole running here both ways.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#270 » by DanoMac » Mon May 8, 2023 7:53 pm

theFireBlanket wrote:Do we have any other rumors of Giannis wanting Bud gone since training camp, aside from the mention on ESPN?


What did I miss here?
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#271 » by rilamann » Mon May 8, 2023 10:12 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
rilamann wrote:
This is by far the best team we've had in the Giannis era & This Bucks team is the deepest team in the league. I totally didn't read posts like that 2-3 times a day on this board over the past 6 months.

Oh, and the Heat are actually a top 2 team in the east, they were just masquerading as a play-in team for the first 84 games of the season because it was part of a big elaborate plan.


You're locked in some conflicts here as well on the roster. Read plenty of posts the past couple months about how our players are mentally weak frauds, and you don't trust any of them except for Giannis. Well, that played out. Jrue (every aspect) and Middleton (turnovers/defense) played that way in the Miami series, and zero other guys came to pick up the slack, save for Pat sort of playing his normal self.

There is a lot of hyperbole running here both ways.


Unfortunately it did play out just as I had warned, but a lot sooner than I had thought. I thought the Bucks were frauds, but I thought they were frauds in terms of having any chance vs Boston. I had the Bucks in the ECF, I just thought they'd get exposed and embarrassed by Boston once they got there.

I never thought by any stretch of the imagination that they would get exposed and embarrassed 4-1 by the #8 seeded Miami Heat without Tyler Herro.

But like I said for the past few months, I didn't think the Bucks were frauds because of a lack of talent. Actually, if I thought the Bucks lacked talent, I never would have called them frauds. I would have just said they're not a very good team. The fact that I thought the Bucks had the talent to win it it all, but wouldn't sniff a trip to the Finals for reasons outside of talent is why I labeled them frauds.

I thought the Bucks were frauds because their collective BBIQ was hilariously bad and we seen the same low IQ stuff all season game after game. They never learned from their mistakes and no corrections were ever made. The dumb stuff we were seeing in October, we were still seeing in April.

The only question is, how much of it is the players or the coach. I would lean extremely heavily towards the coach and now we're going to find out.

Plus, Bud's rotations and not ramping guys up for the playoffs was creating an absolute disaster just waiting to happen come playoff time, I also warned about that in early March. Not integrating Crowder into the rotation before the playoffs was criminal.

How many times did I say over the final 2 months of the regular season. You can't sit guys or play guys low minutes down the stretch of the regular season, then suddenly when the playoffs arrive be like, give us a bunch of super high intensity minutes.

At the end of the day, I think the Bucks aren't necessarily a super high IQ team, but that's all the more reason that this team needs a really high level head coach. Coach Bud wasn't it.

I think with a legitimate top level NBA head coach, this team as currently constructed can still at least compete for a championship. The only guy who makes me nervous about that is Holiday, he needs to be shown the door just as quick as Bud.

Replace Bud with an actual top level NBA head coach and this roster still has as good a chance as anyone to be playing June IMO.

I know I had got huge jolt of excitement and new enthusiasm the moment I saw the news of Bud being shown the door. And judging by the team's reaction or lack of reaction, the players probably did too.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#272 » by Dick Tate » Mon May 8, 2023 10:28 pm

It's nice that you had the opportunity to get all of that into the appreciation thread.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#273 » by Matches Malone » Mon May 8, 2023 10:37 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#274 » by paulpressey25 » Mon May 8, 2023 10:42 pm

Dick Tate wrote:It's nice that you had the opportunity to get all of that into the appreciation thread.


Looking like I might be the only one in Milwaukee who really appreciated what Bud did to change the culture and build a winner. Everyone else in varying modes of anger or depression that we didn't become the 2014-2018 Warriors or 2011-2014 Heat.

I just wish I had social media and these new standards to hold that bum Don Nelson accountable back in the 1980's.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#275 » by LittleRooster » Mon May 8, 2023 10:44 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Dick Tate wrote:It's nice that you had the opportunity to get all of that into the appreciation thread.


Looking like I might be the only one in Milwaukee who really appreciated what Bud did to change the culture and build a winner. Everyone else in varying modes of anger or depression that we didn't become the 2014-2018 Warriors or 2011-2014 Heat.

I just wish I had social media and these new standards to hold that bum Don Nelson accountable back in the 1980's.

Nope. I’m with you. Very fearful for the future.

Look at that roster the year before Bud came and then the roster his 1st year. I think he had a large impact on personal decisions and his loss will be felt on/off the court


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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#276 » by FrieAaron » Mon May 8, 2023 10:49 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Dick Tate wrote:It's nice that you had the opportunity to get all of that into the appreciation thread.


Looking like I might be the only one in Milwaukee who really appreciated what Bud did to change the culture and build a winner. Everyone else in varying modes of anger or depression that we didn't become the 2014-2018 Warriors or 2011-2014 Heat.

I just wish I had social media and these new standards to hold that bum Don Nelson accountable back in the 1980's.


There are dozens of us! Dozens!
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#277 » by sidney lanier » Mon May 8, 2023 10:51 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Read on Twitter

A class act to the end.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#278 » by Ryan5UW » Mon May 8, 2023 11:17 pm

sidney lanier wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
Read on Twitter

A class act to the end.


Yeah, very classy. This is the first time one of my teams has fired a coach and I’ve been sad about it. Always gonna have a soft spot for Bud.
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#279 » by MVP2110 » Mon May 8, 2023 11:18 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Dick Tate wrote:It's nice that you had the opportunity to get all of that into the appreciation thread.


Looking like I might be the only one in Milwaukee who really appreciated what Bud did to change the culture and build a winner. Everyone else in varying modes of anger or depression that we didn't become the 2014-2018 Warriors or 2011-2014 Heat.

I just wish I had social media and these new standards to hold that bum Don Nelson accountable back in the 1980's.


Add another one who agrees with you. Coach Bud had his flaws but was easily a top 5-10 coach in the NBA and at best we're going to replace him with just as good of a coach but with different flaws, and there is a very real chance we replace him with a significantly worse coach
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Re: Bud Appreciation Thread 

Post#280 » by chonestown » Mon May 8, 2023 11:39 pm

Dick Tate wrote:It's nice that you had the opportunity to get all of that into the appreciation thread.

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